Mazda6 Sedan

mdaffron

However, I still take exception to Ford's computers (my Mazda pickup's Ford PCM was replaced THREE TIMES, luckily under warranty -- $450 a pop) and other engine-management equipment. And if you think Mazda has done anything to address quality issues with the Ford stuff it uses, think again -- or better yet, go check out the "Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute" discussion.

And ashu -- Yes, I've said the disk/drum setup on the '99-'00 Protege is just as good as the disk/disk setup on the '01 and '02 -- but if I were to have a choice, I'd pick all disks -- not for stopping power, because as we've established there's no real difference in fwd cars -- but for ease of maintenance. It's MUCH easier to replace pads than shoes -- I know, been there!!!

Meade

vocus

Drum brakes usually only require cleaning though. The only high-mileage car I ever drove was a 1994 Bonneville, with 150K miles. The back brake drums were cleaned several times, but never had problems that required replacement.

I was told that disc brakes in the back have to have their pads replaced and the rotors machined just like the fronts do, so they are more expensive in the maintenance department.

newcar31

"Drum brakes usually only require cleaning though."

Huh? Brake shoes wear out just like pads. The reason why you don't have to do it that often is because the drums are on the back of the car. Drum brakes are a pain.

Meade-IIRC, our Proteges have a version of Ford's EEC V computer.

ickes_mobile

I wouldn't draw conclusions about Mazda's overall reliability from the Tribute. Its modified from the Ford in appearance only and built by Ford in a Ford plant. At least with the MPV and the Mazda6, Mazda engineers have greater independence for the overall product.

the_big_h

that you guys are talking about actually OPENING up the brake drum and replace the shoes INSIDE the drum....

vocus

You are right, I didn't realize that. I just know the only back brake maintenace the Bonneville had was to clean the drums in back. It's the highest mileage car I have had with back drum brakes, so that is the only one I can go by.

adu1

Meade, in line with what ickes_mobile wrote, you'd do better to think of the Tribute as a Ford with a few Mazda parts. That's quite different from the 6, which will be a Mazda with a few Ford parts. And on assembly-related quality control issues, the Flat Rock plant seems to have a pretty good history (at least based on the relatively low problem rates for 626s, as indicated in Consumer Reports). Plus, I think that the Mazda folks will be trying REALLY hard to get this one right...

edmund2460

For the Sinatraphiles (maybe this could be a chat room project for this topic to embellish this...)

Ford and Mazda, Ford and Mazda
Go together like a crepe and pasta
This I tell you brother
You can't have one without the other

Try try try to separate them, it's an illusion
Try Try Try and you will only come
to this conclusion

Ford and Mazda, Ford and Mazda
You could do without one but you're gonna have ta
Grin and bear it brother
You can't have your 6
You can't have your 6
Without the other

petra02

On another message board, someone brought up the idea of a Mazda 6 Coupe, sort of like the MX-6, I guess. Anyone here heard anything like that?

ickes_mobile

Just trying to have a little fun folks... That's all.

vooch

I was reading the specs 6 and it seems as though it may be a possibility that they price the MAZDA6s like the Millenia since it is replacing both the 626 and the Millenia. The 6i may be priced like the current 626 but the 6s seems like it may be somewhere near a Millenia, which is high 20's to 30k I believe. Which would also suck I don't know how the 6's features compare to the current 626 so hopefully I'm wrong.

verozahl

The "6" might be equipped on the higher-end with lux-like equipment levels, but the Millenia is a large sedan that won't be replaced. Mazda has decided to simply leave that market category. I believe Mitsu will follow.

New 6 and new RX-8, oh Mazda, why do you make us wait?? Nissan's on the ball these days... Mazda playing catchup...

johnclineii

Yep....Mazda IS playing catsup!

The question that remains is, is it Heinz or the off-brand?

And, will there be something for those of us who are Sirius? )a Sirius question in a daffy context!(

Lastly, will one be able to equip a high level 6 nicely WITHOUT a sunroof and/or dead cow seats?

john cline ii, full of Sirius questions in somewhat of a less than serious way!

mdaffron

Yep, both will be options on both cars.

Here's a link to answer all your questions:

http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/downloads/mz6_specs.pdf

Meade

townhall9

Edmunds quote (about the Protege): "On the sporty ES version you get four-wheel disc brakes that produce class-leading stopping distances.

mdaffron

A nice article on the U.S. Mazda6, including such info as its base price, timing of introduction, and confirmation of all styles (sedan, hatch & wagon) coming to the states. Also a tidbit about the RX-8 arriving here early next year.

I scanned the article. You need Acrobat Reader to open it. You can find it here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mazdaprotege/files/mazda6.pdf

Meade

P.S. I actually called my newspaper (yes, I did) and obtained permission to scan the article.

maltb

but 4 discs aren't any better that disc/drum...said in the heaviest sarcasm.

luv ya meade

mdaffron

Yeah, they probably put disks/drums on my '00 ES because FORD ordered them to cut corners.

Now why don't you get back to work on a REAL issue I asked you about a couple of weeks ago -- and find out what's different about the updated ignition coil in the '99 and '00 Proteges.

You have your homework assignment. Now get to it before I have to send you to the principal.

Meade

chikoo

C/D-estimated performance (V-6, 5-sp auto):
Zero to 60 mph 8.0 sec
Standing 1/4-mile 16.2 sec @ 89 mph
Top speed (drag limited) 130 mph.

drag limited?
meaning engine cannot muster up any more ooomph to psuh the car through the air?

and hey Maltb. I too sent out something for you.
did you get it?

machiavelli

yes, that is drag-limited.

A car can also be electronically limited to a certain speed, so that it doesn't exceed the speed rating of it's tires.

Also, a car can be gearing limited, if it has a really 'short' (numerically high) final drive ratio.

wgr

You need to be a member of mazdaprotege to get access.

mdaffron

I'm group owner. Anyone and everyone is welcome to join.

Meade

arugala

One of the things I'd like to see in my next car is adjustable rear seat head restraints. Is it true that the U.S. version won't have them, even though the European and Japanese versions do? That would be disappointing, and it doesn't make any sense to not put them on the ones sold here.

bpi

Sedan - no
Wagon and hatchback - yes

vocus

The article that Meade posted on the Yahoo group said the antiskid system would be an option on NA 6s, but the article here at Edmunds.com said that option would not be available on our shores. Since the posted article from Yahoo is newer, I would think it's right. Any thoughts?

ickes_mobile

The official specs don't mention it. Only ABS with electronic force distribution and traction control...

jfgoing

I actually sent a paper letter a few weeks ago to the Mazda North America folks asking about electronic yaw control. I got back a polite but clueless letter from them saying essentially that they didn't know anything about the car.

The fact that the specs don't mention it suggests strongly that they aren't going to include it. Which is too bad, because I'm not buying a car that doesn't have it.

If you'd ever seen a car spin into an accident, you'd want this feature, too. Trust me on that...

(And yes, accident statistics show that spin related loss of control is a major factor in accidents. If you only drive on dry and ice free pavement, of course, skids are a lot less threating. Up here in the NW, we aren't so lucky :-)

(And I'm definitely not buying a car from a company that thinks North Americans are dumber than Japanese and European people. Which is exactly what this decision says to me. "Mazda 6. A simple choice for a limited people" ;-)

I'm betting the Acura TSX will have it, or maybe I'll have to get a VW Passat or A4. (That's it, force me to get that A4 - oohh the pain! :-)

vwmonsoon

Apparently, Mazda doesn't care if we get whiplash during a crash. (Touch wood) They think they'll save a few $$ getting rid of the adjustable rear head restraints. 03 Accord, Camry and Passat have them, but not the 6.

Are you listening, Mazda? Give us the Head Restraints!

mdaffron

The sedan has rear head restraints; they're just not adjustable. Like the ones in the current Protege. I would think having a clear view out the back window would be more practical more often than the off chance someone rear-ends you hard enough to cause whiplash. And then the built-in, non-adjustable head restraints would probably prevent whiplash. Hell, most folks don't even adjust their front head restraints to the proper position to save their necks (pun intended).

Meade

vocus

You are right about people not adjusting their front head restraints to proper position. There was a discussion in the Toyota Echo forum about that not a couple of days ago.

I disagree about the fact that the rear headests would impede rear vision. I have driven a Passat and have a Jetta with adjustable headrests in the back. They don't even get in the way when backing up for me, even the middle rear one. I would rather have my passengers safe anyway than worry about stretching another inch or so to be able to see correctly out the back window.

vocus

I don't think it's fair for Mazda to limit their safety items to the US market, such as adjustable rear headrests and the antiskid system. If an all-new car comes out for 2003 without this option, that would instantly make me cross it off my list as well. Technology is too advanced today for cars not to have the latest in accident avoidance and safety equipment, especially an all new model.

sross

I'm all for the antiskid system too, but Mazda's not the only company not to offer it to the US market. The 2003 Toyota Corolla, for instance, offers antiskid in Europe and not the US.
I hope it won't be long before US customers realize its benefits. Maybe we'll have to see more interest in the antiskid options offered in the Ford Focus and the 2003 Golf/Jetta.

ickes_mobile

So, I saw the plastainium dash treatment in my in-laws Vibe this weekend. If Mazda's version of plastainium is as good as Toyota's, it might be quite nice looking...

vooch

I personally think seatbelts are your best bet in an accident. All the hi-tech safety avoidance stuff and safety features are good but they have one flaw - they rely on the driver's actions to actually be of any use. IMO, passive technology is probably of more use. Not that I wouldn't take or use safety stuff!

On a side note, it makes me nervous to know that there is a piece of equipment in my car that could maim or kill a child but is OK when it hits me hehe. But its still passive.

To me, seatbelts and ABS are the most important pieces of safety equipment, but then I don't drive in snow or icy roads... hmm, nor do I have children...

vcjumper

Lets just hope it is better than the Altima's

dudleyr

The color is too distracting. I MUCH prefer plain black. Also - is it a finish or does the color go through? Will it scratch off?

meesr

...... he used to work there at Mazda R&D in Irvine. Still has connections there. Promises me a ride in the 6 very soon.

I'm the guy who works across the street from Mazda R&D in Irvine, and saw a disguised Mazda 6 pop outta there two weeks before the 6 was officially announced.

I couldn't wait and got a VW Passat. Nice car, helluva deal for $22K (1.8T and manual), but handling could be tighter. Would've seriously entertained the Mazda 6 but couldn't wait.

mdaffron

... being available in the U.S. model? Didn't you guys do a little homework, such as checking out this link that was published right here five days ago?

http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/downloads/mz6_specs.pdf

It's called TCS (Traction Control System) and it'll be a package option on the Mazda6i and standard on the Mazda6s.

Get the facts before you spread erroneous rumors, please!

Meade

mdaffron

Have you noted that the rear seats will fold flat to the floor because of a new piece of Mazda engineering? You simply pull on a lever IN THE TRUNK and either side of the 60/40 split (or both) fold forward, while simultaneously, without having to do anything else than pull that one lever, the rear seat bottom cushions sink into the floor. Voila -- perfectly flat cargo area up the back of the front seats, all made possible with one simple flick of a lever! Cool, huh?

Meade

sross

Meade: TCS isn't skid control--it's just traction control. It doesn't include a yaw sensor, etc to detect and correct for skids in a turn. It just prevents wheel spin when you're starting off in slippery conditions. Mazda's skid control system is known as DSC--dynamic stability control system--and is different from TCS, as you'll see in this link:

http://www.mazda.co.nz/news/2002-02-08_1.html

So we're not spreading erroneous rumors.

vocus

There weren't any rumors spread. You just proved that. Edmunds.com's article said the US 6 would not have an anti-skid system, but the article you posted on the Yahoo group said the car would have that option. I brought up the point of the misinformation, and was seeking the truth.

TCS and anti-skid systems are not the same thing. My car has ASR (the same as TCS, only it works at all speeds), and it's a 4-year old design. If Mazda is going to give us a cheap excuse for traction control that only works up to 25mph, what's the point on an all-new design? The reason I bring that up is because Camry, Jetta/Golf (for 2003), and others will have anti-skid systems standard/optional. Why not the 6 as well, since it's upmarket from these?

mdaffron

... doesn't mean Ford can't put them together and give them one name. Here's an excerpt from Ford Motor Company's own press release about the U.S. Mazda6:

"To help the driver avoid hazardous situations, the Mazda6 features extensive active-safety measures such as superior braking performance, four-wheel ABS with EBD and electronically-controlled brake assist. In addition, a dynamic stability control (DSC) system maintains vehicle control in spins or skids by reducing engine torque and applying the brakes selectively to individual wheels as necessary."

By how the above is worded, it appears that Ford may be trying to simplify the American options and has combined the two systems into one option (on the i; standard on the s) under one term. (In other words, just because they have a term for it in other markets, Ford may have decided to lump both functions under the TCS term and not split them out as separate options/features.)

Don't give up hope just yet.

Meade

mdaffron

"The new four also features twin gear-driven balancing shafts that minimize unwanted noise, vibration and harshness. Initial impressions, at least, find engine vibration well contained even at elevated revs. Like the V6, the four's overhead camshafts are driven by a chain, instead of a belt, for greater durability and lower maintenance. Additionally, both engines meet the stringent ULEV emissions standards."

Timing CHAINS on both engines! Thanks Mazda!

Meade

mazdafun

Meade, Maltb. You're both cool fellas and don't deserve this flaming. Besides, there're plenty other folks happy enough to flame the two of you (judging by the rather heated discussion on the Mazda6 v. new Accord board).

I'm thinking some attempts at humor have gone awry here. Time for some beer.

ickes_mobile

vocus

That was WAY too much information to share. So tell me, what do the past couple of posts have to do with the Mazda 6?

Be good, or Pat will be a deletin'.

maltb

Ok, all done.

mdaffron

WHAT posts?

;-)

Meade

jfgoing

So maybe there's hope yet. Weird that they would lump them all together in the specs chart, though. No other company that I know of does that.

And there was an article in the WSJ yesterday about how the manufacturers of skid control systems are starting a campaign to promote the technology.

(And, of course, that brings up the question of how well this stuff works. I read a lot of european (mostly german) stuff on these systems last year - and they were pretty uniformily impressed by the stuff. And a friend has it on his Z3 and likes it. But I won't really believe it till I get it on a skid pad and get to try it out....)

ickes_mobile

that they would lump them together under "traction control system" which suggests someting more basic than a "stablility control system", which isn't common in this class.