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Notice where you see the higher-tier brand commercials and where you see the lower-tier brand commercials. Those companies know their niche. Mazda isn't sure where to advertise the 6 or what kind of commercials to make to try to find their niche.
None of this makes the 6 a bad car. It's a great car. We would probably have one 6 months ago were it not for the lack of incentives at the time and the way Mazda screwed up the options. Would've had one a couple of weeks ago were it not for the latter again. They've lost the same sale twice.
It's hard to impress upon people who have such loyalty for their cars that just because they like their car better it's not automatically the best car. Same goes for CamCord owners. However, as has been said in here before the CamCords have been selling 400,000 a year for more than 10 years. Then you have 500,000 sales a year between the CivRolla. These cars have accomplished this by providing an above-average ownership experience. You can't beat that kind of word-of-mouth. When you have even 700,000 happy CamCord owners each year and 400,000 happy CivRolla owners that is 1.1 million people telling every one how happy they are with their cars. No advertising campaign can generate that kind of result. That's why they have stayed on top and will continue to do so. Mazda has built a solid CamCord fighter that is just as good as both the Camry and Accord but they don't have the built-in fan base.
Sometimes cars have their best sales years 3-4 years into the cycle.
It certainly is an attractive car, but why o why would Ford/Mazda bundle the options the way they have?
Greed Maybe? Or trying to get the average transaction price up a little so as to report higher sales volume? You tell me.
All I know is that the Mazda Millenia was one hell of a car that never got it's due.
The 6 seems to be a great car that needs a little marketing and ordering help.
I hope Mazda quits with this option shenigans and goes to a more ala carte ordering like Cadillac has done on the '04 CTS.
I think we can all agree on the fact that the Mazda6 is fine automobile.
As for the power of word of mouth, you're right. It's undeniable. However, it's also undeniable is that there are any number of examples of auto manufacturers who have been able to radically improve the public perception and the desirability of their product.
Nissan is an excellent current example, as is Volkswagon. Chrysler did it, so did Honda (remember the little rustbuckets of the 1970's).
I agree that Honda and Toyota have done perhaps the best job in the industry of sustaining their reputation over time while others have waxed and waned - at least in terms of the high-volume producers.
But Honda and Toyota shouldn't be too smug. The auto industry is one of th emost competitive on earth and the business world is littered with successful companies who have lost market share to more adaptive and hungry competitors (look at Ford and GM).
"Why would Mazda come out with a brand new car and immediately put incentives on it."
To reach that goal. I mean if the car was going to "catch on" it would/should be at around 10,000 units per month by now. I'm willing to bet the 80,000 number was for this MODEL YEAR and not the CALENDAR YEAR. The model year stops in September.
And with different engines and equipment what makes the 6 a success in other countries can't be related here. Additionally what are the actual numbers sold where the 6 is so popular. Case in point being that the Civic is number one in Canada but I don't think sales even reach 100,000.
As far as niche vehicles go.... Well we all know my favorite "niche" vehicle. I won't bring it up but they seem to be humming right along. Right from the beginning too. They have NO factory options at all save air bags. If the product is what people are looking for, they will buy it. Even if the people are different than the niche the manufacturer was going for. This seems to be what's happening with my "niche" vehicle.
Everyday, there are 2 models of Mazda6, the S (6cyl.) and the I (4 cyl) they both look exactly the same. The Sport pkg. includes 17 in. alloys, front and rear sport bumpers, side sills, rear spoiler, fog lights, exhaust tips and the black interior and is available in both the S and I model.
a) stop money grabbing with all the dumb packaging on options and do this instead
-moonroof, ABS, leather, bose sound all alacarte options available on base or sport package models.
b) more v6's available
c) more manuals available
d) advertise the car properly. figure out what you want your message to be and attractively present it. Nissan's newest ads for Maxima and Altima are awesome. Can you match it? The car in the desert thing was a good start but excluded the mass market buyers appeal and only appealed to gearheads. Market some to women also.
e) add some horsepower. add 20 to each car as the market perceives there is a deficiency.
f) go to lengths to promote the notion that while the car appears small, the interior space is efficiently packaged and spacious feeling, and is just as big as the camcord and fat american cars.
g) Get the hatch and wagon over now.
h) put an mp3 input jack on the stereo, add xm/sirius, and add dvd nav and dvd movie for the electrophiles.
j) ditch a lot of the muted colors and greys and bring in some bright colors. The bright red and yellow from the P5 would be a start. The mazda6 yellow sucks. Maybe even some limited edition greens and oranges.
k) allow tan leather with the sport package.
l) maybe a turbo 4 option
m) how bout some incentives? the car is too spendy when others are giving away thousands.
n) promote the awesome warranty!
p) offer cheap leases. Go head to head with Accord and Camry on the 199 lease deals.
6i 4 cylinder DX and ES model. DX would have all power equipment with the only option being automatic or manual. ES would add sport package, BOSE 6-disc, ABS, side airbags, and fog lights. Only option is leather, sunroof, and transmission.
6s 6 cylinder DX and ES model. DX would have the same equipment as the DX 4 cylinder but add ABS, traction, side airbags as standard equipement. 6s ES would have everything. Leather, roof, BOSE, sport package, ABS, and fog lights. Your only option on the 6s ES would be transmission.
Make side curtain airbags standard on both ES models and NA on DX models.
This would cut their production costs drastically. A good commercial would be to have a husband and wife who both own 6's, One is a base model 4 cylinder and one is a ES model. You show the husband and wife walking towards the garage with the idea that the husband will take the ES and the wife will take the base model but then show the wife taking off at full steam to get in the ES. You have to market this car to women because women make 60% of car buying decisions especially when it comes to sedans and vans. Show women making mad dashes in the car to pick the kids up. As much as Mazda doesn't want this to be "just another family sedan" for them to keep this model alive they need families to want the 6.
"People are calling it a disappointment" Same people are also forgetting that there is a recession going on.
To the ones who brag about how much "bigger" the Accord is. So what? For a long time, import fans said that "Smaller is better" and "Detroit cars are too big". Suddenly, "bigger is better" because Honda is doing it. Soon, the Accord will be a full-sized car.
Mark. : )
p.s. There have been 123 TSB's for the 03 Accord to date.
The "recession" and "niche" arguments don't hold water when there are some cars that are posting great years. Even better than the last. I mean there is a recession but cars ARE being sold.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
Nhtsa only found 17 worthy of including. Why the Accord's TSB's were mentioned is curious. Since TSB's can be anything as simple as how to remove an engine computer. Why is there no Mazda6 listing at all?
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/results.cfm
Oh yeah remember that fleet sales discussion earlier? Here's a chart. So it's true all makes sell to fleets. But some just do it more than others.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5525
I have booked a 2.0l Mazda 6 at S$100,998 (about US$ 57,700) and delivery date will be in Aug. Mazda Spore is selling 2.0l and 2.3l here, I love the blue 2.3l with full bodykit. But it is over my budget, it priced at S$114,998 (about US$65,700).
Mazda 6 is not so popular in Spore, but I like it for it's ride, style, handling,...
Hope to learn more about Mazda 6 from you guys.
/*sound of falling down from chair */
adam72- Are they selling hatches or sedans in Singapore?
anonymousposts seems to further limit already limited choices. I realize simplified packaging may a cut a few bucks off of the price, but why not stand out from camcord and offer the customer what he/she wants. You can get an automatic Camry right now for under $17,000 (over 20k list), so cutting a little off of the price still won't undercut that.
Gee,
80k was for the calendar year. Sales reporting always goes by calendar year unless otherwise specified.
I think even if Mazda could squeeze 15 hp out of each engine and offer some incentives, alone that would get sales going.
I am waiting for my Mazda 6 wagon or hatch in yellow with 6 cylinder and 5 speed manual. The stroller will have a nice home in the back of the wagon if I can swing it. No baby of mine is gonna suffer through growing up in a stupid SUV.
They are selling both hatches and sedans in Singapore.
Mark. : )
Cookie01, it wasn't me who test drove and loved the CTS, it was another poster here. I still have the Impala with 123,000 miles on it now, and hope to get a wagon or hatch when they come out (Mazda6...can you imagine an Impala wagon or hatch? I can't even imagine what the rear of an Impala hatch would look like!)
And Regfootball's option scheme of things like ABS, leather and sunroof being ala cart options makes great good sense. If anonypost's packages that included ALL these things together prevailed, I would not be interested in a Mazda6 at all. The problem NOW is to get safety equipment on the 4 cyl with a 5 speed, you have to load up the car to the point many can't afford it or have other options from other makes. With the six, some of the combos make just as little sense. It doesn't remedy this to make it even worse.
I, for instance, DO want every safety option but I will NOT take either leather or a sunroof. GM lost several luxury car sales due to the leather--no cloth available. How many? I don't know. But I know they lost several because otherwise I would have bought several. I also didn't buy several Mazda 626's because back then to get ABS you had to take a sunroof AND leather. Instead, I bought a 1992 Nissan Maxima SE, a Chrysler Concorde in 1994, etc.
The crazy option combinations. The relative unavailability of cars optioned the way buyers want them (and the way the cars in the ads were configured). Late arrival of the hatch and wagon. Those are factors I think ARE holding back sales.
Incentives? Some people get on one forum and bash GM for constantly offering incentives (you know who you are). Then they get on here, when Mazda has done exactly what they want GM to do, price the car at the price they intend to sell it for, and preach Mazda needs incentives? What is this, no incentives except for on cars *I* am interested in? What's next, bashing Mazda for NOT selling to fleets?
And yes, Audia8, I know you are going to say posters here are atypical and that options haven't kept people from buying or caused them not to buy at your dealership. You probably don't even see many of the frustrated buyers these days. They do their research, visit the dealers when they are closed, go on the web, and find out they can't get what they want. Then they go buy what they can get from someone else. And Mazda never knows, except the sales figures could have been one higher, and one higher and one higher. How many one's? The simple answer is no one knows.
As far as the A la cart options. The saying goes "You can't please em all". Obviously what they are doing now is not working very well either. At least if they bundled all the option packages and left the only "options" to be color and tranny choice more people would be more likely to find the car they went to the dealership looking for. The number of variations will be drastically reduced. The car ain't no Bentley. The shouldn't try to build the car like a Whopper.
Same deal with Mazda: People wanted 4's with ABS without every other option. 6's with side air bags and NO sunroof, no leather. No dice. At least not at first and difficult to find to this day.
Availability of equipped cars (esp the sport package) is one issue. The bizarre combinations required to get SAFETY equipment on the 4 and to get 17 inh wheels on the 6 is a whole nother issue.
To put it frankly, you are right. This ain't no Bentley. And forcing people to pay for lots of things to get the one thing they want is just pushing them into other brands. Just my opinion.
What's that you say? Honda, you say? Toyota says they build them that way but don't you say? Mazda does not have the brand image or the pricing power those two brands have. Mazda can't get away with making people pay much more money in order to get the options they want. And we haven't even mentioned the deal killers--for some the car MUST have them, for others the car MUST not--leather and sunroofs (and ABS on some models).
The supposed "small" back seat concerns me a little bit. There has been a lot of discussion on this board about the "herd" mentality and how Americans are too fat, blah, blah, blah.
But I have to tell you that the car seat thing may be a bigger issue. Modern car seats are pretty bulky, and having a 3 year old kick you in the back for an hour will mitigate the sporty handling of the car pretty quickly.
Mazda will fade into the pages of automotive history just like Daewoo!
My M6 has the 17 inch wheels, and I might be wrong but it feels "taller" from the floor to the door than my HUGE Impala was. What I mean is... I have to bend down less with the M6 to unbuckle the grandson then I did in my Impala. Of course, with an SUV/Cross or some sort of Van, you don't have to bend over at all.
As I've said before. My sister has the new 2003 Accord and I see NO difference in front or rear seat room. I think if you check the specs the Accord has about 5 inchs more total shoulder room or something. And possibly more head room in the back seat, but I'm guessing it's all of an inch or two.
Head Room (Fr/Rr) ...40.4/38.5...... 38.7/37.1
Leg Room (Fr/Rr) ...42.6/36.8...... 42.3/36.5
Shoulder(Fr/Rr) ...56.9/56.1...... 56.1/55
Hip Room (Fr/Rr) ...54.6/53.5..... 54.7/54.1
basically, unless your head is very near the headliner in the 6, you won't notice the interior differences.
extra headroom gives you a false sense of space, hence the reason why cars are getting taller and taller in stance.
minicars in Europe and Japan are all tall in design, for the same reason.
Honda changed that with having 3 models, two fully equiped, the LX and EX. Initially, that's what changed American car buying; not having to make expensive decissions. But there was no *sports model* in Hondas marketing plan. It was a family car, not a street racer.
Mazda tried to market to both sides with the MZ6 and has run into problems. The 2004 will be successful after a shakeout in the options packages and better TV commercials aimed at their true market: the techheads at high-tech companies, traditional BMW and Audi buyers. Show buyers ZOOMING home on twisty roads and then taking the family to the mall.
They should emphasize that owning a 6 is a step ABOVE regular family haulers without the corresponding higher price. Rather than joining a *niche* or *cult* segment, which turns many people off, they are joining an elite group of discerning buyers.
It's all in the way it is presented, how it is said, that makes the difference between sales success and sales failure.
fowler3
As for the car seat issue, we have a giant Britax in our back seat, rear-facing. It fits with room to spare. Much better than in our Saab 9-3, where it's a tight fit.
(And Gee, when it comes to Honda Element sales, those don't really correlate with the industry because it's a unique vehicle. While I don't know any unemployed 20-somethings looking to buy new cars (what a bizarre target demographic!), I do know lots of people in their 30s and 40s who went gaga over the utility of the thing with its folding seats and metal floors. If the 6 had no competition or introduced some amazing unique feature, then perhaps it would somehow relate to the Element. But it doesn't.)
An International Harvester tractor would seem "sporty" compared to the Camry.
The undisciplined toddlers that I see that control their parents very intelligently (mostly because parents are too lazy to take the time to discipline) makes me understand the societal problems we have today.
Sorry, not trying to start an off-topic internet brawl, nor am I trying to offend anyone. It just really irks me that people choose to have kids and never really want to take responsibility for them. (Much more than just feeding, clothing, etc.)
And to me the Mazda 6 interior catches my attention much more than the other two.
I don't know what the deal was with Autoweek...maybe their driver was just off or something. All the other car mags have pegged the slalom at much higher speeds in the Sport package equipped Mazda 6 than Accord, Camry, or Altima. Sometimes as much as 4 miles per hour.
I will always read Consumer Reports for their reliability surveys, since they have borne out complete truth in my own purchases, and purchases of many people I know. After last months issue though, it was the last straw in my respect for any of their Automobile testing. They were on the edge of credibility with me before, but when they rated the old, soft, front-drive Infiniti I35 higher than the rear-drive, sporty Infiniti G35, then I knew that their testing methodology was spheres away from my own. Their only excuse was that the rear end was touchy in the G35. DUH! It's based on a somewhat real sports car called the 350Z. Most good handling cars are twitchy at the limit.
So other than reliability, I will never base my opinion on a car from their ratings.
When I leased the Impala I not only loved the car, but I knew there was a good chance it would go back after the lease and need to be in TOP condition.
My child (6 at the time) had to learn VERY quickly that we don't eat or drink in the car (besides with sippy cups) we don't get in with muddy feet and we NEVER kick the door open, the seats or anything else. I was manic about the upkeep on that car, and she knew I meant it because I didn't even let DAD eat or drink in the car!!!
Now with the Mz6 (and her being almost 9) she treats it like the expensive toy Mom wants it to be.
Now, my 3 year old grandson... that's another story. Nobody has control over that kid! But he's not mine, so I get very little say... sigh..
I don't know about the difference between the 6 and the Accord, but I sat in the back seats of a 6 and an Altima, and you definitely get a couple more inches of legroom in the Altima, so maybe you'd be less likely to be kicked. On the other hand, it's handy to be able to reach your kid in the back seat when they're closer; I noticed this renting a Focus one time. We have no problems with car seats in our Outback, which I'm pretty sure has a smaller back seat than the 6. The other thing I found between the 6 and the Altima is there's actually more hip room in the 6, measured armrest-to-armrest, so if you had two carseats back there, you'd have more room for an adult to squeeze in to the third spot.
Mazda should have pushed the V6 man trans combo in its ads. That's one way it really differentiates itself from the Camcords (but then it sets itself up for head to head with Altima..)
I saw two more yesterday (and I drive under 10 minutes to work)- a steel grey w/o GFX and a white one with GFX...parked down the street from my house. So much for being the only one in the neighborhood with one. Sigh..