Mazda6 Sedan

newcar31

Sorry, I don't buy that. That is not an excuse for an unusual amount of recalls. How many times has the Focus been recalled? Last time I heard it was 10 or 11, maybe more. How many times has the Civic been recalled? Both are high volume cars. I know about the Toyota sludge issue, but even so, Toyota is a good example of a high volume manufacturer that has NOWHERE NEAR the amount of recalls as Ford and to top it off, on average Toyota builds their vehicles in less time than Ford AND uses some of the same suppliers.

ateixeira

Now you've changed the subject (or at least the car). Yes, the Focus and Escape have had major launch issues with recalls.

The BMW X5 makes Ford look good, though, with 14 recalls already. This despite tiny volumes.

-juice

newcar31

"The BMW X5 makes Ford look good, though, with 14 recalls already. This despite tiny volumes."

This just illustrates my point that production volume and recall frequency have no correlation.

newcar31

"when the so called staining problem came up, we saw near hysteria on here and another website. I told everyone it was nothing more than a glitch that would be resolved and the car was fundamentally an excellent car. I got hammered."

Oh gosh. OK, a Mazda PR rep called the issue "rust" in an Autoweek article, so can we please stop calling it "staining"? Please? Attempting to minimize and sugar-coat this issue by calling it staining or a simple glitch isn't going to work anymore, and it is quite annoying to those who have the rust. If you can't call it what it is, then you shouldn't even bring it up.

Also, one person's "glitch" might be another person's rust in the door sash that has not been resolved after a dealer visit. Maybe I'm picky, or maybe rust on my brand new car is more than a simple glitch.

ateixeira

That's the exception that proves the rule.

When you produce in massive volumes, you order more batches of parts from suppliers. In some cases, the parts change along the way, which is why some recalls affect, say, 1500 cars specifically, and not all from one model year.

There tends to be a correlation.

The X5 is an exception because it's a new model built in a new assembly line with many new suppliers, on turf that's relatively new to BMW. They just flopped the launch.

But recalls don't mean much in this case - X5s are selling like hot cakes.

-juice

ambull

Here's an article I found about Mazda 6 in the UK:

http://www.baileycar.com/mazda6RT_html.html

It mentions some felt-like wheelwells linings which absorb sound, but may not last long.

newcar31

Read this:

(this article also has some relevence to the Mazda 6)

http://www.auto.com/industry/ford30_20020530.htm

ateixeira

Nothing new in there - cost cutting has been going on for years. And I don't dispute the fact that the Escape and Focus launches were basically a disaster.

I hope Mazda can remain mostly independent.

-juice

newcar31

Well, it appears that Ford's decisions and late changes had more to do with their recall problem than their production volume.

ateixeira

I see what you're saying now. But running changes after productions starts, which is also common, means more new parts for vendors to produce, and increases the likelihood of recalls.

Think of it this way, Supplier A can only produce 10,000 widgets, but Ford can sell 12,000 cars with their multi-thousand dollar rebates. So they might need two suppliers to fulfill that need, hence doubling the likelihood that part will fail.

That's why recalls usually affect certain cars, and not all. Escape had 5 recalls, but I doubt you could find one particular Escape that was affected by all five of those recalls. Fact is most Escapes they've built have had no recalls at all, since they haven't had any since those early 5.

-juice

kenoka

This is the first review I've seen of the 6 that has been less than wholly enthusiastic. The tone of the entire article is rather snide and condescending IMHO. I especially like where he/she concludes that the model might be worth having because you should be able to get deep discounts because of Mazda's desperation to increase sales. What a doink. But the hidden gem in all that hooey was this:
"Mazda is also talking about reviving the Mazda Performance Series, with up to three go-faster derivatives appearing during the next three years, culminating in a 280bhp, twin-turbo, four-wheel-drive version."
This is the first I've heard mentioned of multiple MPS versions of the 6. (Applauds)

ambull

The review in post #756 is by Phil Bailey, who apparently owns a garage in Quebec. Yes, he is a bit sarcastic, even profane, but at least he doesn't pull any punches. He says the 4-cylinder automatic transmission, the same one used in the 323 (Protege?), has "a huge gap between first and second". Can anyone confirm this?

maltb

I don't see any use for a 4cyl auto. I'm sure there are those that feel otherwise.

ambull

Well, I don't think 4-cylinder automatics work well either, but I was just passing along information. Also, the Jetco 5-speed automatic is supposed to be the same as the one in the Mazda MPV (or nearly so). Is that good?
As for me, I'd prefer the V6 manual.

maltb

My 2001 has the Mazda trans, not the jatco. I have driven the 02, but not enough to get to know it.

The 4cyl, from what I hear, will be a nice motor so I wouldn't rule that out with a manual trans.

ateixeira

The Jatco V6/auto tranny ought to be OK. We test drove an MPV and it did hesitate to down shift when asked, but at least it felt smooth.

Avoid the Ford CD4E auto tranny, if they use that in the 4 cylinders. Numerous 626 owners complained about those, so I hope the 6 gets a different one. If not I'd avoid it.

-juice

dayokayode

'The all-aluminium-alloy gas engines are based on Ford's four-cylinder I4 range, with Mazda's own camshafts and manifolds'.

If I read the above correctly, 'Bailey' claimed that the 4-cylinder in the 6 is based on Ford's 4cyl. It is my understanding that the newly-developed 4ycl is a Mazda creation that would eventually wind up in the 6, other Mazdas and Ford vehicles/trucks. It's only the v6 version that's being sourced from Ford (Duratec) and redesigned (I'm not an expert) to suit Mazda's preferences.

It appears that several of these 'automotive journalists' simply fail to undertake preliminary research before authoring their pieces. Let's hope he's right, however, regarding the 280bhp version of the 6.

ateixeira

If that's the case, the Focus is rumored to get a 2.3l engine soon, might that be the one Mazda worked on, with a Ford block?

If so, I bet the Protoge gets that 2.3l also.

-juice

maltb

designed the 2.3, but it will be built in Japan by Mazda for the 2004 Protege and built here in the states by Ford for the Focus and Mazda 6.

ambull

From Carseverything.com, Mazda has developed three four-cylinder engines. "The new family of 4-cylinders provides Mazda with a common architecture the company can use for at least 200 future applications in the Ford Motor Company, including direct injection (DI) gasoline and the more extensive use of sequential valve timing."
It doesn't say that the base for these engines wasn't a Ford, just that Mazda did extensive development on them.

audia8q

maltb's info is the same I have from Mazda.

Mazda will be essentially be the primary designer of 4 cyl engines that will filter down to all the Ford family of brands.

dayokayode

Thanks for the clarification guys.

BTW, just got the link below from Mazda

http://www.mindarrow.net/Mazda6/Static/Mazda6.asp?cid=739&mid=56

The contents look interesting and should whet our appetites for a while.

ickes_mobile

It looks like a lot of repackaged stuff or new stuff from the JDM homepage, which is good since I can't read Japanese.

I did note on the product overview/concept page that it states all three body styles will be available world wide, confirming that the hatch will be available in the US!

qbrozen

I hadn't noticed before but now spotted it in the movie, but the grill has a mesh insert. Nice little touch. Wish the movie had sound, though.

by the way, you can reach that same page right from the mazdausa website, under the future models link.

ateixeira

That's cool, I'll look forward to seeing S-VT and direct injection, maybe in a Miata in the future?

-juice

tomcat630

I read somewhere that the Protege will be renamed "Mazda 3". For overseas, there will also be a "2" series car.

vocus

They were talking about that in the Protege forum as well. The new car (when it debuts) will be the 3. Mazda is going to all numeric names in the next couple of years, I think.

ickes_mobile

what Honda did with Acura in an attempt to create "brand awareness". Why don't they just call it the Zoom-Zoom3? With Acura, everyone identifed themselves as an Intgra owner or a Legend owner. The concern on behalf of the automaker is that the consumer has no attachment to the brand and therefore may look to other makers for a move-up product via the old GM model of Chevy to Pontiac to Olds to Buick to Cadillac. It works for BMW so other makers figure it will work for them.

I think its too bad that Mazda is doing the same. Distictive and appealing products such as the Miata, RX-8, Mazda6, Protege and Protege-5 can overcome Mazda's current identify problems and an actual name can add to the identity of the car and brand. Here in the US, we all know who makes the Miata. However,in GB where it is known as only MX-5 only, lots of people apparently think its a Toyota. To me Protege sounds a lot more appealing than Mazda3.

I was surfing around the Japanese page again last night and am surprised that the gallery photos of the car have not expanded or that there is no way to see the car in different colors than the blue sedan, yellow 5-door, and red wagon. I'd like to see it in black, silver, and white in particular.

smpool

To see the Mazda 6 in different colors, go to the Dutch Mazda website and click on "Klueren". Here's the link.

http://www.mazda.nl/modellen/mazda6/frame_home.html

qbrozen

looks kinda Photoshopy to me, if you know what I mean. Like somebody printed a black and white photo of each car and let their kid color in the lines. But, good link nonetheless. Gives you a rough idea. By the way, I love that Strato Blue on any of the models.

dayokayode

Great to know all body styles are coming to the States. I'm particularly fond of the hatch; if I'd known there was something like this 'in the works', I wouldn't have bought my 00626lxv6 two years ago.

I must admit that I don't like the new names; they are too generic and implicitly show that Mazda is unstable. Let's just hope they don't decide to change the names again in the coming years.

nwng

I think they should bring over the premacy, a mini-MPV.

ateixeira

I don't like it when they drop the names, either. I stinks of Ron Zarella's "brand management" era at GM. I prefer to focus on the product.

-juice

tomcat630

Actually Brand Management emphasized the model brand over the make. I.E. "Aztek Brand Manager" instead of "Pontiac Division Head".

Mazda is mostly known for Miatas and needs to beef up their make image.

mazdafun

GM's finally come around to that conclusion. Best of luck to Lutz.

I like the Miata and Protege names. More appealing than MX5 and 3. Then again, they were 323, 626, 929 (Millenia) and RX-7. Maybe they're getting the line-up ready for the RX-8's introduction?

ickes_mobile

that 323 and 929 lacked identity, so they uses names. Now they have done a 180 in search of "brand awareness" Like Fun said, it doesn't matter what its called if its lame. BMW could name the 3-Series Pieceof#$%& and it would still sell.

kenoka

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200205/0531ae.html
4000 orders in the first week!

mazdafun

Maybe Protege and Miata will be kept going somewhere in the world, so Mazda doesn't lose the rights to them.

tomcat630

I am sure 'Miata' will be around forever. "Protege" could be an uplevel Mazda 3 model.

ickes_mobile

That would be one of those things where the car has two names and they evenutally drop one. So we could have the Mazda3 replace the Protege only to be joined later by the Mazda3 Protege and then several years later the Mazda3 part is dropped when they decide that naming cars with numeric designations results in a lack of distinction between cars. So, you'll then be able to buy your 2006 Protege again!

Now I know how these marketing guys stay employed...

ateixeira

They've used MX-5 from the beginning, maybe they'll drop the Miata part.

-juice

vocus

But not alot of people know the car as the MX-5 though. You don't hear people saying, "wow, that's a cool MX-5!". They say MIATA. That's about the only product they are known for right now, it would be dumb for them to change the name of it.

ateixeira

I couldn't agree more...

-juice

wgr

TheCarConnection has an article on the new I-4 engines. It says the Mazda 6 will have a choice of three - 1.8, 2.0 & a 2.3 with high efficiency sequential valve timing. Does anyone know what the HP is for each of these ?

It also says the new engines run more quietly, qualify as ULEV and the valves have a 10 yr, 150,000 mile service life.

vocus

I was lead to believe that only the 2.3L engine would be available in the US 6. I would think the 1.8 wouldn't have enough power for the car, unless it was turbocharged or something.

ateixeira

I'm sure we'll only get the 2.3l model, the others are for countries with $5 a gallon gas.

-juice

vocus

It's a shame that people in the US don't believe in diesel engines more. The VW TDI engine is an excellent one, but most people would soon go for something else. Also, it always seems that the engine/suspension/transmission selection is pared down when a car comes to the US. Using VW as an example again, they have so many more choices when it comes to powertrains over there. That sucks sometimes.

ateixeira

Yep, and nowhere is that more true than with Subaru, who offers 280hp Legacy Blitzens, 240hp Forester turbos, and 280hp Impreza STis.

-juice

audia8q

US Specs...
2.3L is expected to be 150hp
3.0L is 219hp.

I heard a rumor last week that the diesel model offered outside the US is now on the maybe list for north america. A year or two after the US launch at the earliest...still in the rumor stages.

The 6 will be offered with a range of engines. Not all for the North American market.

1.8L 4 cyl inline
2.0L 4 cyl
2.3L 4 cyl 16valve
2.0L Diesel 16 valve
3.0 V6 24 valve

all the engines except the 2.0 and diesel have an SVT balance shaft.

pat

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