Nissan 350Z

nippononly

is it available for the Z? I guess maybe it is available for every car sold. But can you test-drive the car you want (the specific car, not the model) if you are agreeing to buy it on-line. I am funny about that - I want to drive the actual one before I agree to pay for it and drive it for years.

And BTW, half the cars named by bpraxis are going to sell at or below the MSRP of the Z, so to think they will not compete directly with it is absurd, IMO.

snaphook

How do you know what these other cars are going to be priced at? Anyway, what I said is that the Z is already aggressively priced, which is not the same thing as saying it costs less than the others. What I meant by that term is that you are getting a lot for your dollar. For these other cars to have much of an effect on Z sales they will have to offer as much value, not necessarily lower price.

I haven't actually bought a car online but I suspect that you would be allowed to drive it before making a final commitment. Does anyone know differently? Even if you don't buy a car online to complain about your dealings with sales people is analogous to complaining that it hurts when you bang your head against a wall, don't do it.

blueguydotcom

I haven't actually bought a car online but I suspect that you would be allowed to drive it before making a final commitment. Does anyone know differently? Even if you don't buy a car online to complain about your dealings with sales people is analogous to complaining that it hurts when you bang your head against a wall, don't do it.

I made all the arrangements for my last car online. I showed up when it arrived, drove the car and then signed. If i had not liked it, I would have walked away.

jwilson1

Let me see if I can say this so it makes sense: I think Nissan hopes that Porsche (Boxster, I would imagine) is its market competition. (The car's stats, all but price, and even some of its appearance is Porsche-esque. Whatever. In the brochure, one gorgeous photo's caption speaks of "passing Porsches.") I doubt Porsche buyers, who generally seem to have even more 'tude than BMW drivers, would even allow themselves to be seen in a Nissan store.

But the rest of us (poorer) shmucks would like the association, I suppose. So given pricing and equipment I think they're probably all alone for awhile, at least until the new Toyota comes out, and many of the cars bpraxis mentioned, some of which will appeal to an audience that will cross-shop the Z.

But at the Auto-X the interest will still be undecided until the Z has something of a 'track' record, both literally and figuratively. Until then, it's just another pretty face.

Take care.
Joe W.

snaphook

A lot of people are mentioning a new Supra. Is this going to happen or is it widespread speculation? The reason I ask is that Edmund's does not list it as a future vehicle nor does Toyota's website. Whether or not it happens the fact that there is such limited information would indicate it is more than a year away. So if you are waiting to compare the Z to a car that might come out in over a year you really aren't in the market for a car.

The RX8 will be in direct competition with the Z but I suspect that it will have one big strike against it, the rotary engine. Some might see this as a plus but I feel that there will be a lot more potential buyers with maintenance concerns. Some from a reliability standpoint. Afterall, justified or not, the public perception of previous high output rotaries is that they are service intensive. And even if this doesn't trouble you there is the problem of finding competent people that can perform the service.

markjenn

markjenn

What I was going to say is that the I don't think the Nissan Z has to worry about competition in any particular car - what it needs to worry about is veering right when the market if veering left.

We've gone from essentially one under $40K sports car being produced in about 1997 (the Miata) to nine or so available or about to be available that I can count (Miata, Boxster, BMW Z3/Z4, Toyota MR2, Audi TT, Mercedes SLK, Honda S2000, Mazda RX8, and the Z). And this is happening while we are heading into a recession in which people typically look for more utility and practicality in their car purchases.

As well, Nissan is canabalizing their own sales by producing the Nissan G35 Coupe which offers very similar performance but with a lot more room.

So my $0.02 is that by fall 2003, we'll be looking at significant discounts on Z's. Certainly paying over MSRP now would appear to be a bit foolish unless you just have to have one now.

But who knows. Buyers are fickle.

- Mark

sphinx99

I agree. Either Nissan is not going to make 30,000 of these after all (like they were saying earlier) or the Z will be a very affordable vehicle next summer or fall.

snaphook

I believe that MSRP represents what the manufacturer considers to be a price that will give the dealer a reasonable profit. Paying over this is a sign of either impatience or affluence. Neither of these apply to me so I won't do it. At MSRP the Z already represents a very affordable vehicle for what you are getting.

nippononly

has really taken off - they can't make enough to keep up. If the coupe is as popular, it seems like Z sales will be affected.

snaphook

Certainly a lot of people will buy the G35 Coupe that would otherwise have bought the Z. Keep in mind it is the same company. Nissan is not going to sacrifice profits by competing with itself. If G35 sales keep the Z from reaching its sales target it wouldn't make sense for Nissan to try to get these sales back through price reductions.

rickrover

I doubt Nissan will lose any sleep over the G35 stealing sales from the 350Z or vice versa - they sell a car regardless.

The over sticker hype on the 350 will subside and Nissan dealers will eventually discount them - how could that not happen, it's only a matter of when,

I've seen 5 or 6 350Z's on the road in my area (Orlando).

I'm looking forward to taking one for a spin when the hype dies down - it's the first Nissan I've ever been able to say that about. I think people that are into performance cars will cross shop the 350Z - BMW, Porsche Boxster, Audi, etc - performance is performance no matter who makes it. I'm into local SCCA Autocross - can't wait to see one at the track.

jwilson1

word is, there will be one at the NE regional event next Sunday at Ft. Devens. I'm going up with the idea of seeing how it looks -- I hope it's a driver I know so I can make some guesses.

What do you drive? Which class?

Smooth driving!
Joe W.

sailing216

Car and Driver has a blurb about a 350z race car available to the public for 75k and putting out 450hp. Full roll-cage, slicks, and alot lighter. It's in the G35Coupe article and test. Blue G35C on the front.

ibrollinover4u

Drove a "Touring" model with 6 spd. Car is fun to drive, very refined. I drove it hard. Tranny was very crisp and the Brembo brakes where excellent with no fade. Having owned 4 Zs I can say this is a "good" driving car...when I got back to the dealership all the salespeople where all over me asking what I thought...Good question, I replied simply "it's a Z" The accelleration was smooth...everything was smooth, maybe a little to smooth for me. I prefer a little more excitement from my car. Turbo should be out next year, I'll wait for that one. As a side note: The dipstick is bolted to the engine and has to be brought to the dealer for oil changes! Whats up with that? Ballsy if you ask me, dealer said it uses "special" oil...what a bunch of crap. Basicly same engine as the maxima SE with a different crank and cams.

nippononly

the DIPSTICK is bolted to the engine? What does that mean - you can't check the oil? I don't understand.

snaphook

Why even have a dipstick if it is bolted to the engine? If oil changes need to be performed by the dealer this is almost enough of a reason for me not to consider this car. Also, I'm going to have to investigate exactly what a "special" oil is. Are there any other requirements for special Nissan fluids, ie wiper, radiator, brake, gas, etc.? Maybe the hood should just be locked and require a special Nissan key to open.

plutonious

confusing the automatic transmission fluid dip-stick and fluid changing process with the oil's. Here's the 350Z owner's manual: http://www.courtesyparts.com/350z/2003-Nissan-350Z.pdf

markjenn

I don't know how these things get started...

- Mark

snaphook

Thanks for clearing that up. It did seem too ridiculous to be true.

jwilson1

I'm anxious to hear about shift points, if you had that long.

Steering feedback. Turn-in.

Brake pedal travel, feel.

Positioning of the pedals (for heel/toe shifts)

transmission gates and throws.

I know it was only a test drive, but reactions of the moment are very welcome.

Take care.
Joe W.

ibrollinover4u

Automatic Tranny dipstick?...It was a 6 spd...Before you dismiss what I'm saying , go to a dealer lift the hood, see for yourself! It is great that they have the owners manual on line. Go to the "do it yourself" mainteniece area, and sure enough it makes no mention of what I am stating, just like it implies you can change the spark plugs by yourself...does'nt mention you have to take take a thousand things apart first.

As for drivability.

I first though it stopped pulling 52000Rpms. it turns out that I was just not used to the exhaust note. Quickly found it pulled up to 6500+

Shifting was very short throw with a tight gate. First hard run I missed 3rd wound up in 5th! Not used to how tight the gate was. Once I got used to it no problems...clutch was not hard.

Cornering...the touring model has a vehicle stability mode (that can be turned off) In this mode it will not let you get "loose" in a corner. believe me this car corners flat..touring model also has more stiffness dialed in on the strut bars ( by the way these are owner adjustable)

Brakes..This car had the Brembo brake upgrade.Stop on the dime with no effort, no fade.

All in all car went where you pointed it...did not fight any driver input and had enough HP to power through...I had the opertunitity to wind it out a little.

All in all the car is what you would expect...the only thing missing was some turbos

blueguydotcom

West Coast port shutdown is choking off the 350Z supply, news says.

Oh good grief, you've been typing stuff about the port shutdown for a few days. give it a rest. It may delay a few cars...no big deal.

jwilson1

Did you notice the cost of the Brembo brakes? They're not listed as a separate option in the brochure.

The oil thing is very weird. Doesn't make sense to me, on any car but especially on a sports car.

Take care.
Joe W.

afty

The Brembo brakes are part of the "Track" trim level. You can't get them as a separate option.

jwilson1

That's why I asked the question.

JW

nippononly

you should write fiction - you would have a bestseller - what a writing style!

Too bad he didn't bend the rules and let you drive it!

blueguydotcom

two things...

who drives an Integra - so you know he's real, not some 4-door sedan nut

I'd assume it's a secretary or a college kid if I saw someone in an integra, not a car fan. Guess that comes from living in SoCal where everybody under 20 drives a Civic/RSX/Integra.

As for seeing Z's, thus far I've seen 4 on the road and two in parking lots (not including seeing several at auto shows). IMHO, Nissan totally screwed up. Instead of making a serious throwback to the original Z they made a 2 seater blvd cruiser. Oh well, at least Nissan has the G35 to keep it afloat.

jaserb

Lets see...
Lives in Michigan (check)
Likes hanging out at Nissan dealers (check)
Affinity for Integras (check)
Studying law (check)

All we need is some sort of comment about the Silvia and I think we have a match. Welcome back, Vero!

-Jason

jmad325

I've seen a couple 350 Z's on the road here and wanted to at least see it up close in person. I went to Baker-Jackson in Houston where the only one they had that wasn't sold was a Silver Touring 6M with Navigation in the showroom. I have to say it looks really good and I don't think it is too big, as I had when I saw it just in passing. Interestingly, the sales lady (who seemed more knowledgable about the car than most salespeople I have met) told me it was probably the only available one in the city, something I highly doubt. I asked when more would be available and she said May (that seems way too long) if I ordered now. When I asked her when I might be able to test drive one, she politely said "You don't test drive them, you buy them and then you get to drive it." She also asked if I wanted her to start the paperwork on this one, I said no, since I didn't want to pay $41k for it ($5000 "appearance package" and $500 window tint had been added by the dealer). Is this really true about May being the next available shipment? She said preorders were still on waiting lists. And 5k for markup. they really must think people are fools. just my thoughts. josh

jwilson1

You have the honor of styling the youngest of anyone here. In fact, you sound remarkably like one of the youngsters at freshalloy.com. This is gonna be fun. (I hope)

Where I am (near Boston) there are scads of Honda products but no one really takes them all that seriously, except the police. And if these kiddos start trading up for their Zs, it'll give the Nissan execs fits of joy. The Z may not look good in lime green with a wing as big as its trunk,but the engineer in charge has suggested that was their target demographic in several interviews, especially those re: the G35C.

The good news is that some of these guys hang out at the tracks and if they get involved with the car and bring along their fresh reflexes, it may clean up for awhile .... if it's the car most of us think it is. Yet to be seen.

Actually, I'm surprised there's a Nissan dealer in Michigan. Isn't it illegal to sell anything other than GM/Ford/Cryslur? So the Crossfire should be a biggee in Detroit.

Actually, I agree with everything you said, or at least the parts I could understand. Stand by for the teasing. If you breathe deep you can feel the love in this place, yes?

Take care.
Joe W.

blueguydotcom

He mentioned the Silvia on another topic...i think it was a G35 or 350z v. 325ci board.

porsche4me

"It's just hypnotizing. Especially in silver. Corvette? Porsche? Surely you jest. ....(snip)"

Yaah, mon, Surely

I have seen several in/around Chicagoland. The only time I saw one up close is when a silver one is going the same way in the left hand lane. I drive a silver 911 so to me the Silver color rocks. Anyway, I wanted to get close the Z to take a look so I pull up beside him. He totally slows down. I tap my breaks too so he slows down even further. Dunno what in the heck he was thinking, like I was challenging him to a race or something in a 35 mph fairly choked street! :P In the end, I just sped up and kept checking out whatever I could using my left rear-view mirror. I much like it from the back 3/4 view. The front was kinda fugly...like Nissa ran out of time and insipiration on how to finish the taut rear lines and somehow just chopped up something to make do.

Anyway, I still wanted to take a much closer look at it. On the way back from work last week, driving my Civic, I made a detour to the Nissan dealership. Couple of 20-somethings ordertakers standing outside the door along with a seedy, lifer just inside the doors. great. I started talking to the younger set and got the impression that the new Z is the next best thing since sliced bread and since I just pulled up in my Civic, I can't really be serious...sooo getting my hands or even just my eyes on one will require a financial committment. They took me inside to talk to the Guido character who wanted a deposit becuase they "just happened to have" 2 Zs coming in this week. When asked which day of the week they were coming, I got the standard don't really know type answers. So basically, I can't even see one if I don't sign the dotted line somewhere. Disgusted (and thinking what goes around, comes around) I walked out. Maybe I'll take the porsche there next time to help out my cause but they are going thru some major reconstruction around the entrance and its all gravel and loose dirt, so I will have to wait till that's done beforehand.

Soooooooooooooo, the back end of Z looks cool, the front sucks, and the sides are a little too bling-bling but still nice. The attitude of the Nissan dealership is unbelivable but since I have never set foot inside a NIssan dealership before, I don't know whether this is a change or not...

cheers!

nippononly

this whole process of "you can't see or drive the car unless you promise to buy one" is in-your-face insulting and rude, IMO. How could you possibly know if you want to buy the car, unless you drive it?

Maybe they should just make them all carnival rides instead, and charge people $10 each for a 5-minute drive.

jaserb

I wonder why he would stop using his old username and switch to another one. It's almost like he was ... oh, I get it. Nevermind ;-)

-Jason

habitat1

The inability to test drive cars in advance is not uncommon with cars that are in high demand, limited supply and backordered. However, I was told when I placed deposits on both a C32 and M3 last fall that I could drive the car when it arrived and, if I didn't like it, cancel the deal without penalty.

On the one hand, I would never want to obligate myself to buy a car without thoroughly test driving it. On the other hand, I would not buy a high performance car that a bunch of half serious window shoppers have driven, perhaps without regard to break-in considerations. It's a dilemma.

Fortunately, by the time I bought an S2000, there were enough used ones around on dealers lots that a test drive was much easier to arrange. I expect the ability to test drive a 350Z will occur even sooner, as the 30,000 annual production starts arriving en masse.

jwilson1

unfortunately, the Nissan dealer you visited is pretty typical, at least in this area. More like the Honda dealer you may have gotten your Civic from than the Porsche dealer who is used to people who are pretty car-educated (or so well-heeled it doesn't matter) walking in. At the Nissan shop they deal nearly always with Sentras, Altimas, Maximas, and SUVs -- all cars where the issue is price, color, and -- oh yeah -- is the car passable? They're not used to this.

I'd like to take issue with your comment about the front end, but I guess I see your point. To me it works, kind of ugly in an intimidating way. It holds together very well for me, even in a design sense. The young (24) year old who came up with the initial design was interviewed and pointed out that the trick was to get conflicting surfaces to hang together. On spot, I say.

I can't imagine showing up at an autoX in one if it didn't have the stuff to perform very well -- it would be asking for the automotive equivalent of a fat lip, like a 53 Vette or almost anything from the 80s. I sure hope this one has the vitals to go with the appearance, because I for one can't afford the Boxster S, the 911, or much of anything at that level. Maybe a new cap.

If you get a chance to take one for a ride, let us know your take. It would be very interesting. My friend with the Ferrari 308 promises to take me sometime to see if that will induce a ride. We'll see.

Take care.
Joe W.

rickrover

I have an 02 VW GTI 1.8t that I take to SCCA events - I run in the Street Prepared class. My GTI has every aftermarket suspension tweak there is. I've also tuned the engine to 240 HP (from 180) by doing a few simple things - it's a little screamer on the track.

I've also run a totally stock 01 BMW X5 3.0 just for grins in Stock class. It actually did ok on the track.

Can't wait to see a 350Z on the the track - it's only a matter of time before they start showing up.

shoes

I just want to say something nice about this car, since there don't seem to be many owners posting. I have owned my 2003 350Z for nearly two months and have truly enjoyed it. I almost exclusively drive German cars and my other two vehicles are a 2003 Mercedes CLK500 and a 2002 BMW 540i. I drive the Z mostly to work over a mountain road, where it is a blast to drive. The suspension can be very busy at slow speed but this smooths out once you get rolling. The torque is intoxicating and it drives better than the 2002 Porsche 911 it replaced in my garage.

jwilson1

I began just a couple of years ago, ran a Miata in ES and had an absolute blast. The car is gone now (long story) and I'm anxious to get back, but I have to keep it as much on the cheap as possible.

What class, stock or street prepared, do you think the Z will be placed in, rickrover? How long have you been autoXing? Please post when you've seen your first Z on track.

I was going to go tomorrow but it looks as if the rain will keep up. Obviously I'll post if anyone has one out.

Thanks for the reply.
Joe W.

snaphook

You sound like a Nissan fan, so am I. I put 230k of virtually maintenance free miles on a 91 se-r. Don't you think there is a void in Nissan's line-up that could be filled by offering a 2 door hatchback powered by their 2.5L?

snaphook

Well we need to start a movement. That 91 se-r that I mentioned in my previous post was the best car that I've ever owned. If I had the option of trading it in for an identical(new) copy I would have.

snaphook

Yeah, I saw your postings on another thread. The replies were along the line that this type of car was a failure. All I can say is, ask the people that owned one.

tnjrobi1

My wife and I bought a new 2002 Nissan Pathfinder last Feb. While we were shopping for an SUV (for my wife) any dealership would let us test drive any SUV. Some of these SUV's cost up to 40K.

My wife and I have also looked at the S2000 for me, but they would not let us test drive it.

So what I don't understand is why will a dealership let anyone test drive a 40K SUV, but they won't let you test drive a 32K sports car (I sure the same applies to the Z.) We paid more for our Pathfinder than a Z costs, but anyone can test drive the Pathfinder (why not the Z?)

tnjrobi1

I totally agree with you about the sports car thing. My wife wants kids in the near future and she thinks she has to become one of the SUV soccer mom crowd I guess.

Personally I could have spent 30K on something much better than a Pathfinder (but in all due respect, the Pathfinder is nice.)

rickrover

If the Nissan Dealer had 20 or so Z's on the lot they'd let you test drive one. Since they are all spoken for at the moment, no test drives. I appreciate they don't allow test driving someone's car - I wouldn't want some yo-yo test driving my new car.

Honda dealers have lots of S2000's in stock -they even discount them. You could easily take an S2000 for a test drive now. Give it a year on the Z for things to loosen up at the dealer.

tnjrobi1

That's not entirely true about the S2000. Two weeks ago my wife and I were on the honda lot walking around looking at the new Pilot's & Accords. A salesman walked up and asked us if we wanted to take the Pilot for a test drive. We politely told him no, were just looking. Then I continued to explain to him that we had bought a new Pathfinder for my wife just months ago, but I was in the market for a sports car and would be interested in driving the S2000 that was in the showroom. The salesman told me that the S2000 could only be taken on a test drive if the manager gave us permission.

So what I don't understand is why would they offer to let us drive a $32,000 Pilot(without even knowing our names), but I had to get permission to drive a $32,000 S2000???

Needless to say I didn't feel like getting into the hassle of asking the manager for permission to test drive a car that cost less than the SUV anyone can test drive.

locke2c

that's part of it, not to mention people aren't going to be burning up the clutch, balding the rear tires and bouncing off the rev limiter in any of the SUVs.

-Colin

porsche4me

forget test driving, I'd be happy to just lay eyes on one at the dealership. I guess that the going is so good right now for the Nissan ordertakers that they won't even call a customer who came in looking for the car and ended up giving his contact info...

habitat1

Here's why.

The S2000 redlines at 9,000 rpm, but you are not suppoosed to exceed 5-6k rpm for at least 600-1,000 miles. You think anyone test driving the S2000 is going to exercise that kind of self discipline? Me, neither. Which is why I would only buy a new one that had never been test driven. I walked out of a dealership that had a brand new one waiting for me, but when I turned the key, saw 32 miles on the odometer. The one I got came directly off the truck.

And just in case you are the one guy out there with self discipline, be assured that a test drive of an S2000 below 5-6k rpms is a somewhat useless experience. You will be able to experience its handling, but the engine will feel like it's been plucked out of an Accord. So, if you really want to experience an S2000 prior to buying one, do what I did - find a used one that's already been broken in.