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Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE
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Interesting report. Saturn is not only targeting Hondas, they are using Honda parts.
The news is where GM is using the Honda engines. Until recently, it was not known which GM vehicle would be powered by Honda. Many had suspected that it be used in the VUE itself. Back when the deal was made public, a number of people thought the V-6 might go into the Alero. The 318 is the first use I've seen since deal was done.
http://www.ai-online.com/articles/0901/powerbrokers.asp
02 Aztek is better, but it's still ugly. That said, one can be had for about the same as a midrange Vue.
The 318 is supposed to base based on the VUE platform, so it wouldn't be a rebadged Aztec. It does sound like a similar concept, though.
I hope the Saturn dealership does the same in December. I told the salesman at the dealership to call me as soon as the VUE arrives.
Dindak - Hey, where's my invite! I need to have words with Honda USA.
;-)
http://www.vtec.net/news/items/894.html
Here's the main news page. The CR-V pricing is near the top of the list.
http://www.vtec.net/news/
Sounds like pricing on the CR-V is very similar to the Vue, though there aren't any details on what is standard equipment.
Thanks!
Stephen
Read this in the latest AutoWeek. A Saturn fan writes to Saturn Customer Assistance and asks if the Vue can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood between the wheel wells. Saturn's response:
"I apologize I cannot answer your question. We appreciate your interest in the VUE. However, what you are referring to is not something we would recommend as a repair or modification to your vehicle."
These seats are real leather, not the faux stuff used on the SE CR-V (which are only leather trimmed). The quality is okay. I like the durability of the hide, but it is not especially soft.
Tested the Vue last week. I will be testing the CR-V next Tuesday.
vue- i like the styling and the aggresive looks. it's aggresive but not offensive. there is plenty of room inside for people and stuff. the quality of materials was fine for me. this vue was the "black silver" color awd, 6 cylinder. if saturn can build this car with immediate quality without many recalls, it will sell.
cr-v - dark green, awd lx model, and the ugly tan colored interior. compared to the vue, it looks more like a tall wagon. it's not as agressive looking as the vue. bigger wheels and tires would definitely help. there is even more room for people and stuff. i don't like the tan interior. it looks "funny"...cheap looking.
my wife and i are planning to buy a mini-ute next year some time. it comes down to either the cr-v or the vue. the test drive will help the final decision.
Anyway, I think the CR-V is out for us. We were looking in the C$25K range and 2WD Vue is right there, a CR-V will be about C$3-4K more.
Here are the old competitors..
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm
Notice how well the Escape does compared to the Santa Fe and the Toyota Rav4. The old CRV doesn't do so well either and I don't expect much improvement. I am biased of course
The Liberty was tested as well although the results aren't posted there. I think I can dig up a link on CNN apparently the results weren't too good...
might be able to live with it, but with an upward opening hatch, the cr-v would be about perfect.
the latest bumper bash tests are out now...explorer did extemely poor, between 5&6,000 damage.....liberty was also extemely poor with about the same amount of overall damage and $1700 damage to the tailgate alone (no surprise there) because of the external spare. i would imagine the cr-v will suffer a similar fate.
dindak....from the review, looks like you might save a few bucks and stick with the FWD VUE (and buy a good set of snows) as the AWD doesn't seem to be that effective.
Not a bad article for the VUE. Looks like the 4cyl models are a real bargain. Having the 4WD system slow enough to make use of a donut spare is going to be a problem though. The CR-V and Escape have both been bashed for having slow reacting systems, yet each of them requires a full diameter spare. I'll wait to see some actual tests, but, on paper, that doesn't look good.
That seems like a great price
http://www.ptcruiserusa.com/hondasuv/crvix/interiormenu/seat/leather_allant.htm
FWIW, I priced out a few shops up here in the Boston area and most wanted more than $1,000 for just the leather seats (no heaters).
Its not like you are going to be off roading with the VUE anyways so it seems like a good compromise.
"It invites skepticism because of its design. Vue runs in front drive normally and activates rear-wheel drive only when the fronts slip. That's similar to what's in Escape and CR-V. Vue requires the fronts to slip quite a bit before the rears get power. Saturn built in that bias so that you could use the dinky-diameter spare tire and not wreck the four-wheel drive." - Healey
Healey's comments make the VUE system sound like other automatically engaging systems that detect slippage, then engage the rear axle. These systems detect slippage by comparing the speed of the front axle to the speed of the rear axle. If one is going faster than the other, then the car must be slipping. Most the time, this is true.
The problems come into play when you take sharp corners or mount an odd sized spare. When taking a sharp corner, the front wheels take a different path than the rear wheels. In effect, the rear tires "cut" the corner. This creates a difference in speeds between the front and rear. This is why you can't use a locking or "part-time" system on dry pavement. The system can bind the drivetrain and cause serious damage or excessive wear and tear. When you have a donut tire on the car, the rotation of the smaller diameter tire will be faster to keep up with the larger tires. Again, this creates a difference in axle speeds and the system should engage.
In order to make this sort of system work, you have to "dumb down" the system a bit. Instead of reacting to any difference in speeds, the Honda system needs a 2-4% or greater difference before it will engage. This prevents the system from fully engaging in tight turns. You cannot use a donut with the CR-V because the system is too sensitive. Healey's remarks make it sound like Saturn has dumbed down the system even farther, so that it can use an odd sized donut.
The major benefit of having 4WD or AWD is that the car can push forward under slippery conditions. To a lesser extent, it can also prevent the car from sliding sideways if one wheel loses traction. Because of that, there are times when 4WD or AWD will help with handling in poor weather. A reactive 4WD system (like the Escape, CR-V, and VUE) will engage a split second after the slippage. Some say this may be a split second too late. An AWD system can remain engaged all the time. It's proactive against the slippage. So as a general rule, the faster the better.
Healey's comments make it sound like the VUE is slower than the CR-V and Escape (the Escape uses a full diameter donut). If the system allows for enough of a speed difference to accomodate a donut, then it is going to be slow to react on snow, ice, and wet surfaces.
So there is potential for this to be a problem. For foul weather, a fast reacting system is better and a full-time AWD system is best. As stated above, the handling benefits can save you from an accident. How big a deal is this? For most folks, it won't be a problem at all. The first benefit of 4WD (forward motion) is taken care of. The handling benefits are not needed as frequently (just go slow and carefully). But there is still that potential for a problem where an AWD might help, a fast reactive system has a chance of helping, but a slow reactive system probably won't help at all.
Keeping that goal in mind, they are stuck with either an inside or under mounted spare. Ford somehow managed to squeeze in a full diameter donut spare. So did Honda with the JDM Fullmark model. I have to assume that something about the Saturn design prevents it. One may not fit with the placement of the gas tank, exhaust, or diffy. The VUE's cargo space is already pretty limited, so using it for a full size spare would be a problem.
I also have to wonder about cost effectiveness. The Saturn parts bin probably doesn't include a full-size donut. They would have to design and manufacture a new one. Does any other GM vehicle have one?
It's a bad compromise, IMHO, but I can see how it might be necessary.
As for how well the AWD system works I cannot say having only tested it in very limited application - foward motion in a test track where the front wheels would lose traction and the awd system would kick in to propell the car foward.
A closer comparison is made if you compare the EX ( CDN edition) with the VUE and include the alloys and power package plus a 6cd changer.
The VUE then comes to CAD30260 against the CRV CAD30614. These 2 vehicles are pretty comparable , features-wise , the CRV still having 4 wheel disks though.
A further consideration is that with Saturn the price U see is the price U pay. Possibility of a couple of thousand off the CRV in a couple of months.
The point I am making is that although the VUE seems to be more of a bargain on paper it may not be when everything is taken into account.
Yachtie