Mazda6 Sedan

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Comments

  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Are you waiting to order an '04? That's what I decided to do, to avoid the first year bugs and maybe pick up some small improvements.

    As long as they don't change the option combos for the worse. Of course, if they went with the Canadian configurations here that would be fine with me, as I'd just get the GS-V6 configuration and I would have to special order to get the SAB/SAC pkg. Of course, if they would just make the SAB/SAC pkg standard (like VW does!) I can just get a 6s with no options.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Yes.

    Does anyone in the sub $25K market position their vehicle as a sports sedan? Not one I can think of.

    True sports sedans (as opposed to sporty sedans) have a limited unit market. At under $25K, I doubt the unit market is big enough to generate sufficient per unit revenue to justify the product. Moving the starting point closer to $30K creates a larger total $ market.

    Also, I think that automobile marketing has created a link between sports sedan and luxury. As proof I offer the the sub $25K TSX, A4, 3 series, and 9-3. Oops, I can't find them. :-)
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    "Are you waiting to order an '04? That's what I decided to do, to avoid the first year bugs and maybe pick up some small improvements."

    There are no first year bugs. Probably some option changes, and a significant increase in MT 6s' for 04.

    The difference between the 00 and 01 Protege' was additional structural reinforcing. I don't believe it was thicker sheet metal through the entire auto. It also added an additional 120 lbs to the auto. My 00 1.8 was quicker than a 2.0 01.

    Mark.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Yeah, there were some minor things. The CEL problem and the falling-off fuse box cover to name two. They most certainly are tracking warranty repairs for rattles and noises as well. Fixes for these things usually show up by the second year of production. Nothing to worry about really, but maybe they'll make some minor improvements here and there.

    Actually a bigger reason for me to wait for 04 was that I can get one at the beginning of the model year, which is better for depreciation then getting an 03 at the end of the model year. ;)

    Increasing 6s-MT production would be a good thing, too. Maybe I won't have to order after all.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    They make running changes in production for that stuff. Usually, manufacturers are much faster at making running changes than releasing service bulletins, etc.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Yeah, I know, I'm just trying to justify dragging my feet ...
  • cop414cop414 Member Posts: 68
    mjvchicago-
    I couldn't have said it any better-when my 18 yoa daughter first rode in my 6 she exclaimed-oh, you got "one of those" refering to the mt, then she asked why? I tried to explain that with "one of those" you are really "driving" the car, instead of just sitting there shuffling along. She did't get it. She drives my old Dodge Intrepid ES. I tried to explain how I learned to drive with three on the column, then she was really confused. My younger daughter will learn to drive in my 6 so I don't have to explain these things to her. I feel that all kids should learn how to drive mt before being licensed.
    Almost 2K on my redfire-sport pkg, comfort pkg, premium pkg, leather, moonroof. I was at my barber today and after I was done the place was empty-all the guys were out looking at the 6-two comments from them-it looks like it has ten coats of clearcoat, and I could never afford somthing like that. (The car definetly looks like it costs much more than it does!) Only problem so far is a phantom rattle/squeak that I think is coming from the headliner in the front passenger compartment.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    "Does anyone in the sub $25K market position their vehicle as a sports sedan?"

    are you asking in terms of customer base, or toward manufacturers?

    I really don't understand why people MUST put 'sport' and 'luxury' together to create a 'sports sedan'..... it really gives the 'sport' in sport sedan a bad name....
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    The CEL issue was faulty software. Easily fixed. Not really a design issue. I've only seen a couple of posts on rattles, compared to hundreds on the 03 Accord board.

    My 6s was built in 3/03 and is built like a vault.

    Mark. : )
  • Lnelson1Lnelson1 Member Posts: 4
    I have a 6i 5 sp w/Sport Pkg ordered. Today I happened across a very disturbing event. I am travelling on business and my rental car is a Mazda 6!!! While excited to drive one, I am upset that Mazda putting these in the Hertz rental fleet is definitely going to "Taurusize" the residual value of the 6.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "are you asking in terms of customer base, or toward manufacturers?"

    Manufacturer.

    "I really don't understand why people MUST put 'sport' and 'luxury' together to create a 'sports sedan'..... it really gives the 'sport' in sport sedan a bad name...."

    Because the manufacturers have been told by the market (ie buyers) that successful sports sedans must be equipped with luxury/premium features. A sports sedan without those features would be nothing more than a bare bones vehicle strapped onto a fun drivetrain and that market is too small to cater to. Unless you can convince 40,000 of your closest friends to pony up deposits and orders, the vehicle you are looking for isn't going to happen.

    Now that doesn't mean you can't buy a strippo M6 and do aftermarket stuff to it and meet your objective.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    "Now that doesn't mean you can't buy a strippo M6 and do aftermarket stuff to it and meet your objective."

    why would I want to do that, when I can get a fully loaded mazda6s w/ MT for around 25k?

    I bet it's just as fun to drive, if not more so, than say, a Saab 9-3, or even the TSX.

    people need to realize they can get a fun to drive sport sedan without paying for luxury premiums!
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well now that you've decided on a fully loaded 6 with leather and everything else, are you not now surrounded by luxury features? Leather, sun roof, comfort package, Bose, in dash cd package?

    I thought you were interested in something like a 323 type of ride with stick, cloth seats, no hole in roof, manual HVAC, crank windows and AM/FM radio. Basically a no-frills roller skate.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    I wouldn't worry about it too much. Even the Honda Accord can be found in rental fleets and on Hertz Used Car lots. Anyway, the rentals will be 99% 6i automatics. The only problem occurs if a car isn't selling and they start dumping them into rentals. I rented a car from National in Phoenix this week. There were a lot of Olds Aleros there, probably due to the fact that Olds is being phased out. Then again, there were a lot of Maximas there too, which is what I picked from the line up.

    Anyway, if you're concerned about depreciation you shouldn't by ANY new car.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    yeah i get all those 'luxury' (more like comfort/convenience items) in a Mazda6, and I STILL keep the price down around 25k.

    a similarly equipped Saab 9-3, Audi A4, or a 3-series would easily cost into the low 30s.

    My point is, a well-equipped sport sedan does not need to cost into the 30s. The Mazda 6 is an example of such vehicle. You get comfort and driving fun for a great price, it's really not hard to see the value in that!

    I feel like you are trying to scrutinize every single word I'm writing, I'm not an english major you know...
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    #10845 of 10862 by the_big_h May 15, 2003 (3:04 pm)
    why can't it?

    "why do we must pay near 30k to get a 'sports sedan', when for around 25k you get a very well equipped sports sedan, minus the the luxury equipments and the 'snob appeal' that these premium brands often carry?"

    My missive was based on the above. Many bemoan the need for leather, cd-changers, power everything, moonroofs, et al in a sports sedan so I presumed you would as well. I was wrong. But the only things missing from the M6 are NAV and HID's at that point.

    But whether you like it or not, sport sedans are the premium brands and the M6 is measured against the features they offer; one of which is snob appeal. The M6 as sport sedan contender is an interesting proposal but it doesn't seem to be working yet IMHO. It's one differentiation is price - yet price doesn't seem to be winning Acura, Audi, BMW and SAAB conquest sales. The SAAB 9-3 Linear has a street price of about $27K similiarly equipped and it matches the M6 very well in features and offers the requisite snob appeal as well as the "un-herd" mentality esposed by M6 boosters.

    Don't get me wrong - the M6 offers tremendous value as a sports sedan alternative and I like the vehicle. But as of right now it's not a contender IMHO in that race because it is fighting the low end of it's supposed competition with it's high end product. It's going to take Mazda a long time to build it's brand awareness once it can decide what character it wants to tell the world about.

    BTW, I'm not an english major either. Peace.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "Don't get me wrong - the M6 offers tremendous value as a sports sedan alternative and I like the vehicle. But as of right now it's not a contender IMHO in that race because it is fighting the low end of it's supposed competition with it's high end product. It's going to take Mazda a long time to build it's brand awareness once it can decide what character it wants to tell the world about."

    With the Protege5, Mazdaspeed Protege, Mazda6 and now the RX-8, is there really any question about what character it wants to tell the world about?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    when will line 5 be fixed?

    I think the 6 will find it's place and its demand but it won't be overnight as Mazda had hoped. the most common response people gave me when I told them what I drive is: "you mean a 626?" People just aren't aware that Mazda has something worth lookin at in this segment. I think there are plenty of people in the target and once the word gets out and people put there yasses behind the wheel, demand will go up.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    malt - Line 5 - At this rate never.

    Yes, Mazda will find it's way and people will someday look to Mazda as an alternative. I just find it amusing the doom and gloom here based on one years sales numbers. But it is my opinion that the market for sport sedans is limited in the price point the 6 is competing in. If the M6 were perceived as a reliable alternative to the Accord and Camry with an emphasis on handling, it would generate greater interest. Images of drifting and cutting 6's in the sand do nothing to bring in the middle class Honda/Toyota buyers that Mazda needs in order to generate volume. The vast majority of buyers in this price range could give a rat's patoot about sports sedan handling. If Mazda can change perceptions, great but as you said it won't happen overnight.

    mazda6s: those models all show off a sporting nature but if nobody buys them at a price sufficient enough to provide profits it doesn't matter.
  • corduroygtcorduroygt Member Posts: 19
    The only "sports" sedans under 25K that I can think of:
    Mazda6
    WRX
    MazdaSpeed Protege
    Neon SRT-4 (I know I know)

    The 6 is clearly the most spacious and luxurious among them, and the WRX is the sportiest.
    Isn't it contradictory that all cars labeled as "sport sedans" in magazines are very luxurious? I would like to see how they would hold up against the STi and Evo in a comparison aimed at the "sport" aspect of these "sport" sedans.
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Member Posts: 626
    >>a similarly equipped Saab 9-3, Audi A4, or a 3-series would easily cost into the low 30s.<<

    With incentives, I got my 9-3 Arc for under 29K(yes I still read the Mazda 6 board. :)
  • miata10aemiata10ae Member Posts: 90
    The vast majority of buyers in this price range could give a rat's patoot about sports sedan handling.

    Well, true! That is why the sales target is not 400,000 (as Accord, or Camry) but instead 80,000. The 6 is not an alternative to the Accord or Camry. It is not Mazda's intention to compete with these guys. Mazda has always made cars that attracted a niche market. This market is the car enthusiast crowd. This crowd understands the thrills of a sports car but they either don't have the money for an expensive sport(y) car or do not want to unecessary spend extra money on these cars since Mazda vehicles offer the same excitement and reliability for less. Unfortunately the 626 was a subpar vehicle (even Mazda admitted this) and drove people away. Mazda is trying to gain this crowd back and is going to take some time to achieve this. In my opinion and from personal experiences the reason that sales are not picking up as expected is the fact that people do not know about this car at all, or they think it is an updated version of the 626.
  • jcliffrojcliffro Member Posts: 108
    When I went to the www.mazdausa website and used the "build your own" feature, I encountered something surprising. The website would not allow the side air bags/air curtains to be ordered with any of the following: sunroof, Bose audio system or leather interior. I actually prefer the cloth interior to leather I am keeping my convertible, so a sunroof isn't a big deal. But I really want the Bose and the side air bags. Does anyone know if one CAN get both the Bose system and the side air bags/air curtains in the V-6 Mazda 6s ?
  • jcliffrojcliffro Member Posts: 108
    I have not read all the entires on this posting board, but I did inquire of Mazda as to any plans on selling the 5-door hatchback version of the Mazda 6 in the U.S. They are presently selling three version of the 6 in New Zealand, for example: sedan, hatchback and wagon. I was told that the hatchback would be available at the same time that the wagon would be available, January 2004. I think the 5-door hatchback, if available with the same options as the present sedan, would be the best of many worlds and definitely worth waiting for. And to whomever was concerned about "rental fleets", I doubt seriously if there will be ANY hatchbacks in rental fleets.
  • silvercrownsilvercrown Member Posts: 237
    that they seem to inspire a lot of passion in the people who own and/or admire their cars. And they seem to have a loyal following, albeit on a smaller scale than Honda or Toyota.

    Just look at the sheer amount of daily activity on this board or the Protege board. It's tremendous compared to most other boards. It's a very different outlook. IMHO, the people on the Accord board are fervently loyal, but in a different and more "practical" way than the Mazda 6 group. The Camry board is all business, without the type of enthusiasm that you see here. I can say this as a current Camry owner. I like my car, but I'm not passionate about it. I can't find any fault with it, and I appreciate it's reliability and overall "goodness", yet I'm not moved by it. However, I've begun a major love affair with my Sepang Green 6 and it hasn't even been built yet. I've even had dreams about it, if you can believe it. Yep, I've got it bad.

    I think this is an interesting phenomenon and perhaps in time, it will translate into increased sales and success for Mazda. I hope this is the case, because I'd like to see Mazda succeed with this awesome car. Although I don't want to see 6's everywhere I go (like I see Camrys now). I'm looking forward to a little more exclusivity and uniqueness. :-) But either way, I plan to enjoy the whole experience with my 6.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • mpiatekmpiatek Member Posts: 68
    I totally agree with silvercrown. Mazda customers are amazing in that they love the cars they drive, and they love sharing that experience with others and hearing about others' experiences. Saturn (less in recent years) and Jeep both have similar followings, though it's nowhere near the level of excitement that Mazda owners have about their cars. Honestly, this discussion board was one of the things that attracted me to the Mazda 6 to begin with. I had read the reviews about it, and it sounded great, but when I came on here and saw how much people loved their 6s, that said volumes more to me about this car than any review could.

    ZOOM ZOOM!!

    Mike
  • ambullambull Member Posts: 255
    Yes, that enthusiasm is contagious. There's much more to be excited about with Mazda than Saturn! I'm really glad to hear there are few problems with the car. I got excited about the Altima before it came out, but it didn't live up to my expectations.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Yesterday I offered to drive my youngest son to my bank so he could cash in $2.00 worth of pennies. The closest branch is a 20 min drive each way.

    My name is Mark. I own a Mazda!!!!
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And, Mark obviously loves both his car and his youngest son! What a great Dad! Did your son enjoy the ride?
  • cookie01cookie01 Member Posts: 369
    I have a Ms6 with both the side air bags and Bose

    I do not have leather or sunroof...

    So I guess my car proves your point. But I'd be very surprised to learn that a M6 can't come with leather and sunroof and still have side bags and Bose.

    Maybe something is wrong with the site.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    is something Mazda really lacks. Honda, Mercedes, Toyota, VW, and BMW have that prestige factor. I mean look at it realisticly: what buyer is going to get out of his Honda and Toyota to drive a Mazda? None I can think of. Mazda is known as a step down from Honda and Toyota. It like a Mercedes buyer going to Acura. Acura has no prestige factor(ok maybe the early to mid 90's Legend had a little prestifge going for it)but the Mercedes buyer would view it as a step down. Now if Mazda can just establish the RX-8's popularity the "prestige factor" will be there.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I went from an Integra GS-R to my lowly Protege ES. To be honest, I don't think Toyota or Honda have any prestige factor. They have a good reputation for reliability, but I think that's different than prestige.

    IMO, if someone is concerned about pretige, they won't be buying a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or Mazda. They're gonna get a VW, Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, Saab, MB, or BMW. They'll even get it used if they have to. If I was concerned about prestige, I would have leased a BMW 3 series for the same monthly payment as the Protege that I bought.
  • cookie01cookie01 Member Posts: 369
    Trac is very much like an air bag. You hope you never use it. But you've got to be glad when you do!
    I live in Oregon, and the street to my house is on a very steep incline. In my Impala I used the traction control several times a winter... just to get to my driveway.
    In the M6 I've yet to have it kick on, but I bought it March 1 and there's be nothing but boring old rain since then.

    In the old days of my Hondas I would get studded snow tires to get through the winter. It's VERY expensive and you only end up needing them two-three days for the entire season. I think Traction Control is a great deal. So is All-wheel drive. But if I lived in LA I'd probably skip it all.

    I'm really glad I've got airbags too... but I also hope I'll NEVER need them.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Hey, maybe they could put that on the window sticker:

    Brand Name Prestige Factor $995
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Honda and Toyota just have a "bigger name" in the car industry than Mazda. Toyota and Honda didn't get where they are for nothing. Lets face it buyers view Mazda as a step down from the Japanese Big 3. If you look at realiability records this theory is far from the truth but hey thats the way the average buyer views it. In the 80's nobody associated Mazda with Ford now everybody kind of does of that which taints the Mazda name even more.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Perception is 9/10 of reality.

    When people hear Miata they don't think Ford (or Mazda for that matter). The same will be true for the RX-8.

    They should have just named the Mazda6 the MZ-6.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    That VW has prestige. My first few cars were water-cooled VWs and they never had prestige, but VW has done one heck of a job to gain it since then. Of course this would be a good time for creakid to go into steering feel that used to be there but has diminished a bit.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Yeah, steering feel, or maybe sales numbers? Wait, how about option packages? Or, we could even revive the old folding back seat debate!
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Yeah, me too. Not to offend anyone, but I've always thought of VWs as pieces of......

    But they have nice interiors.....
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    look at the wonderful ad for a brand new Mazda2
    http://www.punchbaby.com/media/gitfakt/clips/ads/womendrivers.mov
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Have you seen the Passat W8? It's an engineering wonder, but who would pay that much for a Passat? I got to sit in one at a local dealer. No, I didn't ask to drive it.
  • miata10aemiata10ae Member Posts: 90
    I liked that advertising that chikoo posted the link for. I thought it was creative and very clever which makes it stick in my head. In contrary to the 6 commercial that comes and goes so fast. What was that car again?
    Mazda might want to look into a different advertising agency.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    they got some real lousy choices
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Yeah, I've seen the Passat W8. My neighbor has one. Waste of money. There are 6 cylinder sedans that are faster. I like the way VWs look and feel, but I still think they are piles. I worked around cars for a good chunk of my life, through high school and college and I tend to notice things. I don't think I've ever seen a Jetta III that didn't have the door guard falling off. A check engine light means that your VW is normal. My roomate has a 97' Jetta GLX and his door gaurds keep falling off. He's had to replace lights and fix shorts in his dash numerous times. He's been through 2 coils in 100,000 miles, $500 a pop. I remember VWs and Audis constantly coming in to the lube shop to get their oil topped off. It seems like J-lube's "free top-offs" policy was created for VWs and Audis. You'd think they'd fix this stuff on the Jetta IV, but those have coil problems and power window problems that took years for VW to address. No wonder their catch phrase is "Drivers Wanted".
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    I don't think of Honda or Toyota as being "prestige" brands. I do think they have reputations for building good, reliable, affordable vehicles (not always deserved, but usually). They put a lot of time and effort into getting them, and I think they deserve them. It will take Mazda some effort to climb out of the hole they and Ford put them into (trying to compete head-to-head against Toyohonda and the lousy Ford ATs put into some mid-80s 626s, the Mazda Truck and Navajo...ick). They on a positive slope now, so they're headed in the right direction.
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    VW had the first part, but is loosing the second part, plus the phrase 'german engineering" to describe it. But that is more and more associated with unreliable these days than handling.

    Mazda has the second part, but not the first part. So no prestige. Also sports sedans came about during the booming decade when everyone spent above and beyond their capabilities. I think in lean times like these more and more people will find less expensive sports sedans a smart choice.
  • accord7accord7 Member Posts: 96
    I had a discussion with an owner of a transmission shop this morning. He told me he could support his entire business on servicing Ford Taurus transmissions alone. He indicated that he's seen several go bad around 50,000 miles. Of course I asked about Mazda, and he stated the 626 had some problems, but not near as many as the Chrysler vans. It is hearing these types of stories why many of us want to be positively certain that Ford will not supply parts for the M6 (except the V6 block we already know about).
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    As far as we know the transmissions in the 6 are all Mazda or Jatco units, right?
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    I thought I was going to have to order to get what I want - the 6s-MT with only the SAB/SAC package. However, I have just spotted two of them at local dealers in this configuration, though they're not the color I would choose.

    Has anyone else seen this combo on the lots?
  • ruefusruefus Member Posts: 254
    I would never consider 'shutting the plant down' as an option. There are myriad number of things
    that can be done well short of that.

    Slowing line speed or running fewer/shorter shifts etc. are all possibilities.

    Shutting down is an EXTREME measure. And something around 60-80 days inventory is considered normal. With the slowdown in the market - higher numbers are to be expected.
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