Mazda6 Sedan

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  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "plus you can get the v6 with the manual transmission."

    This is the BIG difference, though I'm sure somebody from the Accord camp will have a reason why it's "better" not to have a V6-MT Accord, or at least that it makes more marketing sense. ;)
  • motymoty Member Posts: 5
    Thank you for the information on how a car seat fits in the car. My point being that this may be a more meaningful measure of whether the rear room is adequate than the leg room, since often kid+carseat is bulkier than an adult, and kids feet tend to hit in a different place than where an adults knees would. For example, in our van, our son's shoes line up perfectly with the grab handle at the back of the seat, effectively decreasing clearance by 3 inches.

    In my area NJ/PA they just passed laws that require seats until the child is 8. (NJ 8 years or 80 lbs, PA 8 years AND 80 lbs). So this is not a temporary situation.

    Bean and Chickoo thank you very much for your pearls of wisdom about parenting, it is a miracle that our children lived this long under our care.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    That was me who just test drove the CTS.

    Handling and cornering are much more than just skidpad and slalom numbers.

    When I was in high school I thought that the
    car that could pull .82g was better than the car that could do .81g.
    It doesn't work that way in the real world.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Early on when the DW and I were driving the Accord and the 6 back to back, it was the Hip Room that I really noticed in the 6.

    Mark.
  • accord7accord7 Member Posts: 96
    If the Mazda6 had a Honda engine and was badged a Honda, it would likely sell in great volumes. Accord shoppers would see it as a sporty alternative. The Honda reputation along with the sleek design and handling would sell far more 6's than Mazda can. The Accord would be for the luxury buyers, 6 for sporty buyers. None of this will ever happen, of course, but it's interesting to think about the lure of the H logo.
  • fcaronfcaron Member Posts: 1
    Anyone knows the exact cutoff RPM?
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    IIRC...
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Member Posts: 621
    "If the Mazda6 had a Honda engine and was badged a Honda, it would likely sell in great volumes. Accord shoppers would see it as a sporty alternative. The Honda reputation along with the sleek design and handling would sell far more 6's than Mazda can. The Accord would be for the luxury buyers, 6 for sporty buyers. None of this will ever happen, of course, but it's interesting to think about the lure of the H logo. "

    They already did that. It's called an Acura TSX.
    image

    image
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    I said between the two juggernauts of the Camcord duo the Accord is the more "sporty" of the two. Even the car magazines say so. I'm not the only one with this sentiment.

    I also said my "niche" vehicle doesn't seem to be hitting it's niche. But it is meeting it's sales estimates with no factory options at all. That's my point.

    And again as far as the a-la cart options. If they went with the grouping there would be a better chance of the consumer finding a perticular car that they want already built on the lot since there wouldn't be as many variations. That's why it's rare for someone to "order" an Accord since there's no such thing as a unique one. That's also what keeps it's resale above average since if you advetise an EX, everyone knows what you are selling. When comes time to sell your 6's those of you with "unique" cars that have just what YOU wanted are gonna have to find someone else who wants that particular car's option mix. Good luck.

    In fact I just read a news article about a certain vehicle that was called a near failure for only reaching 11,201 sales in its first 6 months. Sound familiar? Those in the Atlanta area can pick up Friday's Constitution to check it out.

    V6 5 speed is a nice want but those models that have them only sell around 5-8% that way. It's just another Edmunds wish that doesn't correlate to the real world. Heck, even bona fide sports cars are being sold with more automatics than manuals these days. I mean if a V6 stick would be nice then a V8 manual would be nirvana. That combination is nearly extinct outside BMW.

    As far as the TSX being the 6. Once again we have to realize where the car comes from. The TSX is the Euro Accord. If you actually saw the previous one you'd wonder where Mazda got it's ideas and see the family resemblance in the TSX.
    http://www.part.cz/buxus/generate_page.php3?page_id=132
    Let's see here....Pentagon grill, dual exhausts, squinty little headlights, big ole basket handle wing....It's all there.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    He's like the Energizer Bunny. He just keeps going, and going, and going.......

    Mark :)
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    Nobody's been biting, which just makes him more verbose.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Who? Did someone post something? :)
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Then who was I answering?

    Besides it's hard to bite when the facts are so hard to swallow.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I think these two cars are very competitive with one another and anyone shopping for either should drive the other. You have to get the V6 in the Mazda to really play in the same power league as the 4-cyl in the TSX, and this will make the Mazda a little heavier in the nose, a little less nimble, and a little faster.

    The Mazda is cheaper, but the TSX has more standard equipment, so the prices are pretty similar once you option up a V6 6S to match the TSX.

    Again, I can't see buying one without driving the other.

    - Mark
  • buggywhipbuggywhip Member Posts: 188
    No one is "biting" b/c gee35 raises valid points that can't be disputed..........No one would EVER special-order an Accord b/c all Accords are well-equipped, perhaps excessively so. Honda has perfected option-packaging, something the 6 lags behind in. It's what Honda calls "value". And personally, I'd rather have too many options than too few--aids in resale down the line.............and the V-6/stick combo for the 6 probably represents barely 10-15 percent of combined sales. That's not enough the keep the 6 alive. Why do you think few--if any--carmakers offer that combo?? Toyota, Saturn, Mitsu all abandoned that mix long ago............so get real, MZ6 fans. To keep the 6 alive, Mazda must move lotsa non-sports-package 4cyl cars, with lotsa pre-packaged options.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Who would spend 27K on a TSX? Its a waste of money.

    As far as Honda being sporty the 96-97 Accord was just that intil Honda desided to bland down their designs and compete with Toyota more.

    As far as marketing the 6 they should just show it for what it is: a sports sedan. Its not a family car. How many people think of the VW Passat or BMW 3 Series as a family car? nobody. When we think of cars like the Camry and Tarus we think of family car. The Accord as a family car? not quite. At lot of busimess people drive them. I do agree the Accord is "sportier" than the Camry when you are driving it. The Camry is a mini-Lexus while the Accord splits the difference between the Altima's horsepower and the 6's handling.
  • livaudaislivaudais Member Posts: 55
    about the Accord: "there's no such thing as a unique one."

    CL
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "And again as far as the a-la cart options. If they went with the grouping there would be a better chance of the consumer finding a perticular car that they want already built on the lot since there wouldn't be as many variations. That's why it's rare for someone to "order" an Accord since there's no such thing as a unique one."

    Actually what it would mean is that more people would be compromising on the equipment they really want, because it's just not available without "up-sizing" to the next trim level. This is what happens with Accord buyers, because it's worth it to them to get a Honda for other reasons. I agree, Honda makes the perfect equipment levels, but only for about 80% of buyers. The rest of us are left out, as "Five-sizes-for-all" doesn't work for everyone. If you want to argue that the 20% of us aren't "normal", I wont dispute that. However, if Honda's marketing strategy always worked for everyone, all auto makers would use it.
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Member Posts: 621
    "Who would spend 27K on a TSX? Its a waste of money."

    Well, I might. Until recently, I never considered the TSX because I thought it (like other "luxury" brands) was too expensive. I haven't ever visited an Acura dealer, so I don't know much about the car or the brand, other than it's Honda's luxury nameplate. I had previously been looking for a wagon, and had driven Volvos and Subarus. And then that cool ad for '03 European Honda Wagon hit the 'net, and I changed my focus, looking for sporty-looking wagons. The upcoming 6 wagon is the only reason why I decided to check out a 6s- to see if I should wait 'til next year for the wagon, or get a Subaru now. So, after driving the 6, I am so enamored with the 6s with all the bells and whistles for just about 27K that I might forget I originally wanted a wagon! The TSX is similarly priced to a loaded 6s. So, for buyers like me, why is a $27K TSX a waste of money?
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    basically gives you everything you need and nothing more. The Domestic Big 3 have nice toys to play around with in their cars but I'm not a person that like extra toys to play with in my car. My parents like that kind of stuff I don't. As you said Honda satisfies 80% of the public so basically a quarter of the people are not satisfied which is not bad at all.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Its a waste to pay sticker. As for 27K on the 6 you must have a load of option packages on your car. Is 27K worthed on a 6 I don't know about that. Could get an Accord Coupe for 25k EX-V6 I think. I wouldn't go for a TL in for that price range because the TL is aged because it uses the last generation Accord's underpinning's. I'm not sure about the Domestic Big 3 offering in that price range. You could probably get a Dodge Stratus at a good discount. Me I'm more of a base model kind of person. I have an Acura CL with I sun-roof I never use but the Traction Control helped me this winter though: an option I would never consider on a car.
  • karld1karld1 Member Posts: 22
    Mazda6 did hit a 9 1/2 on a 1-10 scale.
    Mazda wanted to build another ZOOM ZOOM philosophy car that will not cost arm and leg and will offer great value for DRIVING enthusiasts not RELIABILITY/RESALE VALUE (Honda/Toyota) enthusiasts.
    So let's not compare it to Accord / Camry
    because those cars where build with different philosophy in mind, period.

    In europe where handling is the key, Mazda6 is very very sucsesful, received great press and it's selling well.
    Mazda6 is definitely more European than [non-permissible content removed]/American in any way (and thanks God)
    TSX is just another Honda, that recently (last few years) does not care about handling all it cares about is american market where it makes most of it's money so it is building cars that are reliable with very good resale value and give you feeling of comfort (in american way, Buick alike only better built)
    Sorry it's not my taste!

    Mazda6 is a very succesfully design and build as a driving enthusiasts car, with very good reliabilty and good resale value - and those are my priorites over boaty handling and control of the car with great resale value and reliability that Accord / Camry are offering.

    I also think reat control of the car gives you much safer car and lot less accident prone - the safest way (sounds like a Bimmer?)
    That's right Mazda6 did benchmark a 3 series not a euro Honda Accord (gee35coupe)

    With TSX we can clearly see that if Honda wants to build a driving enthusiats car like Mazda6, 3 series or A4 etc. after 5 years of building reliable/resale-value/comfortable cars it can't be done just like that with a flick of a wrist, it takes different philosophy and design team to be really succesfull at it.

    I'm sorry but I'm a driving enthusiats and I can't stand a few people that are looking for a hole in a very very sucesful car like the 6!

    Remember , there is no perfect car.

    Mazda6 with a few additions (all wheel drive, more powerfull turbo charged 2.3l, navigation system and satellite radio) may be as close as it gets to my perfect car.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I have owned both and no way is Honda Buick. It depends what your looking some people have owned both Honda and Mazda, some Honda buyers hate Mazda and vice versa. Honda doesn't go after handling as Mazda does because they don't have too. They go after the full package of vehicle. The 6's trade-off is weak low end torque where as the Accord's weak link is the exterior styling and in my mind the Accord is getting too big, like somebody said before could go into full-size category soon. The Accord and 6 get the job done just in different ways. The scary thing is I think Mazda and Honda are switching places from a few years ago. It was Honda that was getting all the young people and Mazda that was getting the average joe now its fipped around.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    I couldn't drive the cloth version since I couldn't adjust the seat the way I liked. Oh darn I had to get an EX-L and suffer with the leather, dual zone climate control, and heated seats. Life sure is hard.

    But as some have mentioned here the Accord is still cheaper than the comparable 6. It's a factor of not having all the variations at the factory. It's cheaper to build cars that way. Even if there is equipment you don't want on the car it'll probably turn out to be cheaper to buy the more loaded Honda vs. the "customized" Mazda.

    If you consider the TSX to be the "sport package" Accord you would have to consider Honda only expects to sell 15,000 of them. That's like 3% of total Accord sales. They are about 1/3 there in less than 3 months. Not a bad start. When you consider how many Camry SE's they sell vs. total sales I'm sure the percentages are equally paltry. Maybe a little better though since the SE has options.

    Of course here on Edmunds we all want V6 sticks and 250 AWD hp. But even if all of us in this forum bought Mazda6 Mazdaspeeds it wouldn't make much of a difference. It's the rest of the people out there who wouldn't know Edmunds from Yahoo that they need to buy the car. And those folk couldn't care less about skidpads or lateral g's.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Point well taken, but I know dead cow from cloth. If I have to take the former, I will shop elsewhere. PERIOD.

    I am hardly alone.

    I don't care if it costs thousands LESS, I am NOT driving a car with leather seats. That's my choice and I am sticking to it!
  • tpo1tpo1 Member Posts: 8
    The 04's have been available in Canada for several weeks.
    http://www.mazda.ca/eng/down_the_road/2004_mazda6/mazda6.html
    Noticed the Mazda U.S. site is still showing 03's
    Looks like the 04 is identical though.
    Terry O'Neill
    Calgary
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Errr. the FIRST Canadian model was the 2004, and went on sale in January. This is not the US 2004 model or the next Canadian model!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But that sure limits your choices after a certain $ point.
  • mjvchicagomjvchicago Member Posts: 149
    Was driving my MZ6s today and wondered if anyone had a line on a torque curve chart for this baby. Would love to see where exactly in the rev range Mazda engineers put the torque.
  • toolman02toolman02 Member Posts: 59
    I'm pretty sure max torque is at 5k rpms. 3.5k to 6k rpms seems to be the meat of the torque zone.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I wear it, I might as well sit on it. :)
  • 1wiseguy1wiseguy Member Posts: 120
    If you can stand looking at the 03 Accord, more power to you. I'm sure it's a great car but I didn't even drive one because I couldn't get past the way it looks. That and the V6 manual are what did it for me. So maybe I'm in the minority but I don't care. Freedom of choice.

    I bought a 6 and still like to turn around for a last glance every time I get out of it. It's a great looking car. Again, that's a choice.

    Now, please let's focus on discussing what this board is supposed to be all about- the 6. If I wanted to hear about the Accord ad infinitum ad nauseum, I would visit the Accord boards. And I don't.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I never thought I would like to have them either, but then I bought my VW with them. After experiencing the heated seats with leather on a 1000 mile drive, I will never get anything else. It's also easier to clean up small spills from friends' kids and the like when all you have to do is wipe it up.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    After experiencing leather seats in a rental car during a 1000 mile summer trip in Colorado and New Mexico, I would never own a car with them.

    I guess it's a personal preference.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Are you ONLY reading my posts? Because there's a lot more going on here.
    I don't get your point.

    By the way calling the Accord ugly in the beginning of your post then saying "let's not talk about the Accord anymore" is laughable.

    Speaking of "choice", don't many of the other members of forum have the "choice" to post too. I didn't post the TSX pics. That was someone elses' choice. Someone obviously chose to discuss comparing the two cars here.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "With TSX we can clearly see that if Honda wants to build a driving enthusiats car like Mazda6, 3 series or A4 etc. after 5 years of building reliable/resale-value/comfortable cars it can't be done just like that with a flick of a wrist, it takes different philosophy and design team to be really succesfull at it"

    the tsx may be lacking against the 3 series, but against the mazda6 you got to be kidding me. you're really flattering your car if you thinks it's in the same league as the 3 series let alone the tsx.

    take away the miata and mazda is not known for anything. and honda has the s2000 for its two seater sports car. you don't see them getting a mediocre v6 from the taurus either. i know its been modified, but it's still essentially the same engine.

    no doubt the mazda6 is very good car that's more fun to drive than an accord. but the tsx more than matches the 6's handling while retaining the refinement and quality of the accord.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    How can you compare the 6 with TSX and 3 Series? The 6 sedan does not have AWD option or RWD like 3 Series. (6 hatchback will come with AWD but not the sedan.) As far as the TSx is concerned I don't get what the big hype is. Honda wants you to spend more money because 1.) They wanted the Accord to be more-American looking so they could appeal to domestic buyers and 2.) Honda could have more Acura branded cars on the road and sell the TSx for MSRP. I would rather go with a stripped Passat instead of the TSX. Why should I buy the TSX while VW and Mazda give me more for my money? What happened to people buying cars for value?

    As far as Mazda is concerned take away the Miata and they have the RX-7 and RX-8 with the rotary engine. Mazda also made the Miller Cycle engine that appeared on Ward's Auto World Top 10 engine list in the mid to late 90's. Mazda does have a good heritage.
    I know Honda has a good heritage too with the NSX, V-TEC engine, Acura Integra Type R and S2000.

    As far as Mazda using a Ford Engine as long as there is no reliability problems I could care less. I hate Honda fans bashing Mazda to the ground all the time.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "you don't see them getting a mediocre v6 from the taurus either. i know its been modified, but it's still essentially the same engine."

    You obviously don't know much about the Duratech series of engines.

    And you must be joking if you think the TSX is in it's own league, above the Mazda6. The truth is that the TSX and the Mazda6 are both lower-cost 3-series alternatives with a lot of compromises due to FWD design.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    carguy58: now hate is a strong word. many reviews have remarked on the tsx's strong value. but to each his own. you know a manufacturer can't simply sell a car at MSRP just because it wants to. the consumer determines that.

    mazda6s: the duratech engine sucks compared to the v6 engines from honda, nissan and toyota. what else do i need to know? and i wasn't joking. the marketplace seems to back up my opinion.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    I shouldn't have said hate maybe. I sould have bias or some other word. I know some Domestic Big 3 fans have a dislike for Japanese Cars(you know one that carried over from the 80's.) As for the MSRP I don't get why anybody would ever pay MSRP for a car. People were paying MSRP for PT Cruisers, T-Birds and the new Beetle when they first came out now those cars could probably be had at invoice.

    About Nissan's engine I hear alot about Torque steer with the newer Altima so its not a perfect car. Ill agree Honda makes a great engine. About Toyota I'm not too high on Toyota's.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Your post on the Duratec is false. While not as advanced as the Honda V6 it is not very far behind. It certainly does not "suck." If you would have bothered to actually look up facts as opposed to spreading misinformation you would have found an engine as reliable as any Honda.

    As I'm sure you already know due to your level of research, the Duratec shares no common design traits with the Vulcan 3.0 V6 in the Windstar and Taurus. It is optional in the Taurus.

    The Duratec was designed for Ford by Porsche and is used globally in thousands of vehicles.

    Mark. : )
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "suck" was out of bounds. i drove a taurus with the vulcan engine, and the word "suck" may apply to that engine though.
  • metenuzerometenuzero Member Posts: 32
    I'm just curious if any one else's seat belts lock as often as mine do. When I may a turn without having to stop first they lock. When I angle the car so that I am able to back into my garage they lock so I am unable to turn around and look behind me without taking the seat belt off completely. I think it is just the driver's seat belt that does this because no passengers have ever complained about theirs. Mostly I notice they are locked after I had to brake, and then need to move my body in order to check if I can safely turn or U-Turn. Thanks.
  • igotamiataigotamiata Member Posts: 14
    I'm not sure if this link will work, but here are some pics of my 6S I've taken since January when I bought it. The car even looks gorgeous soaking wet from a thunderstorm!

    Chris
  • igotamiataigotamiata Member Posts: 14
    http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/?is_owner=1
  • ian2ian2 Member Posts: 168
    Perhaps you copied and pasted the wrong URL.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I passed a Steel Gray Mazda6 on 95 this evening on the way home from a friend's house, and I really like that color the best out of all of them. Not too dark and hard to keep clean, yet not too light.

    The link above takes you to the ImageStation homepage, so it doesn't work.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I read a review of it for the first time in Consumer Guide today at Books-a-Million, they seemed pretty impressed with the car. I am surprised at Honda, only having a sales goal of 15,000 units. Is this goal based on the past sales of the Integra sedan? Also, how many will be produced, only the 15,000?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    less than a full 3 months sales. I'll be willing to bet if they CAN make more they WILL make more. I don't know of that is capacity limited like the Odyssey was or if it was some arbitrary number to test the waters.

    At least it doesn't look like they will have to give them away like they did with the Civic Si. Talk about a bomb.
  • caligirl94caligirl94 Member Posts: 24
    So where exactly were you on the 95?

    I just happened to be driving my steel gray beauty on the 95 earlier this evening. :) (I've got the sport package and was north bound on a weekend trip from North Carolina to Alexandria, VA.)

    Just an update for everyone as well, I've now got about 1400 miles on her. Just came back from a 300+ mile road trip each way and it was wonderful (if you forget about weekend traffic). In fact, the car is so quiet and comfortable to drive that I actually had to try to keep myself awake the first hour or so because I just wanted to snuggle in and sleep. Once I got some soda and turned on some upbeat music, I perked up and cruised the rest of the way. I actually had a hard time keeping the speed down, as it seems this car picks up speed effortlessly. When I bought the car, I got the 4 cylinder because I figured I'd get in too much trouble with the 6 cylinder, and I was right. As it was, I had a hard time keeping it below 80... just seemed to want to go faster for some reason.

    So far I haven't had any problems at all, other than being volunteered by friends to drive us places. :) I don't really complain about that one though.

    zoom zoom
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