Mazda6 Sedan

regfootball

a) the Mazda6 ride IS FINE. Who are the fools who don't like it and why?

b) size........there is a LOT of room in the 6. The car itself looks small, but is just as big inside as a friggin Accord. Very space efficient. Just that all the fools out there shopping have been buying big fat SUV's for so long now they automatically equate bigger = more room which is a surprise since SUV's are not that roomy.

The option packaging totally blows on the 6.......why no ABS on the base unless you get a bunch of stuff? Why can't you get sunroof and leather alacarte?

I'm not fond of most colors on the 6 either. The Protege5 yellow is much nicer, why does the 6 yellow bite so much? and all these other muted greys and greens......the blue is nice. WHY not a basic red or is that wildfire red? Most 6's I see are a real dull color that is too understated.

The basic shape of the 6 is rather dull too....only when you get the sport package or appearance package does the car begin to look exciting. Of course the Accord is dull too but the basic Mazda6 alone is not gonna outdo the cleanliness of the Passat shape. Its also a little too Aero and roundish for this period in time when blunt and edgy is the rage. Also the 6 has a MAMMOTH front end overhang........unsightly.

And the biggest flaw of all, where are the wagon and hatch?

And lets get the hp up on the 4 cylinder and the 6 cylinder also, another 20 for each....why not a turbo four? Even though the 6 cyl is reasonably quick the market place

All that said, the 6 is still a really good car that shouldn't be selling as sparse as it is.

Maybe if Mazda would join the incentive and cheap lease brigade it would help too.

mazda6s

Thanks for the info. I guess things aren't always what they appear to be. If somebody likes the Mazda6, I suppose they find an option combo they they can compromise on. I know I would like to get a 6s-MT with just SAB/SAC and Sport Package, but you can't get it that way, so I can live without the Sport Package.

audia8q

The only thing I know for sure.....the people here on edmunds are so far from the "typical" mz6 buyer we have sold cars to it's almost like we are talking about a different car...

also...many people come in with a very clear understaning of what they want...but after spending some time on the lot with real live cars and they usually leave with some sort of compromise.....some features mean nothing until you experience them.

silvercrown

I think our MZ6's will probably be "born" around the same time, or at least be in the same nursery. LOL

My salesman told me that with a build date of 6/23, the approx. ETA would be mid-July, taking into account for the holiday. Either way, it looks like we should be getting our cars around the same time.

One of my co-workers is going to try and arrange a tour so that I can see how they build the 6. Now that I have my VIN, he's going to try and time it so that I can actually see my car being built right before it's finished. This may not happen, but just the idea of it is exciting. How cool would that be to watch my own car in the building process. I'm probably about 30 to 45 minutes from Flat Rock, so all I need is permission to enter and I'm there!

I keep seeing blue MZ6's around town. So far I've seen about 6 Lapis Blue, 2 White, 4 Silver, 1 Black, 1 Red and 1 Yellow (actually this was my friend's car and it was in the parking lot) on the road. Most of the ones I've seen have the Sport Package (or maybe the Appearance package). I haven't seen any Steel Grey or Sepang Green 6's on the road around here yet. But I'm seeing more MZ6's than before and I expect to see even more as summer arrives. But hopefully, not toooooo many more. Just kidding. :-)

fowler3

*The only thing I know for sure.....the people here on edmunds are so far from the "typical" mz6 buyer we have sold cars to it's almost like we are talking about a different car...*

And I wouldn't be surprised if the "typical" MZ6 buyers do not haunt Edmunds.com and many may not have computers at all. This board is populated by "enthusiasts"; not commuters, not Sunday drivers. But even the majority of enthusiasts do not post here.

I think the main reason Mazda is having problems with options is that they have never offered as many for one car before the MZ6. Whether "i" or "s" it is the same car. They are trying to make it a niche car and many of the options should be grouped as "Safety", "Performance", and "Luxury". ABS/TC should be standalone along with the Moonroof. And there should be a third stereo upgrade option between the stock stereo and the Bose, maybe just a speaker upgrade.

What are the speakers on the stock stereo -- 6 tweeters? LOL!

And I agree with regfootball, the color choices suck. The gray interior trim is too dark, the dash, steering wheel, and upper door panels should be black, not the dirty-looking charcoal grey Mazda uses. With a black dash top, steering wheel, and door panels the rest should be a lighter grey to contrast with Steel Grey, Lapis Blue, and the Black better.

Some have complained the Moonroof is too small. I wonder if it is the same one used on the Protegé to save production costs? Maltb, do you know?

The more I look at the MZ6, and I go on most Sundays, the more I appreciate my Protegé. There are a lot of similarities which make me question paying $24K for the 6 as little as I drive. Where's the value?

fowler3

xplorx4

Those of you who have your cars on order, what did you pay for the car? MSRP? Marked up MSRP? a percentage over invoice?

The reason I ask is that my "dream MZ6" is a Lapis Blue, V6, AT, Gray Leather, Bose, Sport, Comfort, SAB/SCA, moonroof, homelink.

However, based on a dealer inventory search across several major metro CA areas, I cannot find this combination of options. It appears that the Sport package (which for the most part seems to be bundled with the SAB/SCA) is a rarity, especially when combined with blue paint. There are a lot of cars that have the appearance package, though, which unfortunately lack the side airbags.

regfootball

The Ion's sunroof is like twice as big as the 6's. Of course though, that's about the only thing the Ion has going for it.

mjvchicago

The moonroof is just fine for me! But I think there's a crossmember right behind the moonroof that would prohibit it from being any bigger. Can anyone confirm this? The crossmember would give the car greater rigidity... I know the WRX has the same thing going for it, and it's moonroof is even smaller.

b4z

Did you sell your Impala and buy a Mazda6?

mazdamarla

Silvercrown, that would be VERY cool to watch your very own car being built. Although, if it were me, I can imagine being super-anal about every little thing the line people were doing. "Hey! Watch that!" "Quit being so rough over there!" "Are you sure that's in the exact right place?" LOL.

I have so far seen 1 black, 1 steel gray, 1 or 2 silvers (don't know if they're the same car or not - once was parked in a driveway, another time a woman was behind the wheel - both had the sport package). Have not seen any Blue, Redfire, White, Sepang (although there's a poster on the other board with this color who lives in my town!) or Yellows on the road, other than at the dealership(s). So I should have the first/only Speed Yellow that's not still a dealer car, in my town! Whoo-hoo!

And I agree with pretty much everything fowler said above, too, about the option packaging, etc.

audia8q

It's too late to factory order a MZ6...at this point any MZ6 factory order would be a regional match...if the region/zone has an built unsold unit with your combo's the dealer will get the car allocated...but if there is no exact match and the dealer does not have the earnings, the order will be ignored...

cookie01

The 2000 Impala was a leased car. At the time I could not afford the loan payments, so just leased it.

When it came time for the lease to be up I was very torn. The car was Awesome the whole time I'd had it. But I was starting to get that ticking in the steering column. I never had the shop look at it as it was on and off and I could never guess when it would tick. (I could actually feel the ticking in the column when the car was in motion).

So I let the leased Imp go and I bought the Mz6s.
There are things I miss about the Impala, but I sure love to drive this car. It's very much a driver's car.

xplorx4

Thanks for the info. Even though order-taking is closed now, I'm curious to know purchase price negotiations for ordered vehicles. If a buyer orders their car, what is the price that is paid? Is it just flat MSRP, or can you negotiate a lower price?

b4z

Glad you are enjoying the Mazda6. We are losing quite a few long time Impala posters to other cars.
I have enjoyed my Impala immensely but am looking for something with better quality materials and
a OHC motor for smoothness and refinement.

audia8q

Of course you can haggle the price...but remember, supply and demand will determin the pricing. You can always work your best deal on an in-stock car

carguy58

1.) Crazy Option Packaging
2.) The Ford effect: Everybody who owned a 1994-1995 626 or Mx-6 auto 4 cylinder will proabably never touch a Mazda ever again.
3.) Mazda changing their direction of buyer: The Millenia and prev gen 626 were more bread and butter. Mazda's is going toward a younger audience so when you are trying to change your brand image from where it was 10 years prior you are going to lose those "bread and butter customers".
4.) Mazda is considered a step town to Toyota and Honda buyers.
5.) Mazda is not acclaimed for their reliability as Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are.

avanteguy

the deal you get does not depend on if the car is in stock or not the cost is the same.

the_big_h

if you weren't starting off with that many 'bread and butter' customers, does it really matter?

"Mazda is not acclaimed for their reliability as Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are."

I've never considered Nissans to be AS reliable as Honda/Toyota.

carguy58

Nissan has good reliability. The Maxima and Altima have always been reliable.

As for the bread and butter theory its going to take Mazda time to rediscover its sport image with buyers that it had in the late 80's/early 90's.

cmartin411

You hit the nail on the head.

gee35coupe

carguy58

The Accord and Camry have always grown in size. The 6 is smaller than the 2. Mazda is trying to diffrentaite from the Camry and Accord crowd by being "sporty" and offering a smaller car. Mazda has to work harder to attract those buyers who want a little room in their car but also don't want a conservative looking Camry or Accord with interior room they don't need. I have heard Accord owners say the car has alot of room(I get the impression they mean "excess room".)What Mazda is doing is what Cadillac has already done: change its image. With Cadillac it was easier because Cadillac has the buy American theme going for it and of course everybody knows what a Cadillac is.

avanteguy

(to #11588) i don't mean to upset you , in no way am i trying to insult you ,but i strongly think you should do a bit more home work on the mazda product , i do agree with 1,3 of your messages ,or could you just be expressing your thoughts, cause if that is that case ,iam sorry .
everyone should be able to say what they think .

mazda6s

I agree with your top 5 reasons, except for #3. The Mazda6 appeals to a wide range of ages. The appeal is more personality-focused than age-ficused, like "driver-oriented FWD family sedan". Mazda tried to get the "bread and butter" customers with the last gen 626 and failed, so they're returning to what they do best. Honda and Toyota (and to a lesser extent, Nissan) are so successful because they consistently satisfy 80% of customers in the HUGE midsize sedan market. That's all you need, so why should they take a chance? But, that leaves the rest of us to shop Mazda or VW or something else. Look at the VW Passat sales of maybe 6000/month. Does anyone think VW needs the Passat to be a "bread and butter" car? If they can move 70000-80000 units per year in the US, that's OK with them. It's the same for the Mazda6.

moty

I just saw in AdAge (don't know if it is OK to attach the post) that the VP responsible for the dreaded "Zoom-Zoom" ad campaign resigned.

Maybe Mazda will start pushing their car a little bit better now.

cookie01

The first thing you'd notice in the move from your Imp to a Mz6 is the size. Both inside and out.
I actually love the fact that I can park in a regular space and not worry about every door banging into my side. Plus my Mz6 has a pretty nice chrome door guard that does a great job. Also, I can turn it around in the parking lot, or hang a U-y pretty easy in the Mazda.
Also, the 6-cyl has more horsepower and weighs a lot less than the Impala.
Drawbacks would be the lack of DRLs (I really loved those. NEVER had to turn on or off the lights), auto off interior lights (my kid is always leaving the overhead lights on in the back seat, and I need to remember to reach back and turn them off so the battery doesn't run down). And homelink... My Impala had it, this Mazda doesn't. I know I can get it aftermarket, but with installation it's a riduculous $350+ !!!! Forget it. But I do miss it.
I would get an Impala again, but when they come up with better interior materials, better paint job (the Mazda's paint is TOP notch)And a decent interior color scheme. I had blue interior, it was the only one I could stand. But now you can't get it anymore... sigh.

glideslopes

I'm surprised this does not come up more often. The paint on my 6s is beautiful. No peel, and looks a mile thick. Perfect distribution of the flake in the paint. Very high quality.

There are numerous complaints on terrible paint quality in competitors forums. (H)

But then again, we are a step down from them. Too funny.

Mark.

mazda6s

Perception is 90% of reality.

boxfan

carguy--personally, I agree with ALL your explanations. Mazda made the 6 for all markets, so it's too small for the US market. They're too small a company to do what Honda does: the Accord is three cars- small (TSX/European Accord), medium (US Accord), and large (TL). Obviously there are differences in price, sportiness and luxury between those three but my understanding is that they share a lot of components. the 6 is trying to cover both the TSX and Accord niches here, so it's a compromise.

Also...am I missing something? Mazda's goal was 70K cars a year, and for may they sold almost 5K, which would come to almost 60K per year, which isn't so far off. Given the problems with marketing, the misjudgment of which models would sell, and the economy, that doens't sound so bad to justify all this gloom-n-doom.

mazda6s

A lot of cars share a lot of components, but that doesn't make them the same car. Imagine all those TL owners finding out they really have an Accord!

You could make the same argument about size for the TSX, Audi A4, and BMW 3-series, but that doesn't keep many people from buying one.

The bottom line is if somebody isn't willing to give up a little interior size for a little zoom-zoom, the Mazda6 isn't the car for them.

miata10ae

Instead of being negative lets be positive:

1) Needed a 4-dr sporty sedan.
2) Mazda's reliability! (I owned Mazda's, mainly 323s and an '87 RX7) and never had a single problem with them.
3) I didn't want to follow the herd.
4) Best good looking sedan in that price range.
5) It is made from the company that brought you the legendary RX-7 and the rotary engine.

cookie01

Other than head room, I seriously have not missed the "interior size" of my Impala in the 6.
Maybe I was just ready to move a bit smaller. But the back seat is very comfy and I feel every bit as able to get into a good driving position in the Mazda as I did in the Chevy. In fact, with a telescopic wheel, the Mazda actually fits me better than the Chev.

I think people overestimate how much room they "need" in a car. Of course, very tall or very big people are going to be more comfortable in a Large car.
My sister has the new Accord. I've been a passenger in that car several times since she bought in Nov. I see NO difference in "interior room" from her car to mine.

As for other differences....heheheheh... too many to mention.

robr2

Not to belabor it, but selling 60K when the goal is 70K is missing the target by over 14%. Put it into real numbers: 10,000 units by let's assume $2000 gross profit per unit is $20 million in missed revenue. That's a lot of money.

On a positive note, the 6 is a better seller than the 626 and Millenia combined.

mazda6s

Yes, but you could also argue that if the goal was 70k and you reached it, the target was obviously set too low!

robr2

You could argue that, but it would be a poor argument IMHO. If someone can properly argue that the goal was too low because it was achieved, then it was a poor number (ie goal sell 10K units, result 100K). Goals must be measurable, realistic and attainable. Any goal not meeting that criteria is a worthless goal.

The number (whatever it is) was determined by looking at numerous factors. If the marketing staff could not achieve it, there will/should be changes.

kenoka

It's encouraging that sales are climbing every month. However I do think that Mazda is very disappointed with the way sales have gone. Given the resignation of the President, then the ad manager, I think the disappointment is evident. They set a very conservative sales target in every market and blew it away. In both Japan and Europe the 6 is selling double their original targets. Here we aren't even on pace to match it.

the_big_h

heads have to roll if you are selling essentially the same product, yet other markets are WAY more successful than you are...

I do think zoom-zoom should stay though, people are finally associating this catchphrase with Mazda

(just the other day, out of the blue, a friend of mine asked me, "do you drive a Mazda?" simply because my AIM screen name has 'zoomzoom' in it)

mazda6s

Like I said, Americans are stupid. Not sure about the Canadians, though.

toolman02

Stranger: "What kind of car is that?"
Me: "It's a Mazda 6."
Stranger: "It doesn't look very big."
Me: "It's a bit smaller than other family sedans."
Stranger: "Is it fast?"
Me: "Not extremely. But it's fast enough."
Stranger: "So you got it because it looks cool?"

The mentality here in America seems to be: Why buy a smaller and slower car when you can get one bigger and faster for the same price?

mazda6s

Yeah, Super-Size it!

b4z

I have had the Impala for 2 years(June 1st) and 41,000 miles.
I am almost almost 6'8" so legroom is important. I can usually deal with lower headroom as long as the winshield header is not low or there is a sunroof that intrudes.

The main issue is that automakers have poured billions into development of SUV's over the last 10 years and us car buyers have suffered.
GM's FWD sedans don't do it for me because they have pushrods. The Impala SS and Grand prix have cheap materials and too many design compromises to be really sporty.

My next car will probably be the '04 CTS with the new 255hp 3.6L VVT engine. I have priced one out at 34K MSRP which is more than I should be spending.
I will drive everything bfore I make my choice.
Mazda 6, Mercury Marauder, maybe even the Honda.
Don't think I will ever be a truck person.
Although the Chevy Avalanche without the body hardware is kind of cool and under 30K.

johnclineii

And I have had my Impala for three years and 123,000 miles. Like you, I will NOT be buying another. I want a Mazda6 hatch with Sirius as a factory install. We will just have to see!

glideslopes

Ok, let's beat it some more. North America is a problem. No question. In the rest of the world Mazda is on a roll. Sales are way up, as well as profits.

Gotta love Americans. Accords, Camrys, Burger King, Wendys, and size 44 waists.

Kind of puts MZ6 sales in perspective if you ask me.

Mark.

b4z

This data is thru the end of May from autosite.com

I have picked out specific sedans that we have talked about in the last couple of days:

Camry 170,351
Accord 163,055
Impala 112,570
Altima 80,411
Grand Am 55,002
Intrepid 42,588
Grand Prix 41,031
Legacy 33,420
Passat 25,168
CTS 21,358
Mazda 6 18,938 4,930 were sold in May which is about 60,000 per year.

fowler3

Europe and Japan even though their economies are also down, BUT they do not have the threat of attacks that America does, nor are they in two wars at the same time. All of which make buyers conservative spenders until the future looks better.

As for Honda in Europe, the Acura is sold there as a big...Honda, it has the Honda badge on it. Only in America (and Canada probably) is it sold as the Acura.

Maybe the TL IS just a stretched Accord. And Zoom Zoom isn't as far out of line as Pontiac's marketing of "Wide Track" -- which was really only 1-inch wider than Chevies. Sheesh, that really made a difference I'll bet.

About those "bread and butter buyers", I think what was meant is "bread and butter cars", the lower priced, fewer featured models dealers use to sell a lot of, which the 6 isn't. Most cars now come loaded, no strippers, they don't sell. You can't find a car on dealers' lots that doesn't have A/C, which "bread and butter cars" usually didn't have.

Look at the cars traveling salesmen buy or lease, they use to be strippers, but now they are up-market and loaded to the gills, symbols of their success.

fowler3

mazda6s

The Grand Am will outsell the Mazda6 2-to-1 this year. Now that's something to think about.

boxfan

The Accord/TSX/TL share the same platform. I don't know how much of the car is really the same. Whatever. The 6 is trying to fill both the Accord and TSX niches in this country.

"You could make the same argument about size for the TSX, Audi A4, and BMW 3-series, but that doesn't keep many people from buying one."
Well, of those three cars, only the BMW sold more than the 6 in May, 6400 vs 4900, and the 3-series is The Standard for compact sports sedans. I know, the TSX is new, but the target for sales here is low--15K? 30K? Something like that. Of course these cars are in different price categories, so it's an apples-oranges thing.

b4z- I appreciate your list. Seems to me the 6 could reasonably shoot for Passat or Legacy territory. Those are both cars that I see a lot of and that people know about. Similar size, similar niche appeal.

mazda6s

"The 6 is trying to fill both the Accord and TSX niches in this country."

I understand what you're saying, but I doubt if Mazda set out take sales away from potential TSX buyers. That niche is too small. I think it was more like "let's get our sales from those buyers that might buy an Accord, Altima, or Camry but want something a little more sporty and fun to drive". Call it the "left-over" midsize market if you like, consisting of those 10-20% of midsize buyers that the other auto makers ignore because they don't matter when you're selling 400000 units per year. The midsize market is huge enough that you can be successful with even a small piece of the market.

ian2

How many of those are fleet sales?

markjenn

I believe the Chevy Cavalier outsells every model Mazda makes, but that doesn't make it a good car. Chevy has probably 5x the number of dealers that Mazda has and sells a ton of fleet cars. And they cater to a completely different (and larger) market.

The absolute number of sales doesn't mean much, but the comparison of how a car is selling relative to its market and direct competitors tells a lot. And there is no doubt the 6 is selling relatively poorly in the states.

I have no issue with the market not finding the 6 as compeling as competing cars - the Accord, Camry, Altima, TSX, and others are really good cars and selling a car on nimbleness/handling vs. size/power is always a tricky thing.

But that doesn't excuse the ineptness of Mazda in the way they have marketed this car. How many posts have we heard where potential buyers have been put off by lack of inventory, poor option packages, inability to order the car they want, or just general rudeness at the dealership level? And how many posts have we had about people saying they're on the sidelines waiting for ridiculously slow-to-market hatch and wagon? And why isn't Mazda able to streamline the order process so they can at least match the order-to-delivery times of overseas mfgs such as BMW who have a three-week overseas shipping handicap?

Properly marketed and built/delivered in a more timely manner, I have no doubt whatsoever that the Mazda 6 would have met expectations and possibly done even better.

I'm not convinced they can recover from this. The Millenia was a good car, but got off on the wrong foot. Mazda took the lack of sales to mean that they shouldn't invest further in the car and it just whithered on the vine. I'm sure there are people right now in boardrooms talking about cutting their losses and building a completely different car (larger, more powerful, more luxurious), not unlike what Honda did with the orginial Odyssey minivan.

I think the tell-tale signal of Mazda's faith in the 6 will be how aggressively they supply a complete range of models for the upcoming hatch/wagon and whether they make any substantial changes for 2004. If we get only limited options and engines, don't get a very aggressive, high-performance hatch, and get basically the same sedan in 2004 as 2003, then I think we'll know that Mazda has lost the faith in the 6 for the US market and we'll be seeing a different car in a couple years.

Just my $0.02.

- Mark