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SUV vs Minivans

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They don't seem to jump out in front of you during the daytime. I slow down when I see them along side the road. I cannot tell you how many I saw beside the road with a flock of buzzards picking on them, down in Texas. They have more wild game than anywhere I have been, including 36 years working in Alaska.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    The only ones you see at night are the ones that do jump. I understand Pennsylvania is another extreme state with regard to deer and driving.

    We'll spot moose occasionally up here in Idaho but they seem to be a little smarter about crossing roads with traffic.

    tidester, host
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Good reasons to be in an SUV or PU truck:

    Each year, there are more than 1.5 million crashes involving deer, causing an estimated $1.1 billion in vehicle damages, 150 lives lost, and more than 10,000 injuries. And, most people involved in auto insurance will say, the figures are much higher. While the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) keeps annual figures for car-deer accidents, the figures lack a measure of exactness and certainty because there's currently no standardization in the reporting of deer-related accidents throughout the country, and because what constitutes a "reportable accident" varies so much between states.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Good reasons to be in an SUV or PU truck:

    Absolutely, you've convinced me. We have tons of deer in upstate NY...hit one with the Outback, hit one with the Civic wagon...amazingly, we survived...actually, we were unhurt. But those were anomolies, clearly, most Americans would be dead now if they didn't drive an SUV or PU.

    I think, instead of handing out $100 to every American, the gummint should hand out an SUV to everyone. Let's get rid of that oil ASAP and get the price up as high as possible....and Americans will finally be safe!

    Guzzliness is on the march!

    Hmmmm wonder what the approval rating of SUVs is these days.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Sarcasm aside, the fact that there are X number of crashes involving deer tells us nothing about survivability relative to vehicle type. We would have to have the % of fatalities, injuries and damage for each, per accident to know...and we don't.

    There are many factors to consider, not the least of which is how many more deaths there are in vehicles that swerve to avoid the deer (which most drivers do in such cases) and how many resulting rollovers there are (SUVs and PUs would do a lot more rolling, resulting in many fatalities).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sarcasm aside

    That's not like you. I agree that the whole story is not available for us to dissect. Most of the deer I saw along the road in TX were small and would probably not go through the windshield of a smaller car. A large buck, or a bull elk or moose, that's a different story. Most of the new minivans do have a little more vehicle out front to absorb the impact of an animal. I just like big heavy bumpers. I am also interested in saving fossil fuel. Too bad no one in power is serious about it. I did put 8k miles on my Passat TDI and only 2k on my PU truck over the last 12 months.

    PS
    Swerving to miss an animal is bad. If you have an accident it becomes a collision instead of an act of god. Comprehensive will cover a deer damaged car. Swerving into a head-on collision is REAL bad. So when you gonna get that new Escalade? :shades:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    ROFLMAO! OK, I'm aside!
    Don't forget to recommend the bull(deer) bar for the front. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    That's not like you.

    Not sure what you mean...I'm not usually aside myself?

    A large buck, or a bull elk or moose, that's a different story.

    We have even less data on those and they are fairly rare. Basing a vehicle decision on such an occurence would be inane. Then again, so is being in denial about oil. Oh well.

    Too bad no one in power is serious about it.

    Stop the presses, we agree on something!

    Swerving to miss an animal is bad.

    Of course...but the fact is that most folks do exactly that when they see a deer in the way. With the expected results.

    So when you gonna get that new Escalade?

    I don't use escaladers, I take the stairs.

    And my RSX gets 33 mpg on the hwy.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    ROFLMAO!

    Get up off the floor, you're getting deer stuff all over your pants.

    Don't forget to recommend the bull(deer) bar for the front.

    Not enough protection. Everyone should mount a snowplow in front...kind of a deer-catcher. Should get our national mpg down to 10 or so. Then Iran, Sudan and the rest can REALLY do whatever they want.

    Freedom is on the march! Freedom to be a totalitarian state, that is.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    We have even less data on those and they are fairly rare.

    I am most familiar with Anchorage Alaska. That is the only paper I read. The moose population has exploded the last 10 years within the city. I came upon a moose hit where two teenagers were killed. It was one of those real small Subaru PUs. Just sticks in my mind. Did not think about it living in San Diego. Driving through TX with all the deer and antelope made me think about it. I just would not drive a small car in deer country at night. Just so some one in China or India can use a little more oil. Makes no sense to me.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Heh, I drove a Toyota Tercel in Anchorage for 17 years and Bugs before that. Texas probably would have been more dangerous with all those armadillos. The trick driving out of Anchorage in the cold dark winter was to watch for breath condensation along the shoulder when the moose exhaled.

    We can argue about SUVs and minivans all day long, but the crossovers are passing all of us by. (USA Today)

    How about them Aces, Gary?

    Steve, Host
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    no deer stuff here. i've managed to avoid all of them, so far. i am a very good driver. ;)
    my mom's malibu gets 33 mpg on the highway. way cheaper than an rsx.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How about them Aces, Gary?

    Not a big hockey fan. Went to one game in 36 years in AK. Did they win the Kelly Cup?

    I just cannot get interested in the CUVs. None out there I would want. I guess I am just too much of a PU kind of guy.

    You know I went to Alaska in a 1967 Bug. Bought a Datsun PU because the gas heater was worthless in the Beetle. In the 1970s and 80s I don't remember that many moose in town. Now they seem to be everywhere. Less hunting pressure I guess. Never had a close call.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    does that mean cuv's sell more than minivans too?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yep, Aces heading to the nationals next week.

    I first went north in a '73 Bug; next time was in a Datsun wagon. Then got another bug (see a pic on my imagealbum). My wife made me get rid of us because it wouldn't get the frost off the windows. Sounds all too familiar, lol.

    I don't know about moose numbers; remember they used to hunt them at Blueberry Lake where Sears Mall is now. But no one with a starter castle on the hillside wants a gut pile in their driveway. :shades:

    Check out a Freestyle next time you're bored.

    Steve, Host
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Who needs an SUV or minivan when you can load a Bug down like that. I cannot top that one for sure. My VW brakes did go out near Whitehorse in April of 1970 on my initial trip to AK. I could not get parts so I drove the rest of the way to Anchorage, (800 miles) using the hand brake. Got use to it after couple hundred miles. The Bug was great in snow, better than any FWD vehicle I have ever owned.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    cannot top that one

    Yeah, topped me too (that wasn't my Bug). My SuperBeetle was better on uphill black ice than any of my friends' Subarus. But my minivans did ok most of the time.

    The great thing about Whitehorse back then was the ten miles of smooth pavement before you got back on the gravel Alcan.

    Steve, Host
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    I am most familiar with Anchorage Alaska. That is the only paper I read. The moose population has exploded the last 10 years within the city.

    It has, yes. There are from 1-3 fatalities annually in Alaska from moose/vehicle collisions. Zero would be better, but having everyone drive SUVs or PUs to "solve" this problem sounds insane.

    I just would not drive a small car in deer country at night.

    Folks should consider their vehicular requirements, not the worst case scenario. Which, in any case, would not lead one (rationally) to choose an SUV or PU on the basis of the possibility of deer collisions.

    Just so some one in China or India can use a little more oil. Makes no sense to me.

    It's doubtful that any vehicular choice here will impact anyone's oil use there. Any more than oil use here.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It's doubtful that any vehicular choice here will impact anyone's oil use there. Any more than oil use here

    I guess I am ill informed then. I was under the impression that the current price of oil was in part due to the increased demand in China and to a lessor amount India. That has pushed many short sighted buyers into econo cars they would rather not drive.

    You and I will probably never agree on this subject. We went round and round for 60k plus posts a while back. I just today sold the only car I have bought in several years. I don't like small cars for several reasons. Even though the Passat TDI was a very good car. Much better than your run of the mill CamCord. At least after owning it for a year I made a couple grand. Not many can say that. if I buy a new vehicle it will be some type of full sized SUV with a diesel engine. I am thinking the ML320 CDI when it becomes available.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    I was under the impression that the current price of oil was in part due to the increased demand in China and to a lessor amount India.

    Thta's absolutely correct. But the US demand dwarfs the demand from those 2 countries. We use over 25% of the world's oil. Our demand is what affects price the most. And in China, they are actually imposing stricter "cafe" laws than we are.

    That has pushed many short sighted buyers into econo cars they would rather not drive.


    Lol, curious statement. They are only short sighted if gas prices are going to come down. They won't and so they're not. And they would rather drive a car that uses less gas, that's why they are buying them now, just like post-'73.

    We went round and round for 60k plus posts a while back.

    We had a lot of company :)

    You and I will probably never agree on this subject.

    Don't be so short sighted :=)

    Oh, and I don't like SUVs much, except for towing applications. But MVs are far better for families that need something bigger than a car. And crossovers are usually just MVs that look a bit like SUVs.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I was under the impression that the current price of oil was in part due to the increased demand in China and to a lessor amount India.

    The latest figures I saw had the price per gallon of gasoline in Shanghai at about $1.50 and, even with subsidies from Beijing, the effect of China on the price of gasoline is likely highly overrated. It's running at about $1/Liter in New Delhi so India is a closer to "free market" prices. However, there haven't been any abrupt changes in trend in India's usage of fossil fuels recently.

    IMHO, international tensions (aka Iran v the West) and lack of refining capacity in the U.S. (and elsewhere) are the major contributors to the high prices.

    tidester, host
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    actually, most people only care about how much fuel costs them. gas mileage just happens to be related to that.
    how many prius would be sold if they got only slightly better epa mileage than a corolla, but were much better on emissions? people don't really care about emissions, either.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't be so short sighted :=)

    If my circumstances were such that I had to commute to a job 20+ miles from home, I would probably be looking at a smaller car like the Jetta TDI. I am basically very cheap and don't like the high price of fuel. It is for me a compromise, being comfortable or saving gas. So far I have not found the perfect vehicle for me. I am fortunate in the fact that I do not have to drive very far to do all my shopping. Less than 15k miles total on 5 vehicles last year. 8100 on the Passat TDI & 3900 on the MB Cruiser RV. Both get great mileage.
  • fred222fred222 Member Posts: 200
    Running out of gas halfway into a 400-mile trip in a Suburban? Please tell me that that's because it had a small tank...otherwise it's almost unfathomable to think that anyone could only get 200 miles out of a full 30+ gallon tank of gas unless one is holding back something. Or is it that you're clearly exaggerating just to accentuate the great fuel economy that can be had out of a minivan such as the Odyssey?
    READ THE POST.
    I did not mention tank size. I simply said that if I had 15 gallons of gas, as perhaps might happen if there was rationing. I can get almost twice as far in my Odyssey as in a Suburban ON THE SAME AMOUNT OF GAS.
    My Suburban had a 42 gallon tank and had a greater range than the Odyssey, but only slightly.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    most people only care about how much fuel costs them.

    ...people don't really care about emissions, either.


    And most people don't like SUVs, too, since most folks buy something else :)

    Actually, many folks DO care about the environment and about the looming energy crisis. Good citizenship is not universal, but that doesn't make the alternative any less repugnant.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    IMHO, international tensions (aka Iran v the West) and lack of refining capacity in the U.S. (and elsewhere) are the major contributors to the high prices.

    When did you get an attack of humble? :) j/k!

    This is a lot like the global warming argument...one can claim anything if one chooses the right timeframe :)

    I agree that the very recent run-up (the last month or so) is probably caused as you say. But the long steady climb we've seen over the last year or so is probably mostly due to increased demand. Ours is certainly not going down (and has the largest impact) but the increases in China, India and the rest of the world are really putting pressure on supply (production), which, as you know, has probably peaked.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    When did you get an attack of humble?

    Humble? I was referring to my Healthy opinion! ;)

    It is almost axiomatic that price is related to demand but supply is also in the equation. The fact that the U.S. hasn't built a new refinery in over 30 years certainly affects the price at the pump so it is also a relevant long term factor. But I think we'll see a substantial downturn if we can make the transition to ethanol over the next 10-15 years.

    And you should know better than to try to bait me into a global warming debate! :P

    tidester, host
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Americans have an insatiable thirst for gasoline, and with sport-utility vehicles (SUVs) continually growing in popularity we are only getting thirstier. Just look at the roads and highways and you'll see that a severe gas shortage would practically cripple the country. Americans drive more than 2.5 trillion miles per year in automobiles, light trucks and SUVs, according to a MEMA report. "

    How Oil Prices Are Set (Strategies for Smart Car Buyers)

    More in keeping with the topic perhaps:

    Survey Reveals What Moms Want in a Car (hint - it isn't minivans).

    Steve, Host
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i doubt if 1 person in a thousand has any idea how they vehicle rates as far as emissions goes. most only know they get better mileage on the highway than in the city.
    a lot take the epa mileage numbers on the sticker as gospel. if their car doesn't get the numbers, they assume another vehicle with lower numbers will be no different.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nitromaxnitromax Member Posts: 640
    I am most familiar with Anchorage Alaska. That is the only paper I read. The moose population has exploded the last 10 years within the city. I came upon a moose hit where two teenagers were killed. It was one of those real small Subaru PUs.

    I'm willing to bet that more teenagers are killed by telephone poles than large animals.
    Should we all drive SUVs and pick ups because of the rampant telephone population or should we look into other factors...like maybe poor driving skills?

    oh, BTW.....HELLOOOOOO EVERYBODY!!

    :-)
  • highenderhighender Member Posts: 1,358
    is this a reunion ....?

    or a prequel to the storm..? ;)

    hello all too....
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think we are all mellowing with age. Or is that marsh-mellowing. And yes we all need to get a PU or SUV with a BIG BUMPER for large animals or small cars that get in the way of our travels. :shades:

    Actually I may be the first to get one of these. Whatcha think sailor? All electric, cool eh?

    image
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    Someone please kill this beast before it reaches the 60,000 post marker. Please. :-)
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Omigosh!! It's deja vu ... all over again! ;)

    tidester, host
  • nitromaxnitromax Member Posts: 640
    Omigosh!! It's deja vu ... all over again! ;)

    tidester, host
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Good grief, they're coming out of the woodwork...next thing you know, they'll be a heatwave(3) in here.

    Nice to touch base with some of the old guard.

    Someone please kill this beast before it reaches the 60,000 post marker.

    There he goes with the fork again :=) Don't worry, Steve will keep us from getting too interesting, that should keep us from even threatening 1500 :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i used to have an suv, but since we have a new driver in the family, i rarely see it. it does have to run out of fuel eventually.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nitromaxnitromax Member Posts: 640
    used to have an suv, but since we have a new driver in the family, i rarely see it. it does have to run out of fuel eventually.

    You're letting a new, inexperienced driver use the explorer? tsk,tsk,tsk
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Don't worry, Steve will keep us from getting too interesting

    Yep, it's time to get back to comparing MVs and SUVs. I'm not even going to comment on this recent dreadful story. (KTVA)

    Steve, Host
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Troopers say the front of the 2005, Ford Focus hit the moose and the animal passed through the car, ripping the roof off.

    What can I say? Small cars and big animals do not mix. Same for small cars and big SUVs and PU Trucks. Minivans and SUVs are safer than small cars. Is it worth the risk to save a few bucks on gas? Everyone has to decide that for themselves. Having hit a deer, I am thankful I was in a 3/4 ton 4X4 PU truck and not a little Camry.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Small cars and big animals do not mix.

    And big cars and other big cars don't mix, either (collisions between them are worse than collisions between small cars). And big cars and intelligent energy policy don't mix, either.

    Fact is that no single factor is likely to produce an intelligent vehicle choice.

    Minivans and SUVs are safer than small cars.

    Overall, sure (though MVs are far safer than SUVs)...but that doesn't mean everyone should drive a large vehicle when they don't need one.

    Having hit a deer, I am thankful I was in a 3/4 ton 4X4 PU truck and not a little Camry.

    And if you hit a Camry, I'm sure those in the Camry would be thankful you had a 3/4 ton PU to protect you from deer...after they were dead.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    a much better choice for a new driver than my mustang gt or some overpowered fwd car.
    it actually handles and stops well(good tires,new brakes), good view of the road, good wipers(important lately).
    tall suv tires avoid curb damage to the alloys, too.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fact is that no single factor is likely to produce an intelligent vehicle choice.

    That is a fact and a point we can agree upon.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    but that doesn't mean everyone should drive a large vehilce when they don't need one.

    Who are you to decide what other people "should" be driving? I try not to concern myself with what other drivers "need" and don't "need" in a buying decision. It's none of my business. Whether someone chooses to buy an SUV based on it's cuteness factor, saftey...whatever..it is the buyers free choice. My only concern is that the consumer drive whatever they purchase safely and responsibly.

    And if you hit a Camry

    If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts...we'd all have a Merry Christmas. :surprise:

    I suppose "if" gagrice was driving the Camry and hit a 3/4 ton 4x4 PU truck...the people in the 4x4 would be "thankful" he was driving a puny Camry.

    SUV's, pick-ups trucks, sports cars... sailboats, are any of these really "needed"? People buy what they like and will enjoy, and I see nothing wrong with that. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Who are you to decide what other people "should" be driving?

    I believe the statement in question was an expression of opinion and not a decision.

    tidester, host
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    Who are you to decide what other people "should" be driving? I try not to concern myself with what other drivers "need" and don't "need" in a buying decision. It's none of my business. Whether someone chooses to buy an SUV based on it's cuteness factor, saftey...whatever..it is the buyers free choice.

    Motor vehicles and their drivers can be very dangerous. Enough so that they are the #1 cause of death for age groups up to 35 and a leading cause after that. If there was a disease claiming that many lives, it would be a national crisis with many billions of dollars being spent annually and a public outrage about what is being done to prevent more fatalities.

    Unlike firearms, the purchase and use of motor vehicles are not rights guaranteed in the Constitution. It's a privilege granted by states. As such, I believe state and local governments have every right to limit and regulate the sale and use of motor vehicles. In the same regard, you and I all have the right to petition our governments to take action if some type of vehicle or aspect of vehicle use is a particular danger to public safety or the environment.

    It is a free country, but we do have a system of laws and enforcement to protect the rights and lives of others. What types of laws and enforcement are needed are usually up for public debate, which seems to be an appropriate topic for this forum;-)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    you are ok with somone's decision to not drive the 'safest' vehicle though?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    To me the statement in question was presented to be a matter of fact...and not opinion. Lobby and petition all you want for safer SUV's and driver safety. I'm all for it.

    Just don't tell me that I don't "need" to be driving a particular vehicle... unless it is "needed". I just find statements to that effect to be presumptuous and rude.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,296
    Man...a lot of you guys make SUV's out to be like the Black Plague or something. But, yes, public concerns has made the SUV safer...and rightfully so. Lowering of front bumpers and vehicle stability control has greatly improved their saftey.

    But, it's not like SUV's are exploding or becoming a "Christine" ala Stephen King. The vehicles are safe..the drivers in many cases are not. That goes for all vehicle makes and models, the large and the small.

    My beef is with people who say you shouldn't be driving SUV's or pick-up trucks because of....(fill in the blank).
    Perhaps it is with the way they are expressing this view, which is in an absolute, and not opinionated, manner.
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    jipster, too bad you didn't join up a couple years earlier. :shades:
    sorry, still ROFL. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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