Been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first post. I don't recall seeing anyone mention before the group test, including the Mazda 6, in the August issue of the British magazine Top Gear. They tested the 6 (w/ 1.8 liter engine) vs. five other mid-range cars, including the very highly regarded (i.e., I've never seen a bad review, particularly re the ride/handling, in the British or French press) second-generation Ford Mondeo. And for you Passat-philes, FYI, the Mondeo is generally viewed by the press as having a superior chassis (esp. better handling and body control) to the Passat (which was not included in the test group, perhaps due to the presence of the recently released Skoda Superb, the flagship of VW's Czech division, which is built on a stretched Passat platform).
ANYWAY, here's Top Gear's conclusion regarding the Mazda:
"So that leaves the Mazda as our clear winner. The only thing we'd change is that interior, or, to be more precise, the awful looking centre console. The rest of the car we like enormously. It's the best looking from the outside, has the best engine, the best gearbox, the best ride, and the best handling. True you'll pay a bit more company car tax [UK has car tax based on a vehicle's CO2 emissions]. Sorry, but if you want the very best car here, that's what you are going to have to do."
Now go to the top right, pick new cars, Mazda 6, and then click on roadtests. I would post the entire link but it won't let me here, says it is longer than 115 letters!
The quote I gave earlier is from the hardcopy edition of Top Gear that I bought today at Borders. It looks like they don't put such major articles on their web site, at least not immediately (no real surprise there; American monthly mags mostly seem to do the same).
And here are a few additional telling quotes from the article:
"[T]he seats, driving position, and instrument binnacle are all top notch."
"[The Mazda's 1.8 liter engine is] the only engine here with a little bit of spark and passion to it. Mazda's engineers have done an equally good job with the Six's [five-speed manual] gearbox which ... is pretty close to perfect."
"Wind noise isn't a problem in the Mazda, nor is high-speed ride which is excellent, but the cabin does let in too much road rumble."
Re ride and handling, "[T]he Mazda is the clear winner in this section. The Six isn't perfection. There's an initial lightness that the steering suffers from as you begin to turn in to a corner that we'd like to see dialled out. Yet once that passes, the steering is spot on. So too is the way the chassis holds its line and controls the body through the corner, and it doesn't matter how bumpy the road gets, the Six does a better job of dealing with it than even the Mondeo."
Damn impressive overall, especially given that European reviewers generally tend to be tougher critics of chassis dynamics than American reviewers (from what I've seen in my decades of reading U.S., British, and French publications).
I remember reding a Jedlicka review on the 2001 PRO that said something like "this has always been a quiet car but for 2001 they made it quieter". Then it turns out that CR comes out and says that they can only recommend it based on reliability and that is a noisy car. I have to agree that it is on the noisy side although it doesn't bother me that much. Which brings me to my point. WHY DOES THE EDMUNDS review on the 6 state that "Though the 6 is relatively refined, noise, vibration and harshness are evident, especially at extra-legal speeds and higher revs". Now every other review I've read, including Mazda's stated design goals in this respect put it down as a very quiet car. Why can't we have objective measurements of these things?
The quote I gave earlier is from the hardcopy edition of Top Gear that I bought today at Borders. It looks like they don't put such major articles on their web site, at least not immediately (no real surprise there; American monthly mags mostly seem to do the same).
And here are a few additional telling quotes from the article:
"[T]he seats, driving position, and instrument binnacle are all top notch."
"[The Mazda's 1.8 liter engine is] the only engine here with a little bit of spark and passion to it. Mazda's engineers have done an equally good job with the Six's [five-speed manual] gearbox which ... is pretty close to perfect."
"Wind noise isn't a problem in the Mazda, nor is high-speed ride which is excellent, but the cabin does let in too much road rumble."
Re ride and handling, "[T]he Mazda is the clear winner in this section. The Six isn't perfection. There's an initial lightness that the steering suffers from as you begin to turn in to a corner that we'd like to see dialled out. Yet once that passes, the steering is spot on. So too is the way the chassis holds its line and controls the body through the corner, and it doesn't matter how bumpy the road gets, the Six does a better job of dealing with it than even the Mondeo."
Damn impressive overall, especially given that European reviewers generally tend to be tougher critics of chassis dynamics than American reviewers (from what I've seen in my decades of reading U.S., British, and French publications).
I love this quote from the online article... "It feels taut and agile, the firm suspension soaking up all but the worst road imperfections with a sophistication that BMW drivers will recognise and Volkswagen drivers will not." here's the link if you can manage to paste it in your browsers:
That IS a great quote! It really seems to me that the 6 is shaping up to be that rarest of cars, one that one that largely fulfills its potential (and the goals & hype of its manufacturer). I just wish we didn't have to wait almost an extra year for the wagon & hatch. After the good reviews that are trickling in and the promising specifications, the latest pics I've seen of the wagon have me VERY interested...!
At least it'll take an objective reading of overall sound level. However, equipment doesn't reflect the subjective impression (some noises are good, others are bad).
They're the only reviewers that seem to measure sound levels at different speeds and throttle levels (full v. cruise, hwy v. idle etc.).
While we're not trying to find anything wrong with the 6 (heck, if its 80% the car I hope it is going to be, I'm a guaranteed buyer!), we are (very understandably and justifiably) concerned about the extent of Ford's input, and the level of their commitment to this new car.
Speculation is the order of the day, and keeps interest going (how many pre-release forums - except for exotics - generate this much discussion here?).
I was about to ask why no one publishes decibel readings. I didn't realize that C&D still did it. I thought they stopped the practice some time ago. I don't think we get consistent opinions from any of the reviewers. I remember that CR in earlier years noted that there waz some wind and road noise in the PRO and then all of a sudden it became a major issue this year. With respect to the 6 did not Mazda claim that having a car that was as quiet as the best European road cars was a design goal?
Of course, if you happen to have a dB meter, you can always bring one along on a test drive (when they arrive). Of course, where you put it and where you point it will change the reading.
And I can then judge for MYSELF what I think of the noise level and quality, so the dB meter is moot (for me anyway, still would be a curiosity for everyone here).
Does anyone here think that the 6 is going to depreciate as badly as the 626 does now? I could easily find a 2001 626 around here for less than $12k. Hertz rents them out, and they have loads of them at their Car Sales locations.
to limit fleet sales and allow demand to increase. The demand will depend greatly on peoples perception of the car as a resonable alternative to the Passat or Accord. As for supply, Ford promised not to dump Contour/Mystiques on the rental fleets, but when sales never took off...
Lets just say I'm driving mine until the wheels fall off. The rear view mirror fell off yesterday, so maybe its on its way. BTW, has anybody here driven around without the rear view mirror. Its seriously weird! Just this big panoramic view of the world. You almost feel over exposed...
While looking at some of the interior pictures of the 6 on Mazda's site, I noticed a small, remote-control like thing down next to the gear selector. Does anyone have any clue what this is? The little knob on it scared me for a second, because visions of i-Drive popped into my head.
I don't think people need to worry about Ford's input....Remember, if mama Ford didn't jump in to rescue Mazda from economic ruins we would not be having this discussion at all!!
The Maz6 is the most important car Mazda has ever launched...essentially the whole companies future rides on this car...they will get it "just right" !!
Mazda lost its way and tried to duke it out with the likes of Honda and Toyota for the mainstream consumer and got hurt bad.
Now that they're back on track, I hope Ford will let a good thing be and not force bad parts etc. on them. I do like that Mazda is in charge of developing FoMoCo's 4-cyl engines and likely will have a lot of impact on compact and mid-size chassis design.
I drove my friend's car for about a mile or two without the rearview mirror, because the car wash knocked it off when they cleaned the windshield. It was definitely weird driving that way, and alot harder for me. I didn't realize how much I use that mirror until then.
BTW, I would get that fixed ASAP if I were you. It's against the law to drive that way, and if you get pulled over, you have to get a repair order and all that crap. So save yourself the drama and get it fixed.
The French web site www.argusauto.com has posted an article comparing the Mazda 6 with the Alfa Romeo 156. (For those unfamiliar with current Europe-only cars, the 156 truly has spearheaded Alfa's long overdue resurgence in Europe. It is quite well regarded by many in the automotive press for the driving enjoyment it offers, and has revived Alfa's image to a significant extent.)
This road test makes some interesting points, a few of which I have not seen made elsewhere:
- 2.3-liter engine with manual transmission moves the car with "brio," and the transmission is very pleasant to use.
- too much engine noise, especially at highway speeds.
- the chassis controls body movements "perfectly," and the car [with 17-inch tires] is "incisive, precise, and efficient." However, the suspension is "a bit hard" [perhaps attributable, at least in part, to those tires].
- the Mazda's strength lies more on curvy roads than on the highway, where the 6 is too sensitive to crosswinds, thus requiring frequents small steering corrections. [I don't like the sound of THAT -- perhaps this can be corrected before the 6's release here...]
- the steering is too heavy at low speeds, and the brakes are strong but with the ABS kicking in easily.
- the rear seat space is "generous," but the rear seatback is "very hard" for a middle passenger
- very high quality materials in the interior (especially the dashboard and the leather on the seats).
- ideal driving position.
(If anyone's interested, the link is http://www.argusauto.com/pages/editorial/index.cfm?IDArt=65432&IDRub=5&poplet=1 And I also have to wonder whether the blue interior color shown in the photos accompanying the article will make it to North America. I think it may be a bit too, er, adventurous for our tastes -- unless it's just a problem with my monitor!)
In any case, based on the comments in the article, it certainly sounds like the 6 will be a good bit too sporty (and I mean actual sportiness, not simply the appearance or hype of it!) for most Camry or Accord shoppers. In other words, just the sort of alternative to ordinary mid-priced cars that many of us have been waiting for...
Did anyone check the new mazda6 website on www.mazdausa.com? The engine rating for the 2.3 is 160hp 155lb and 220hp 192lb(only) for 3.0. Both engine will be mated with 5 speed manual and optional 4 speed auto with manual mode for the 2.3 and 5 speed with manual mode on the 3.0.
The models will be Mazda6 i for the 4 cylinder and Mazda6 s for the V6
Yeah, I got the adhesive to put it back on. The instructions say the windshield needs to be at room temprature (how am I going to fit the car by the front door?). Its definately a priority.
Nice to see 160hp. in the 4cyl, which is 10 more than the UK version.
Very funny. You have to park the car in the shade for a little bit. The glass doesn't have to be room temp though, I did my friend's when it was like 100 outside, and put the AC vents to blow on the windshield a little to cool it down while putting the glue on. You wait for like an hour until the glue sets, then slip the mirror back on.
Someone earlier asked about the remote on the console. If you look at one of the pics in the article link above, you will see the person holding a remote and pointing it toward the navigation system. That's what it's for, I guess.
One little thing I just noticed about the 6 is that the emergency brake is not in the center, where it is on most other sporty-cars (such as the Alfa-Romeo it was being tested against).
I was just at the 6 website yesterday, and today I go back, and everything is different!
I'm glad to be able to see pictures of it in a different color. Silver really suits this car. Oh yeah, judging by thepicuters, I think that they have de-Altima-ized the taillights, but the video is a different story.
While there is universal recognition in the reviews of the superior handling of the 6, there are some opinions emerging that it may not be all that quiet and the ride may be regarded as rough by some, the same sort of thing CR is saying about the PRO. While that may not bother those of us who buy the car for it's pluses, this is not competing with the likes of Camry and Accord. I know the company wants to get back to it's roots. But is that a niche and not mainstream?
Mazda failed miserably trying to compete with Honda/Toyota in making bland, inoffensive mass market people movers in the 90s, so they are going back to doing what they do best, which is to make cars that have sporting characteristics, and fun to drive. And I think people are starting to catching up on the 'Zoom Zoom' idealogy!
It would be hard for anyone to beat Honda and Toyota in the People Mover business so Mazda has to take another road: sporty. The comments above about highway cruising and sensitivity in cross winds gives me goose bumps. Every car that I have loved had the same "problem". Bring it on!
Mazda is smart to continue with the "Zoom Zoom" attitude. They've got a nice little angle on the market there. I purchased an '00 626 LX-V6 because it's personality was quite a bit more sporting (although not extremely so) than most American and Japanese midsize models. At the time, Maxima was the closest thing in my mind, and although it's ability to go like hell in a straight line was real tempting (that Nissan 3.5 is a beautiful engine), it simply didn't handle quite as well as the 626 and I just couldn't swallow the price. The new Altima seems close to what I'd want, but the exterior design doesn't quite do it for me (price for a V-6 isn't too cheap either). Mazda got me into a reliable, sporty midsize at a very reasonable cost. The 6 seems to be right on track for that same combination, but with so many nice additions/changes. I hope to buy a 6 wagon for my wife next year.
If you want a car that you can steer with your pinky finger, and can't hear/feel the road or engine in, buy a car from one of the big 3 - they turn out droves of 'em. Of course Honda and Toyota manufacture that style too. Not for me. I like the road feel and the sound of my 2.5 when it's growling away up front, and a bit of extra work at the steering wheel on a windy highway trip is well worth the extra control I get on the back roads.
I don't like feeling isolated, as I do in the more luxury-oriented vehicles. OK, I do sometimes, like right after surgery (those little bumps in the road feel 1000X bigger when you have fresh stitches in you) or when I'm feeling nauseous.
Other than that, I like to "feel" the road and the "feel of the deckplates" as I drive. I consider that part of the driving experience. Now, some noises, such as those created by loose or resonant suspension components or raspy gear meshing (or is it shredding?) noises may not be welcome. It depends on the "quality" of those sounds.
You guys have raised an interesting point; namely, what is Mazda's direction? They have failed miserably in trying to go mainstream. They got into so much red ink they needed another company to bail them out (Ford). Given that they are now a part (although peripheral) of the blue oval family, where are they going in the market? Obviously the Ford brand is the mainstream brand. Mercury has no identity because it doesn't have any of its own products, only rewarmed Ford stuff. Lincoln is clearly the luxury name. But there is a glaring lack in Ford's arsenal: sport and sport luxury. Lincolns are luxurious in that smothered in pillows sort of way, but hardly sporty. So my theory is that Mazda will be slowly migrated upmarket into a premium sport and possible sport luxury brand. Perhaps not into Lexus/Infiniti/Acura territory, but into the area where they can jump on an underserved demographic: young (and young thinking) people with small or no families who have disposable income and want performance but aren't willing to spend BMW money on a car. The supporting point here is that Mazda junked their luxury brand after the Ford merger. What do you all think?
Comments
ANYWAY, here's Top Gear's conclusion regarding the Mazda:
"So that leaves the Mazda as our clear winner. The only thing we'd change is that interior, or, to be more precise, the awful looking centre console. The rest of the car we like enormously. It's the best looking from the outside, has the best engine, the best gearbox, the best ride, and the best handling. True you'll pay a bit more company car tax [UK has car tax based on a vehicle's CO2 emissions]. Sorry, but if you want the very best car here, that's what you are going to have to do."
http://www.topgear.beeb.com/
Now go to the top right, pick new cars, Mazda 6, and then click on roadtests. I would post the entire link but it won't let me here, says it is longer than 115 letters!
And here are a few additional telling quotes from the article:
"[T]he seats, driving position, and instrument binnacle are all top notch."
"[The Mazda's 1.8 liter engine is] the only engine here with a little bit of spark and passion to it. Mazda's engineers have done an equally good job with the Six's [five-speed manual] gearbox which ... is pretty close to perfect."
"Wind noise isn't a problem in the Mazda, nor is high-speed ride which is excellent, but the cabin does let in too much road rumble."
Re ride and handling, "[T]he Mazda is the clear winner in this section. The Six isn't perfection. There's an initial lightness that the steering suffers from as you begin to turn in to a corner that we'd like to see dialled out. Yet once that passes, the steering is spot on. So too is the way the chassis holds its line and controls the body through the corner, and it doesn't matter how bumpy the road gets, the Six does a better job of dealing with it than even the Mondeo."
Damn impressive overall, especially given that European reviewers generally tend to be tougher critics of chassis dynamics than American reviewers (from what I've seen in my decades of reading U.S., British, and French publications).
And here are a few additional telling quotes from the article:
"[T]he seats, driving position, and instrument binnacle are all top notch."
"[The Mazda's 1.8 liter engine is] the only engine here with a little bit of spark and passion to it. Mazda's engineers have done an equally good job with the Six's [five-speed manual] gearbox which ... is pretty close to perfect."
"Wind noise isn't a problem in the Mazda, nor is high-speed ride which is excellent, but the cabin does let in too much road rumble."
Re ride and handling, "[T]he Mazda is the clear winner in this section. The Six isn't perfection. There's an initial lightness that the steering suffers from as you begin to turn in to a corner that we'd like to see dialled out. Yet once that passes, the steering is spot on. So too is the way the chassis holds its line and controls the body through the corner, and it doesn't matter how bumpy the road gets, the Six does a better job of dealing with it than even the Mondeo."
Damn impressive overall, especially given that European reviewers generally tend to be tougher critics of chassis dynamics than American reviewers (from what I've seen in my decades of reading U.S., British, and French publications).
"It feels taut and agile, the firm suspension soaking up all but the worst road imperfections with a sophistication that BMW drivers will recognise and Volkswagen drivers will not."
here's the link if you can manage to paste it in your browsers:
www.topgear.beeb.com/content/cars/cars/C6/C1/roadtests/01.html?
qual_Id=1&newOrUsed=new&model_id=83602&man_id=C6
check it out
They're the only reviewers that seem to measure sound levels at different speeds and throttle levels (full v. cruise, hwy v. idle etc.).
Rich
Speculation is the order of the day, and keeps interest going (how many pre-release forums - except for exotics - generate this much discussion here?).
And I can then judge for MYSELF what I think of the noise level and quality, so the dB meter is moot (for me anyway, still would be a curiosity for everyone here).
Lets just say I'm driving mine until the wheels fall off. The rear view mirror fell off yesterday, so maybe its on its way. BTW, has anybody here driven around without the rear view mirror. Its seriously weird! Just this big panoramic view of the world. You almost feel over exposed...
The Maz6 is the most important car Mazda has ever launched...essentially the whole companies future rides on this car...they will get it "just right" !!
Rich
Now, for confirmation (yea nor nay) from the folks in the know.
Now that they're back on track, I hope Ford will let a good thing be and not force bad parts etc. on them. I do like that Mazda is in charge of developing FoMoCo's 4-cyl engines and likely will have a lot of impact on compact and mid-size chassis design.
BTW, I would get that fixed ASAP if I were you. It's against the law to drive that way, and if you get pulled over, you have to get a repair order and all that crap. So save yourself the drama and get it fixed.
This road test makes some interesting points, a few of which I have not seen made elsewhere:
- 2.3-liter engine with manual transmission moves the car with "brio," and the transmission is very pleasant to use.
- too much engine noise, especially at highway speeds.
- the chassis controls body movements "perfectly," and the car [with 17-inch tires] is "incisive, precise, and efficient." However, the suspension is "a bit hard" [perhaps attributable, at least in part, to those tires].
- the Mazda's strength lies more on curvy roads than on the highway, where the 6 is too sensitive to crosswinds, thus requiring frequents small steering corrections. [I don't like the sound of THAT -- perhaps this can be corrected before the 6's release here...]
- the steering is too heavy at low speeds, and the brakes are strong but with the ABS kicking in easily.
- the rear seat space is "generous," but the rear seatback is "very hard" for a middle passenger
- very high quality materials in the interior (especially the dashboard and the leather on the seats).
- ideal driving position.
(If anyone's interested, the link is http://www.argusauto.com/pages/editorial/index.cfm?IDArt=65432&IDRub=5&poplet=1 And I also have to wonder whether the blue interior color shown in the photos accompanying the article will make it to North America. I think it may be a bit too, er, adventurous for our tastes -- unless it's just a problem with my monitor!)
In any case, based on the comments in the article, it certainly sounds like the 6 will be a good bit too sporty (and I mean actual sportiness, not simply the appearance or hype of it!) for most Camry or Accord shoppers. In other words, just the sort of alternative to ordinary mid-priced cars that many of us have been waiting for...
The engine rating for the 2.3 is 160hp 155lb and 220hp 192lb(only) for 3.0.
Both engine will be mated with 5 speed manual and optional 4 speed auto with manual mode for the 2.3 and 5 speed with manual mode on the 3.0.
The models will be Mazda6 i for the 4 cylinder and Mazda6 s for the V6
Nice to see 160hp. in the 4cyl, which is 10 more than the UK version.
Anyone who wants to read the article above can copy and paste the address at http://world.altavista.com/tr.
One little thing I just noticed about the 6 is that the emergency brake is not in the center, where it is on most other sporty-cars (such as the Alfa-Romeo it was being tested against).
I'm glad to be able to see pictures of it in a different color. Silver really suits this car. Oh yeah, judging by thepicuters, I think that they have de-Altima-ized the taillights, but the video is a different story.
edmunds2460...I didn't find the 4 cyl loud at all...
If you want a car that you can steer with your pinky finger, and can't hear/feel the road or engine in, buy a car from one of the big 3 - they turn out droves of 'em. Of course Honda and Toyota manufacture that style too. Not for me. I like the road feel and the sound of my 2.5 when it's growling away up front, and a bit of extra work at the steering wheel on a windy highway trip is well worth the extra control I get on the back roads.
I don't like feeling isolated, as I do in the more luxury-oriented vehicles. OK, I do sometimes, like right after surgery (those little bumps in the road feel 1000X bigger when you have fresh stitches in you) or when I'm feeling nauseous.
Other than that, I like to "feel" the road and the "feel of the deckplates" as I drive. I consider that part of the driving experience. Now, some noises, such as those created by loose or resonant suspension components or raspy gear meshing (or is it shredding?) noises may not be welcome. It depends on the "quality" of those sounds.
http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/mz6_main_flash.asp
so only 2 trim levels (Mazda6i and 6s). What's up with the '6i', trying to imitate a BMW 325i or something?