Mazda6 Sedan

kenoka

Here is an article from Australia regarding the MazdaSpeed version of the 6. Additions include AWD, turbo, 6 speed transmission, bigger brakes, and stiffer suspension.

"The high-performance 6, which Mazda Australia says it wants, could be unveiled as early as September's Paris Motor Show but will not appear in showrooms until at least next year."

It will probably be priced around $50,000 AUS, which would be about $28,500 US.

http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2002/03/21/FFXLQZVF1ZC.html

kw_carman

of if the insurance on this vehicle would be high for a younger driver?

ickes_mobile

to that of the Altima - but who knows - the car won't be on sale for at least three months...

kenoka

Did you mean the regular 6? If so it should be classified as a mid-size sedan. Ickes_mobile is right, it should be in the neighborhood of the Altima. You could get a quote on the current 626 as well. If you mean the MazdaSpeed it's probably one of those "if you have to ask you can't afford it" deals. : D

ickes_mobile

at the Paris Auto Show...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_index.php?cp=1&domain=evo&page=news%2Fevo_news_story.php%3Fid%3D27512

the_big_h

and I'm betting $100 this won't be coming over to NA anytime soon

kenoka

I'll take that bet. Although Mazda officially "will not discuss future vehicles" they have stated that they will be releasing MazdaSpeed versions of most of their vehicles, and leveraging the MazdaSpeed brand to bring back their sporty image.

ickes_mobile

Kenoka's right. The Protege Mazdaspeed is the first of the range...

ruski

http://lenta.ru/auto/2002/06/18/mazda6/

if you need a translation:

http://www.translate.ru/eng/

meesr

....... seriously guys, when the 6 comes out Mazda will need you far more than you will need them.

Lots of competition out then, and Mazda isn't going to be on a lot of people's radar screens. Initially for first month or so, individual dealers may get greedy, but don't take the bait and wait.

Anyone paying sticker or over on this car is very, very impatient. Hang tight and stick to your guns.

jjpeter

Hearing that the V6 going into the Mazda6 is coming from the Tribute is, IMHO - not a good thing. I have read on the Trib board of horrid gas milage numbers, stalling, cutting out, recalls, clueless service people running the diagnostics etc. Ford/Mazda should take a page from Nissan and design a powerful V6 that can get decent gas milage that doesn't penalize owners with recalls and poor QC. To pull this dog from the stable and shoehorn it into the 6 will prove to be a mistake. Its only meant for the power hungry US market where we are spoiled by gas prices that are a third of the rest of the world. Shun this motor and buy the 2.3-4.

maltb

you have a few contradictions to iron out:

clueless service people running the diagnostics etc
take a page from Nissan and design a powerful V6

Sounds like they'd be even more clueless with a totally new engine vs one that looks like the MPV engine.

Besides, you missed that fact that the 3.0 duratech from the Triscape actually started its life in the Taurus where it has served dutifully. Still, this version will have VVT (scent of efficiency)that was designed for it by Mazda so they will have plenty of input into the engine management, much more so than the Trib.

jjpeter

Perhaps I had a few contradictions in my rant. Sorry about that, I agree. Its just that Mazda has made a big deal about the new 4 cylinder powerplants designated for the 6 that will see cutting edge manufactoring techniques employed. This is supposed to be THE engine line-up for the coming future for a wide spectrum of vehicles across the globe for Ford/Mazda. Why a new V6 is not part of this lineup is the mystery I am refering to. Maybe there is not enough of a world wide market to warrent the investment in a whole new six cylinder engine design. So, its to the parts bin to offer up something with over 200 ponies for the Yanks.

maltb

Well, I just don't see it as sub-standard, yet. Personally, I think the 2.3 and a 5spd in the hatchback would keep me more than happy (ok, maybe a turbo on the 2.3 *huge grin*), but for stoplight racers I still think 3.0l with 219 ponies is just fine.

Mazda has said that they are not out to win the HP war; the protege is proof of that (smug smile).

tiredofmanual

If you've actually driven an Escape with the 3.0 V6, you would see why they are putting it into the 6. It's a smooth, rev-happy engine and effortlessly moves the Escape around. Massaged to 219 HP and in a lighter, more aerodynamic vehicle, gas mileage will be more than acceptable.

I have yet to hear of any engine recalls on the Escape/Tribute, and 99% of the stalling issues were from the ECU, not the engine. Don't assume that the stuff surrounding the engine under the hood will be carried over.

The 2.3L duratec will be plenty good enough and will likely see the greatest aftermarket support (it will end up in the Focus as well, which has quickly developed a huge aftermarket following), but the V6 mated to a nice manual tranny is definitely what I would be looking for.

dbamac

I bought my wife an ’01 Tribute 3.0 ES/AWD and after 20K miles, we’re still very happy with it. It has good power for that type vehicle and even with AWD, we get 22-24 mpg on the highway running 75 mph. Not bad for a box with 4-wheels. In a more aerodynamic and lighter sedan, I imagine the mileage will be more in the 25-27 mpg range and that is certainly good enough for me. If my primary reason for buying a car were gas mileage, I'd buy a Civic.

As for reliability, we've had two minor warranty claims on the Tribute, but neither has involved the powertrain. No stalls, no fuel smells, no "check engine" light issues...nothing. It could happen tomorrow, but I think what we’re seeing on the 'net is more of very vocal (significant) minority who have had some serious problems. BTW - I live in a very hilly area (slopes are supposedly a contributing factor to the stalling problems) so I should be a prime candidate for problems.

If the engine has a fault, it's the fact that it doesn't make much torque at low RPMs. With the heavy Tribute, that fact is rather obvious as the transmission has to down-shift a little more often than I'd prefer when accelerating on the highway or heading up a hill. Adding variable timing to the engine should make available more torque at lower revs and it being installed a smaller, lighter car (like the 6), it will be much less of an issue anyway. Hooking it up to a nice 5-speed manual won't hurt either.

jjpeter

Thanks for all the testimonials for Trib/scape owners. Indeed, if all told were to contribute to a slightly revamped 3.0 V6, 6, then it may be a decent power plant for the high end 6 offering. Now one has to wonder where the pricing will fall. Is this loaded Passat territory? If so Mazda may be asking into the high $20Ks for it. Like Malt said, "2.3 and a 5spd in the hatchback" may be their most popular model - oh wait, this is the US! Make that the 2.3 and an AUTOMATIC in the hatchback, lol.

maltb

My guess is that the 2.3 with an auto in the SEDAN will be the US's favorite. Warped mindset I tell ya...hehehe.

tomcat630

Some dealers will try to "gouge" when the 2003 '6' is trickling in, I bet.

'02 Altimas were marked up at first, now are discounted.

kenoka

Sigh, you're probably right. But I think with Mazda targeting the enthusiast market you will see this to less of an extent than you will with the Camcord. I'm sure some dealers will price gouge on the 6. That's the beauty of a free market. Not that I'd buy ANY car for $3000 over MSRP but there are those that will, because they've just gotta be the first on the block to own it. More power to 'em I say. I just hope they don't whine about losing "exclusivity" when the prices come down to earth and they realize they paid way more than anyone else. I remember reading a thread on another board where a WRX owner was whining about that very thing, and how they should get a class action lawsuit together because Subaru had misrepresented how many WRX's they would bring over. What an idiot.

ickes_mobile

Here it is captured during press preview in California this week.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=17782

Kind of cements my thinking on getting a 6, at least until I see the JDM/Euro version to be sold here as an Acura.

ickes_mobile

The MAZDA6 will be available in 10 colors: Grace Green, Deep Blue, Gun Metallic, Sparkling Silver, Dark Red Metallic, Black, Star Shine, Snow Flake Pearl, Classic Red, and Sunny Yellow.

Source: Mazda USA website...

mazdafun

Just in a rut, I guess.

ambull

I predict a greater than expected demand for the 6 here in America, as was reported in Japan a few days ago. Over on the Honda Accord board, some people are saying the 2003 Accord looks are not up to expectations, and are thinking of getting the 6 instead (myself included).
So it could be a while until the price settles down to where it should be. But if you're waiting for the hatchback or wagon, the price may have settled by then.

kenoka

I just went to the link that ickes_mobile provided, and I'm not impressed at all with the redesigned Accord. It looks very square and boxy IMHO and the back-end is kinda droopy looking. A perfect blend into the background don't make waves vanilla's vanilla car.

ambull

I think the 6 would sell well whether or not the Accord was up to expectations, but Honda has just handed Mazda a chance to get back in the ball game big-time! Let's just hope they don't screw it up with lots of recalls and problems.

vocus

A Stratus/Cirrus from the front, a last-gen Camry from the back (a melted one). I don't like it at all. The back end looks like someone parked it too close to the fire or something, like it melted.

ghulet

The new Accord is ugly. Did they buy surplus Buick taillights? It's not that the styling is that radical, but it isn't pretty. It looks like a Honda, only with more chrome and a kind of melted look to it.

audia8q

nobody has ever accused Honda of being on the cutting edge of design.

kenoka

In the press release talking about the styling of the Mazda6, someone described it as a "well dressed athlete". Along those lines, I would describe the Accord as a "fat kid with a droopy behind who is forced to dress up to go to church".

the_big_h

I think that's more fitting for the new Camry.

whotheman

definitely spanks the new Accord, no doubt!

ashutoshsm

... one of those two f-ugly cars beating the other into last place?

cds12

I'm an 93 Accord owner who WAS looking foreward to a 2003. that is until I saw it. i went to the mazda site and cheked out the 6 WOW!!! now thats a great lookin car. much better than the altima, camry, accord , even the passat. i want one! when will they be available?

PS how is mazda reliability?

verozahl

We've had three Mazdas in my family, and friends have had MX-6s and Proteges. Mazda reliability is higher than JD Powers says.

ashutoshsm

... is biased by the fact (I imagine) that they combine truck and car ratings. The good ol Mazda B-series trucks are actually the usual crappy Ford truck products, and that brings down the average!

Other factor include the Ford-built 626 auto transmission, and numerous Ford components in other Mazdas. Which is a major concern for those considering the 6, because it does have some Ford input. The V6 duratec is one major (Ford-provided) component, although it has been massaged by Mazda and should be more reliable by now, especially because it has been in service with Ford vehicles for a while - and kinks should have been ironed out.

allie7

I'm in teh same boat as cds12, but honestly the only pics we've seen of the new Accord have been spy-pics. I think I'll wait until seeing at least real photos before making a decision. (And since I can't buy either right now, I'd have to wait anyways.)

fwatson

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=17782

mazdafun

Kinda like a Saturn SL sedan, but flipped.

Thanks for the link!

tomcat630

The "new" Accord looks like a 1994 Buick Regal in the back. Now it's has virtually no resemblance to the original sporty Accords.

I guess they really are now a "true American Car" company!

This will help Mazda sales I am sure.

Honda loyalists will say "looks don't matter" I am sure.

jrct9454

...I'm hard-pressed to see a big difference between the '03 Accord and the '03 Mazda. In fact, from the rear, there is more resemblence than difference. The fronts of both cars have good family character, that is they both look like the brands they represent, but in all of the other details, I have a hard time seeing what makes the Mazda a preferable design.

When the two cars can be viewed side-by-side in the metal, as opposed to photos, perhaps I could see what others seem to see, but not right now...

vooch

The new accord looks fairly bland to me. It looks bigger than the '02 Accord too. The '03 6 looks just like it should look... an updated 626. It still looks like a Mazda but its certainly more sporty than any previous 626. The Accord just looks like every other mid-size car.

I'm biased against Honda to begin with. They'd have to sell them at 1/2 price for me to even consider one. They're way overrated and their arrogance has been at the forefront of all my (limited) experience with them. They don't make bad cars by any means, I'm just not a fan. It's all subjective

But I can certainly see the differences between the 6 and the new Accord even though the pictures of the Accord are not that clear. The Accord looks like an even blander (is that a word? heh) version of the new Camry.

vocus

I know what you mean about Honda's attitude. I experienced that back in 1999 when I went looking at a Civic. I walked right out of the dealership, and went and bought a 1999 Protege DX instead. Glad I did, because I also saved like $2000 in the process.

cds12

What the hell are you smokin?

cds12

What the hell are you smokin?

verozahl

Honda and Mazda people can coexist peacefully.

ashutoshsm

Honda and Chrysler people can coexist peacefully? Because that's what the new Accord look like, some kind of Chrysler! Appearance wise, its almost blasphemy to speak of the Accord in the same breath as the Mazda 6! And performance will be the same story, judging rom the reviews conducted in Europe/Japan.

Methinks we need to start a few new vs. boards -
Honda Accord '03 VS. Chrysler Concord
Honda Accord '03 VS. 1994 Buick Regal

jeffrey15

I know that this has been covered before but I can't seem to find it in search. When are the sedans expected to be available? I have heard anything from September 2002 to February 2003

mazdafun

But I also hear they'll trickle in during Oct 2002. They just don't want to disappoint anyone, so they're playing it conservative.

verozahl

Mazda interiors are usually pretty nice, and the 6 is quite a looker. I've seen it at the Auto Show, whereas I'm only seeing this strange pics on the Internet for the Accord.