I also was very impressed with the VUE I am also looking at the Honda CRV and find the bidding was terrible. Wish I knew more about the long term track record of the 4 cylinder.(the 6 cylinder is sweet but $25000 is out of my price range)The handling and ride is superb in the Vue. The CRV is also very nice for a 4 cylinder. Probably need a 5 speed for these 4 cylinders. Anyone know about the ecotec 4 cylinder??? any help appreciated
So when people say that "the VUE was by far the most comfortable, rode and handled the best and definately (sic) the quietest (sic)" we have to assume this is their opinion, correct?
Just like it is my opinion that the CR-V is by far the best of these three, correct?
I've driven both and I think they are about equal. Each has it's pluses and minuses. I would recommend either to a friend. Also think the Escape/Tribute is a very good truck.
The only reason I have eliminated the CR-V is they don't offer a 2WD version in Canada and I don't want to pay the extra cost, insurance and gas for AWD I don't need.
Have you checked on the difference in premium for 2WD vs. 4WD? I was pleasantly suprised how low the insurance is on my 4WD.
It seems like we should live in each other's country. I would have loved to have bought the EX-L available in Canada, while you probably would like the 2WD LX we have in the States.
I got a quote from another insurance company web site (as mine doesn't have one that gives instant quotes) and they quoted $10/mo extra for AWD vs 2WD. I'm not sure if mine would do the same, but I really don't need AWD regardless. It's funny how they don't make everything available in each country. Seems silly to me.
I drove the Vue V6 and found it noisy (tires) but if you look at the details the quality is not what you expect for $25000.I think the Santa Fe is higher quality but slower.I set a goal of no more than $23000.I almost got an Escape but the rough ride and quality stopped me.My dream would have been a Highlander Limited but way too expensive.So it was between the Santa Fe and CRV. I chose CRV for better performance and versatility.The only bad thing so far is the prices are msrp+.I may be weird but I think the CRV engine is nicer to view than the others.I am a car loving,tinkering fool.
I've read through this entire topic, and I've pretty much decided that these vehicles are very comparable and really about the same. I think either is a really good vehicle. Here's what I think, both are going to be very reliable, both are economical, both do the things they are intended to do very well and will probably do these things well for a really long time.
Although Honda is working on customer and dealer satisfaction issues, Saturn has perfected it. As a customer I would like to be satisfied and happy with my purchase. To give you an idea what kind of satisfaction you will receive with a Saturn here's an interesting article. It talks about how Honda and Toyota are dilligently working on their satisfaction issues, but if you scroll down you will see that Saturn is #1! They beat out everyone including Lexus.
If I were buying, which I'm not, I'd have to get the Saturn.
With all due respect to your opinion - sluggish compared to what? The X5?
The VUE even though it does not have the highest HP and Torque ratings is the fastest in every important* acceleration tests amoungst mini SUVs except 0-30. 0-60 - 0-100 - 1/4 mile - 50-70
tomsr : I think the 4 cyl VUEs are a better value for the dollar. The V6 is a little pricey, but competitive with a V6 Escape. I didn't think the VUE was much noisier than the CR-V. As for pricing, up here a 4WD CR-V will run C$28500 and a similar V6 VUE will run about $1000 more. Very close, but for $1000 more I'd prefer V6 power because I though the CR-V was a bit weak. A 2WD CR-V is not available but would probably be better.
That all said, I am looking at a 4cly VUE which I have still not been able to test.
There was actually a head to head comparison of CR-V, RAV and VUE in the new Popular Science. VUE came out on top with it's CTV 4cyl VUE.
I'm surprised to read that you actually DON'T want a 4WD, given where you live. I have relatives in that part of the country and they actually have a small 4WD as a second car just for the winter. Do you avoid driving when it snows, or do you use some super duper snow tires?
I live in Oakville (west Toronto) and used to live in Kingston. I have never once been stuck in the snow with any vehicle, nor have I skidded off the road ever.
The occational "dumping" of 10-20 cm of snow doesn't seem to stop the millions of 2WD mini vans and cars on the road so why would it stop an SUV?
If I lived up in Sudbury where they get real snow I might consider AWD but here, forget it. A lot of people seem to think they "need it", and while it's nice to have (better than not having it), I don't think most people here really need it at all.
.....maybe they should stick to science as opposed to cars...here are a few "inconsistencies" from their review: calls the Cr-V's interior quirky and the Vue's cavernous but goes on to say the CR-V actually holds 6 cu.ft. more than the Vue. rates their engine/drivetrain the same (13) but calls the CR-V the powerhouse of the group, while saying the VUE's mediocre performance is the only good reason NOT to buy it. .....and if you read between the lines, their advice to "consider" the VUE is because it is available with a V6, not it's CVT/4 combination.
I also test drove CR-V,VUE & others. Let's get real and eliminate others based on reliability & resale. Although decent effort on first go around, Vue comes up short on storage space,utility,handling,noise-yes noise- & power compared to CR-V. Don't let that little 4cyl engine fool you. CR-V test times & real times outdo VUE. I am NOT a dealer,but just a guy who did his homework and read all the OWNER comments on small SUV's. Since discounting is hard to come by on HONDA(I got $300 off) and VUE is MSRP, edge also goes to Honda. Good luck to you all when you try to trade your SATURN in for a HONDA>
Trade in remark a bit of sarcasm. Reliability issues refer to Ford,Mazda,Jeep,Hyundai,GM(except Saturn),Mitsubishi. Can't put Subaru in this mix because Forrester more tall station wagon. VUE has some obvious 1st year issues such as underpowered 4cyl and noisy 6cyl. By the way, I test drove both and 4cyl CR-V outperforms 6cyl VUE. Also,Mag reviews back this up.Although both make use of cheap plastics,VUE gives cheaper impression.CR-V has more cargo space and lastly, a proven track record for SUV. Again good luck with your Saturn and keep us posted.
What performance are you referring to? For towing the V6 will be much better. For 0-60, I don't think the CR-V will be better either, but even if it was, people aren't buying these vehicles for drag racing.
As for the 4 cyl VUE, the only one currently available is a 2WD 5-speed which I have driven and it's extremely peppy, definitely not under powered.
I took lengthy test drives in both the CRV and the VUE.
You could argue the relative merits of one dashboard design (what were they thinking?) over the other, etc.
Bottom line was the CRV remained very underpowered. It was ok 0-30 due to low gearing but after that even stomping on the pedal produced more noise than motion. I felt insecure driving on the highway and trying to cut through traffic with it.
4 or V6. If you're talking about the V6 Vue I can understand, but that's not apples to apples. If you are talking about the 4 cylinders, Saturn must have done a whale of a job as their engine has less HP and torque than the CR-V.
Also, which transmission was in each. I assume that the CR-V was an auto, but perhaps the manual trans. will have a little more pickup and go? I test drove a VUE 5spd manual and was pretty impressed with its overall performance. The clutch felt nice and easy to depress, and while the gearbox was a little clunky, it felt firm and confident. I was able to get good pickup when needed from the 4 cylinder VUE too by downshifting...don't you just love manual transmissions
The 5-speed 4 cyl VUE will surprise you. It's very peppy and the Getrag shifter is nice. Not sure what to expect from the CVT 4cyl., but I've heard it will be very good.
Just test drove 6 cyl Vue again. Better 2nd impression.Now the issue is $2,500 more for the VUE(apples to apples in equipment, except 6cyl) and 1st year production vs track record.Any other input greatly appreciated.Oh, I forgot auto trans.
I won't question the person who test drove the CR-V who found it underpowered. I won't question someone saying the 5 speed 4 cyl Vue is "peppy". But I will gladly pit any Honda 4 cylinder engine against a similar sized 4 banger from GM. Engines are Hondas forte. Even GM knows it.
Honda does engines best. GM does auto-transmissions best.
I agree with you there, overall the Honda engine is superior in terms of power and efficiency. That said the 2.2L Ecotec is one of the better 4 cyl motors out there now.
Interesting. In a comparison with the much ballyhooed V6 Escape, the CR-V (auto) lost to the Escape in acceleration tests to 30, 40, and 50 mph. However, the CR-V made up more than two seconds and got to 60 mph faster (8.9 vs 9.1). That suggests the opposite compared to what was posted above.
Noise, I can easily understand. It is a still a four banger and full throttle will result in a good deal of volume.
Honda has never been known for building great automatics. They're not bad, but they don't set the world on fire. Their manual trannies, on the other hand, are superb. I've only driven the '02 as an automatic, but given the positive press and low 0-60 times, I think it's prett safe to say that the Honda will scoot quite well with a five speed.
We can't compare just the engine, so I assume we mean the 4 cylinder models of each car. What are the criteria? Performance, fuel efficiency, emissions, smoothness, reliability...?
You are all correct to a certain degree. Gas economy aside, I have always liked hONDA CARS(i Also own an Accord V6) but I am trying to justify the price of the VUE 6 auto over the CR-V. Pros: better front layout(gear shifter,emergency brake,armrest),spare storage inside,lift gate,longer wheelbase,polymer side panels,larger wheels. CONS: 1st year,wider turning radius,unknown resale,vs. Honda build quality. Anything else?? I'm still talking $2500 difference when you add sunroof & cd changer & ABS To VUE price.
phillyguy: Honda is also a first year vehicle, though it has evolved from a previous model.
varmit : I like the Saturn Ecotec, but the Honda engine is smoother and more fuel efficient. It's also got a little more power. Reliability will probably be about the same.
Dindak - Do you think that the 4 cyl VUE will run with the V6 version? So far it looks like the CR-V will.
Reliability is pretty much an unknown for the Honda. Generally, it's safe to say that it will be good enough, but it is a brand new engine. Anything could happen. I know that the Ecotec has been used in other cars, but I don't know what it's history is. And I don't know that it has ever pulled anything as heavy as the VUE.
I drove the V6 AWD but thought it was noisy and if you look closely it is crudely built.Lift up the cover over the spare and you will find a lot of styrofoam.For $25000 I expect more.The EX CRV I chose over it is not perfect but it does not yell cheap.If money was no object I would have loved the Highlander Limited.Now that gas prices going sky high I'm glad I don't have a V6.
Anyone here ever driven a V6 model LS Saturn, how about a V6 model VUE? Step on it, you'll be flung in the back seat and get some real acceleration you weren't expecting. Now the secret they aren't telling us. The V6 used in the Saturn is also used throughout the world by Saab, Opel, Holden, and it was in the old Catera. Opel officially rates the engine at 221 horsepower, that's right 40 more horses than what is published by Saturn. Why such the huge difference? Well according to GM the slight change in compression and intake manifold size will produce the loss of horsepower. That's bunk unless you are measuring it at the wheels!
Here you go, one of the fastest Sedans available today for less than $20 large!
Now on to that 4 banger, I rented an LS200 for weekend and it had plenty of power. Not only did it have plenty of power, but it was equipped with really nice auto. I loaded it up with 4 adults, and cargo went 400 miles and it was great! A little wind noise, but I almost fell over when I filled it back up to give it back to the dealer!
Do I think that the 4 cyl VUE will run with the V6 version? No. Like I said the 4 cyl has a little less power than the Honda. The 3.0L V6 has a little more and can tow a lot more. I was only comparing the 4 cyl VUE to the CR-V.
I'm still only considering the V6 VUE if I go with Saturn. How do you think they will compare in resale in 5 years if I keep it that long? I only average 12-14K miles/year and keep my cars in top shape. I wouldn't mind spending the xtra $$$ up front if I get it back on resale. How about 1st year issues on VUE? Hate to beat this to death,but I have been leasing cars for 15 years,and this will be 1st purchase in long while.Honda resale has been excellent so far.
The CRV and the Forester appear to be comparable in driving performance and comfort and were rated highly in Consumer Report. The CRV has the edge right now because it has a larger storage capacity and I can put my road bike in the back. One negative is that the Honda folks don't appear to be too interested in negotiating a price. Has anyone had luck in this area in Missouri?
DINDAK: With interest rates so low and High residuals on in demand vehicles, leasing is not good on these two. Missouri guy: I have 6 dealers within reasonable driving area. Two quoted MSRP and told me no way I can get discount. Two didn't respond to price request. One offered $300 off. Last one offered $500 off and free service rentals. Bought car from last one with no add ons. You just have to be persistant. With competition heating up in this category, Honda dealers will start loosening up. As usual, it's supply & demand. Good luck.
One of the worst experiences I've ever had was a new 94 Saturn SL2. (Second only to an 88 Dodge Shadow) Price was 17K+, slightly more than a well equipped Accord. The Saturn had a number of annoying quirks that we could not get the dealer to address:Erratic windshield wipers; Water Leaks around the doors; A constantly sticky throttle plate: Rough noisy ride; Poor build quality; Noisy brakes; Poor paint quality; Numerous fluid leaks; Constant surging at highway speeds when running on cruise control; Excessive engine noise; The crowning touch was when we finally had enough of it (The car was in excellent shape with no dings dents etc and a clean interior) but couldn't sell it in a private ad for $7000 when 3 years old with 66K miles on it. ...........NO RESALE VALUE!!! The only dealer that would look at it was a Chevy dealer that allowed us $5100 trade on a 17K S-10 pickup. Anyone who even considers a Saturn over a Honda product would be well advised to think long and hard about it. We recently purchased an 02 CRV EX and wouldn't part with it. I realize there are legions of happy Saturn owners but when it comes time to part...............good luck getting rid of that millstone.
Saturns are not your average car. You have to buy into the philosphy as much as the car so it's a smaller subset than people who would look for a Chevy Cavalier or something.
Part of the Saturn advantage is the sales experience. When you buy them used from any old dealer you lose that advantage.
Lastly, Saturn cars really are a step behind. They've always had noisey engines, cheap looking interiors and odd styling. It's the plastic panels and sales experience that really drives them. (Although the VUE and ION are begining to become more appealing).
Maybe it's the area you live in, but around here Saturns have very good re-sale. No, not as good as Honda but Honda is the best in that area.
Saturn dealers are a MUCH better place to do business vs Honda dealers and when it comes down to the VUE vs the CR-V, it a pretty close match up. Obviously you have never driven a VUE and I think you should before putting it down. It is not like a SL2.
Well actually I've test driven a Vue on two different occaisions and in half an hour I will pick up on on an extended 1.5 day loan.
As far as dealerships go, oddly enough I've found the Ford and Chrysler dealers the friendliest. Maybe because they are so desperate for sales. Saturn is good too but they tend to have overly talkative artistic types for sales people, the type you find reading alternative magasines at Starbucks or something. Great for talking about the latest import CDs mind you.
I've found Acuras to be some of the worst dealers to do business with in terms of arrogance.
The engine is rough upon acceleration but it's definately liveable. It's nice and quiet otherwise, especially on the highway. The ride is nice, not as floaty as I first thought.
The interior works well. Quality of switches (especially heater) is rather flimsy but that's a minor thing. The decision to have white needles on a white speedo is idiotic. It took me 30 seconds to find my speed each time. I also found the left rear door panel misaligned just as the other person noted. Room inside is generous except, for me at least, there's a definate lack of shoulder and elbow room. My arm kept banging into the door pilar. That's why I probably won't buy it.
The one true annoyance has been that blasted steering. That was a design goof as far as I can see. It's way too imprecise. I was making constant corrections. Apparently they want to install it in the next generation Grand Am and Malibu too.
Apparently the electric steering saves a fair amount of fuel so it's an efficiency issue. I personally didn't mind it, and perhaps enhancements are coming in the years to come.
It's not just the lack of feel, it's that it's so imprecise. If the car was slightly left and you tried turning the wheel, the force required to turn it going straight was enough to move it to much to the right. It became a battle back and forth.
Well... I've seen a few comments about unfriendly and indifferent Honda dealers. Mine has been exceptional so far (for me and friend who have been customers of this dealer): Barrie Honda in Barrie ON.
One thing I've seen at that dealership I haven't seen anywhere else is that they have a guy that does nothing but deliveries. He takes the time to deliver the car or truck and explain all its features while the salesmen have only to concentrate on their sales job... No hurried delivery there... you get off the lot when you're good and ready - knowing the features of your new vehicle. (I really liked my experience)
There always good and bad, but in general my experience with Honda dealers in the Toronto area has been bad. Arrogant is the first word that comes to mind. They also used to charge me an arm and a leg to service my Civic.
Comments
Just like it is my opinion that the CR-V is by far the best of these three, correct?
The only reason I have eliminated the CR-V is they don't offer a 2WD version in Canada and I don't want to pay the extra cost, insurance and gas for AWD I don't need.
It seems like we should live in each other's country. I would have loved to have bought the EX-L available in Canada, while you probably would like the 2WD LX we have in the States.
what you expect for $25000.I think the Santa Fe
is higher quality but slower.I set a goal of no more than $23000.I almost got an Escape but the rough ride and quality stopped me.My dream would have been a Highlander Limited but way too expensive.So it was between the Santa Fe and CRV.
I chose CRV for better performance and versatility.The only bad thing so far is the
prices are msrp+.I may be weird but I think the CRV engine is nicer to view than the others.I am
a car loving,tinkering fool.
Although Honda is working on customer and dealer satisfaction issues, Saturn has perfected it. As a customer I would like to be satisfied and happy with my purchase. To give you an idea what kind of satisfaction you will receive with a Saturn here's an interesting article. It talks about how Honda and Toyota are dilligently working on their satisfaction issues, but if you scroll down you will see that Saturn is #1! They beat out everyone including Lexus.
If I were buying, which I'm not, I'd have to get the Saturn.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/01/25/dealers.htm
The VUE even though it does not have the highest HP and Torque ratings is the fastest in every important* acceleration tests amoungst mini SUVs except 0-30. 0-60 - 0-100 - 1/4 mile - 50-70
*(as judged by me)
That all said, I am looking at a 4cly VUE which I have still not been able to test.
There was actually a head to head comparison of CR-V, RAV and VUE in the new Popular Science. VUE came out on top with it's CTV 4cyl VUE.
The occational "dumping" of 10-20 cm of snow doesn't seem to stop the millions of 2WD mini vans and cars on the road so why would it stop an SUV?
If I lived up in Sudbury where they get real snow I might consider AWD but here, forget it. A lot of people seem to think they "need it", and while it's nice to have (better than not having it), I don't think most people here really need it at all.
from their review:
calls the Cr-V's interior quirky and the Vue's
cavernous but goes on to say the CR-V actually holds 6 cu.ft. more than the Vue.
rates their engine/drivetrain the same (13) but calls the CR-V the powerhouse of the group, while saying the VUE's mediocre performance is the only good reason NOT to buy it.
.....and if you read between the lines, their advice to "consider" the VUE is because it is available with a V6, not it's CVT/4 combination.
Also, all other small SUVs have bad re-sale and reliability?? Get real!
As for the 4 cyl VUE, the only one currently available is a 2WD 5-speed which I have driven and it's extremely peppy, definitely not under powered.
You could argue the relative merits of one dashboard design (what were they thinking?) over the other, etc.
Bottom line was the CRV remained very underpowered. It was ok 0-30 due to low gearing but after that even stomping on the pedal produced more noise than motion. I felt insecure driving on the highway and trying to cut through traffic with it.
-LL
I agree with you there, overall the Honda engine is superior in terms of power and efficiency. That said the 2.2L Ecotec is one of the better 4 cyl motors out there now.
Noise, I can easily understand. It is a still a four banger and full throttle will result in a good deal of volume.
Honda has never been known for building great automatics. They're not bad, but they don't set the world on fire. Their manual trannies, on the other hand, are superb. I've only driven the '02 as an automatic, but given the positive press and low 0-60 times, I think it's prett safe to say that the Honda will scoot quite well with a five speed.
We can't compare just the engine, so I assume we mean the 4 cylinder models of each car. What are the criteria? Performance, fuel efficiency, emissions, smoothness, reliability...?
Anything else?? I'm still talking $2500 difference when you add sunroof & cd changer & ABS To VUE price.
varmit : I like the Saturn Ecotec, but the Honda engine is smoother and more fuel efficient. It's also got a little more power. Reliability will probably be about the same.
Reliability is pretty much an unknown for the Honda. Generally, it's safe to say that it will be good enough, but it is a brand new engine. Anything could happen. I know that the Ecotec has been used in other cars, but I don't know what it's history is. And I don't know that it has ever pulled anything as heavy as the VUE.
The L series weighs 2989 pounds
The 4 Cyl VUE weighs 3172 pounds
Having driven the 4 cyl manual I would say it has adequate power for the vehicle.
If you want more power you can supercharge it.
yell cheap.If money was no object I would have loved the Highlander Limited.Now that gas prices
going sky high I'm glad I don't have a V6.
Here you go, one of the fastest Sedans available today for less than $20 large!
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/43901/page024.html
Now on to that 4 banger, I rented an LS200 for weekend and it had plenty of power. Not only did it have plenty of power, but it was equipped with really nice auto. I loaded it up with 4 adults, and cargo went 400 miles and it was great! A little wind noise, but I almost fell over when I filled it back up to give it back to the dealer!
That thing got 36mpg!!!!!! no joke!
Missouri guy: I have 6 dealers within reasonable driving area. Two quoted MSRP and told me no way I can get discount. Two didn't respond to price request. One offered $300 off. Last one offered $500 off and free service rentals. Bought car from last one with no add ons. You just have to be persistant. With competition heating up in this category, Honda dealers will start loosening up.
As usual, it's supply & demand.
Good luck.
Saturns are not your average car. You have to buy into the philosphy as much as the car so it's a smaller subset than people who would look for a Chevy Cavalier or something.
Part of the Saturn advantage is the sales experience. When you buy them used from any old dealer you lose that advantage.
Lastly, Saturn cars really are a step behind. They've always had noisey engines, cheap looking interiors and odd styling. It's the plastic panels and sales experience that really drives them. (Although the VUE and ION are begining to become more appealing).
Saturn dealers are a MUCH better place to do business vs Honda dealers and when it comes down to the VUE vs the CR-V, it a pretty close match up. Obviously you have never driven a VUE and I think you should before putting it down. It is not like a SL2.
As far as dealerships go, oddly enough I've found the Ford and Chrysler dealers the friendliest. Maybe because they are so desperate for sales. Saturn is good too but they tend to have overly talkative artistic types for sales people, the type you find reading alternative magasines at Starbucks or something. Great for talking about the latest import CDs mind you.
I've found Acuras to be some of the worst dealers to do business with in terms of arrogance.
The engine is rough upon acceleration but it's definately liveable. It's nice and quiet otherwise, especially on the highway. The ride is nice, not as floaty as I first thought.
The interior works well. Quality of switches (especially heater) is rather flimsy but that's a minor thing. The decision to have white needles on a white speedo is idiotic. It took me 30 seconds to find my speed each time. I also found the left rear door panel misaligned just as the other person noted. Room inside is generous except, for me at least, there's a definate lack of shoulder and elbow room. My arm kept banging into the door pilar. That's why I probably won't buy it.
The one true annoyance has been that blasted steering. That was a design goof as far as I can see. It's way too imprecise. I was making constant corrections. Apparently they want to install it in the next generation Grand Am and Malibu too.
One thing I've seen at that dealership I haven't seen anywhere else is that they have a guy that does nothing but deliveries. He takes the time to deliver the car or truck and explain all its features while the salesmen have only to concentrate on their sales job... No hurried delivery there... you get off the lot when you're good and ready - knowing the features of your new vehicle. (I really liked my experience)
Glad your dealer makes you happy.