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First off, Bowfin47, take a deep breath. Relax. It's just a car - there are plenty more to be had.
Can you PROVE you had a "verbal contract"? And I mean really PROVE it? I'm guessing you can't. At best, all you could prove, through telephone records, is that a call took place between you and someone at the dealership. Verbal contracts rarely hold up in court - and the onus is yours to provide PROOF of said contract. Unless you recorded the call - you cannot prove anything, and you have no legal recourse.
Instead of dancing around on the phone, and getting friends to call (very 8th grade, by the way), why didn't you just go to the lot? I know we're all busy, but, with car deals (as with everything in life) haste makes waste.
Having said that, I think what happened to you is terrible. At best it's due to a lack of communication at the dealership. At worst, it's shady - seller's remorse, like you said.
Maybe try another dealership?
Why did you post this in the Sonata forum? I have to wonder if your lack of attention to detail in forum posting carries over to your car buying methods as well. In which case, that would have been sloppy on your part, and could have caused problems.
I'm not saying the dealership is not without its faults. But, Bowfin47, you need to learn more about the buying process and how to negotiate. You (and your friend) calling the dealership in an attempt to catch them in a lie is not productive, and does not help you at all. I don't mean that as a way to put you down. Learn how to negotiate, and make the dealership compete for your business. There are a lot of great resources here on Edmunds to help educate you on the buying process.
I also see that you posted the exact same thing on RipOffReport.com. I'm guessing you just wanted to vent, and won't be back to post updates.
Again, I have bought a vehicle there and have some knowledge of this particular dealer location...do you? We're in here to try and be helpful...the condescending remarks are childish and uncalled for...a shame we all can't be as smart as you. Give the poor guy a break!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I think I must have come off wrong in my previous post. Let me clear things up...
You are assuming alot in the post
What am I “assuming”? I was merely responding to Bowfin47’s post. Did I assume too much?
and comments like "8th grade behavior" doesn't help the situation...
I guess I can agree with you, sandman, it wasn’t very tactful on my part. I was merely pointing out to Bowfin47 that getting friends to call a dealership to catch them in a lie is counterproductive.
a bit condescending actually.
Eh, maybe. I highly doubt this guy will be back anyway. He’s a one-post-wonder.
Trust me on one thing, I bought a car from this King dealership and what happened doesn't surprise me in the least...they weren't the best dealership to work with.
As you can see from my original post, I didn’t call Bowfin47 a liar. Here’s what I wrote: “Having said that, I think what happened to you is terrible. At best it's due to a lack of communication at the dealership. At worst, it's shady - seller's remorse, like you said.” I think it totally sucks! If you had a similarly poor experience at this dealership, I sympathize with you too.
And there's nothing wrong with a verbal price from a salesman if both sides are on the same page.
I agree. But, it’s not a “contract” like Bowfin47 alluded to. I was informing him that, unless it can be unequivocally proven in court, “verbal contracts” mean nothing. Bowfin47 needs to know that.
The car was probably posted at that price but once there was some interest shown, the price was raised.
Again, I agree. I agreed with Bowfin47 in my original post – seller’s remorse.
But a persons word has to stand for something and it's a shame this particular salesman was such a "weasel".
You and I see eye-to-eye once again. I think what happened to Bowfin47 is incredibly dishonest.
Again, I have bought a vehicle there and have some knowledge of this particular dealer location...do you?
Nope. None. I can just comment on what you, and Bowfin47, tell me – which is why I haven’t disagreed with either of you regarding this dealership.
We're in here to try and be helpful...the condescending remarks are childish and uncalled for...
That’s a judgment call. All I said is that getting his friends to call the dealership is “very 8th grade”. Could I have phased that differently? Sure, and in hindsight I probably should have. I certainly don’t want to come off as a jerk.
Having said that, I was kind of annoyed that he made a post about a Santa Fe in the Sonata forum. I know, I know – you’re going to say that it’s about a dealership, and not specifically the car. Then, why did he post here, and only here. Why not in the Santa Fe forum as well?
a shame we all can't be as smart as you.
My dear sandman, there is more than one way to be “condescending”, as you say. One way is to name call – which you said I did. The other way, is to be passive aggressive. Your above comment is PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE, and not helpful. Please heed your own advice?
Give the poor guy a break!
I was trying to be helpful. I gave him some ideas (like beef up his negotiation skills, etc.)
Sorry- Our employees are idiots.... so hard to find good help these days don't you know.
Good luck
--jjf
The standard Hyundai manufacturer warranties include...
- 10 year / 100,000mi Powertrain Warranty
- 5 year / 60,000mi New Vehicle Limited Warranty
- 7 year / Unlimited mi. Anti-perforation (rust) Warranty
- 5 Year / Unlimited mi. 24-hour Roadside Assistance
- 12 Month / 12,000mi Replacement Parts and Accessory Warranty
- 8 Year / 80,000mi Federal Emmission and Performance Warranty
- 7 Year / 70,000mi California Emmission Control System Warranty
All of those are standard. What more were you thinking about getting from the dealer? Personally, I don't think that a new Hyundai owner needs anything else.
Also, please be aware that if you get a DEALER warranty, it can be voided if you take it somewhere other than original dealer to be serviced. Please read the fine print.
For your reference, here is a link to an article on Edmunds about buying extended warranties. I hope this helps.
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/warranties/articles/139066/article.html
Please let us know what the dealer is asking for the warranty.
$1000 seems fairly pricey for a 5 yr extension of the already long Hyundai warranty, but as you said, they are a high markup item. By the time you figure on selling the car for something else or have it totalled during that extra time kinda negates it. $350 would be a reasonable figure for the Hyundai in my opinion, but extended warantees aren't really designed to be reasonable.
Good luck
--jjf
Enjoyed the forum and all the discussion on the Sonata sedan.
I've been interested in purchasing a Sonata GLS, AUTO, I4 and have been reading the forum since the start of cash-for-clunkers 1 1/2 months ago. Like several who've voiced, the price since the start of the Clunker's program has increased the base price of a GLS by ~$1500 so I was going to wait 'til the end of Clunker this past Monday to proceed with my purchase.
It turned out the Clunker program is so successful, that all 6 dealers I called around Boston area don't have any '09 GLS left in the lot, some may have 2-3 Limited '09 or SE models - none the kinds I want.
I asked the dealers what's the difference between '10 and '09 GLS models, they all say there's is none, except the manufacturer rebate of $1000 vs. $3000 for '09 model. I'd like to know if this is the same case in your neighborhood, where after the cash-for-clunker program, there's no '09 GLS left in the lot? I guess at this point I have no choice but to purchase '10 models?
Jeff
Here, in Richmond, VA, there are plenty of '09 GLS models available. In fact, one local dealer had an ad in the paper yesterday stating they have over 90 in stock.
If I was in your position, I would wait. I'm sure some more '09s will show up. Remember, this is a buyer's market, and the longer you wait, the more power you have.
That's my two cents.
Just wait a couple of months. Once the '09s are cleared out, the rebates on the 2010s will ratchet back up. If you want a really great deal on a 2010 Sonata, wait until the all-new 2011 Sonata is introduced in early 2010.
Thanks
I planed to buy a GLS auto i4 with PEP. It seemed that before C4C, there were already very few such cars in their inventories(most GLS AT I4 are without PEP), not to mention now...
If you get any update on 09 Sonata, can you pls drop me an email? My email is doudou.peng AT gmail.com. Of course if I get some, I will let you know too, but not before you tell me your email addr. :P
I really hope they will offer $3000 rebate for the 2010 model, SOON. Then I will go for the 2010's directly. No need to worry about the color and the package -- there must be plenty of choices.
Thanks for the reply!
bahhhhh....Looks like they don;t want to sell cars or people are buying at these ridiculously high prices which I doubt.
Was wondering if you can provide any details on the dealers in Richmond that might have 09s in stock. Your help is highly appreciated. Thx, Domik
http://westbroadhyundai.com/results.asp?newused=0&seldealers=&selMake=Hyundai&se- - lBody=&selModel=Sonata&selModelLike=&selTrim=&selYear=&selColor=&color=&ZIP=&sel- - Distance=&selPriceMin=&selPriceMax=&selDistanceMin=&selDistanceMax=&stockNum=&tr- - ansmission=&driveType=&engine=&prices=&FilterMake=&xMake=&pictures=&rebates=&dis- - counts=&specials=&comments=&multiPics=&getCert=&ssimages=&vevo=&video=&sortUSED=- - &directUSED=&sortCERT=&directCERT=&sortNEW=car_price1Mod&directNEW=ASC">West Broad Hyundai
If you were talking about some other Richmond than Virginia, can't help much, but that's the Richmond most people keep talking about (2 hours from DC).
Edit: Oops, should have looked closer... only one '09 GLSes in stock, and that's a manual at the same MSRP as the 10, all of the rest are '10s or '09 and '10 Limiteds.
Sure thing!
Pearson Hyundai on Midlothian Turnpike (Midlothian, VA) advertised in the Richmond Times that they had over 90 Sonatas in stock. Their website shows 58 Sonatas in stock. (38 are GLS models!!!!). It is possible they have even more on the lot that are not listed. Pearson is the largest volume dealer in the Richmond area, so it is worth a trip to the lot.
I bought my 09 Sonata GLS from them in April for $14,500 OTD. They are advertising 09 GLS for $13,998 in the newspaper (including 3K HMA rebate, and excluding TTL & freight). Keep that in mind if you go to the lot.
I hope that information helps. Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm glad to help.
Here's the link to their website: http://pearsonhyundai.com/
EDIT: I just noticed that a few posts prior, you were asking for a GLS in New York. Just to be clear, everything I wrote is in reference to Richmond, VA. Regardless, I hope you find a GLS where ever you are!
Thanks,
Chintan
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Dealer had about 80 on the lot, but now they only list 8 09s in stock, none with PEP, and nothing lower than $18k. Not sure if you could negotiate them down to $15k again, but I bet you could! They sold a lot of cars during the C4C program.
Heck, I didn't want the PEP and bluetooth, but the only other one in that color had a couple of scratches that my wife couldn't live with. I wanted the trip computer and steering wheel controls, but didn't think it was worth the extra $600. Ended up getting it for $200 more than the other car.
Nice car for the price. Don't think you can touch a Civic or Corolla for that price.
Oh, and I did the C4C deal - so it was just over $12k. I paid more than that for my 2 year old 95 Altima in 1996!
If you want to drive a few hours you can come down to Fairfax, VA and get this one for under $23k - http://www.fairfaxhyundai.com/ou/fairfax-hyundai/2710_1353/inv/2009HyundaiSonata- /91130
I don't know about the triple rebate - never seen that before. They are also offering an extra $1k trade-in bonus.
Check your dealer's website. Some have pop-up coupons that offer additional money off a purchase (usually $200-500).
You can also look for something - my co-worker used a service that was called something like fax-attack. It basically took what he was looking for and faxed all dealers that he selected. It basically got all of the best offers and saved him some time calling and visiting.
If you've used the dealership before, don't be afraid to ask for a discount. I did and my dealer took an additional $150 off - not much, but better than nothing.
Don't be afraid to expand your search. Look at dealerships in the area, next county (township), nearby state, etc. Your dealer should be willing to compete for your business.
There don't seem to be many V6 Sonatas available. I would say they are probably overpriced. For $27-28k you could be looking at a Maxima or V6 Camry or Accord. You should be able to get a Sonata for several thousand less than one of those vehicles. If not you might want to think about moving up to an Azera.
Having just purchased a GLS for $6k under MSRP, that would be my starting point. Offer the dealer $21500 and see what happens.
My salesperson told me that a $21k MSRP basically has a $6k profit - we were discussing GAP insurance and whether it was worth it based on the amount being financed.
Makes me want to abandom the Hyundai products entirely.
Makes me want to abandom the Hyundai products entirely.
Wow, joywhit, those are some pretty extreme allegations! I also heard that Hyundai hates children, punches old people, kicks puppies, dumps raw sewage in the ocean, and is trying to get Santa Claus banned!
Maybe (just MAYBE) there's a more logical explaination...
Perhaps, Hyundai is looking at the age-old issues of supply and demand. They sold A LOT of cars during C4C. As such, they do not have to continue to use high rebates to move cars. Oh, and it's not just Hyundai - most manufacturers have slashed rebates. (at least those manufacturers that sold a lot of cars did).
As soon as the '10s start to roll in faster, Hyundai will increase the rebates on current models - as will most manufacturers.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying Hyundai "stole the cash for clunkers money from their customers". Seems a bit extreme. Did you buy a car from Hyundai with C4C? If you did - and you feel like you were literally robbed - perhaps you should call the BBB, hire an attorney, or call the cops. But, something tells me that you're going to get the same answer from all three.
Either Americans have gotten incredibly stupid, or solar flares are increasing in strength and frequency, interfering with logical thought process, because just two years ago, loaded Sonatas had an MSRP of about 24k and could be purchased for around 15k to 16k (base GLSs could be bought for 12.5 to 13k).
Wow.
Just....wow.
It's a Hyundai, people. The economy is terrible and getting worse. Cash for Clunker dope effect is over. Dealers are getting desolate and tumbleweed-ish again.
If you're going to spend 20k or more for a new car in this class, and Hyundai is really asking those kind of prices for a Sonata, you might as get a Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Nissan or even a Ford.
These can all be had in the 17k to 20k price range, with MSRPs at least 5k to 7k higher, all day long if you know even a moderate amount of negotiating skill.
I really can't believe how lame Americans have seemingly become in negotiating tactics nor complacent on high prices and scams.
Yes a lotta the money went to dealers, no boycotting Hyundai would not be fruitful as most of the dealers that could, did it.
As for Hyundai, keep in mind that an 08 used:
-GLS auto msrp $20000 has a trade in value of $10000 or so
-Limited auto msrp $27000 has a trade in value of about $11000 or so (kbb.com)
This is what your 09 purchased today will trade in for in 12 months.
So yes, do realize that this IS a Hyundai, and a deal on an 09 GLS for $15000 is definitely nothing to write home about. On the higher trim you may be better off going with the Accord, Toyota or other nameplate.
Good luck
--jim
Just a brief look at the "wayback" machine-- posts from june-july in 09 and 07 and before (possibly not 08-- $4.50 gas made the new civic way popular) shows posts of about $15800 for an lx and the mid 17's for the ex autos. The c4c program from july 24 drove up lots of prices, for clunker and non clunker buyers alike. Some dealers are continuing to exploit the increase in floor traffic, and higher prices for some may be the result for a while.
This was essentially a cash for **dealers** program, uninformed buyers storming showrooms for a "free" $4000 in cash. Obviously in a (temporary-- with a deadline) seller's market the lx that sat unsold at $16200 suddenly has a price of $18500 (msrp) + $1000 for fabric & protection pkg. The gov't money replacing the manufacturer and dealer incentives for a month. If the "clunker"was worth $1500 or so many probably made off worse than they would have a month before.
...
If the traditional August price breaks were ruined for many buyers by this dopey gov't program thats that. If inventories of some models are still rather high, deals may be found there.
The Civic, Corolla and Ford Focus were the most popular C4C vehicles, which made up about 600,000 of the (record)1,000,000 vehicles sold this month. We'll probably be back to 400,000 /mo sales soon.
Good luck
--jjf
We have an 09 Sonata Ltd, 4cyl, no other options in good to excellent condition. MSRP when we bought last summer was roughly $24000 and we paid about $19300 +ttl. According to kbb.com and edmunds.com our trade-in for this vehicle is in the $15500 to $16000 range and a CPO value around $22000. How do you figure only $11000 for a trade-in value? Please provide the parameters you used to come up with that figure from kbb. :confuse:
-Go to kbb.com
-Look up the used value of an 08 limited 4cyl auto with 24k miles or so
-See the result in excellent (top) condition.
This is what an 09 purchased today will trade in for in 12 months. However if the economy further worsens, a used car may be worth more, but one may not have a job to buy it.
Good luck
--jim
Limited auto msrp $27000 has a trade in value of about $11000 or so (kbb.com)
We have an 09 Sonata Ltd, 4cyl, no other options in good to excellent condition. MSRP when we bought last summer was roughly $24000 and we paid about $19300 +ttl. According to kbb.com and edmunds.com our trade-in for this vehicle is in the $15500 to $16000 range and a CPO value around $22000. How do you figure only $11000 for a trade-in value? Please provide the parameters you used to come up with that figure from kbb.
Good discounts are available on Sonatas and on other cars in that class. But not to the degree you imply, except in very rare cases.
Also, loaded Mazda6s, Accords, Camrys, and Altimas list for well over $30k. So what is the problem with a loaded Sonata listing for, today, into the upper $20s, and maybe with the next generation, with improvements and a hybrid option, breaking $30k list? That is the going list price for a loaded mid-sized car these days.
What is the average price of car in 2009?
The average price is $27,958, up 6 percent from last year.
I got an '09 Ltd with nav for $21699. I still think Hyundais are the best deals around.
Fitzmall, a no haggle dealer, was selling Sonata GLSs w/automatic transmissions for $14,1xx all day long back in March. I know. I called. I saw their inventory online.
Manuals could be had for less.
Once Cash for Clunkers was announced, prices on those same exact cars went up $1,900, and they've gone higher now, as much of the inventory left is more optioned out.
I still believe prices will fall again, as Manufacturers must keep producing, will pressure dealers to restock inventory, and because of a terrible economy, the cycle of rebates and incentive cash will be needed more than ever to move metal, even if I grant the assumption that fewer units will be produced (which I'm not so sure of).
If Manufacturers don't manufacture, they don't have a chance to protect their market share, and that puts their long term margins at risk.
So it looks like we are in agreement, except on the low-end pricing for Sonatas. Maybe there's some sales reports here that go back to 2007 that support your prices of $12.5k at the low end and $15k for a loaded car?
Edit: Turns out there aren't. Reports from the August-to-October 2007 timeframe show real-world prices considerably more than $12.5-13K for GLSes and $15-16k for fully loaded Sonatas. One reason could be the rebates were less then, only $1000 general rebate in most states on the 2008s (2007s were nearly gone by then).
I apologize for the confusion.
Right now, there is no press to put rebates on the '10 because it's the brand new model year, just out. In two months (or even late next month) there will start to be pressure to move units again; the auto industry is like a large snake that way, they've just gorged, now they aren't hungry. Sometime between mid-late October and the Christmas time frame, rebates will shoot back up, as the pressure to move units increases. If your 2000 is still in decent enough shape to make that, then by all means, wait until Christmas.... you'll have enough to pay for the presents in your savings.
I am also with billward & suggest that you wait as long as you can. I'm also in the market for a Sonata for my wife but am not willing to pay the high price dealers want now.
Historically the rebates get larger towards the end of the year (Xmas, Thxgiving) as foot traffic is lowest during those months even in the best of times. I would be extremely surprised if the the rebates don't go up in Oct/Nov/Dec. Also, if you're financing, those are the times when they start the 0% financing offerings. You'd be saving a bundle.
I know you are worried that the trade-in bonus, college grad rebates etc. would expire at the end of this month. Only Hyundai knows if they would extend the offers next month as well. But as I said, I would be very very surprised if the rebates don't get larger in the next few months.
Right now, the dealers in Houston are not in a mood to offer good deals. Even used Sonatas (even former rentals) are not being discounted at the dealers. (For ex, dealers want 14k-15k for a used former rental 09 Sonata with 35-40k miles!! HA!!)
I know you've got the new car itch now. Fortune favors those with patience & the impatient become car dealer's lunch!
Since they want people to buy as soon as possible; all rebates run month-to-month. My experience is that they are almost always renewed or improved the next month.
Second, the new scam to watch out for in trade-ins is that dealers now offer you "what the bank will loan" someone else on your car. Which ignores the fact that most people will add their own money, especially on an older car. I would check several websites (I think Edmunds does that now, too) for what comparable cars are selling for, then deduct whatever you think is a fair profit and ask for the remainder. Don't be afraid to tell them you'll go elsewhere if you don't get a reasonable trade-in.
Should I wait a little bit more for a 2010 model? Did anyone get a good deal in Sept.
I drive by Pearson Hyundai everyday, and I can assure you: they have A LOT of 09 Sonatas! They probably have 80 on the lot.
I bought mine from Pearson in April for $14,500 OTD. I have the GLS PEP standard transmission. $13,950 isn't an outrageous figure - assuming it's for a GLS standard transmission. I thought they were very nice, and were willing to negotiate with me.
Of course, the longer you wait, the more room you have to negotiate. $14,500 in April was a great deal at the time. $13,950 is a great deal now. Who knows, in December, the price could be $12,950.
The longer you wait, the stronger your position.
I hope that information helps. Let us know what you decide to do. Happy buying.
Thanks a lot!
Called them. They asked $17500 OTD for a white color GLS AT and $19700 OTD for a silver GLS with PEP (sunroof). Seems much different from their advertisement. Not sure how much room I could have to negotiate with them when I go to the dealership.