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Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

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Comments

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I remember a couple of years ago a friend leaned on the hood of a Civic in a parking lot and dented it permenantly. I don't know that all Hondas are like that, but they aren't built with the same steel that a Buick is that's for sure. I think Honda tries a little to hard to max out gas mileage on same cars at the expense of sheet metal strength.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    http://edmunds.yellowbrix.com/pages/edmunds/Story.nsp?story_id=24653412&ID=edmunds&scategory=Auto&


    Interesting report. Saturn is not only targeting Hondas, they are using Honda parts.

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Actually, that Honda engine deal was announced about a year and a half ago. Honda is supplying engines to GM in return for GM supplying transmissions or something. It's an odd deal and I'm not sure why they did it, but I have a feeling GM may be interested in buying Honda some day.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Yes, I'm aware of the deal. As part of Honda's bid to stay independant, they are selling Accord V-6 engines to GM for both cash and small diesel engines from GM affiliate; Isuzu. I believe Honda has since rejected the diesel engines (because they won't fit under a Honda hood) and has opted to develop their own.


    The news is where GM is using the Honda engines. Until recently, it was not known which GM vehicle would be powered by Honda. Many had suspected that it be used in the VUE itself. Back when the deal was made public, a number of people thought the V-6 might go into the Alero. The 318 is the first use I've seen since deal was done.

  • scnamescname Member Posts: 296
    Sounds like a Vue with 3rd row seats. Original news reports had the Honda v6 going into Vue. Perhaps it didn't make production in time and GM used a standby thingy.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    About engine sharing can be found here :


    http://www.ai-online.com/articles/0901/powerbrokers.asp

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I heard a long time ago the Honda engines were going into a future Saturn crossover type vehicle (not the VUE). The only news here is what that vehicle more specifically is. Sounds like a minivan SUV crossover which sounds cool. I'm sure it won't be cheap though.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Hope that the minivan xover is not a third iteration of Aztek/Rendezvous. GM is notorious for doing that. Oh well, atleast the engine will be nice.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Rendezvous is a really nice vehicle. I took one for a drive when they came out and the 3.4L has decent power. At this point, I am thinking it's out of our price range though.

    02 Aztek is better, but it's still ugly. That said, one can be had for about the same as a midrange Vue.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    I guess I was behind the times with regard to where the honda V-6 is going. The larger VUE was news to me.

    The 318 is supposed to base based on the VUE platform, so it wouldn't be a rebadged Aztec. It does sound like a similar concept, though.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The 3.4/V6 is okay for around town driving, but I have hated it every time I have had a rental GM vehicle with the engine in it for long distance, especially, two-lane highway driving in the desert states.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The 3.4L is in all GM mini vans and the Aztek/ Rendezvous/ Alero/ Grand Am. I think it a power plant that has sufficient power, but not the power many are used to in their cars and SUVs. If you are looking for 0-60 times, the 3.4L is not for you unless you buy an Alero/ Grand Am with it. Personally I want great fuel economy more than I want 0-60 in a van/ SUV, so I'm ok with it.
  • cb70cb70 Member Posts: 226
    US how do you guys think it would stack up against Vue and CRV? I've just read a little about it in the Suv townhall section under X-Trail. Check out the links, I would be much more inclined to buy it over the Vue or CRV, and I'm currently interested in both.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Just got an invite in the mail to attend the launch party of the new CR-V on November 27th at the local dealer. Free food and a gift are an added bonus. I am so there!!

    I hope the Saturn dealership does the same in December. I told the salesman at the dealership to call me as soon as the VUE arrives.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Cb70 - I think that the Xtrail would be great for the American market, but I doubt it'll be here anytime soon. Aside from one remark made by a poster in a forum like this, there has been no discussion about bringing it to N America.

    Dindak - Hey, where's my invite! I need to have words with Honda USA. =)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Call your local dealer and see if they are having a launch party. Free food, gifts (probably a t-shirt) and a chance to win a Honda snow blower. Should be a good time.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Oh, I think they hide when they see me coming. I ask too many questions. =)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Too funny...

    ;-)
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    My first drive in the '02 CR-V.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Dindak - Saw your question in the VUE thread, but I figured the answer belonged here. This is the CR-V's pricing. The destination charge is not included.


    http://www.vtec.net/news/items/894.html

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Link doesn't seem to work. Perhaps I will check kbb.com.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Hmmm... The link still works for me. There's no need to register at this site, so maybe they were just having server difficulties.


    Here's the main news page. The CR-V pricing is near the top of the list.


    http://www.vtec.net/news/

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Worked that time, perhaps the site was down last time.

    Sounds like pricing on the CR-V is very similar to the Vue, though there aren't any details on what is standard equipment.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I just got an e-mail from my local Saturn dealer (Budd's Saturn Saab Isuzu) and he told me they will have a VUE available to see and possibly drive on Thursday all day and Friday morning. I am very excited to say the least. I really hope I can drive it and I will report my findings to everyone here.
  • sdolvensdolven Member Posts: 20
    Does anyone have any info on if and when leather will be offered on the CRV? I know it isn't offered on the VUE for the first model year.....just wondering about the CRV.

    Thanks!
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    In Canada, the new CR-V gets leather. In the USA, it does not. I expect that an SE/LE model will become available in a few years and that will be one of the upgrades.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    the new CRV-EX comes w/leather. The SE version in older style had it.

    Stephen
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    You can always have leather put on after you buy. There are lots of places that will do a real nice job and it will probably cost less than factory leather.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    I had my cow seats done aftermarket. Heated too.

    image

    Read this in the latest AutoWeek. A Saturn fan writes to Saturn Customer Assistance and asks if the Vue can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood between the wheel wells. Saturn's response:


    "I apologize I cannot answer your question. We appreciate your interest in the VUE. However, what you are referring to is not something we would recommend as a repair or modification to your vehicle."

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Leather looks good. What did that cost?
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    The leather seats cost me $595 plus another $100 for the install. It included both armrests (though mine only requires one). The heating units cover the cushion and backrest. There are two hi/lo switches set into the dash. That added another $300 to the cost. Total with taxes was $1,070.

    These seats are real leather, not the faux stuff used on the SE CR-V (which are only leather trimmed). The quality is okay. I like the durability of the hide, but it is not especially soft.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Not bad at all.

    Tested the Vue last week. I will be testing the CR-V next Tuesday.
  • gmusic7gmusic7 Member Posts: 42
    i was at the auto show last night and saw both the cr-v and vue among other vehicles.

    vue- i like the styling and the aggresive looks. it's aggresive but not offensive. there is plenty of room inside for people and stuff. the quality of materials was fine for me. this vue was the "black silver" color awd, 6 cylinder. if saturn can build this car with immediate quality without many recalls, it will sell.

    cr-v - dark green, awd lx model, and the ugly tan colored interior. compared to the vue, it looks more like a tall wagon. it's not as agressive looking as the vue. bigger wheels and tires would definitely help. there is even more room for people and stuff. i don't like the tan interior. it looks "funny"...cheap looking.

    my wife and i are planning to buy a mini-ute next year some time. it comes down to either the cr-v or the vue. the test drive will help the final decision.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Well after my test drive 2 weeks ago of the Vue, I was itching to test the CR-V. Unfortunately the invitation I got from Honda to see it did not include a test drive. I will have to go back and do that another time. Sitting in the 02 CR-V, the space seemed similar to Vue and over all I found the two trucks to be very comparable. That said, the Honda would cost considerably more than the Vue because you can't get a 2WD CR-V. The 4WD Vue is less also, but the price difference would only be C$1000-$1500 from my calculations.

    Anyway, I think the CR-V is out for us. We were looking in the C$25K range and 2WD Vue is right there, a CR-V will be about C$3-4K more.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Saturn has traditionally done very well in the 5 mph bumper tests.


    Here are the old competitors..


    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm


    Notice how well the Escape does compared to the Santa Fe and the Toyota Rav4. The old CRV doesn't do so well either and I don't expect much improvement. I am biased of course :)


    The Liberty was tested as well although the results aren't posted there. I think I can dig up a link on CNN apparently the results weren't too good...

  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I forgot to mention, I do not like the side mounted rear hatch on the CR-V. It has a pop open window on the top, but hatch itself opens sideways.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    dindak.......that's my major beef with the cr-v as well, the side opening tailgate/external spare.
    might be able to live with it, but with an upward opening hatch, the cr-v would be about perfect.
    the latest bumper bash tests are out now...explorer did extemely poor, between 5&6,000 damage.....liberty was also extemely poor with about the same amount of overall damage and $1700 damage to the tailgate alone (no surprise there) because of the external spare. i would imagine the cr-v will suffer a similar fate.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/columns/healey/2001-11-30-vue.htm

    dindak....from the review, looks like you might save a few bucks and stick with the FWD VUE (and buy a good set of snows) as the AWD doesn't seem to be that effective.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Decent article, but I came away much more impressed with the Vue. I will definitely go for the 2WD version if I buy. I drive on the streets of the Toronto are and have no need for any off roading capability. As for snow, I have NEVER been stuck in my car, why would the Vue behave any different than the millions of 2WD vans on the road.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Artdecho - Taking a look at that link, it looks like the CR-V's problem area is the flat frontal barrier, not the back. This is the only test where it scored worse than average. Even with the external spare, the CR-V did better than a number of others. It's at the top of the list for those that have external spares and did better than a number of them which have flat backs. The pole test in particular seems to draw some strong results. The average of the tests puts the CR-V about mid pack. Neither good nor bad. I don't expect a big improvement with the '02 model, but I don't expect anything as bad as the Liberty either.

    Not a bad article for the VUE. Looks like the 4cyl models are a real bargain. Having the 4WD system slow enough to make use of a donut spare is going to be a problem though. The CR-V and Escape have both been bashed for having slow reacting systems, yet each of them requires a full diameter spare. I'll wait to see some actual tests, but, on paper, that doesn't look good.
  • alex17alex17 Member Posts: 35
    Where did you get the leather done?

    That seems like a great price
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    I had it done while at the Mid Atlantic CR-V Meet this past summer. Here's a link with a write up done by the guy who organized the event. The story is about his install, but there's a link to the shop's website. He will ship them to be installed locally.


    http://www.ptcruiserusa.com/hondasuv/crvix/interiormenu/seat/leather_allant.htm


    FWIW, I priced out a few shops up here in the Boston area and most wanted more than $1,000 for just the leather seats (no heaters).

  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    The VUE will only operate in 2WD when you have the donut on. Its rated for 60 MPH and 3000 miles.

    Its not like you are going to be off roading with the VUE anyways so it seems like a good compromise.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Is there something in the spare tire that tells the VUE to shut down the 4X4?

    "It invites skepticism because of its design. Vue runs in front drive normally and activates rear-wheel drive only when the fronts slip. That's similar to what's in Escape and CR-V. Vue requires the fronts to slip quite a bit before the rears get power. Saturn built in that bias so that you could use the dinky-diameter spare tire and not wreck the four-wheel drive." - Healey

    Healey's comments make the VUE system sound like other automatically engaging systems that detect slippage, then engage the rear axle. These systems detect slippage by comparing the speed of the front axle to the speed of the rear axle. If one is going faster than the other, then the car must be slipping. Most the time, this is true.

    The problems come into play when you take sharp corners or mount an odd sized spare. When taking a sharp corner, the front wheels take a different path than the rear wheels. In effect, the rear tires "cut" the corner. This creates a difference in speeds between the front and rear. This is why you can't use a locking or "part-time" system on dry pavement. The system can bind the drivetrain and cause serious damage or excessive wear and tear. When you have a donut tire on the car, the rotation of the smaller diameter tire will be faster to keep up with the larger tires. Again, this creates a difference in axle speeds and the system should engage.

    In order to make this sort of system work, you have to "dumb down" the system a bit. Instead of reacting to any difference in speeds, the Honda system needs a 2-4% or greater difference before it will engage. This prevents the system from fully engaging in tight turns. You cannot use a donut with the CR-V because the system is too sensitive. Healey's remarks make it sound like Saturn has dumbed down the system even farther, so that it can use an odd sized donut.

    The major benefit of having 4WD or AWD is that the car can push forward under slippery conditions. To a lesser extent, it can also prevent the car from sliding sideways if one wheel loses traction. Because of that, there are times when 4WD or AWD will help with handling in poor weather. A reactive 4WD system (like the Escape, CR-V, and VUE) will engage a split second after the slippage. Some say this may be a split second too late. An AWD system can remain engaged all the time. It's proactive against the slippage. So as a general rule, the faster the better.

    Healey's comments make it sound like the VUE is slower than the CR-V and Escape (the Escape uses a full diameter donut). If the system allows for enough of a speed difference to accomodate a donut, then it is going to be slow to react on snow, ice, and wet surfaces.

    So there is potential for this to be a problem. For foul weather, a fast reacting system is better and a full-time AWD system is best. As stated above, the handling benefits can save you from an accident. How big a deal is this? For most folks, it won't be a problem at all. The first benefit of 4WD (forward motion) is taken care of. The handling benefits are not needed as frequently (just go slow and carefully). But there is still that potential for a problem where an AWD might help, a fast reactive system has a chance of helping, but a slow reactive system probably won't help at all.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    If Healey's comment is true, the interesting point is that VUE designers would compromise on AWD system to be able to use donut spare.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Well... Saturn designers put a good deal of effort into making their cars dent resistant and safe from low speed impacts. For that reason, I'm sure they wanted to keep the back end free of a spare tire.

    Keeping that goal in mind, they are stuck with either an inside or under mounted spare. Ford somehow managed to squeeze in a full diameter donut spare. So did Honda with the JDM Fullmark model. I have to assume that something about the Saturn design prevents it. One may not fit with the placement of the gas tank, exhaust, or diffy. The VUE's cargo space is already pretty limited, so using it for a full size spare would be a problem.

    I also have to wonder about cost effectiveness. The Saturn parts bin probably doesn't include a full-size donut. They would have to design and manufacture a new one. Does any other GM vehicle have one?

    It's a bad compromise, IMHO, but I can see how it might be necessary.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Wierd. I just checked the Saturn site. In that sloooowww flash presentation, they list a full-sized spare under the cargo floor. Maybe Healey needs to get his glasses checked?
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Is a 16 inch tire its just not as wide as a full size spare would be.

    As for how well the AWD system works I cannot say having only tested it in very limited application - foward motion in a test track where the front wheels would lose traction and the awd system would kick in to propell the car foward.
  • yachtieyachtie Member Posts: 29
    I just did a price comparison between the Vue and CRV.The base model Vue in 4cyl AWD cvt tranny is CAD25955 incl frt/pdi.the CRV in base (LX) form is 28814 incl frt and pdi. HOWEVER the CRV includes p mirrors,P windows,cruise,P door locks,outside temp gauge, cd/radio CASSETTE, 4 wheel disks and ABS.Plus the table, of course!

    A closer comparison is made if you compare the EX ( CDN edition) with the VUE and include the alloys and power package plus a 6cd changer.
    The VUE then comes to CAD30260 against the CRV CAD30614. These 2 vehicles are pretty comparable , features-wise , the CRV still having 4 wheel disks though.

    A further consideration is that with Saturn the price U see is the price U pay. Possibility of a couple of thousand off the CRV in a couple of months.

    The point I am making is that although the VUE seems to be more of a bargain on paper it may not be when everything is taken into account.

    Yachtie
This discussion has been closed.