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Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE
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GM I am sure, respects what Honda has done as well. Apparently, GM has decided Saturn and Honda are too close, so it is not looking to match CRV sales with the VUE. From what I have seen, it appears the new Tracker will be positioned in looks and amenities to compete more with the Escape and the Liberty than head on with the CRV.
This is a growing market segment. It appears that GM figures the VUE can appeal to those who either want a Saturn, like some of the different confiuratins the VUE offers, or do not want to wait for the CRV, until such time, if ever, that Honda can find added capacity.
And FYI, it's "litigation," not "litogation."
Steve
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Think for yourself buyer. Don't listen to the hype from the CRV or Vue owners. Go test drive those machines and pick what YOU LIKE. Because honestly, there's barely a "dime's bit of difference between the two" and your decision is going to end up being based solely on your opinion of the design, color, service or a myriad of other variables that have nothing to do with facts.
To save you some time, most of the last few hundred messages on here are from Honda and Vue fans (including myself) going back and forth on what they like and think is better on their respective vehicles. But you can save some time, buyer, go look at them and decide what YOU LIKE!
1. The VUE is nothing special BUT is a very worthy competitor in the small SUV market. It holds it's own against the established competition.
2. The CRV is not God's gift to the SUV world, has flaws also and is also a very worthy competitor in the small SUV market.
The price issue is a very difficult thing to discuss as these vehicles are very different in available configurations. The VUE prices if you want FWD only are much less but closely comparable AWD versions are much closer in price and depend on if you are talking V6 or 4 cyl VUE. Since CR-V has no V6 it's hard to compare.
All that aside, my biggest concern about Saturn is whether it will still exist five years from now, or whether it will go the way of Oldsmobile. Under Bob Lutz, you can expect some more cost cuts to come, and Saturn--with its anachronistic manufacturing structure--is not currently profitable. He's already cancelled plans to use the ION's delta platform in the upcoming Opel Astra (though it's still planned for use in the Chevy Cavalier), and one can't help wonder what that says about Saturn's future. Even at best, I imagine you'll see a drop in the dealership experience as expenses are trimmed.
As to my $0.02 on the CR-V vs. VUE issue, I will say that while the Saturns I've driven are among the best cars that GM has made, they fall a little short of the standard set by the Japanese, especially when it comes to overall refinement. That shortfall is compounded by the fact that because of Saturn's no-haggle pricing policy, they do not represent any kind of bargain relative to their competitors, and hence give no incentive to overlook any relative shortcomings.
On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily recommend purchasing the CR-V over the VUE. As the owner of five Hondas over the years, I can tell you that they are by no means the best cars on the road. "Legendary" Honda reliability is also not all it's cracked up to be, especially if you are unlucky enough to purchase a model built at the Ontario, Canada, plant (the CR-V is built in Japan, fortunately). And if you've closely checked out recent Hondas, you'll notice that company has started skimping in a lot of minor but still noticeable ways in order to hold prices down. Add in very spotty dealer service to the mix, and the argument for a Honda isn't too compelling.
So what does this all boil down to? Go out and drive the two vehicles for yourself and choose the one you like best, because the differences between the strengths and weaknesses of both the brands and the individual models are so small that they aren't worth quibbling about. Then go drive a WRX and ask yourself why you were interested in buying an SUV in the first place.
As for Honda quality, the numbers generally speak and it's definitely in the top 2 or 3. That said, there are no perfect cars and there will always be a lemon here or there.
MSRP and invoice pricing are not opinions.
I was referring to your continuing to state that the Vue is less expensive than the CR-V. Yes when looking at a FWD, 4 cylinder model with manual transmission since no comparable CR-V model is available (although can you really say something is cheaper than nothing?). But when looking at other models, the prices are comparable or even favor the CR-V.
That was my point. You are entitled to any opinion you want, but when you start making false statements when the truth is out there, you better believe I will point it out.
To everyone else, go to the lot and check it out for yourself. Self-proclaimed experts are usually just that . . . SELF-proclaimed.
The proof is in the price when you go down to your local dealers. (You have to go there to test-drive them anyway. Why not do some price comparison?) Don't take anyone's word for it. 20K plus is a lot to spend to take the word of some guy on the net.
Am I making this up? No, all I'm doing is looking at the numbers. Am I saying I'm a "self-proclaimed expert"? Well maybe at looking up prices, but it's really not that hard, anyone can do it.
And you are 100% correct. Let them find out for themselves that the CR-V costs less than a comparably equipped the Vue.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Why would I eat crow? I have qualified my statement as well as I can. "Comparably equipped", etc. I also said several times I am going by posted prices. I can't control what dealers charge or what people pay.
If someone should eat crow it should be the person who for more than a month said the Vue was cheaper (a good word) than a CR-V. Only after I did the research was it pointed out that it is for a Vue model that has no comparable equivalent in the CR-V. That's who should eat crow, yet they still have not even acknowledged this fact.
Now addressing another topic. Availability and when people knew about the Vue. Looking through some old mags I had, the Vue was the cover story on C&D in October 2001. At least eight months ago based on how far in advance they put out their issues. Now I know you couldn't buy one then, but to keep insisting that no one knows (or knew) about the Vue is just not true.
"most of the last few hundred messages on here are from Honda and Vue fans (including myself) going back and forth on what they like and think is better on their respective vehicles."
Well I have pretty much been trying to debunk the pricing issue. I don't think I ever said what was better or worse. I think I have gone out of my way to say "better" is an opinion.
I am tired of being accused of things I don't do. Someone said I was a "strutting rooster". So I'm a pain because I question someone's general statement? If I went around saying the CR-V is better than the Vue, you're wasting you're money buy buying the Vue, etc. then complain. All I did was point out that a general statement about pricing isn't always true. Why does it bother people so much? Does the truth hurt? You don't call the person who posted the inaccurate pricing any names, why me?
I have been more than gracious in this whole thing. Not any more.
I'll start. . . I got my V-6 Vue a couple of months ago and it's running great. The only problem I had was that the housing covering the steering wheel was loose when I first got it. I took it back to Saturn and it was fixed inside of a couple of minutes. I got a doughnut and a free car wash out of it. (laugh) I have taken her for some light off-roading and she has performed quite well under a variety of circumstances. Right after I got the Vue, we had a substantial snowstorm and again, it performed very well. We have also had some 90 degree dusty days . . . again superb. The only things I have been to the dealer for were some of those nifty options you can get. I got the cargo mat to protect the carpet in the cargo area. I got the bumper guard which protects the bumper when you drag stuff out of the cargo area. I got the wheel locks. (We have some recent local tire thieves here) And I am getting ready to have the towing package installed. Overall I am quite happy with what I paid and what I got.
By the way, when I was buying in January, I also tested the CRV, Liberty, Escape/Tribute, Aztek, Exterra and a couple of larger models (I was considering a larger SUV but alas the gas mileage turned me away). For the following reasons, I chose the Vue:
1. Myself as well as people I know had previous good experience with Saturns.
2. The ride in the Vue was comfortable and the front seats were very comfortable.
3. I decided that the power in the 4 cylinders was just not enough for me so that left the CRV out in the cold.
4. I didn't like the design of the Aztek.
5. The Liberty was my second choice as it had a good choice of options and a V-6 but alas the ride was less than comfortable.
6. The Trib/Escape seemed cheap to me (The door handle felt like it would break off in my hand) and the seats were very uncomfortable to me.
7. The Vue design was different and very appealing to me.
8. The Vue that was on the lot had all the options I wanted.
9. I felt the price was fair for the value in service and performance that I will receive.
Well that's about it and those are not necessarily in the order of my thought process in choosing the Vue but they are most of the reasons.
How 'bout some of the other Vue owners or some CRV owners? Tell us about your buying experience and how you got there?
Latter that week we were killing some time on a Saturday afternoon and I decided to go test drive the VUE for fun and to waste time. We had a good conversation with the salesperson and upon understanding that I wanted a stick shift, he let us test drive one on the lot. I liked it a lot during the driving too. So, we come back inside and after I explain to him what I would want in a small SUV, but that the VUE was just a little too pricy right now, he hands me the Sports Plus Package deal (basically a $2600 discount with almost everything I wanted). This sparks my interest in buying a new vehicle in general.
We decide that it would be really nice to have all that extra cargo space, comming from a Honda Civic Coupe. I look almost all the options: VUE, Tribute,CR-V, Matrix, Protege5, etc. I pick the VUE as the winner for the following reasons:
1. Styling, wheels aren't too small, a la CR-V
2. Fuel Mileage
3. Usable Cargo Volume - Having volume isn't enough, it must be useable, and the Protege5 was a good example of non-useable space.
4. Ease of use, everything was very easy to use, from the seat folding to the dials. CR-V was actually very good here as well, but it didn't have a fold down front seat, which I viewed as a BIG plus.
5. 5-Speed Manual transmission. Actually each car/SUV had this, and the VUE's was equal to the task.
6. Good Passenger volume. This is where the Cars aren't as competent.
7. The price. With the sports plus package, I got this all at a very sweet deal. ABS w/Traction Control, Sunroof, 16" Alloy Wheels, Mud Flaps, CD player w/6 speakers, power everything, remote entry, and cruise control for $17,600. Not too shabby.
The Matrix couldn't even beat this and the Protoge5 could match the price, but not the volume of the VUE. The Tribute which was close in price and options has the worst 4 cylinder/5 speed transmission of the group. The Sante Fe 5 spd isn't even available. The CR-V only came with the right options in the EX, which although it added AWD and a 6-CD changer, I didn't think that those upgrades were worth almost $4000.
That being said, I am quite happy after only a few days. I do have some issues with the interior fit and finish though. I have some lose panels that need tightening, but everything else seems fine.
-LL
I eliminated some small utes right off the bat just on principle. The Sportage, the Santa Fe and the RAV 4. My own reasonings, no real need to go into them.
I wanted AWD. I didn't care about a V6 (I could take it or leave it). After some debating I decided on an auto transmission so another member of my family would be able to drive it.
I felt the Escape (and Tribute) was underpowered with the 4 cyl. and the V6 didn't do enough for me to justify the cost. Plus there were a host of quality problems. The Vue wasn't available in the configuration I wanted. I briefly considered the Highlander but it would have had to have the bigger engine and then it was out of my price range. Some other upcoming models seemed promising but I couldn't wait.
So that left the CR-V. Didn't feel it was lacking power for my needs (won't be towing, don't usually have a full cargo load, etc.). Styling is pretty good, looks like an SUV. Had everything I wanted standard including a sunroof which I hadn't had for 13 years. Bought it. Is it the best small SUV? Don't know. Is it the best value? Don't know. It works for me.
Several test drives in the CR-V left a good impression. Each time I've driven an EX model. I haven't had a chance to drive a 5 speed, but based on my current vehicle, I have a pretty good idea of how it'll perform. I've only driven the VUE in V6 form.
Acceleration - The VUE required that I press the pedal almost to the floor. Not a problem, just something to get used to. The response in the CR-V was more linear with respect to the pedal. Both had ample power. No problems on town roads or highway speeds.
While I was impressed with the highway EPA figures for the V6 VUE, those numbers are unproven (the Escape, for example, rarely meets the EPA numbers). It's not a problem, just an unknown. The CR-V is a proven performer in that regard and the higher city figures were a bonus. Not a big deal, but combined with the CR-V's LEVII status, I have to give the nod to the Honda.
Dash layout in both vehiles was fine. I've driven Chevys in the past an I'm accustomed to the window switches on the center console. It's not a problem for me. I did prefer the location of the gear selector in the VUE, but the HVAC controls in the CR-V are better. With the CR-V, I'm not a fan of the cubbies in the passenger's side of the dash. On the other hand, they serve a function. The VUE's front passenger gets treated to a flat blank space that serves no purpose. No real winner here.
Well, there's more, but I gotta get back to work. To be continued...
I actually liked the 4 banger better than the 6 in a way, but it may just have been me enjoying driving a stick again after 7 years of automatics. I think the heat/air controls and the center console are the parts that seem a bit cheap. Rest of the controls were fine.
As for the CR-V, the center controls all seemed to be in the wrong spot to me but were slightly better in quality feel. The main thing I disliked about the CR-V is the side swing gate, otherwise it's a good truck.
Over all I agree, it's a close call and really depends on what you are looking for in configuration, price, options and style.
Handling - I found that both were reasonably easy to move around. Body lean was well controlled in both. I don't see a strong advantage for one over the other, but the VUE did feel more ponderous under my tush. Probably because it's a heavier vehicle than the new CR-V and considerably heavier than my current '99 model.
I didn't get into heavy duty brake testing. I generally leave that to the magazines. Suffice it to say that pedal feel was adequate in both.
Both automatics shifted well and rode smoothly (for an SUV). Both had reasonable levels of NVH. Seat comfort was adequate in both. The CR-V lacks a real dead pedal, though. It just has a lump on the floor that has been covered with a small piece of a rubber mat. I do have to give the CR-V props for the space and comfort of the rear seats. Even the slide mechanism is simple and familiar to operate. It's just like a front bucket seat.
I found that the CR-Vs cargo area was easier to change around. One tug on a loop and the seats folded up. The rear seats slide on a track to make incremental adjustments to the cargo area. One side or the other may be adjusted and with the 60% side slid all the way forward, mom and dad would have easy access to a child (in a car seat). The VUE's cargo area may be slightly wider, but not enough to make a significant difference IMO. The CR-V's load floor appeared to be lower, which is better for lifting in heavier objects. While I can understand the issues with the swing-out gate, I still give the CR-V the advantage here.
I appreciate the VUE's built-in grocery gate. It may be cheaply constructed, but you wouldn't be using it to pen an elephant. How sturdy does it have to be? It's a tough call between that feature and the CR-V's picnic table. The picnic table works well for me as I can store things under it, while my hounds (who like to chew things) ride in the back.
BTW, sport plus package is indeed a great deal!
looked at the VUE and the only ones they had were
$25k + another $1k for a sunroof.If they had shown me a sport package for $17600 I would have
considered it.I don't need a AWD but to get a sunroof I had to take it.I do like the VUEs dent proof doors because as it is I am always parking far away from people to avoid door bashers.How do Saturns hold up in resale?I know the maintenance is cheaper than Honda.
Oh well went to autosite and kbb.com a standard 99' SL2 with no options and low miles will still cost you $8-9k not bad for a car that was $12.5 brand new. Trade in is $7-7.5k in my mind that's really good.
varmit : Grocery holder seems cheap, but the sales man showed me how flexible and strong it was. It's a neat feature. Like I said, the VUE and CR-V have different configs. and CR-V AWD 5-speed obviously suits you better.
I'm also in the Boston area have to deal with the occassional snow storm. Traction control and a good set of snow tires is probably good enough for the snow that we get, but snow tires aren't cheap and they would wear out quickly here. It snows for a while and the roads are covered for a few days. Then it clears up and the roads are bare for a few weeks. Then it snows again. Under those conditions, soft rubber snow tires would get chewed up pretty quickly.
I really don't see a huge advantage with either vehicle over your current one. Unless you want tons of options and an auto and more power. That's when you might look into a V6 VUE.
I'm looking at something with a tab bit more space than my current CR-V. I frequently use the car to transport my two greyhounds, but I also use the back seat for passengers. When I had only one dog this wasn't a problem. Now that I have two hounds, I need more luggage space with the seats still available to passengers. Unfortunately, neither the VUE nor the '02 CR-V fit the bill. I still test drove them out of curiosity.
Somewhere in the next few years, I'll probably buy a Pilot, Highlander, or another one of the upcoming crossovers.
And in white no less.
A white one looks like one of those new-fangled washing machines -- the maytag one with the front-load feature and sloping front.
Doesn't ride too well when off-centre though.
:-)
GM_Litogation - I'd go the way of the Sienna or Mazda MPV before the Aztek. It's not that the Aztek isn't functional, it's just that I can get the same function from better and less ugly vehicles. With the minivans, at least I have the option of a third row seat.
I'd like to stick with an SUV so that I can still enjoy the ocassional romp through the trails. It also helps when the town plow leaves a berm of snow at the end of my driveway/parking lot. I'm leaning toward the Pilot because there may be times when I could use a third row. It's not often, but I volunteer with an organization similar to Boy Scouts and do have to haul teenagers around. I'm also waiting to see what the Nissan Murano will be like.