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Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE
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"American vehicles are inferior to Japanese" - This is way too broad a statement to be meaningful. Many American cars out rank many Japanese cars in quality and reliability. Even Buick Lesabre is almost on par quality wise with Camry.
I think the new VUE will be very carefully made. Saturn made mistakes with the L-series and they learned their lesson. The VUE is also made in Spring Hill which is also a big plus.
One thing to keep in mind with Saturn is that you have the world's best network of retailers behind you all the way. You can't say that about Honda. As a note, Hondas are not as great as some of you think. The Odyssey had horrendous quality when it was introduced, and the MD-X is looking even worse. I know because I had one a company car and it was a complete disaster. I don't even want to count the number of problems we had with it (some of which were safety related)
I will go with the Saturn. It is larger, more safe, has better features and is more expressively styled.
As for problems, it's true that the Ody was not up to typical Honda standards, however it wasn't any worse than the competition. Regardless this is a CR-V thread. The current model CR-V has been the most reliable SUV on the American market for several years and was recently rated the most reliable vehicle in any class. It has also won a number of quality awards. While I'm sure there will be a few things to take care of with the new model, I would not expect a significant decrease there.
Ford executive tells us what we knew:
""For the first time in the U.S., Toyota [Motor Corp.] has a double-digit lead" in quality, Mr. Scheele said. "Ford is, for the first time, significantly worse than GM or Chrysler," referring to Detroit rivals General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group."
Still, while Ford has succeeded in cost-cutting for years, Mr. Scheele said, "our costs are [now] going up and going up dramatically," attributable in part to growing expenses for sales incentives and other marketing initiatives. The $1,000 per vehicle added on average over the past five years came at a time when new-vehicle prices were falling in the face of intense competition from import rivals. The squeeze has hurt Ford's profit margins and contributed to a deep slide in market share, which Mr. Scheele called "severe damage."
http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB1002143880816296120.htm
The Saturn sport utility vehicle, called VUE, will be another single for GM. It's not ugly, just homely, but might appeal to those customers who like its nonaggressive looks and the Saturn culture. Plus, the market for such vehicles is growing. The Pontiac Vibe (coming in spring) should be a success, a double. Why? It really is a Toyota--Toyota engine, Toyota transmission, Toyota handling, and Toyota quality.
http://www.forbes.com/2001/09/21/0921flint.html
Vue will be a home run unless there is some major screw up in quality control. Even then, it could still be a home run, just look at the Ford Escape.
Saw that Canadian pricing will start around C$22,500. Very competitive and better than I thought it would be. 2WD with CVT looks like it would cost about C$23,800. That's about $1000 less than I thought it would be.
The VUE is supposed to be a make-or-break vehicle for Saturn. If it has any major problems, it's going to cost Saturn big.
there's about a 4k jump from the 4cyl/CVT/AWD to the V6/auto/AWD, which basically means you're paying 4k for the V6, as the costing of the CVT and 5 speed auto should be about the same (maybe the CVT is even more expensive to manufacture).
with V6 libertys, escapes, tributes and santa fe's available for 26-28k, it seems about 2 grand too high.
Funny thing is how Edmunds is usually very high in pricing from what I have seen.
Thus he probably paid too much for his used car.
Whats the moral of this story?
Don't believe everything you read. If that guy writing for Forbes really knew his stuff you can be sure he would be making a lot more money elsewhere.
The new CRV I'm much more worried about as competition. The Ford seems to be shooting for a different type of customer.
Thats why this is such a good topic. The CRV and VUE are going for the same part of the market.
Honda : Honda quality, improved size/ usability/ looks, more proven technology and smooth 4 cyl motor.
Saturn : Saturn service/ buying experience, V6, polymer door panels, great looks and CVT for the 4 cyl.
I think if Saturn doesn't experience any glitches, VUE should be a blockbuster hit. Honda definitely has the quality reputation and proven technology on it's side. The two vehicles will compete with Escape/Tribute big time which is where I disagree with you. There will be a lot of cross shopping. I think RAV-4, Tracker/Vitara, Sportage and a few others will be the big loosers here.
Dindak - I don't think that Saturn has the dealer and manufacturing capacity to make the VUE a "blockbuster hit". At least, not by the standards of the entire motoring industry. A blockbuster for Saturn is very likely, but I have doubts that the sales figures will rival the segment leaders like Ford and Jeep.
P.S. If you ever meet the guy, you'd see his turtle neck sweater's too tight, (yes he wears them everywhere) and has cut off the supply of blood to his head.
"Naturally," he says...
I drive a 2002 Bravada and there is not much difference in size between them which really surprised me, I think Saturn has a hit on there hands....I will keep you updated.
I have driven an L-series V6 and I hated the tan interior color (it looked terrible IMO) and I thought the steering wheel was the ugliest thing ever. I wouldn't buy the car based on those two things alone and it seems the VUE has adopted the steering wheel of the L series, not sure about the interior colors. I am sure someone would get used to those things though.
My sister-in-law has a 94 SL2 and it has performed very well reliability wise and it still looks good. I think Saturn has somewhat of an edge over other GM brands when it comes to reliability and (because of the plastic body) looking good longer. In northern rust belt climates (like mine) that is very important if you plan to keep the vehicle a long time.
But as for the large panel gaps on the Saturn, I was told in another forum that because the panels are made of plastic, it apparently grows and shrinks with the change in temperature.
Although I find it hard that these panels would grow as large as an inch, which is about the size of some of the gaps on Saturn cars.
I noticed the styling problem the first time I saw the vehicle from the side. One of the car mags made reference to it. I believe they remarked that it made it the car look "segmented".
Diploid - True, the Santa Fe's profile is it's best side, but the front and back are just weird.
As for the gaps, they aren't anywhere near an inch like some have eluded to. They are a necessary evil if you want the polymer panels which Saturn doesn't seem to want to let go. I still think the Vue will be the best looking small SUV on the road.
This is an interesting comparison as both manufacturers have very different approaches to body panels. Staturn's gaps are large, but the panels are dent resistent. Honda is well know for having some of the smallest gaps in the industry, but has been criticized for using thin sheetmetal that dents too easily. There's an detailed article at TOV.net about the panels gaps on the new Civic SI.
I was referring to a Saturn that my friend has, I believe it's a 95 L-Series. Yes, it's not exactly an inch, but it sure is very obvious from 10 feet away.
This is the TOV article I mentioned above. Scroll down for the gap information.
http://www.vtec.net/civic/02si/exterior.html