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Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

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Comments

  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    I don't think anyone knows how much the Vue will cost. I read on article that said it would be "under $30K". It better be WELL under $30K! Until we have an opportunity to drive the CR-V or Vue I don't think we can really compare the two. For my needs the CR-V is out of the running because it's lack of towing capacity. At this time the Santa Fe is front runner with Liberty still a consideration (I would have to get a real deal on the price). BTW, American vehicles are inferior to Japanese but they have MUCH better air conditioners.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I'd stay away from Santa Fe. Hyundia quality is better than is was but reliability is way below average. Check the JD Power site.

    "American vehicles are inferior to Japanese" - This is way too broad a statement to be meaningful. Many American cars out rank many Japanese cars in quality and reliability. Even Buick Lesabre is almost on par quality wise with Camry.
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    Name an American vehicle that has better reliability than a Honda. Certainly not a Saturn.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Honda is not the only Japanese manufacturer. It is one of the two best (other being Toyota). The other Japanese makes are all much closer or below American marks in some cases. I know GM as a whole is now on par with Nissan.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Back in the eighties, American manufacturers were seriously behind the Japanese with regard to long term quality and reliability. They have closed that gap and new American cars are about the same as where the Japanese used to be. The trouble is, the Japanese haven't beed sitting back and doing nothing. They have also improved their QC and engineering to a point that surpasses their products from a decade ago. Still, the gap is not what it used to be. The Americans are slowly catching up.
  • gsogymratgsogymrat Member Posts: 97
    Even though the CR-V has been redesigned and is a basically a new model I would not hesitate to buy one. However I don't have the same confidence in buying one from Saturn. If I were to buy a Saturn I would just accept, as I have with other American vehicles I have owned, that it will most likely not be as trouble-free or last as long as the Japanese cars I have owned.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Fair enough. That said, a number of Japanese new models have had more than their share of problems. The Toyota Sequoia and Honda Oydessey. come to mind. Even the new Civic has been recalled already. You always take chances with a new model of any car.

    I think the new VUE will be very carefully made. Saturn made mistakes with the L-series and they learned their lesson. The VUE is also made in Spring Hill which is also a big plus.
  • slovett1slovett1 Member Posts: 5
    I am really excited to get my hands on a VUE. I am confident in Saturn's quality. I have owned two 91 SL's and they have been fantastic (first year built). I sold one with 170,000 miles and my current one has 140,000 miles. I wouldn't hesitate to take either one across the country today. I also own a first year of another American vehicle that has also been terriffic.

    One thing to keep in mind with Saturn is that you have the world's best network of retailers behind you all the way. You can't say that about Honda. As a note, Hondas are not as great as some of you think. The Odyssey had horrendous quality when it was introduced, and the MD-X is looking even worse. I know because I had one a company car and it was a complete disaster. I don't even want to count the number of problems we had with it (some of which were safety related)

    I will go with the Saturn. It is larger, more safe, has better features and is more expressively styled.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    More safe? How do you figure? Larger, yes, but the reviews seem to indicate that it has less interior space. Better features may be true. For example, the new CR-V lacks leather seats, but it's not exactly a stripper model. Styling is any man's game, but the VUE does have a unique look. It's like the new RAV4. Some think it's freakish and others like the edgey style.

    As for problems, it's true that the Ody was not up to typical Honda standards, however it wasn't any worse than the competition. Regardless this is a CR-V thread. The current model CR-V has been the most reliable SUV on the American market for several years and was recently rated the most reliable vehicle in any class. It has also won a number of quality awards. While I'm sure there will be a few things to take care of with the new model, I would not expect a significant decrease there.
  • thornthorn Member Posts: 91
    This from the 10.04.01 WSJ:


    Ford executive tells us what we knew:


    ""For the first time in the U.S., Toyota [Motor Corp.] has a double-digit lead" in quality, Mr. Scheele said. "Ford is, for the first time, significantly worse than GM or Chrysler," referring to Detroit rivals General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group."


    Still, while Ford has succeeded in cost-cutting for years, Mr. Scheele said, "our costs are [now] going up and going up dramatically," attributable in part to growing expenses for sales incentives and other marketing initiatives. The $1,000 per vehicle added on average over the past five years came at a time when new-vehicle prices were falling in the face of intense competition from import rivals. The squeeze has hurt Ford's profit margins and contributed to a deep slide in market share, which Mr. Scheele called "severe damage."



    http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB1002143880816296120.htm

  • thornthorn Member Posts: 91
    OK for those willing to settle for a Saturn:


    The Saturn sport utility vehicle, called VUE, will be another single for GM. It's not ugly, just homely, but might appeal to those customers who like its nonaggressive looks and the Saturn culture. Plus, the market for such vehicles is growing. The Pontiac Vibe (coming in spring) should be a success, a double. Why? It really is a Toyota--Toyota engine, Toyota transmission, Toyota handling, and Toyota quality.


    http://www.forbes.com/2001/09/21/0921flint.html

  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Beat - I have the hardcopy if you want the stats.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    There's nothing new here, but this is another press release for the VUE. Sorry if this has been posted before.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I would stop reading car reviews in business magazines.

    Vue will be a home run unless there is some major screw up in quality control. Even then, it could still be a home run, just look at the Ford Escape.

    Saw that Canadian pricing will start around C$22,500. Very competitive and better than I thought it would be. 2WD with CVT looks like it would cost about C$23,800. That's about $1000 less than I thought it would be.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Yeah, but the Escape has a powerful V-6 as its saving grace. The VUE's V-6 engine is not as strong, plus it really isn't as attractive as the Escape.

    The VUE is supposed to be a make-or-break vehicle for Saturn. If it has any major problems, it's going to cost Saturn big.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I agree. Saturn really needs this truck to sell well. The V6 is not the strongest in class, but that's not everything. People are looking for quality, utility and value in the segment. As long as power is good it should be fine. Pricing seems very good, but it will be interesting to see what is and isn't included in terms of options.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    It's been my experience that buyers in this segment are looking for an economical alternative to a mid-size SUV. They don't need the hulking exterior, the gas guzzling engine, or the $30K price tag. So I agree with Dindak about the V-6. As long as the car will get up and go without too much hassle, then people will buy it. The Ford's V-6 certainly is an advantage, but, in terms of performance, it's overkill.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    ....saw the $canadian pricing the other day and while i don't have the exact figures in front of me, they range from 22-23k for a 4cyl/5-speed FWD to just over 30k for an V6/auto/AWD. the prices see fairly reasonable, save for the V6/auto/AWD.
    there's about a 4k jump from the 4cyl/CVT/AWD to the V6/auto/AWD, which basically means you're paying 4k for the V6, as the costing of the CVT and 5 speed auto should be about the same (maybe the CVT is even more expensive to manufacture).
    with V6 libertys, escapes, tributes and santa fe's available for 26-28k, it seems about 2 grand too high.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The 4 cyl models are C$22,500 for a 5-speed and C$23,800 for the CVT. I heard that the CVT is in fact more pricey to build than a regular automatic. That all said, if it's well made it should give the 4 banger decent and smooth power. The Escape is unavailable with a 4cyl./auto so it's likely going to drop off the shopping list.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Canadian price is just over 26K which includes freight and $100 a/c tax, so assuming it has decent performance/economy, it may be the one to get. just a little nervous about buying new technology (CVT) from GM in first year of production.....as i've said before, they tend to do their "product development" after they've put it on the market and sometimes take 4-5 years to get it right, by which time they have to kill the vehicle because of ever-decreasing sales.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    That a car executive bought a used car using Edmunds. The executive was able to access Edmunds at the dealership. He then told the salesperson he knew their cost on the vehicle - and made them an offer based upon that.

    Funny thing is how Edmunds is usually very high in pricing from what I have seen.

    Thus he probably paid too much for his used car.

    Whats the moral of this story?

    Don't believe everything you read. If that guy writing for Forbes really knew his stuff you can be sure he would be making a lot more money elsewhere.
  • afk_xafk_x Member Posts: 393
    Was very reliable I'm sure. However it is not a car I would ever buy based upon how it sounded while being driven at 65.

    The new CRV I'm much more worried about as competition. The Ford seems to be shooting for a different type of customer.

    Thats why this is such a good topic. The CRV and VUE are going for the same part of the market.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The way I see it here are the main advantages for each :

    Honda : Honda quality, improved size/ usability/ looks, more proven technology and smooth 4 cyl motor.

    Saturn : Saturn service/ buying experience, V6, polymer door panels, great looks and CVT for the 4 cyl.

    I think if Saturn doesn't experience any glitches, VUE should be a blockbuster hit. Honda definitely has the quality reputation and proven technology on it's side. The two vehicles will compete with Escape/Tribute big time which is where I disagree with you. There will be a lot of cross shopping. I think RAV-4, Tracker/Vitara, Sportage and a few others will be the big loosers here.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    afk_x - Yep, they do make an interesting comparison. Saturn targeted the CR-V, but instead of making a copy of it, they designed a very different vehicle. While they are aimed at the same buyers, they go about things in different ways.

    Dindak - I don't think that Saturn has the dealer and manufacturing capacity to make the VUE a "blockbuster hit". At least, not by the standards of the entire motoring industry. A blockbuster for Saturn is very likely, but I have doubts that the sales figures will rival the segment leaders like Ford and Jeep.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Numbers won't make it a top seller, but the 50,000 unit target they set is way too low. From what I have read, they have the capacity to do much more and they will.
  • lbthedoglbthedog Member Posts: 198
    Read the article but first read the byline. This guy has been grumbling since the free shrimp have been cut off. If this guy doesn't like it, it's a sure to be a success.

    P.S. If you ever meet the guy, you'd see his turtle neck sweater's too tight, (yes he wears them everywhere) and has cut off the supply of blood to his head.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "Rick Wagoner, GM chief executive, said the original concept of Saturn as an exclusively small-car company was sound in the late '80s. The assumption was that buyers would naturally move to other GM brands."

    "Naturally," he says...
  • crj1crj1 Member Posts: 70
    Hi everyone....My wife works at GM world headquarters and she "we" have been driving a Saturn Vue for a couple days now to evaluate, she has it for 3 months and has to call in on it every week with any problems, likes, dislikes etc...Its a AWD V6, Gold exterior and pretty well loaded. So far its been a great vehicle, nice interior styling, good room, great power from the engine. I must say that it looks much better in person than in pictures and we have had all kinds of people ask us about it and say that it looks very nice and were surprised that it was a saturn.
    I drive a 2002 Bravada and there is not much difference in size between them which really surprised me, I think Saturn has a hit on there hands....I will keep you updated.
  • shellymeister2shellymeister2 Member Posts: 115
    please go to my post today in the Saturn Vue section of these Town Hall chats...........
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Thanks for the report. How is she finding the V6 power? What do you think of the interior / dash board? The one negative comment seems to be the quality of the dash board materials.
  • vonnyvoncevonnyvonce Member Posts: 129
    Saw the article about the VUE test drive. I question revs at steady 5500, seems crazy high. Not sure that would be an fun drive???
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    That seems high, but you also have to factor in that the VUE doesn't weigh much.
  • yachtieyachtie Member Posts: 29
    Dindak, interesting article,I wasn't aware the cvt transmissions were madde in Hungary.Are they made by GM or is this outsourcing to an independent company.If they are made by GM, would it not be within their capabilities to make them locally?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I believe I read somewhere that it is in fact a GM Europe designed transmission. Didn't realize it was made in Hungary though.
  • jfavourjfavour Member Posts: 105
    I haven't yet seen either a VUE or a 2002 CR-V, but from the pictures of them each has some styling quirks. IMO the Honda is more conservative and better looking from the outside. I am probably in the minority, but I actually like the looks of the Saturn L series sedans. I really like the rear end of the L200 and L300. I don't think the Vue is as nice, but I'll reserve judgement until I see one.

    I have driven an L-series V6 and I hated the tan interior color (it looked terrible IMO) and I thought the steering wheel was the ugliest thing ever. I wouldn't buy the car based on those two things alone and it seems the VUE has adopted the steering wheel of the L series, not sure about the interior colors. I am sure someone would get used to those things though.

    My sister-in-law has a 94 SL2 and it has performed very well reliability wise and it still looks good. I think Saturn has somewhat of an edge over other GM brands when it comes to reliability and (because of the plastic body) looking good longer. In northern rust belt climates (like mine) that is very important if you plan to keep the vehicle a long time.
  • shellymeister2shellymeister2 Member Posts: 115
    see my post in the Honda CRV section..........
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    That sounds like the CVT thing. Under WOT, and high performance setting (if there are settings available as in Civic HX), the engine would rev at that engine speed (the peak power) for optimum acceleration. It might take a while to get used to how CVT performs though, and I don't know how GM's CVT works.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Jfavour - You're not alone. I like the styling of the L and S series. They're stylish without going to the Pontiac "hit-me-over-the-head-with-it" approach. My only gripe is the large panel gaps. On the sedans, they blend into the body lines well enough. The VUE seems too big, though. With the larger surfaces on the sides, the gaps between panels stand out more. Otherwise, I think that Saturn did a good job of creating a distinct looking vehicle that appears modern without being freakish. Hyundai tried to accomplish the same thing, but the Santa Fe ended up looking lumpy.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I think the Santa Fe looks very attractive from the side. The front, well, it's a bit overdone.

    But as for the large panel gaps on the Saturn, I was told in another forum that because the panels are made of plastic, it apparently grows and shrinks with the change in temperature.

    Although I find it hard that these panels would grow as large as an inch, which is about the size of some of the gaps on Saturn cars.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    That is correct. The plastic panels need room to grow and shrink when in and out of the sun. The resulting gaps create more wind noise, have a small effect on drag, and, in the case of the VUE, break up the long lines of the body styling.

    I noticed the styling problem the first time I saw the vehicle from the side. One of the car mags made reference to it. I believe they remarked that it made it the car look "segmented".

    Diploid - True, the Santa Fe's profile is it's best side, but the front and back are just weird.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The Santa Fe could have been a blockbuster hit for Hyundia if it didn't have that freak styling. The front is just awful IMO. I'm not a big fan of Hyundia but they are getting better.

    As for the gaps, they aren't anywhere near an inch like some have eluded to. They are a necessary evil if you want the polymer panels which Saturn doesn't seem to want to let go. I still think the Vue will be the best looking small SUV on the road.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Check out the gap between the hood and the front of the car. Maybe it's just the atmosphere here, but that looks a little over 3/4 of an inch, which is pretty wide on a car.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    I don't think that the front gap is that bad. It's the sides that call attention to themselves (though not in that particluar pic).

    This is an interesting comparison as both manufacturers have very different approaches to body panels. Staturn's gaps are large, but the panels are dent resistent. Honda is well know for having some of the smallest gaps in the industry, but has been criticized for using thin sheetmetal that dents too easily. There's an detailed article at TOV.net about the panels gaps on the new Civic SI.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to the VUE. For GM's sake, I hope they made the gaps smaller.
    I was referring to a Saturn that my friend has, I believe it's a 95 L-Series. Yes, it's not exactly an inch, but it sure is very obvious from 10 feet away.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Diploid - My bad.


    This is the TOV article I mentioned above. Scroll down for the gap information.


    http://www.vtec.net/civic/02si/exterior.html

This discussion has been closed.