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Comments
As long as they don't change the option combos for the worse. Of course, if they went with the Canadian configurations here that would be fine with me, as I'd just get the GS-V6 configuration and I would have to special order to get the SAB/SAC pkg. Of course, if they would just make the SAB/SAC pkg standard (like VW does!) I can just get a 6s with no options.
Does anyone in the sub $25K market position their vehicle as a sports sedan? Not one I can think of.
True sports sedans (as opposed to sporty sedans) have a limited unit market. At under $25K, I doubt the unit market is big enough to generate sufficient per unit revenue to justify the product. Moving the starting point closer to $30K creates a larger total $ market.
Also, I think that automobile marketing has created a link between sports sedan and luxury. As proof I offer the the sub $25K TSX, A4, 3 series, and 9-3. Oops, I can't find them. :-)
There are no first year bugs. Probably some option changes, and a significant increase in MT 6s' for 04.
The difference between the 00 and 01 Protege' was additional structural reinforcing. I don't believe it was thicker sheet metal through the entire auto. It also added an additional 120 lbs to the auto. My 00 1.8 was quicker than a 2.0 01.
Mark.
Actually a bigger reason for me to wait for 04 was that I can get one at the beginning of the model year, which is better for depreciation then getting an 03 at the end of the model year.
Increasing 6s-MT production would be a good thing, too. Maybe I won't have to order after all.
I couldn't have said it any better-when my 18 yoa daughter first rode in my 6 she exclaimed-oh, you got "one of those" refering to the mt, then she asked why? I tried to explain that with "one of those" you are really "driving" the car, instead of just sitting there shuffling along. She did't get it. She drives my old Dodge Intrepid ES. I tried to explain how I learned to drive with three on the column, then she was really confused. My younger daughter will learn to drive in my 6 so I don't have to explain these things to her. I feel that all kids should learn how to drive mt before being licensed.
Almost 2K on my redfire-sport pkg, comfort pkg, premium pkg, leather, moonroof. I was at my barber today and after I was done the place was empty-all the guys were out looking at the 6-two comments from them-it looks like it has ten coats of clearcoat, and I could never afford somthing like that. (The car definetly looks like it costs much more than it does!) Only problem so far is a phantom rattle/squeak that I think is coming from the headliner in the front passenger compartment.
are you asking in terms of customer base, or toward manufacturers?
I really don't understand why people MUST put 'sport' and 'luxury' together to create a 'sports sedan'..... it really gives the 'sport' in sport sedan a bad name....
My 6s was built in 3/03 and is built like a vault.
Mark. : )
Manufacturer.
"I really don't understand why people MUST put 'sport' and 'luxury' together to create a 'sports sedan'..... it really gives the 'sport' in sport sedan a bad name...."
Because the manufacturers have been told by the market (ie buyers) that successful sports sedans must be equipped with luxury/premium features. A sports sedan without those features would be nothing more than a bare bones vehicle strapped onto a fun drivetrain and that market is too small to cater to. Unless you can convince 40,000 of your closest friends to pony up deposits and orders, the vehicle you are looking for isn't going to happen.
Now that doesn't mean you can't buy a strippo M6 and do aftermarket stuff to it and meet your objective.
why would I want to do that, when I can get a fully loaded mazda6s w/ MT for around 25k?
I bet it's just as fun to drive, if not more so, than say, a Saab 9-3, or even the TSX.
people need to realize they can get a fun to drive sport sedan without paying for luxury premiums!
I thought you were interested in something like a 323 type of ride with stick, cloth seats, no hole in roof, manual HVAC, crank windows and AM/FM radio. Basically a no-frills roller skate.
Anyway, if you're concerned about depreciation you shouldn't by ANY new car.
a similarly equipped Saab 9-3, Audi A4, or a 3-series would easily cost into the low 30s.
My point is, a well-equipped sport sedan does not need to cost into the 30s. The Mazda 6 is an example of such vehicle. You get comfort and driving fun for a great price, it's really not hard to see the value in that!
I feel like you are trying to scrutinize every single word I'm writing, I'm not an english major you know...
why can't it?
"why do we must pay near 30k to get a 'sports sedan', when for around 25k you get a very well equipped sports sedan, minus the the luxury equipments and the 'snob appeal' that these premium brands often carry?"
My missive was based on the above. Many bemoan the need for leather, cd-changers, power everything, moonroofs, et al in a sports sedan so I presumed you would as well. I was wrong. But the only things missing from the M6 are NAV and HID's at that point.
But whether you like it or not, sport sedans are the premium brands and the M6 is measured against the features they offer; one of which is snob appeal. The M6 as sport sedan contender is an interesting proposal but it doesn't seem to be working yet IMHO. It's one differentiation is price - yet price doesn't seem to be winning Acura, Audi, BMW and SAAB conquest sales. The SAAB 9-3 Linear has a street price of about $27K similiarly equipped and it matches the M6 very well in features and offers the requisite snob appeal as well as the "un-herd" mentality esposed by M6 boosters.
Don't get me wrong - the M6 offers tremendous value as a sports sedan alternative and I like the vehicle. But as of right now it's not a contender IMHO in that race because it is fighting the low end of it's supposed competition with it's high end product. It's going to take Mazda a long time to build it's brand awareness once it can decide what character it wants to tell the world about.
BTW, I'm not an english major either. Peace.
With the Protege5, Mazdaspeed Protege, Mazda6 and now the RX-8, is there really any question about what character it wants to tell the world about?
I think the 6 will find it's place and its demand but it won't be overnight as Mazda had hoped. the most common response people gave me when I told them what I drive is: "you mean a 626?" People just aren't aware that Mazda has something worth lookin at in this segment. I think there are plenty of people in the target and once the word gets out and people put there yasses behind the wheel, demand will go up.
Yes, Mazda will find it's way and people will someday look to Mazda as an alternative. I just find it amusing the doom and gloom here based on one years sales numbers. But it is my opinion that the market for sport sedans is limited in the price point the 6 is competing in. If the M6 were perceived as a reliable alternative to the Accord and Camry with an emphasis on handling, it would generate greater interest. Images of drifting and cutting 6's in the sand do nothing to bring in the middle class Honda/Toyota buyers that Mazda needs in order to generate volume. The vast majority of buyers in this price range could give a rat's patoot about sports sedan handling. If Mazda can change perceptions, great but as you said it won't happen overnight.
mazda6s: those models all show off a sporting nature but if nobody buys them at a price sufficient enough to provide profits it doesn't matter.
Mazda6
WRX
MazdaSpeed Protege
Neon SRT-4 (I know I know)
The 6 is clearly the most spacious and luxurious among them, and the WRX is the sportiest.
Isn't it contradictory that all cars labeled as "sport sedans" in magazines are very luxurious? I would like to see how they would hold up against the STi and Evo in a comparison aimed at the "sport" aspect of these "sport" sedans.
With incentives, I got my 9-3 Arc for under 29K(yes I still read the Mazda 6 board.
Well, true! That is why the sales target is not 400,000 (as Accord, or Camry) but instead 80,000. The 6 is not an alternative to the Accord or Camry. It is not Mazda's intention to compete with these guys. Mazda has always made cars that attracted a niche market. This market is the car enthusiast crowd. This crowd understands the thrills of a sports car but they either don't have the money for an expensive sport(y) car or do not want to unecessary spend extra money on these cars since Mazda vehicles offer the same excitement and reliability for less. Unfortunately the 626 was a subpar vehicle (even Mazda admitted this) and drove people away. Mazda is trying to gain this crowd back and is going to take some time to achieve this. In my opinion and from personal experiences the reason that sales are not picking up as expected is the fact that people do not know about this car at all, or they think it is an updated version of the 626.
Just look at the sheer amount of daily activity on this board or the Protege board. It's tremendous compared to most other boards. It's a very different outlook. IMHO, the people on the Accord board are fervently loyal, but in a different and more "practical" way than the Mazda 6 group. The Camry board is all business, without the type of enthusiasm that you see here. I can say this as a current Camry owner. I like my car, but I'm not passionate about it. I can't find any fault with it, and I appreciate it's reliability and overall "goodness", yet I'm not moved by it. However, I've begun a major love affair with my Sepang Green 6 and it hasn't even been built yet. I've even had dreams about it, if you can believe it. Yep, I've got it bad.
I think this is an interesting phenomenon and perhaps in time, it will translate into increased sales and success for Mazda. I hope this is the case, because I'd like to see Mazda succeed with this awesome car. Although I don't want to see 6's everywhere I go (like I see Camrys now). I'm looking forward to a little more exclusivity and uniqueness. :-) But either way, I plan to enjoy the whole experience with my 6.
Just my 2 cents.
ZOOM ZOOM!!
Mike
My name is Mark. I own a Mazda!!!!
I do not have leather or sunroof...
So I guess my car proves your point. But I'd be very surprised to learn that a M6 can't come with leather and sunroof and still have side bags and Bose.
Maybe something is wrong with the site.
IMO, if someone is concerned about pretige, they won't be buying a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or Mazda. They're gonna get a VW, Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, Saab, MB, or BMW. They'll even get it used if they have to. If I was concerned about prestige, I would have leased a BMW 3 series for the same monthly payment as the Protege that I bought.
I live in Oregon, and the street to my house is on a very steep incline. In my Impala I used the traction control several times a winter... just to get to my driveway.
In the M6 I've yet to have it kick on, but I bought it March 1 and there's be nothing but boring old rain since then.
In the old days of my Hondas I would get studded snow tires to get through the winter. It's VERY expensive and you only end up needing them two-three days for the entire season. I think Traction Control is a great deal. So is All-wheel drive. But if I lived in LA I'd probably skip it all.
I'm really glad I've got airbags too... but I also hope I'll NEVER need them.
Brand Name Prestige Factor $995
When people hear Miata they don't think Ford (or Mazda for that matter). The same will be true for the RX-8.
They should have just named the Mazda6 the MZ-6.
But they have nice interiors.....
http://www.punchbaby.com/media/gitfakt/clips/ads/womendrivers.mov
Mazda might want to look into a different advertising agency.
Mazda has the second part, but not the first part. So no prestige. Also sports sedans came about during the booming decade when everyone spent above and beyond their capabilities. I think in lean times like these more and more people will find less expensive sports sedans a smart choice.
Has anyone else seen this combo on the lots?
that can be done well short of that.
Slowing line speed or running fewer/shorter shifts etc. are all possibilities.
Shutting down is an EXTREME measure. And something around 60-80 days inventory is considered normal. With the slowdown in the market - higher numbers are to be expected.