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We'll spot moose occasionally up here in Idaho but they seem to be a little smarter about crossing roads with traffic.
tidester, host
Each year, there are more than 1.5 million crashes involving deer, causing an estimated $1.1 billion in vehicle damages, 150 lives lost, and more than 10,000 injuries. And, most people involved in auto insurance will say, the figures are much higher. While the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) keeps annual figures for car-deer accidents, the figures lack a measure of exactness and certainty because there's currently no standardization in the reporting of deer-related accidents throughout the country, and because what constitutes a "reportable accident" varies so much between states.
Absolutely, you've convinced me. We have tons of deer in upstate NY...hit one with the Outback, hit one with the Civic wagon...amazingly, we survived...actually, we were unhurt. But those were anomolies, clearly, most Americans would be dead now if they didn't drive an SUV or PU.
I think, instead of handing out $100 to every American, the gummint should hand out an SUV to everyone. Let's get rid of that oil ASAP and get the price up as high as possible....and Americans will finally be safe!
Guzzliness is on the march!
Hmmmm wonder what the approval rating of SUVs is these days.
There are many factors to consider, not the least of which is how many more deaths there are in vehicles that swerve to avoid the deer (which most drivers do in such cases) and how many resulting rollovers there are (SUVs and PUs would do a lot more rolling, resulting in many fatalities).
That's not like you. I agree that the whole story is not available for us to dissect. Most of the deer I saw along the road in TX were small and would probably not go through the windshield of a smaller car. A large buck, or a bull elk or moose, that's a different story. Most of the new minivans do have a little more vehicle out front to absorb the impact of an animal. I just like big heavy bumpers. I am also interested in saving fossil fuel. Too bad no one in power is serious about it. I did put 8k miles on my Passat TDI and only 2k on my PU truck over the last 12 months.
PS
Swerving to miss an animal is bad. If you have an accident it becomes a collision instead of an act of god. Comprehensive will cover a deer damaged car. Swerving into a head-on collision is REAL bad. So when you gonna get that new Escalade? :shades:
Don't forget to recommend the bull(deer) bar for the front.
Not sure what you mean...I'm not usually aside myself?
A large buck, or a bull elk or moose, that's a different story.
We have even less data on those and they are fairly rare. Basing a vehicle decision on such an occurence would be inane. Then again, so is being in denial about oil. Oh well.
Too bad no one in power is serious about it.
Stop the presses, we agree on something!
Swerving to miss an animal is bad.
Of course...but the fact is that most folks do exactly that when they see a deer in the way. With the expected results.
So when you gonna get that new Escalade?
I don't use escaladers, I take the stairs.
And my RSX gets 33 mpg on the hwy.
Get up off the floor, you're getting deer stuff all over your pants.
Don't forget to recommend the bull(deer) bar for the front.
Not enough protection. Everyone should mount a snowplow in front...kind of a deer-catcher. Should get our national mpg down to 10 or so. Then Iran, Sudan and the rest can REALLY do whatever they want.
Freedom is on the march! Freedom to be a totalitarian state, that is.
I am most familiar with Anchorage Alaska. That is the only paper I read. The moose population has exploded the last 10 years within the city. I came upon a moose hit where two teenagers were killed. It was one of those real small Subaru PUs. Just sticks in my mind. Did not think about it living in San Diego. Driving through TX with all the deer and antelope made me think about it. I just would not drive a small car in deer country at night. Just so some one in China or India can use a little more oil. Makes no sense to me.
We can argue about SUVs and minivans all day long, but the crossovers are passing all of us by. (USA Today)
How about them Aces, Gary?
Steve, Host
my mom's malibu gets 33 mpg on the highway. way cheaper than an rsx.
Not a big hockey fan. Went to one game in 36 years in AK. Did they win the Kelly Cup?
I just cannot get interested in the CUVs. None out there I would want. I guess I am just too much of a PU kind of guy.
You know I went to Alaska in a 1967 Bug. Bought a Datsun PU because the gas heater was worthless in the Beetle. In the 1970s and 80s I don't remember that many moose in town. Now they seem to be everywhere. Less hunting pressure I guess. Never had a close call.
I first went north in a '73 Bug; next time was in a Datsun wagon. Then got another bug (see a pic on my
I don't know about moose numbers; remember they used to hunt them at Blueberry Lake where Sears Mall is now. But no one with a starter castle on the hillside wants a gut pile in their driveway. :shades:
Check out a Freestyle next time you're bored.
Steve, Host
Yeah, topped me too (that wasn't my Bug). My SuperBeetle was better on uphill black ice than any of my friends' Subarus. But my minivans did ok most of the time.
The great thing about Whitehorse back then was the ten miles of smooth pavement before you got back on the gravel Alcan.
Steve, Host
It has, yes. There are from 1-3 fatalities annually in Alaska from moose/vehicle collisions. Zero would be better, but having everyone drive SUVs or PUs to "solve" this problem sounds insane.
I just would not drive a small car in deer country at night.
Folks should consider their vehicular requirements, not the worst case scenario. Which, in any case, would not lead one (rationally) to choose an SUV or PU on the basis of the possibility of deer collisions.
Just so some one in China or India can use a little more oil. Makes no sense to me.
It's doubtful that any vehicular choice here will impact anyone's oil use there. Any more than oil use here.
I guess I am ill informed then. I was under the impression that the current price of oil was in part due to the increased demand in China and to a lessor amount India. That has pushed many short sighted buyers into econo cars they would rather not drive.
You and I will probably never agree on this subject. We went round and round for 60k plus posts a while back. I just today sold the only car I have bought in several years. I don't like small cars for several reasons. Even though the Passat TDI was a very good car. Much better than your run of the mill CamCord. At least after owning it for a year I made a couple grand. Not many can say that. if I buy a new vehicle it will be some type of full sized SUV with a diesel engine. I am thinking the ML320 CDI when it becomes available.
Thta's absolutely correct. But the US demand dwarfs the demand from those 2 countries. We use over 25% of the world's oil. Our demand is what affects price the most. And in China, they are actually imposing stricter "cafe" laws than we are.
That has pushed many short sighted buyers into econo cars they would rather not drive.
Lol, curious statement. They are only short sighted if gas prices are going to come down. They won't and so they're not. And they would rather drive a car that uses less gas, that's why they are buying them now, just like post-'73.
We went round and round for 60k plus posts a while back.
We had a lot of company
You and I will probably never agree on this subject.
Don't be so short sighted :=)
Oh, and I don't like SUVs much, except for towing applications. But MVs are far better for families that need something bigger than a car. And crossovers are usually just MVs that look a bit like SUVs.
The latest figures I saw had the price per gallon of gasoline in Shanghai at about $1.50 and, even with subsidies from Beijing, the effect of China on the price of gasoline is likely highly overrated. It's running at about $1/Liter in New Delhi so India is a closer to "free market" prices. However, there haven't been any abrupt changes in trend in India's usage of fossil fuels recently.
IMHO, international tensions (aka Iran v the West) and lack of refining capacity in the U.S. (and elsewhere) are the major contributors to the high prices.
tidester, host
how many prius would be sold if they got only slightly better epa mileage than a corolla, but were much better on emissions? people don't really care about emissions, either.
If my circumstances were such that I had to commute to a job 20+ miles from home, I would probably be looking at a smaller car like the Jetta TDI. I am basically very cheap and don't like the high price of fuel. It is for me a compromise, being comfortable or saving gas. So far I have not found the perfect vehicle for me. I am fortunate in the fact that I do not have to drive very far to do all my shopping. Less than 15k miles total on 5 vehicles last year. 8100 on the Passat TDI & 3900 on the MB Cruiser RV. Both get great mileage.
READ THE POST.
I did not mention tank size. I simply said that if I had 15 gallons of gas, as perhaps might happen if there was rationing. I can get almost twice as far in my Odyssey as in a Suburban ON THE SAME AMOUNT OF GAS.
My Suburban had a 42 gallon tank and had a greater range than the Odyssey, but only slightly.
...people don't really care about emissions, either.
And most people don't like SUVs, too, since most folks buy something else
Actually, many folks DO care about the environment and about the looming energy crisis. Good citizenship is not universal, but that doesn't make the alternative any less repugnant.
When did you get an attack of humble?
This is a lot like the global warming argument...one can claim anything if one chooses the right timeframe
I agree that the very recent run-up (the last month or so) is probably caused as you say. But the long steady climb we've seen over the last year or so is probably mostly due to increased demand. Ours is certainly not going down (and has the largest impact) but the increases in China, India and the rest of the world are really putting pressure on supply (production), which, as you know, has probably peaked.
Humble? I was referring to my Healthy opinion!
It is almost axiomatic that price is related to demand but supply is also in the equation. The fact that the U.S. hasn't built a new refinery in over 30 years certainly affects the price at the pump so it is also a relevant long term factor. But I think we'll see a substantial downturn if we can make the transition to ethanol over the next 10-15 years.
And you should know better than to try to bait me into a global warming debate! :P
tidester, host
How Oil Prices Are Set (Strategies for Smart Car Buyers)
More in keeping with the topic perhaps:
Survey Reveals What Moms Want in a Car (hint - it isn't minivans).
Steve, Host
a lot take the epa mileage numbers on the sticker as gospel. if their car doesn't get the numbers, they assume another vehicle with lower numbers will be no different.
I'm willing to bet that more teenagers are killed by telephone poles than large animals.
Should we all drive SUVs and pick ups because of the rampant telephone population or should we look into other factors...like maybe poor driving skills?
oh, BTW.....HELLOOOOOO EVERYBODY!!
:-)
or a prequel to the storm..?
hello all too....
Actually I may be the first to get one of these. Whatcha think sailor? All electric, cool eh?
tidester, host
tidester, host
Nice to touch base with some of the old guard.
Someone please kill this beast before it reaches the 60,000 post marker.
There he goes with the fork again :=) Don't worry, Steve will keep us from getting too interesting, that should keep us from even threatening 1500
You're letting a new, inexperienced driver use the explorer? tsk,tsk,tsk
Yep, it's time to get back to comparing MVs and SUVs. I'm not even going to comment on this recent dreadful story. (KTVA)
Steve, Host
What can I say? Small cars and big animals do not mix. Same for small cars and big SUVs and PU Trucks. Minivans and SUVs are safer than small cars. Is it worth the risk to save a few bucks on gas? Everyone has to decide that for themselves. Having hit a deer, I am thankful I was in a 3/4 ton 4X4 PU truck and not a little Camry.
And big cars and other big cars don't mix, either (collisions between them are worse than collisions between small cars). And big cars and intelligent energy policy don't mix, either.
Fact is that no single factor is likely to produce an intelligent vehicle choice.
Minivans and SUVs are safer than small cars.
Overall, sure (though MVs are far safer than SUVs)...but that doesn't mean everyone should drive a large vehicle when they don't need one.
Having hit a deer, I am thankful I was in a 3/4 ton 4X4 PU truck and not a little Camry.
And if you hit a Camry, I'm sure those in the Camry would be thankful you had a 3/4 ton PU to protect you from deer...after they were dead.
it actually handles and stops well(good tires,new brakes), good view of the road, good wipers(important lately).
tall suv tires avoid curb damage to the alloys, too.
That is a fact and a point we can agree upon.
Who are you to decide what other people "should" be driving? I try not to concern myself with what other drivers "need" and don't "need" in a buying decision. It's none of my business. Whether someone chooses to buy an SUV based on it's cuteness factor, saftey...whatever..it is the buyers free choice. My only concern is that the consumer drive whatever they purchase safely and responsibly.
And if you hit a Camry
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts...we'd all have a Merry Christmas. :surprise:
I suppose "if" gagrice was driving the Camry and hit a 3/4 ton 4x4 PU truck...the people in the 4x4 would be "thankful" he was driving a puny Camry.
SUV's, pick-ups trucks, sports cars... sailboats, are any of these really "needed"? People buy what they like and will enjoy, and I see nothing wrong with that.
I believe the statement in question was an expression of opinion and not a decision.
tidester, host
Motor vehicles and their drivers can be very dangerous. Enough so that they are the #1 cause of death for age groups up to 35 and a leading cause after that. If there was a disease claiming that many lives, it would be a national crisis with many billions of dollars being spent annually and a public outrage about what is being done to prevent more fatalities.
Unlike firearms, the purchase and use of motor vehicles are not rights guaranteed in the Constitution. It's a privilege granted by states. As such, I believe state and local governments have every right to limit and regulate the sale and use of motor vehicles. In the same regard, you and I all have the right to petition our governments to take action if some type of vehicle or aspect of vehicle use is a particular danger to public safety or the environment.
It is a free country, but we do have a system of laws and enforcement to protect the rights and lives of others. What types of laws and enforcement are needed are usually up for public debate, which seems to be an appropriate topic for this forum;-)
Just don't tell me that I don't "need" to be driving a particular vehicle... unless it is "needed". I just find statements to that effect to be presumptuous and rude.
But, it's not like SUV's are exploding or becoming a "Christine" ala Stephen King. The vehicles are safe..the drivers in many cases are not. That goes for all vehicle makes and models, the large and the small.
My beef is with people who say you shouldn't be driving SUV's or pick-up trucks because of....(fill in the blank).
Perhaps it is with the way they are expressing this view, which is in an absolute, and not opinionated, manner.
sorry, still ROFL.