Mazda6 Sedan

newcar31

"The manual may be more fun, but you have far greater overall control of the car with an automatic."

How? In what way?

mjvchicago

Maybe I should have qualified that statement by saying "better engine control". The best example is in a high-acceleration situation, say off the line, or in highway merging/passing.

There are times when automatics just have a hard time finding what gear to use for optimum acceleration. I've driven cars that helplessly move between gears before picking the right one, or even just keeping you in a high gear without kicking you down when you really need it. Bottom line, it comes down to real control of when a car switches gear and thus how much power is available to you for the particular situation. The car's computer can't know the situation, at least not yet!

It basically depends on how intimate you are with your car and what value you place on driving. If you consider driving a no-frills, "point and go" affair, then an automatic is probably for you. If you are the kind that gets a real kick out of probing your car's abilities, then a manual would probably be best for you. Everyone's different.

shahmask

manuals are fun and you do have a greater control than with an automatic. however, driving in traffic with a manual is a total pain. you're constantly having to interact with the clutch and stick. that's why i feel a manual is much more pain than it's worth. don't get me wrong, i learned driving seven years ago on manuals. for the past four years, i drive half the time with a manual and half the time with an automatic and i will never buy a manual again. i also feel more intimate with an automatic. i feel you just learn the car better that way.

johnclineii

Before we venture too far afield, isn't it wonderful Mazda offers us the choice? Or at least they SAY they do? Finding the car equipped the way you want is a real challenge, to say the very least!

gee35coupe

so be it. But most people seem to prefer their fun more like the Olsen Twins. A little more tame and tasteful.

As far as me buying a 6....Well I'm still looking. But I've broadened my horizons to include the Element and maybe a truck of some type. I just bought a new house and I keep finding reasons to buy a truck or something like that for my next car.

shahmask

how about a tribute? though i hate the hvac controls(straight out of the ford parts bin and is the stupid american car type), it's a lot of fun to drive, has one of the best accelerations of suvs, and they're selling the v6 in my area for 19000.

glideslopes

I find the Manu-Matic feature on the 6 AT very useful. Especially for holding gears through tight runs. For pure straight line acceleration I leave it in Auto-Mode. I find the 5-Speed AT in my 6s extremely responsive in gear selection. I can only think of one or two times I've noticed it "hunting for a gear."

I will say however, I feel the ECM needs to be re-calibrated for better "Tip In" throttle response.

Mark.

akumaz

The manual VS. automatic argument is interesting. I learned to drive on an automatic after a horrific experience with my dad trying to teach me on a stick. But after learning how much fun can be had (or so my friends and family say) with driving a stick, I'm planning to learn to drive a manual myself. The feeling of having more control over the car intrigues me, and the better gas mileage doesn't hurt as well- not to mention fewer chances of transmission problems. HOWEVER, for commuting I can see it being problematic as well.

I was in Peoria,IL this weekend and I saw a Steel Grey 6 (first 6 I've seen in Peoria, so I guess it plays there as well ^_^) stark-naked. It was beautiful (of course), and while the grille seemed to stand out a bit more than normal (I've always liked the grille despite never liking chrome all that much) it made me that much more eager to get my hands on one.

I read a review in the Chicago Tribune today on the 6s, and the writer (Jim Mateja) really liked the car overall (I'm sure it's online as well). However, he mentioned that the 6 had only sold 18,000 units as of May. I'm not sure how true that is, but it does seem low in comparison to expectations. Any thoughts on that?

johnclineii

He also said the wagon was due in January with the hatchback a few months later. That kind of surprised me, as it doesn't jibe with the news that Mazda Customer Care is disseminating.

As for fewer transmission repairs with manuals, I have had several manual cars and many automatics. All told, I have probably spent two thousand dollars for clutches and one flywheel on my manuals (the flywheel was on a Chevette, notorious for low quality manuals). I have never spent a dime on an unscheduled automatic transmission repair, and I normally keep cars til 80-120k miles. I DO change fluids when scheduled.

glideslopes

As of June 1st I believe Mazda had sold a tad over 50,000 combined 6i and 6s. I believe I saw this in an article the other day. I could be wrong.

Mark.

segundo

New owner of a 6s and I love the driving experience. I tried it on the ortega highway yesterday and it handled real nice on the curves. Downshifting in the curves with the manumatic was fun but to find out what gear you're in you have to look at the dash because you can't tell what gear you're in by feeling where the shifter's thrown. Still learning the feel of this car but so far I like it.

fowler3

at the same time, then a decade with just automatics, followed by 15 years of manual shifting Hondas. It depends a lot on the vehicle you buy whether it should be AT or MT and what you expect of it, or better yet, what the engineers designed the tranny and the car to expect from you.

With manuals, I have often been in the wrong gear at the wrong time trying to get out of tricky traffic situations. With automatics, I have had the frustration of the tranny not downshifting soon enough, in similar traffic situations, or in the case of Hondas a pronounced downshift lag that made my situation worse.

The Manu-matic might help in some of these situations, but usually you are too busy to think about using it, or manually downshifting an AT.

Don't tell me you are always in the right gear at the right time! All MT drivers have those moments that bring out certain verbal exclamations!

Buy what suits you best and don't make judgements because others choose an AT over an MT. The Pros for an AT these days have more to do with complex stereos, CD players, cellphones, navigation displays and, brushing your teeth on the way to work than sporty driving. Try managing all these and watching traffic ahead with an MT.

fowler3

johnclineii

...and exceptionally heavy stop and go traffic in large metropolitan areas is another pro for an automatic.

p100

One advantage of a manual transmisison over automatic that nobody mentioned is that the brakes last much longer on a manual transmission car if you use the engine for braking correctly by downshifting at the right time. I have found this to be the case. I had automatic cars with V8s that would go through front pads every 30K miles. With manuals I can get 60-80K miles out of the original set of brake pads.

Overall, I think that manual transmission cars are more fun as you are in better control of the vehicle. If you live in an area where heavy bumper-to-bumper traffic is the norm, then auto is obviously a better choice.

Also, if a vehicle does not have a powerful engine, manual transmission can liven things up quite a bit. I wish I had a manual transmission in my Mercedes 300 SD because a 120 HP turbodiesel coupled to an auto transmission in a 4000 lb car is not very responsive. But no manual transmission was ever offered in this car. On the other hand it was offered in Mercedes 240D. Automatic transmission in that car is a joke, because even with manual the car is agonizingly slow to accelerate.

vocus

I was on CarsDirect comparing the Accord, Altima, and Mazda6 pricing. I found that the 6i the way I would think about it was $23,645 (Sport Pkg., auto., 6CD changer, Premium Pkg., sport grille, ABS & side curtains, sunroof). The Altima was $22,111 I think (2.5S, auto., airbags/ABS, 6CD, sunroof, etc). The Accord was actually the cheapest of the bunch (EX 4cyl auto.) at $20,919. I was thoroughly shocked.

carguy58

The Altima and Accord don't have a sport package and sport grille.

oufan1

Bought my Red Flame 6i w/ sports package w/ MT, moonroof and leather on May 14th. Ive put over 1k mi on it, half of which was driving home from the dealer. It was the closest one w/ those options and the dealer refused to trade w/ the local dealer, but they gave me $1ooo off the sticker and 2.9% financing. I really didnt want the leather and especially the comfort package but now that I have it Im pleased. Love the way it handles and drives and just love the metallic OU crimson red. Just hoping it will be as reliable as my 89 MX6GT was. I have not had any rattles or problems so far.--by the way, both local dealers said i could not order a sport package w/ MT as the factory was no longer taking orders for these until the 04 model in Sept. I found the 6 to be the best combo of sportiness, value, fun-to-drive practical 4dr i could find, and I tried anything i could find w/ MT and 4 doors including BMW, VW and Acura and many more. the 6 was the clear winner for me. A used Passat in red w/MT would have been my 1st choice (only because i am a firm believer in the value of buying used) but couldnt find one. Believe me im not sorry I couldnt find a used one.

vocus

That would only be $800 or so in difference. The price is about $3000 off still...

carguy58

I think dealers are discounting the 6 a little bit now too. I don't think are dealers are discounting Accord's and Altima's. You have to look at that too.

kdshapiro

I regularly get over 40K on brakes with an A/T car. But I agree with fowler's comment about being in the wrong gear. Although with my current car, depressing the gas pedal to the floor solves the wrong gear at the wrong time problem.

mazdamarla

Estimated production date of June 23, ETA first week of July. Now we're gettin' somewhere!

vcjumper

Must be a bit of a dog with the auto tranny on the 4 cylinder compared to the Alty?

buggywhip

Vocus's pricing comparo from carsdirect is totally accurate. I've priced the Mazda6, Alt, Acc repeatedly and the Mazda6 is ALWAYS the most expensive (option for option)---really blows my mind. And yes, the Accord is always the most reasonably priced for the $$$$.............Here in MA, however, I've seen the 6 advertised in the newspaper for $15,200..........the 6 had better figure out its market niche FAST. The new Galant is coming soon--it's a huge car with lotsa power. And Hyundai is REALLY pushing its Sonata lately. I'm not sure the 6 will survive.

mazda6s

Hey, I wish I could get a date!

cookie01

Earlier someone asked about a front mask.
I have one and I really like it. Looks good on my Grey w/ sport. Bought if from the mazdastuff.com guys in Texas and they are excellent to work with. Since then I've also got a cargo net for the trunk. Also a cool thing to have.

I don't run the mask all the time. I use it for longer trips and for areas I know will have gravel or loose rock on the road (like driving out to my parents in the WAY OUT country).

It was pretty easy to install and is a snap to take back off. So far, (fingers crossed) I have no front rock chips.

jgriff

cookie01 :: A big Thanks for the reply on the bra. I thougth no one was going to post anything. You've had No problems with movements and or scratches ??

I too was planning to only use the bra on long trips, maybe during the winter when the salt & sand hits the streets.

I hate getting rock chips. Plus I'm the KING of safe parking, and now have my wife trained as well.

MT vs. AT :: 4-cyl MT is a must have, 6-cyl can go either way depending on your personal driving desires.

newcar31

"I too was planning to only use the bra on long trips, maybe during the winter when the salt & sand hits the streets."

I wouldn't use a bra during the winter. The salt and sand will get trapped underneath the bra and ruin your paint.

mazda6s

Your price comparison is a little off. You may or may not be able to actually get a car at the CarsDirect price, and their pricing has been known to be a little weird at times. But, if you like the EX-AT and can buy it for $20,919, I'd say go for it as this is almost $2000 under the MSRP of $22860. If you compare the actual MSRP prices for the Accord and Mazda6 you'll see that they're pretty close (I've done it). The comparison is a little difficult to do because of the Honda one-size-fits-all marketing and Mazda's weirdo option combos, but it you stick to the basics it comes out about the same. If you like the cars equally and price is the main concern, then it depends which model has the equipment combos you like better. In the case of the Accord, you might not be able to get the equipment you want at all. In the case of the Mazda6, it may be difficult to get what you want due to the current option combos. Of course that will probably change for 2004 for the Mazda, but you can count on Honda to stick with their current marketing strategy as it seems to work just fine.

jgriff

newcar31 :: I'm trying to determine which is the lesser of 2 evils of using or not using a bra & when.

I guess I'm just too darn anal. At least black is a lot easier to touch-up than some other colors.

carguy58

The new Galant doesn't look any good to me really. The Sonata is a good car for the money. Mitsubishi will probably get passed by Mazda again in sales. Mitsu sales are really down this year. Mazda sales are off this year but not as bad as Mitsu's.

boxfan

"The new Galant is coming soon--it's a huge car with lotsa power."
Recipe for success in this country.

"I'm not sure the 6 will survive. "
It'll survive worldwide since it's selling really well in Europe and Australia. Mazda is still planning on making the hatchback and wagon here, so they're not giving up on it yet. They'll have to give big discounts on the auto 6i if it ends up being more expensive than an Accord or Altima, but with less low-end torque and less room.

Maybe it'll end up being a low-production niche car and Ford will end up making a lot more Futuras (6 platform but bigger).

newcar31

I've seen what happens when people use their bra in the winter. One of my buddies left his on the whole winter one year. When he took it off, there were scratches AND paint chips from the sand getting stuck in there. The exposed metal from the scratches and chips was rusting badly because it was constantly being subjected to moisture and salt. The paint was also PEELING off of the bumper cover because of the sand, salt and trapped moisture.

cookie01

jgriff:
I live in the Northwest, and they don't use any salt here, but they do use sand, plenty of it!! when it's icy or snowy.

I plan to put the bra on for icy/snow days, and take it off when I get home. I think the biggest mistake is to leave it on for long periods of time and let stuff get under there.
So far I've had NO scratchs or stuff get caught under the mask. As I said, it's very easy to get off (a bit longer to put on) so making sure nothing is stuck under there has been easy.
Also (I'm sure you already know this), don't put it on a dirty car. I wash my car at least once a week, so this is easy for me.

vocus

I go by invoice prices actually. In this day, time, and market, I don't plan to pay any more than that for any car out there. I think the weird options combos have something to do with the prices, but still. The Accord has more power, more room inside, a more luxurious ride, and better fuel economy at a lower price, for now. The driving experience would have to be a great one for me to pay more for the '6, or else I would have to find one heck of a good price.

gee35coupe

50,000 Mazda 6's. That was funny.

http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp

mazda6s

Since invoice prices for most cars are about 91% of MSRP, what I said still holds true. I think both the Mazda6 and Accord should be available at pretty close to invoice, by way of incentives or sub'd financing. Wait til the '04 Mazda6 hits the lots in 2 or 3 months. They'll be giving away the left-over '03 models.

carguy58

at least they are up. I am expecting them to sell around 52,000. Those option packages burned sales though.

carguy58

Thasts unbelieveable how Corolla sales are up. It may surpass the Accord in sales this year. Who would have thought? I guess Toyota moved up the Corolla to Jetta territory.

mazda6s

Given the May YTD number of 18398 and assuming sales for the remainder of the year are like that of the month of May, the total will about 53000 for the year.
A while back I saw an ariticle in Automotive News that said the sales goal was 75000. Even though it appears sales are picking up, I doubt if they'll break 60000. Here come the rebates!
I suspect that eventually they'll get it up to about 6000/month.

jgriff

Yes indeed, Mazda needs to simplify their MZ6 line-up, much like Honda 2 trim lines LX & EX, with either 4-cyl / 6-cyl. And then have a few dealer installed options. Toyota is another manufacture that also has a problem with too many al-cart items.

About the only real reason I bought mine as it was, is that it suited my wife needs just fine. Thus allowing me to see how well Mazda products are built, in case I’m really interested in another MZ6 or maybe even the RX8.

mazda6s

That works for Honda, but not too many other makes except for luxury cars. Mazda just needs to clean up the option confusion and make combos that make sense to consumers. Two trim levels for each model (i/s) with a few well-chosen option packages would help, sort of like how Nissan does the Altima. And maybe they should stop outsourcing their market research to the lowest bidder.

I hope they're automatically recording the configurations that people set up and search for on the www.mazdausa.com web site. MNAO - if you're reading this that's a hint.

the_big_h

is awesome!

last night I was driving down the road, and lo and behold, I was approaching a titanium Mazda6s w/ Sports pkg from behind.

The taillights definitely look much cooler than the new Accords.

as I drive past it, I was checking out the front lighting in my rearview mirror. man! those multi-element projector style headlights, along with the accessory corner lights surrounding it, it really looks nice!!!

the_big_h

Mazda6 looks really nice in motion???

audia8q

Of the people who have come into our showroom, we can not document any sales lost due to the option packaging....Plenty of other reasons but that isnt one of them.

mazda6s

Gee secretly loves the Mazda6s (likes it even more than the Accord) but doesn't want to openly admit it. So, the constant trashing. It's just a diversionary tactic.

newcar31

I don't know what the deal is, but SOMETHING is going on in Gee's head. No normal person would constantly post sales numbers of his/her car of choice vs. their competetitors.

mazda6s

Personally, if they make the SAB/SAC package standard on the '04 MZ6 S I'll be all set (I don't need no stinkin' options). Otherwise I'll have to order one.

Just curious - what would you say are the biggest reasons people choose not to get the MZ6? Sometimes when people don't like something they just go away and nobody knows why. Like when you get a pushy (or sleazy) salesperson, you might not call the manager and complain, but you might not go back to that dealership either. People are funny that way.

mazda6s

"No normal person would constantly post sales numbers of his/her car of choice vs. their competetitors."

LOL. Maybe he thinks we forgot that the Mazda6 will never sell like the Accord/Camry/Altima, and the best Mazda can hope for would be numbers like the Passat? But seriously though, it does prove which car sells better. Kinda like how McDonalds sells more hamburgers than Burger King (or is it the other way around, dang it I forgot again).

glideslopes

Sorry about that post. I ment to say year end total sales would probably be around 50,000 units. Didn't mean to confuse you.

Mark. : )

audia8q

We use an outside company that contacts our customers who do not purchase....the information has been very helpful in our marketing. The top reason for not buying the MZ6 was the ride the second was the size. People seem to love or hate the ride. The Passat is the run away second choice of our MZ6 buyers, if they didn't buy the MZ6 the Passat would be the one. Oddly, the Passat is very low on the list of people who decided to purchase "other" than the MZ6. This list shows no clear winner over the MZ6....its all over the place, but the Accord is the slight leader. A big percentage of our MZ6 customers who did not purchase a MZ6 went to a different catagory of car (SUV, mini-van, large car, etc)