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Mazda6 Sedan

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    cookie01cookie01 Member Posts: 369
    I would bite on this "big" thing, except I don't think that's really it.

    I think SUVs were popular because they "weren't" minivans.

    I drove an Impala. You almost can't get a bigger sedan, but no body else except John and I had one (wink, wink)... mostly only older people drive them. Same with big Olds and Lincolns.

    In the 80s everyone with more than one kid had a mini van. EVERYONE! And in the early 90s Ford made the Explorer and folks who had the money to dump the van and get one, did. (and the Explorer isn't very big inside, no where near a minivan).

    It was just different. It became cool. It became the big deal to drive an SUV. Once other makers saw that Ford was getting these things to fly off the lot, they made them too.

    I'm not a SUV fan (there's a whole forum for that subject)... But I see where they are WAY more cool to most people than a minivan. I think the SUV thing will fade, like the vans did. It's just taking longer.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Hatches unfortunately have a low rent distinction associated with them. History has shown they don't sell well in this marketplace. Even Saab dropped the hatch design (one of the things that makes a Saab) in order to sell more 9-3's.

    Wagons are heating up right now but the market for them is still very small. Since Subaru will be introducing the new Legacy wagon next spring, it'll be interesting.

    Bashing yourself is OK. Bashing others because you don't like their automotive choices is silly and impolite. It's a car for goodness sake. I had a friend implore recently "why would you consider a Saab?" I didn't retort "why did you buy a Sequoia?" I simply wished him luck with it. Hey it's your money to spend as you wish.

    SUV's sell because automakers have made them more attractive and they are profitable. Bottom-line, isn't that the American way??
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    akumazakumaz Member Posts: 65
    caligirl94- HOW did you get a 6i with a moonroof AND ABS? Was it aftermarket? I am utterly shocked.

    The reason I'm a little sad (see my title) is that I decided to hold off on getting my 6 for a few months. I guess I just wasn't ready to negotiate. I'm waiting to see how Mazda arranges the options for the '04's, and I've been extremely frustrated at how I haven't been able to find a 6i with a moonroof and ABS.

    However, sitting back may be a good thing. I've decided to learn how to drive a stick (the 6- and reading here about the joy of 6 with a stick...heh heh- finally did it) to fully enjoy the 6, and since I'm starting a new job soon (with a chance to get more money in a short time), I figure that holding off can get me a better-loaded 6- perhaps even a 6s.
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    chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >>>Hey it's your money to spend as you wish.<<<

    In that response, you should be able justify your choice and make him see what you saw in a Saab. Simply wishing him luck with his choice is kinda like "washing your hands off" in a I dont care about you, you dont care about me.

    It's caring about each other that makes one ask this "WHY?" question.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    IMHO, questioning someone else's automotive choice can be interpreted as an insult akin to questioning their intelligence. I prefer to avoid confrontations with friends over insignificant things. It's not an "I don't care" attitude, it's simply not worth arguing about. Now if I thought he was making a poor decision in a spouse or in an act that could endanger his well-being, that's different.

    "If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all."

    OTOH, all you silly Mazda lovers who happen to be complete strangers must find redemption!! LOL LOL
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    chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    one's choice of spouse.

    I will surely comment upon his choice of car though.
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    ramped1ramped1 Member Posts: 159
    will be way, way cooler than the old Accord and Camry wagons, or the 626 hatch. In my opinion the 6 wagon and hatch looks even better than the sedan. And, since having the ability to pack a ton of stuff into your daily transport seems to be the rage these days (see the Element, Vibe, Matrix), that's why I think the M6 wagon has a great chance to succeed.

    I agree that a hatch does carry some baggage in this country, but the ones I owned (Chevy Monza, Toyota Celica, Acura Integra and Mitsubishi Eclipse) all had tons of storage room in the back, which came in handy.

    By the way, those drooling over the RX-8 should keep in mind that if one of these things breaks down far from a Mazda dealership, good luck in finding a mechanic to fix it. I had that problem on rare occasions with my RX-7 back in the 80s. That rotary engine ran like butter, though. The 8 should be a scream to drive.
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    gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    That engine is intoxicating. Thought I would never own another type of engine.

    As far as the hatches and wagons being very successful...That would be a fluke. I think it would be like the Accord 6 speed. If you read Edmunds you'd think they would fly of the shelves but in reality it ain't hapnin'. I don't think it will happen in this case either. Especially if they charge a premium for them.
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    gearhead10gearhead10 Member Posts: 84
    Sometimes we ask people we know about their choice in cars because we think we know them well enough that we don't understand their reasoning behind the choice they made, sometimes a $40K+ choice. A friend of mine, who drives a truck, is not looking forward to a longer commute to a potential new job. I recently asked him, not confrontationally but in a friendly jab, why he drove a truck as he clearly does not enjoy driving it for commuting. He explained that when he bought it he was restoring a couple of old Cadillacs and used the truck to haul parts. Was a good answer and I respected it.

    I think part of the reason this person doesn't enjoy driving and is the truck he drives. He probably would enjoy it more if he drove an MZ6 or something like it. I know I enjoy my 17 mile commute to work in my Audi and even look forward to it (yeah, I'm sick) in the morning. I'm pushing him to get a new car to replace the truck (he'll make a lot more money if he gets the job) since he doesn't restore old cars anymore.
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    audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I don't think its fair to hammer somebody because they selected the wrong car..haha
    but I do find the process very interesting. Think about this. Most of the people here on Edmunds do alot of homework to help determin which car is for them...we all hope its the Mazda6, but some people come to different conclusions with the reserach.

    I wonder how somebody can do alot of research and still buy a Kia Whatevermobile or a Hyundai XG350 for $26,000...or how about the people who came to the conslusion that the Daewoo Laganza was the best car for them?

    so it goes to show you that even with all the homework and research people end up buying cars that somebody else wouldnt take for free...Does this make them bad people?
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    gearhead10gearhead10 Member Posts: 84
    I remember 11 years ago when a co-worker came into the office and announced "I got a new car! Who wants to see my new car!" We rushed out to the parking lot to look at it and it was a minivan. I was never so disappointed to see a new car in my life! I forced a smile and walked back to my office.

    I think you're right, SUVs seem way more cool than minivans only in COMPARISON as minivans are so uncool. I know everytime I see one with 20" chrome rims that that guy doesn't take it offroad. Just wonder why people STILL choose to drive them when a sport wagon or full size sedan would better fit their needs.

    Still remember another co-worker with two kids bragging about his $40+K Toyota Sequoia. $40+K for a Toyota?! We paid less for our Lexus GS and it has enough room for two adults and two kids.
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    gearhead10gearhead10 Member Posts: 84
    "I wonder how somebody can do alot of research and still buy a Kia Whatevermobile or a Hyundai XG350 for $26,000...or how about the people who came to the conslusion that the Daewoo Laganza was the best car for them?"

    I don't think people who do a LOT of research buy Kias or Hyundais. Would be mind-boggling. I thnk their car is an appliance to them and probably the extent of their research is they know they need a certain amount of room at a specific price and are unwilling to buy used. So I guess if that's the case one really can't criticize them expecially with the warranties those brands are offering.

    You can spend $26K on a Hyundai?!
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    boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    The 6 wagon might have a chance to make a little niche as a sporty, affordable (i.e. a little cheaper than a Passat), roomy enough wagon. Who would have predicted the Outback would catch on?

    I don't know if the hatch will have mass appeal, but it's what I'm going to buy if I can get it equipped the way I want. If they do price it much above the sedan, that'll kill it, though.

    Geez, what do people have against minivans? You can haul HUGE amounts of stuff in one--I think that's cool. When I played in a rock band in high school, we hauled all our equipment around in my parents' VW Bus (the originial minivan). My parents' new Sienna is like a Lexus (quiet, comfortable, luxurious, lots of whistles and bells), but it seats 7. Sure, it doesn't handle like a sports car, but we've established that most people don't care about handling.
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    maakumaaku Member Posts: 2
    Looks like some incentives expired yesterday (mazda loyalty, perhaps a dealer incentive). Anyone have the skinny on anything upcoming in the latter half of june or beyond?
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    chikoo - let me rephrase: If a friend asked for an honest opinion regarding their choice in a spouse, I would answer honestly. Afterall, it's cheaper to trade in a car!!

    bashing - what I don't like is people who jump all over others for buying what they feel is an inferior vehicle. My friend asked me what kind of car are you planning on buying next and I told him maybe a Saab or a used Lincoln LS. He jumped all over both of them and dragged them into the mud. No question of why I wanted them - just that both of them are bad choices. In most of the X vs Y forums here at Edmunds, that seems to be the case. I try to be gracious on things like that - if you like the car, great. I hope you enjoy it and good luck.

    minivans - are actually staging a comeback. Now that Honda and Toyota and even Mazda have compelling choices, people are once again buying them. Heck, we love our Odyssey.
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    pgmrpgmr Member Posts: 6
    Now that we have our 6i, I've been able to figure out some of the additional functions in the test mode. I've listed them below. The tests are done sequentially by pressing the reset button. It does not cycle through again. The trip meter is NOT reset if you do it right (hold in button B4 turning key to run position and hold until tEst shows up).

    Test Number / Code Displayed / Function

    01 / on / unknown
    04 / on|off / drivers door open|door closed
    08 / on|off / light sw on|light sw off
    12 / oo / speedometer check
    13 / oo / tachometer check
    14 / oo / beeper check
    16 / on (blinks 3 times) / low fuel light chk
    18 / on (blinks 3 times) / unknown
    22 /053 / unknown
    23 /oo / fuel gauge chk
    25 /oo / water temp gauge chk
    all warning light check
    50 / -- / unknown
    51 / -- / "
    31 /on|off / key in/out check *

    *when ignition is turned off, you'll see "31/on" (turn parking lights on to see display), removing key will show "31/off"
     
    Can anyone can figure out the "unknown" codes?
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    pgmrpgmr Member Posts: 6
    Now that we have our 6i, I've been able to figure out some of the additional functions in the test mode. I've listed them below. The tests are done sequentially by pressing the reset button. It does not cycle through again. The trip meter is NOT reset if you do it right (hold in button B4 turning key to run position and hold until tEst shows up).

    Test Number / Code Displayed / Function

    01 / on / unknown
    04 / on|off / drivers door open|door closed
    08 / on|off / light sw on|light sw off
    12 / oo / speedometer check
    13 / oo / tachometer check
    14 / oo / beeper check
    16 / on (blinks 3 times) / low fuel light chk
    18 / on (blinks 3 times) / unknown
    22 /053 / unknown
    23 /oo / fuel gauge chk
    25 /oo / water temp gauge chk
    all warning light check
    50 / -- / unknown
    51 / -- / "
    31 /on|off / key in/out check *

    *when ignition is turned off, you'll see "31/on" (turn parking lights on to see display), removing key will show "31/off"
     
    Can anyone can figure out the "unknown" codes?
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    caligirl94caligirl94 Member Posts: 24
    How'd I get a 6i with ABS, SAB and moonroof, etc.?

    I had to buy one fully loaded. Initially all I required was SAB, ABS and Bose. However, once I started looking I found out that the safety options seem to be incompatible with the Bose system as far as Mazda options packaging was concerned. I was up in the air about the other stuff, but once a local dealership let me drive a fully loaded 6i for the weekend a while back, I fell in love with several of the other options and decided to go ahead and just get one with everything. I plan to keep this car for the next 10 years or so, so I figured it would be best to just go ahead and get everything I might want now and not chance regretting it later.

    I have to admit I was a little frustrated at first that the only way I could get the few options I wanted was to get all the options/packages, but now that I have the car, I love it (haven't found an option yet that I'm not enjoying). Hope this helps. :)
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    ambullambull Member Posts: 255
    Isn't the 0% for 48 months or 1.9% for 60 months with 10% down new? It doesn't apply to cars with the sport package.
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    mazdamarlamazdamarla Member Posts: 350
    Well, since I probably won't get my car for another 2 months (according to Mazda's ETA), I at least ordered and received my ZOOM ZOOM stainless steel license plate frame. Now I can look at that for the next 7 weeks and imagine it on my new car. (Will be ripping the dealer's plate frame off the second I get home with my car, and replacing it with that.) LOL.
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    akumazakumaz Member Posts: 65
    That definitely helps things ^_^

    My original plan was- when I was finally making big money- was to buy a fully loaded 6. When I was frantically trying to unload my Golf, I thought I would have to compromise that in order to get the car itself. Although with some of the options I was getting anyway, the price was tipping towards the pricier end of the spectrum anyways. Might as well go for broke! Something to think about 6 months down the line, although the hatch will almost be out be then...
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    mjvchicagomjvchicago Member Posts: 149
    Wow, a ZOOM ZOOM stainless steel license plate frame? How did you get that, and where can I get one??
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    glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    My average MPG on my 6s for the first 1,800 miles has been 22.6. 70/30 City/Highway. Not too bad IMO.

    Mark.
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    karld1karld1 Member Posts: 22
    Just read this review of TSX and Mazda6 both done the same week one next to the other and boy oh boy aren't they pro-honda biased.

    TSX sounds lika a godsend and Mazda6 while better handling and much less expencive sound like not so good debut not up to the Autoweek's expectations.

    Autoweek had some good respect from me, all until last week.
     Just read it:
    http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carboard&loc_code=index&content_code=02414815
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    newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    they just like the TSX. It sounds like a really nice ride and Autoweek isn't the only publication that likes it.
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    pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    chikoo- thanks for the response, I appreciate it

    pat- ok thanks for telling me that, didn't realize that option was there, tried a search and the only post I could find that gave specifics was one that said it was 10 years/ 100,000 miles, but the person didn't specify whether it was factory or aftermarket so I'll assume it was some sort of aftermarket warranty, I'll keep that search function in mind in the future when I have a question, thanks
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    glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Sure it's a nice ride. But is it worth thousands more? The TSX in the current C&D was $29,990. I could buy a 6s and take the family to Japan for two weeks with that much money!!!

     How much is that (A) on the grill worth anyway?
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    1wiseguy1wiseguy Member Posts: 120
    Anyone know if the moonroof is supposed to open all the way (so you can't see the glass anymore). Just got my M6 recently and havent used it cause of all the rain. Tried it today and it only opened 3/4 of the way. From outside even when fully opened you could still see 3-4 inches of glass that didn't slide in.
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    pkzln89pkzln89 Member Posts: 21
    Pzev, you might have found my post with the
    details regarding the extended warranty. It's
    10years/100k miles fully transferable warranty
    from Mazda. Any Mazda dealership in the US is
    supposed to honor it and perform any necessary repairs.
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Check your C&D again - it's $28,990 right there on page 81. That's the MSRP with NAV. When NAV is available for M6 plan on a $2K hop in MSRP as well.

    We all know the TSX costs more and has more features. Whether one feels it's worth it is one's opinion.
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    miata10aemiata10ae Member Posts: 90
    "From outside even when fully opened you could still see 3-4 inches of glass that didn't slide in."

    That is the way is supposed to work. Nothing is wrong with your moonroof.
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    carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Since GM is doing a commercial on how their reliability is improving can't Mazda do one saying Mazda's are basically as reliable as Honda or Toyota? People buy Honda and Toyota because of reliability(Toyota sales are based on reliability more than Honda because Honda has always had younger buyers but reliability is still one of the main reasons people buy Accords.)This might get people flocking to Mazda delerships if they knew Mazda was nearly as reliable as Honda or Toyota. In a J.D. Powers 5 year survey from cars from 1998 which were surveyed in 2002 Mazda finished above the industry average in reliability. Only Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Acura, BMW, Porsche, Cadillac, Nissan, and Buick beat them out in that survey. A few other makes beat Mazda in that survey but not many. If Mazda could do a commercial like that they could win alot of new buyers.
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    johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    I don't think the J. D. Power & Associates ratings are anywhere near as influential on sales as they once were. People hear them and go "yeah, yeah, yeah" and just dismiss them. Many think the ratings are for sale to the highest bidder (they must be confusing them with car of the year awards at certain magazines).

    JDP has another problem, too. In a recent quality survey, respondents who complained about low initial quality complained about such things as the number of cupholders. Both manufacturers and dealers are crying foul.

    Lastly, look at what you wrote. Buick did better than Mazda. Buick. If Mazda started running the ads you suggested, just imagine the damage if daring Mr. Lutz ran ads that began:

    Mellow male voice: In a recent quality survey, Buick did better than a major Japanese manufacturer: Mazda. Yes Buick. Isn't it time you considered Buick again?

    Those ads would help Buick, but they could do REAL damage to Mazda. And if consumers went to look at the ratings, they would find Honda and Toyota STILL ranked better than Mazda. So J D Power does NOT support the premise that Mazda is basically as reliable as Honda, Toyota (and Nissan).

    Consumer Reports is far more trusted, and Mazda does well there. Unfortunately for Mazda, CR has a STRICT anti-commericalization policy that has always been upheld.
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    mjvchicagomjvchicago Member Posts: 149
    I've never had a moonroof with a car before until now, and noticed that when the moonroof is open on the highway, wind kinda enters through the moonroof slit... you know, the part in the roof behind the moonroof where the moonroof actually slides into when open. The wind entering there makes the interior ceiling to buffet and vibrate slightly. If i put my hand on the ceiling back there, I can feel the wind moving it. Of course everything is fine when the moonroof is closed. Anyone else notice this in other cars they've owned with moonroofs?
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    otoluvaotoluva Member Posts: 196
    LOL, can't stop laughing at the supersize comments you made.
    God bless America
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    mazdamarlamazdamarla Member Posts: 350
    <edited>
    Hmmmm....i dunno if I can post the link to where I bought it. Can I?
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "Anyone know if the moonroof is supposed to open all the way (so you can't see the glass any more)."

    This might help:

    Our Escape does the same thing. Word around the Escape/Tribute boards is that you can open it the rest of the way after the auto open has stopped. I have not tried it myself because the opening is quite large even with the extra couple of inches sticking out.

    Apparently the "Auto" open stops the glass from completely recessing as a safety feature. Just press and hold the open button, after the "Auto" function has stopped, to push it back the rest of the way.

    It might be worth a try in the 6 too.
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    chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    is that there is absolutely no hassles in using it. I have a 0 deductible 84/100 bumper to bumper on my Protege ES. I had problems with my power windows. Got it fixed with no crying and did not experience any horror stories that one usually hears with extended warranties.
    Btw, it works just like other extended warranty in that respect that a surveyor will have to survey and approve the claim, which the mazda dealer takes care of anyway.
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    fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    Peer presure is the main reason, peer pressure in families and from friends.Some families have "always" bought Fords so the kids coming into driving age buy Fords. I have two young cousins, one bought a black Navigator because he's a doctor and other doctors he works with have big SUVs. His brother, less well-heeled, bought a black Explorer.

    I never pay any attention to JDPowers, Consumers anything, and buy what feels right to me. If it looks like my idea of what a car should be in the year 2003, if it handles good, it the interior trim is how I like it - that's all that matters.

    Herd mentallity counts for most buyers, you can read it here on Edmunds in the Civic forum -- "I bought it because everyone else is buying them."

    Big men buy big cars because they need the additional leg and seat space. Rarely do you see a small person driving a Cadillac. One of the most popular cars sold here is that Toyota boxy thing, can't think of the name. People who buy it are usually middle-aged and like to haul their wives' friends and church members to dinner in it -- three in front and three in back. Zoom Zoom is not their bag, Room Room is.

    How manyh times have your friends bought a car and suggested that you buy one too? And later, when that friend realizes it is junk and sells it, you are glad you didn't take his advice?

    There are a few purchases that are personal decisions -- others cannot make them for you, such as clothes and cars. Don't be lead astray by good meaning advice. Buy what is right for you and it and you will be a *standout*.

    fowler3
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    boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    You mean you pay NO attention to reliability when you're looking for a car? I think CR's reliability ratings are really useful--my 13-year old Camry (100K miles), while boring, is really reliable, just as CR says it should be. I would be afraid to buy some new cars because they might have more problems than my old car.

    I agree with your general philosophy, though. It seems like most people don't put much effort into deciding on a new car. They know about (say) the Civic and the Corolla, and might try one other car, but don't do much research or know much about the choices otherwise. The problem is that most people have to buy a new car quickly--the old one has mechanical problems or was in an accident and isn't worth repairing.

    "That Toyota boxy thing"--Are you talking about the Avalon? It's even bigger and softer than the Camry.
    Or some sort of SUV?
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I pay no attention to reliability ratings anymore. As my 3 top rated Japanese cars were a pain in the neck to own from day one, but my low reliability American car didn't start giving me problems until a couple of years after the warranty expired. Reliability ratings to me don't mean much because they don't apply to individual, and therefore what good is knowing your car is top-rated in reliability when and if you have problems with it that you normally associate with unreliable vehicles.
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    seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    from independent sources such as consumer reports can predict how LIKELY your car will breakdown RELATIVE to other cars in the same model year. It doesn't guarantee you a trouble-free car, but buying a japanese model for example can make it XX % more likely you'll spend less time at the auto repair shop versus an American car. The probabilities are lower, but it's not zero.
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    seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    I am tracking the inventory in my area of mazda6's recently, and it went from 212 auto 6i's down to 181 in a matter of 2 weeks. I guess Mazda's intentions of reducing inventory is working. Are they switching over to making 2004's at the factory during this downtime? (since some have mentioned the michigan plant stopped accepting 2003 orders in may)
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    1wiseguy1wiseguy Member Posts: 120
    Thanks for the reassurance. After paying close to 30K for a car you want to make sure you dont have problems in the first week.

    Baggs- there is no auto open on the moonroof. It only opens while the "open" button is pressed and it won't go past a certain point. According to miata10ae, that's normal, so all is good.

    BTW- I just filled up for the first time last night- the fuel light was on and the tank was near empty. I was only able to squeeze 58 litres into it. That's way less than the specs report the tank size to be. Does this thing have a 20L (5 gallon) reserve tank?
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    jeffb1jeffb1 Member Posts: 42
    "Apparently the "Auto" open stops the glass from completely recessing as a safety feature. Just press and hold the open button, after the "Auto" function has stopped, to push it back the rest of the way. It might be worth a try in the 6 too."

    I don't think my 6S has an 'auto' open for the moonroof. Am I missing something here?

    Thx.
    Jeff
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    miata10aemiata10ae Member Posts: 90
    There is no auto function for the moonroof, at least for the US made cars. To open the moonroof you must hold the open button down. If you let go it will stop opening.
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    glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Thank's for the correction. My error. It's 28,990.

       I was rushing my post in anticipation of the drive I was about to undertake in my 6s.

    Mark. : )
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    akumazakumaz Member Posts: 65
    I had a question concerning the ABS/traction control option. Is it an option done directly at the factory, or is it a PIO? Just curious.

    In somewhat related news, I located a couple of Steel Grey automatic 6i's with black interior, WITHOUT the sport package. I didn't think these could exist without the sport package. However, none of them are equipped with ABS- which is a sticking point. Is there a great deal of difference in braking performance between an ABS-equipped 6 and a non-ABS equipped 6? If there isn't too much of a difference, I'm contemplating putting off my hiatus and going to negotiate.
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    pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    pkzln89- yes I think it was your post that I found, so the 10 year warranty you have is a factory warranty from Mazda? Glad to hear that, when I do get my car I might be doing more city driving so the extra 3 years may become important over the 7 year one chikoo is refering to. By the way, were you offered the 7 year one chikoo is refering to or just the 10 year one? And you said you paid $1299 right?

    chikoo- sounds great, I'm hesitant in getting one because $1,000+ is a lot of money but if it's as hassle-free as you say then it may be worth it. How much would power windows cost to fix out of pocket? $100-$200?

    And one more question for either of you. I thought I heard somewhere that Mazda's 4 year warranty comes with free loaner cars when warranty work is being done. Is this true? And does the extended warranty repairs get free loaner cars as well?
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    fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    the Avalon was what I was thinking about. A friend bought a Camry and it was totaled in a wreck, rearended. He then bought an Avalon. Since he is tall the Avalon suits him better. The reason he bought the Camry -- "It's engine is highly rated." Other than that one point he didn't care what the car looked like.

    I've had other people say they don't care what color it is, what the inside looks like -- just as long as it goes. And they bought some pretty odd cars campared to the mainstream.

    These people do not do research of any kind, couldn't care less about options or styling. They want power windows, locks, and outside mirrors period.

    I think that's the majority and what we see on used car lots proves it. And answers the question asked here..."What is wrong with American buyers?" They don't care about handling and GFX. They just want something to get to work in and to go shopping in. They buy dealers' "bread and butter" cars.

    Before the plethora of makes and models available today, cars came in threes: the stripper with plain seats, crank windows, hubcaps,and the 5 worst colors; the middle model with better colors and nicer looking wheel covers, plus AT and a radio; and top-of-the-line with AT, power windows, locks, and mirrors, best radio, fancy wheel covers, and the nicest paint colors. You couldn't option out a middle model equal to the high-line.

    Now, with the Mazda6, you can option out a 6i equal to the 6s with the exception of the engine, and that is probably why Mazda's option packages are such a mess. At some point some of those options are going to be available ONLY on the 6s to straighten it out.

    You know the old saying, "If you try to please everyone you wind up pleasing noone." That's Mazda's bucket of worms.

    fowler3
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