Personally, in Virginia, the Honda dealers treat their customers terrible. They act like you owe them something. They are rude and short with the customer. It is completely the opposite with the Saturn dealer. They bend over backwards to help you both in the Sales and Service Departments. A That is the primary reason I returned to Saturn and bought a Vue. I got good money for my SL-1 trade-in too.
As to the CRV vs. the Vue, the differences are negligible. You can compare them straight down the line. One has this. The other has that. One has more of this. The other has more of that. Quite honestly, the differences people talk about on this board are either simply a matter of opinion or are so negligible as to not make a "real world" difference. Honestly, if you want to know which is better, you should test driving both models and research them widely. That's what I did. There are plenty of articles made up of not only opinions but fact, all over the net. Read them and take a look at what you consider important in a vehicle and make the decision!
Lastly, as to customer satisfaction, you won't find it better than at Saturn. While there are exceptions and I am sure there are a few dissatisfied Saturn owners, you will be hard-pressed to find a better customer experience (not just at the point of sale but throughout ownership). DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS! Look around on the net. Go to epinion, edmunds, saturnalia and other sites where owners congregate.
Well having a nice sales experience at a Saturn dealership certainly gets you off on the right foot.
But to be honest, aside from the initial tussle over the sale I only return to my VW dealer every 5 months for an oil and filter. And their service dept is great.
If you consider a no bargain situation for a sub-standard product then Saturn should be your choice. The Saturn ads are slick and over hyped and the sales people were OK, but there was no bargain on the one we bought. Checking local ads, 4 or 5 year old Saturns are advertised at prices significantly below similar Honda, Toyota and Nissan products. If you buy one, you better like it because it will definitely be yours unless you want to give it away.
I don't think your comments are fair. Saturn products are far from "sub-standard" and clearly statistics show Saturn buyers are extremely happy with their cars and their dealers year after year. As for re-sale, Saturns are among the better cars out there. Honda and Toyota are the best, but compared to the rest Saturn is very good, at least around here.
Dindak: As I stated in an earlier post, there are legions of happy Saturn owners and I speak only from personal experience and observations. I went to the dealer and looked at the LS model prior to purchase of a Honda Accord and there was really no basis for comparison. Compared to other domestic models, the Saturn doesn't come off too badly but against Japanese or European makes they are sadly lacking. If one looks at the finish, paint and fit of the body panels, drives it and listens to the body creaks and groans, the noisy engines and compares the miserable seats with those of an Accord or Camry the differences become very apparent. I may have bought from a poor dealership but "once bitten twice shy". I hope people buy lots of Saturns, makes my Hondas just that much more appealing when it comes time to off them. I think many repeat Saturn customers are there because no one else will take them on trade. I couldn't get low book (Edmunds) for mine on trade even for a lowly Nissan pickup. (The old "hard body" style). There is something rather unappealing about a new auto that has water leaks. Hadn't experienced that since a 1957 Dodge. The worst part was the dealer telling me that it was just Saturn and to park it when it rains hard.
There is no doubt the first year LS models were a disappointment but the VUE is not the same vehicle. You can't say because one is bad, they are all bad. The VUE is the best thing Saturn has right now. No it's not perfect, but it is a worthy competitor regardless of it's origin.
I can't speak for your Saturn dealer, but statistically it is clearly an anomaly as Saturn dealers generally go out of their way to make the customer happy. Saying that people only buy Saturns again because no one else will take the trade is ridiculous! You are sounding like a typical Honda snob and if you are one, then obviously there is no point in discussing any further with you.
I am new to the car buying world. I am interested in getting opinions regarding the 2002 CR-V and VUE. I thought I had decided to get the CR-V and I test drove the VUE. I have reservations about both. I would like to hear from owners or car buyers with experience regarding how to make the best decision. My husband is in Vet School. We are looking for a safe car for me to drive, it has been snowing for months and my Eagle Talon is not cutting it for safety! If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.
It pains me to say it but the CR-V is experiencing problems. Many will chalk it up to it being a new model. The Vue is also in its first year and they can't even get out the auto transmission for the 4 cylinder because of quality problems. Avoid first year models.
Unfortunately I needed a vehicle so I had to buy, so now myself and all the others get to be the test subjects---I didn't realize that's what I was signing up for so I am not happy.
Subaru Forester is a good alternative. Their new model is coming later in the Spring though, so..... Other Subarus as well should be considered, they're the AWD champs in my eyes.
carguy : There have not been any CVT models produced yet. CVT is being manufactured by a 3rd party that can't seem to get it together. Saturn has done well in catching a potential disaster. You are right though, there is a risk in any new model. That said, if there was any dealer I would buy a new model from it would be Saturn as you know they will take care of you.
newautobuyer : Check out the VUE forum. Buyers so far seem happy.
I read the country involved, some eastern European country if I recall.
And as to Saturn taking care of first year problems better than any other manufacturer, I don't see what difference it would make. If the vehicle has bugs to work out, nobody except the Engineering staff can help.
NEW BUYER: If you want real world experiences on both models, go to the CRV and Vue Boards on Edmunds. Also go to epinions and Saturnalia and the Yahoo boards. There is a load of information on the net from owners of both vehicles. You just have to take some time and look around.
Also, more importantly, go down to the dealer and drive these machines.See what YOU like, not what everyone else likes.
TIMZ58: You sound bitter about your buying experience of a first year SL-1. Since this is a Vue v. CRV board and your message talks about neither, I think you are better off visiting the boards of the vehicles you wish to discuss. In other words, your opinion on the SL-1 has no bearing here. Let's get back to talking about CRV's and Vue's. And let's talk about them with intelligent, thought-out information or opinions instead of sniping about old news. It's like discussing Firestone and Ford-It has no place on this board.
Tidester: Aren't you supposed to keep the discussions to the topic? TIMZ is talking about a completely different model.
I don't know too much about the CRV, but I can tell you that for the most part the parts on the VUE have been around for a couple of years. As far as the auto on the 4 banger is concerned, that's a new thing altogether. I think that if a person is looking to get a Saturn it will have few if any serious problems. I also think that if they can be satisfied with a manual and a 5 speed the sport package VUE is a great deal.
Also you have to keep in mind that if you do have any problems with your Saturn, VUE, LS, or SL Saturn is ready and willing to bend over backwards and get you going again. I know because my Grandmother has an SL2 and she had a minor problem with her seat adjustment lever, it was really her fault, but Saturn got her fixed up really fast, no charge. Other than that and her regular free car washes and maintenance I can't really say too much about the service.
But she tells me it's great, and she was really impressed with how nice all those young people are up there at Saturn.
Taking my wife Saturday to check out VUE. I'm not sure if I will select the opposite of what she likes(checking out the CR-V with her next week).From what she's seen on the road, she thinks the Honda is cute. CUTE? Maybe I'm not secure enough for cute. Carguy-What problems are you having with your CR-V? Dindak: I'm only looking at the 6cyl VUE which, I understand is a tweeked version of their sedan engine.I'll keep you posted on what SHE thinks.
Onelucky7, Brand loyalty and quality are two very significant factors in the selection of vehicles. If you had bothered to read the posts, I had a 1994 SL2, not an SL1 nor a 1st year model. I recently purchased a 2002 CRV EX after careful research and consideration of the following vehicles: Jeep Liberty and Cherokee; Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute; Nissan Xterra, Suzuki XL7, Subaru Outback; Passat 4motion wagon; Chevrolet Trailblazer/GMC Envoy and Toyota Hilander. I visited the Saturn dealership in an attempt to include all possible vehicles and didn't see much improvement in quality control/fit and finish from the 94 SL2, thus eliminating the VUE from realistic consideration. And yes to Dindak, I am a "Honda Snob". Any vehicle that provides the market value, quality, reliability and resale that their products do will earn my business. I would truly love to find a domestic product that provides the same quality as the Hondas. To the happy Saturn owners that may have been offended, I apologize but make no excuses for my comments regarding the quality of the vehicles and service from the dealer. Further, if you don't like the posts, don't read 'em.
I knew Honda once had a CVT civic (HX???), but I never did see one. I wonder how they held up, I never heard a thing about them other than they were smooth and a couple salesmen thought they were actually 6 speed autos!!! Also a civic is smaller and lighter than a VUE (I would hope anyways). Granted they are both mated to 4 cyl engines, but this is one of the weaknesses of typical CVTs (can't handle much power). If GM went with a belt and pulley system then I would expect some problems with maximum amount of power! Does anyone know what type of CVT the VUE is getting?
carguy : CVT comes from Poland. Not sure what the problem is, but as I understand it, some of the parts were not durable enough for Saturn. As for first year problems, having a dealer that goes out of their way to make you happy and tries hard to get your vehicle fixed is better than having one that doesn't care. Just makes the experience a little better is all.
timz58 : Well now that you have admitted to being a Honda snob, we all know where what angle comments are coming from. Keep in mind your experience is not everyone elses.
artdecho : Ya Honda has used CVTs in the past I think. Not sure if any current models use them. Saturn clearly picked the wrong company to supply them. Glad I didn't order one, God only knows when I would ever get it.
It comes with the territory - discussions will always drift from the prescribed topic. As long as it's not too far off-topic and not for too long then it's within reason and acceptable. Obviously, it would be over the line if the discussion here drifted onto Mercedes Benz or Krispy Kremes for more than a few posts!
Anyway, the topic IS ... drumroll ... Honda CR-V vs. Saturn Vue!
And everyone kept coming over and taking a bite out of my fender.
I thought the cv transmission was coming from Hungary. Whatever. What saturn has said is that some of the parts of the system did not meet spec. This is a realistic scenario, but it's impossible to tell what's really going on with it. I wonder how seriously GM is thinking about ditching it and going with the set up already available in other saturns.
I thought the only car with a cvt that sold in any real volume was the subaru justy, not exactly a big car.
This forum asks the question..........."Which is better CRV or VUE?" Obviously the answer to this question is subjective and will suffer from various angles. But it does occur to me that we have never had those "First Year Problems" with Honda Products. Usually pretty well worked out by the time the product comes to market without having to go back to the dealer to be taken care of. Aw yes, Dindak, we Honda Snobs will continue to enjoy (for the most part) trouble free motoring. In actuality, I would like to see the Vue a success but it really sounds as if it needed a lot more work before it's debut. It would be refreshing to see domestic products with the same quality as the Japanese and European autos. I think General Motors with products like the Trailblazer, Rondevous and Vibe will eventually get there. Their big trucks are first rate and one can hope that level of innovation and technology will migrate to the Saturn Line. Who knows, the Vue may be viable in 4 or 5 years when they solve the transmission problem and other miscues.
timz58 : You clearly live in fantasy land if you think Hondas are "trouble free driving". Take a look at all the problems first year Honda Oydessey owners had. Our neighbor's Honda Accord transmission had to be replaced in the first year. There is no such thing as trouble free driving. Honda is one of the best no doubt, but even so it isn't much better than most of the rest. Oddly enough though, Honda owners are way down the list in terms of satisfaction.
tidester : Mmmm Krispy Kreme. Mmmm donuts.
maynardf1 : You may be right actually. I think it is Hungary. Clearly Saturn should reconsider the whole CVT thing if it isn't resolved for the 2003 model. Saturn also needs to ramp up production as there isn't much supply around. Local dealer has only 1 base 5-speed on the lot aside from the owner's V6.
All vehicles have their first year teething issues. The automatic doors on the Ody are a good example. It looks like the CEl for the CR-V is another. I'm sure that someone more familiar with GM products could list a few for their products.
That said, there is still a significant difference between long term reliability between the Japanese, European, and American product lines. Statistics show that it isn't as big as it was a decade ago, but the US still has a way to go.
I'm generally against comparing manufacturer reputations, though. The L series might be the worst vehicle on the road. What does that have to do with the VUE? We don't compare the performance of an S2K with a CR-V because they are completely different designs. Why would we compare their reliability? The obvious answer is, we shouldn't!
why is it even considered an issue? Last time I checked you couldn't even purchase an Escape 4 banger with an Auto anyway.
I don't think that we should fault Saturn for this, they could've just thrown it out into the market and then let us worry about. You know like Microsoft.
The CVT isn't a problem from a reliability point of view (pardon the pun). It's a problem because it limits the customer on what they can purchase. Currently, the only way to get AWD is to buy a V6. I think that sales of the CR-V, Forester, and RAV4 have pretty well shown there is a strong market for the economical four banger models. While the V6 version is a nice vehicle, it raises the cost considerably.
Does anyone really need awd? Me personally I would prefer FWD with traction control. I can't really see the benefit of AWD, seems like it just adds weight and gets worse gas mileage.
I mean think about it this way, with FWD you almost always have a pretty good amount of traction. I drove my Aurora in the snow and ice recently, granted it is equipped with ABS, traction control, and PCS it performed extraordinarily well. It was like driving in rain. It gave me confidence that no other car has ever given me, not even my old 4x4 Chevy truck was as sure footed.
gm_litogation : I think there are some people that live in very snowy areas that really do need AWD, but for most people FWD is enough in my opinion. Even living in Canada (where most parts of the country do get some snow) I would probably only buy a FWD.
varmit : With gas prices on the rise again, fuel economy is becoming more of an issue with more people. Gas is up about 15% in the last 2-3 weeks here.
artdecho : Some of the V6 models I've seen are pretty pricey if you add too many options. Still, I'm surprised there are that many as none of the dealers on the west end have more than 1 or 2.
Well, It looks like Honda dealers made my decision easy. Went to arrange an extended drive on CR-V,dealer told me only "around block" since they don't want to rack up miles on demo!! Saturn dealer said take as long as you want and salesman does not have to come. I realize there is a great deal more demand for Honda, but that's ridiculous. One of these days they may come begging for business and it will be my pleasure to tell them what they can do with it.
Dindak: Opinions about whether one vehicle is better than another are obviously sibjective and will be deeply influenced by personal experience. My personal experience with Honda has been outstanding. I was a boilerplate GM fan until I bought my first one, a used 87 Accord with 100K + miles. Did the necessary maintenance and drove it trouble free for another 100K and sold it for 3/4 of what I paid. I have personally known 5 other Saturn owners that experienced similar problems. Most of them had better luck getting the problems taken care of with the exception of the leaks but overall were very glad to see the cars gone. Should the Vue prove to be a better vehicle than my CRV, I am willing to eat a lot of crow, but the chances of that are slim and none. The biggest difference is that Honda seems to be able to solve those 1st year glitches quickly whereas domestic manufacturers have trouble doing that. My vehicles get a lot of miles on them and must be available at not at the dealer for repair/adjustment constantly. Our 99 Accord just rolled over 80K miles virtually trouble free with only routine maintenance. My mechanic loves Saturns (lots of bucks for repairs) and hates Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans because of the loss of revenue. The quality of domestics has improved markedly over the last decade but the imports and foreign based marques seem to stay ahead of the game in sales and owner loyalty. They have to be doing something right. For those that buy Saturn or other US made brands, bless you for supporting the economy etc............but I can't afford them until they come up to the same quality as the imports.
You know some unsatisfied Saturn customers?? I'd love to have their email addresses!!! I've personally never met an unsatisfied Saturn owner, are you sure it's possible. I mean considering they've held the #1 spot in customer satisfaction for the last 10 years and all. Really crazy too!!!! I've never met an unsatisfied Lexus or Infiniti owner either, and they are rated 2nd and 3rd!!
Also what problems did the Saturn owners experience? It's not very clear in your paragraph. Maybe you should read it again and see if you can get it right with a repost. I've personally met around 6 current or former Saturn owners, if I even thought about telling them that their cars were junk or weren't any good I'd better be carrying a 357 Magnum for protection.
Also by the way, if you look at CR you can see that the S series Saturns have held above average reliability or higher for the last ten years. Now look at the Honda Odyssey, VW Jetta, Mitsubishi all makes, Isuzu all makes, Audi all makes, Mazda Tribute and Millenia, I think you'll find that they hold a below average reliability score.
Oh well as you said earlier, I can't afford an Import until they are actually as cheap or as reliable as a Domestic. Well is that a generalized statement or what.....
If you are happy with Hondas, great.. enjoy. My experience has generally been high prices and dealer arrogance. Lots of brands out there that are almost as reliable, much less expensive and have dealers that are much better to deal with. I don't really care about resale as I usually drive cars into the ground. I generally like the 02 CRV and there is no doubt it's a good truck. What bothers me is you prejudging the VUE based on your experience with a totally different vehicle 8 years ago. Yes no doubt a bad experience will do that, but try and be a little more objective and a little less of a Honda cheerleader.
Leaks (body, engine, transmission), noise, lousy build quality, no bargain prices (worse than Honda Dealers), poor seats, rough ride, poor paint, erratic and noisy windshield wipers (a big deal in the rainy NW) and for most of us, a lack of resale value. I usually run cars to about 100K and trade/sell them as my wife commutes 120 miles per day and I like to keep her in a reliable vehicle. We also do the required maintenance and make it a practice to change oil/filter at 3000 mile intervals. Our experience with Saturn was a very costly mistake that we are not likely to repeat. Of the Hondas, Toyotas, Mazdas and Volkswagens that we have owned we have never had a major breakdown or been stranded by any one of them. The only warranty work I can recall on them was a water pump replacement at 30K on a 96 Camry when it was in for service and the dealer took care of it. Maybe we got a "Monday Morning" Saturn or just a plain lemon but why take the chance again? In 40 years of car buying, I have paid MSRP for only 2 vehicles, a 94 Saturn and my CRV. From what I am seeing on other boards regarding our area (Pacific Northwest) we did well to do that. All the Hondas and Toyotas have been bought for well below MSRP. Our 99 Accord EX was purchased December 98 for $500 over invoice. I have never encountered "arrogance" at any Honda dealers but one needs to approach them realizing they have an excellent product and don't have to give it away. As for the VUE and those who buy them, I wish them luck and nothing would please me more than to see it become a real competitor against the imports.
gm litogation - - I wouldn't personally tell anyone his vehicle is junk but if asked or posting on a forum, that is a wide open door to express opinions or relate experiences. As for this board, it asks which is better............CRV or VUE. Well, I am entitled to my opinion as are you and everyone else out there with a keyboard and modem and I happen to think that the CRV will prove out to be the more reliable and desirable vehicle. End of Story.
Last time I checked people were still waiting months to get a CRV at MSRP while Saturn Vues are sitting on the lots.Now that gas is rapidly approaching $2 a gallon a V6 may not be the car of choice.I may be wrong because I see a lot of Toyota Sequoias on the road.I am a granpa and most of the time it's just me in the car.If I had kids and the money I would get a big Sequoia or Suburban to be safe.
As you have said you are certainly entitled to your own opinion. However, its obvious from reading your posts that you are totally and completely biased against anything that isn't Honda. This is ok - but recognize that your opinion means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone here because you are not objective - and are carrying baggage around from 1994.
Lots of people have had problems with Hondas. I am one of them. Our secretary just needed to replace the tranny at 50K miles in her 1999 Accord last week! Fortunately she had purchased an extended warrenty. On the other hand - lots of people have had trouble free experiences with Saturns. I am one of them.
I am objective I realize that no car manufacturer can produce a perfect vehilce 100% of the time.
One thing I take exception to is you claiming the L series does not measure up to the Accord. Oh really? I have driven them back to back to see how they compared. Almost identical in power, handling, and smoothness. The first block of L series made was pretty awful for fit and finish. 3 months later things had changed dramatically. Today the L has actually surpased the Accord for inital build quality according to JD Powers with fewer intial defects. How do they hold up? I just drove a 2000 with about 60K on it. Tight as a drum - no squeaks - shakes - rattles - NOTHING. 2000 was the worst model year by far. Does the Accord have better resale value? Yup! Does that make it a better buy? Maybe - depends on the specific situation.
So back to the topic at hand - personally I have not driven a 2002 CRV - so I am not in a position to compare. I can tell you that the VUE is very nice, ,but not perfect. Overall what I have heard from people who ARE objective is that the two vehicles are very close in many ways. The VUE has a little more power - the CRV has a little more space - the CRV has slightly better handling - the VUE has polymer panels. I could go on but whats the point? My point is unless you are going to be objective you may as well not post here because anyone with intelligence will ignore your biased and unfounded opinion.
Well, it is a comparison topic - seems to me that people are expressing opinions and often are relying on personal experience. Nothing wrong with that.
I've been holding a grudge against Volvo's since 1974 so relying on a '94 problem is certainly understandable to me.
Carry on... Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Everything you have written has been anti-Saturn, pro Honda. You have not said one objective thing in this thread. Go back and read your own posts. I think you need to refresh you memory.
Hey, did you hear that based on the success of its joint venture with Toyota, GM has signed up with Honda to co-product a new suv? It's called the CR-VUE.
Seems Dindak and crew are not opposed to banter and discussion as long as everyone agrees with them. Different strokes for different folks is the rule to follow here I reckon. I have been called a "Honda Snob" labeled as biased, not-objective and a few other things. I shall leave you fine gentlemen now as Dindak said, not much point in continuing. As far as being pro-Honda, yes I am as a result of my personal experiences. I spent six months reading posts and looking at differenct vehicles giving the Suzuki XL7 a long look. The Buick Rondevous was interesting and has some real potential. The Chevy Trailblazer and Ford Escape both held some interest but didn't fit my needs. The CRV will be a daily work vehicle for me and will serve as a"dinghy" behind our Motor Home. I place Toyota and Honda products at the same level, once again as a result of personal experience but the RAV4 was too cramped and this stodgy old fellow couldn't handle the edgy styling but the Hilander (first choice by the way) was about $5000 more than I was willing to pay. I had some initial interest in the Saturn because of the traditional flat tow with an automatic transmission capability and visited a Saturn dealership but didn't see enough change to warrant further interest. This has been enjoyable experience for me and I sincerely apologize to those who may have been offended. Continue on gentlemen and once again, I wish you well with your Saturns.
Comments
As to the CRV vs. the Vue, the differences are negligible. You can compare them straight down the line. One has this. The other has that. One has more of this. The other has more of that. Quite honestly, the differences people talk about on this board are either simply a matter of opinion or are so negligible as to not make a "real world" difference. Honestly, if you want to know which is better, you should test driving both models and research them widely. That's what I did. There are plenty of articles made up of not only opinions but fact, all over the net. Read them and take a look at what you consider important in a vehicle and make the decision!
Lastly, as to customer satisfaction, you won't find it better than at Saturn. While there are exceptions and I am sure there are a few dissatisfied Saturn owners, you will be hard-pressed to find a better customer experience (not just at the point of sale but throughout ownership). DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS! Look around on the net. Go to epinion, edmunds, saturnalia and other sites where owners congregate.
Good luck in your decision and Happy hunting.
Jeez I guess no one pays attention to me cause they instantly think I'm going to be GM biased....
But to be honest, aside from the initial tussle over the sale I only return to my VW dealer every 5 months for an oil and filter. And their service dept is great.
As I stated in an earlier post, there are legions of happy Saturn owners and I speak only from personal experience and observations. I went to the dealer and looked at the LS model prior to purchase of a Honda Accord and there was really no basis for comparison. Compared to other domestic models, the Saturn doesn't come off too badly but against Japanese or European makes they are sadly lacking. If one looks at the finish, paint and fit of the body panels, drives it and listens to the body creaks and groans, the noisy engines and compares the miserable seats with those of an Accord or Camry the differences become very apparent. I may have bought from a poor dealership but "once bitten twice shy". I hope people buy lots of Saturns, makes my Hondas just that much more appealing when it comes time to off them. I think many repeat Saturn customers are there because no one else will take them on trade. I couldn't get low book (Edmunds) for mine on trade even for a lowly Nissan pickup. (The old "hard body" style). There is something rather unappealing about a new auto that has water leaks. Hadn't experienced that since a 1957 Dodge. The worst part was the dealer telling me that it was just Saturn and to park it when it rains hard.
I can't speak for your Saturn dealer, but statistically it is clearly an anomaly as Saturn dealers generally go out of their way to make the customer happy. Saying that people only buy Saturns again because no one else will take the trade is ridiculous! You are sounding like a typical Honda snob and if you are one, then obviously there is no point in discussing any further with you.
Thanks.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Unfortunately I needed a vehicle so I had to buy, so now myself and all the others get to be the test subjects---I didn't realize that's what I was signing up for so I am not happy.
Subaru Forester is a good alternative. Their new model is coming later in the Spring though, so..... Other Subarus as well should be considered, they're the AWD champs in my eyes.
newautobuyer : Check out the VUE forum. Buyers so far seem happy.
And as to Saturn taking care of first year problems better than any other manufacturer, I don't see what difference it would make. If the vehicle has bugs to work out, nobody except the Engineering staff can help.
Also, more importantly, go down to the dealer and drive these machines.See what YOU like, not what everyone else likes.
TIMZ58: You sound bitter about your buying experience of a first year SL-1. Since this is a Vue v. CRV board and your message talks about neither, I think you are better off visiting the boards of the vehicles you wish to discuss. In other words, your opinion on the SL-1 has no bearing here. Let's get back to talking about CRV's and Vue's. And let's talk about them with intelligent, thought-out information or opinions instead of sniping about old news. It's like discussing Firestone and Ford-It has no place on this board.
Tidester: Aren't you supposed to keep the discussions to the topic? TIMZ is talking about a completely different model.
Also you have to keep in mind that if you do have any problems with your Saturn, VUE, LS, or SL Saturn is ready and willing to bend over backwards and get you going again. I know because my Grandmother has an SL2 and she had a minor problem with her seat adjustment lever, it was really her fault, but Saturn got her fixed up really fast, no charge. Other than that and her regular free car washes and maintenance I can't really say too much about the service.
But she tells me it's great, and she was really impressed with how nice all those young people are up there at Saturn.
Brand loyalty and quality are two very significant factors in the selection of vehicles. If you had bothered to read the posts, I had a 1994 SL2, not an SL1 nor a 1st year model. I recently purchased a 2002 CRV EX after careful research and consideration of the following vehicles: Jeep Liberty and Cherokee; Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute; Nissan Xterra, Suzuki XL7, Subaru Outback; Passat 4motion wagon; Chevrolet Trailblazer/GMC Envoy and Toyota Hilander. I visited the Saturn dealership in an attempt to include all possible vehicles and didn't see much improvement in quality control/fit and finish from the 94 SL2, thus eliminating the VUE from realistic consideration. And yes to Dindak, I am a "Honda Snob". Any vehicle that provides the market value, quality, reliability and resale that their products do will earn my business. I would truly love to find a domestic product that provides the same quality as the Hondas. To the happy Saturn owners that may have been offended, I apologize but make no excuses for my comments regarding the quality of the vehicles and service from the dealer. Further, if you don't like the posts, don't read 'em.
timz58 : Well now that you have admitted to being a Honda snob, we all know where what angle comments are coming from. Keep in mind your experience is not everyone elses.
artdecho : Ya Honda has used CVTs in the past I think. Not sure if any current models use them. Saturn clearly picked the wrong company to supply them. Glad I didn't order one, God only knows when I would ever get it.
Has GM actually released information on why the VUE CVT isn't available or do we only have speculation?
It comes with the territory - discussions will always drift from the prescribed topic. As long as it's not too far off-topic and not for too long then it's within reason and acceptable. Obviously, it would be over the line if the discussion here drifted onto Mercedes Benz or Krispy Kremes for more than a few posts!
Anyway, the topic IS ... drumroll ... Honda CR-V vs. Saturn Vue!
tidester
Host
SUVs
I thought the cv transmission was coming from Hungary. Whatever.
What saturn has said is that some of the parts of the system did not meet spec. This is a realistic scenario, but it's impossible to tell what's really going on with it. I wonder how seriously GM is thinking about ditching it and going with the set up already available in other saturns.
I thought the only car with a cvt that sold in any real volume was the subaru justy, not exactly a big car.
tidester : Mmmm Krispy Kreme. Mmmm donuts.
maynardf1 : You may be right actually. I think it is Hungary. Clearly Saturn should reconsider the whole CVT thing if it isn't resolved for the 2003 model. Saturn also needs to ramp up production as there isn't much supply around. Local dealer has only 1 base 5-speed on the lot aside from the owner's V6.
That said, there is still a significant difference between long term reliability between the Japanese, European, and American product lines. Statistics show that it isn't as big as it was a decade ago, but the US still has a way to go.
I'm generally against comparing manufacturer reputations, though. The L series might be the worst vehicle on the road. What does that have to do with the VUE? We don't compare the performance of an S2K with a CR-V because they are completely different designs. Why would we compare their reliability? The obvious answer is, we shouldn't!
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/detnews/?
tf=/index.tmpl&act=display&srv=parser&sf=
/default_frameset.tmpl
(remove the spaces from the link, or go to Det.News/Cars.com & search fro VUE articles.
btw, dindak, saw 4-5 Vue's @ Yonge & Steeles Saturn dealer....looked like all were V6's though.
I don't think that we should fault Saturn for this, they could've just thrown it out into the market and then let us worry about. You know like Microsoft.
I would say, "like Ford".
The CVT isn't a problem from a reliability point of view (pardon the pun). It's a problem because it limits the customer on what they can purchase. Currently, the only way to get AWD is to buy a V6. I think that sales of the CR-V, Forester, and RAV4 have pretty well shown there is a strong market for the economical four banger models. While the V6 version is a nice vehicle, it raises the cost considerably.
That's why it's a problem for the consumer.
I mean think about it this way, with FWD you almost always have a pretty good amount of traction. I drove my Aurora in the snow and ice recently, granted it is equipped with ABS, traction control, and PCS it performed extraordinarily well. It was like driving in rain. It gave me confidence that no other car has ever given me, not even my old 4x4 Chevy truck was as sure footed.
varmit : With gas prices on the rise again, fuel economy is becoming more of an issue with more people. Gas is up about 15% in the last 2-3 weeks here.
artdecho : Some of the V6 models I've seen are pretty pricey if you add too many options. Still, I'm surprised there are that many as none of the dealers on the west end have more than 1 or 2.
One of these days they may come begging for business and it will be my pleasure to tell them what they can do with it.
Opinions about whether one vehicle is better than another are obviously sibjective and will be deeply influenced by personal experience. My personal experience with Honda has been outstanding. I was a boilerplate GM fan until I bought my first one, a used 87 Accord with 100K + miles. Did the necessary maintenance and drove it trouble free for another 100K and sold it for 3/4 of what I paid. I have personally known 5 other Saturn owners that experienced similar problems. Most of them had better luck getting the problems taken care of with the exception of the leaks but overall were very glad to see the cars gone. Should the Vue prove to be a better vehicle than my CRV, I am willing to eat a lot of crow, but the chances of that are slim and none. The biggest difference is that Honda seems to be able to solve those 1st year glitches quickly whereas domestic manufacturers have trouble doing that. My vehicles get a lot of miles on them and must be available at not at the dealer for repair/adjustment constantly. Our 99 Accord just rolled over 80K miles virtually trouble free with only routine maintenance. My mechanic loves Saturns (lots of bucks for repairs) and hates Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans because of the loss of revenue. The quality of domestics has improved markedly over the last decade but the imports and foreign based marques seem to stay ahead of the game in sales and owner loyalty. They have to be doing something right. For those that buy Saturn or other US made brands, bless you for supporting the economy etc............but I can't afford them until they come up to the same quality as the imports.
Also what problems did the Saturn owners experience? It's not very clear in your paragraph. Maybe you should read it again and see if you can get it right with a repost. I've personally met around 6 current or former Saturn owners, if I even thought about telling them that their cars were junk or weren't any good I'd better be carrying a 357 Magnum for protection.
Also by the way, if you look at CR you can see that the S series Saturns have held above average reliability or higher for the last ten years. Now look at the Honda Odyssey, VW Jetta, Mitsubishi all makes, Isuzu all makes, Audi all makes, Mazda Tribute and Millenia, I think you'll find that they hold a below average reliability score.
Oh well as you said earlier, I can't afford an Import until they are actually as cheap or as reliable as a Domestic. Well is that a generalized statement or what.....
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/01/25/dealers.htm
Have a nice day!!!!!!!
It's called satire and sarcasm, two things I really love!
gm litogation - - I wouldn't personally tell anyone his vehicle is junk but if asked or posting on a forum, that is a wide open door to express opinions or relate experiences. As for this board, it asks which is better............CRV or VUE. Well, I am entitled to my opinion as are you and everyone else out there with a keyboard and modem and I happen to think that the CRV will prove out to be the more reliable and desirable vehicle. End of Story.
months to get a CRV at MSRP while Saturn Vues are sitting on the lots.Now that gas is rapidly
approaching $2 a gallon a V6 may not be the car of choice.I may be wrong because I see a lot of
Toyota Sequoias on the road.I am a granpa and most
of the time it's just me in the car.If I had kids
and the money I would get a big Sequoia or
Suburban to be safe.
All Saturns suck, the VUE sucks. Honda rules. CR-V is the best.
Your experience must be the same as everyone elses. I have seen the light, thank you.
Never asked for an argument or said that all Saturns suck. Grow up!!
Lots of people have had problems with Hondas. I am one of them. Our secretary just needed to replace the tranny at 50K miles in her 1999 Accord last week! Fortunately she had purchased an extended warrenty. On the other hand - lots of people have had trouble free experiences with Saturns. I am one of them.
I am objective I realize that no car manufacturer can produce a perfect vehilce 100% of the time.
One thing I take exception to is you claiming the L series does not measure up to the Accord. Oh really? I have driven them back to back to see how they compared. Almost identical in power, handling, and smoothness. The first block of L series made was pretty awful for fit and finish. 3 months later things had changed dramatically. Today the L has actually surpased the Accord for inital build quality according to JD Powers with fewer intial defects. How do they hold up? I just drove a 2000 with about 60K on it. Tight as a drum - no squeaks - shakes - rattles - NOTHING. 2000 was the worst model year by far. Does the Accord have better resale value? Yup! Does that make it a better buy? Maybe - depends on the specific situation.
So back to the topic at hand - personally I have not driven a 2002 CRV - so I am not in a position to compare. I can tell you that the VUE is very nice, ,but not perfect. Overall what I have heard from people who ARE objective is that the two vehicles are very close in many ways. The VUE has a little more power - the CRV has a little more space - the CRV has slightly better handling - the VUE has polymer panels. I could go on but whats the point? My point is unless you are going to be objective you may as well not post here because anyone with intelligence will ignore your biased and unfounded opinion.
Class dismissed
I've been holding a grudge against Volvo's since 1974 so relying on a '94 problem is certainly understandable to me.
Carry on...
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Everything you have written has been anti-Saturn, pro Honda. You have not said one objective thing in this thread. Go back and read your own posts. I think you need to refresh you memory.
It's called the CR-VUE.