Mazda6 Sedan

white951

Squeezing over 250hp out of a small four cylinder is very possible. My 1986 Porsche 944 turbo is a 2.5 liter and it makes 220hp in stock trim. I have modified it slightly so it is around 260. Its my daily driver and i bring it to the track 4 times a year (road courses). In 1989 it was 250hp in stock trim (0-60 in 5.5 secs). Some people out there have highly mod'd ones pumping out 300hp to the rear wheels. I can increase the horsepower on my car just by turning up the boost, which is the increased fuel and air that gets shoved into the combustion chambers by the turbocharger. However, you can't just turn up the boost without making sure that other aspects of the engine can handle the situation such as increased fuel so that the air/fuel mixture is not too lean. It can be done reliably as long as it is done the right way. Can't wait for the auto show in early November to check out this car up close.

the_big_h

and according to that Mazda news link, the Mazdaspeed 6's 2.3L turbo is suppose to be ULEV certified as well :-O

Powerful AND environmentally friendly, how nice :-D

kenoka

Powerful, environmentally friendly, and did you notice fuel effecient too? 280ps out of a 2.3 liter engine is no big deal these days. Mitsubishi has been doing it routinely out of a 2.0 liter engine (the 4G63) in their Lancer Evolution Series. So has Subaru with their WRX (usually in STi trim). In fact these two monsters usually had 300+ ps, but were listed at 280 due to the gentlemen's agreement, which apparently may be coming to an end soon. We can only dream that this is the case with the MazdaSpeed6.
One question though: Up until now, most of the articles about this car have been referring to it as the MazdaSpeed6. Since they are just about to release the MazdaSpeed Protege, this makes sense. But in Mazda's press release they refer to it as the MPS (Mazda Performance Series). I remember the MPS 626 a couple of years ago. So is MPS a designation that Mazda uses for concept cars only, or have they changed their mind about what they're going to call this car?

the_big_h

calling their concept vehicles MPS (Mazda Performance Series), as the MP3 was also designated as such during its concept/developmental stage.

ickes_mobile

when they remembered that the car didn't really offer additional performance and wasn't worthy of the MPS name. Mazda has used MPS overseas but is going to establsh Mazdaspeed as its NA "M" or "AMG" brand.

maltb

wasn't an option until Mazda officially picked it up a few years ago. It was actually a separate company that had some ties to Mazda, but not wholly owned. I think the MPS thing was already in the works and then they realized that the Mazdaspeed name could be used for such while building recognition for the Mazda brand.

chikoo

MazdaSpeed Motorsports.
It was a tuning division of the largest Mazda dealer in Japan.

Mazda took a share in it and then made it wholly its own.

harlequin1971

I lost my will to drive a 5-speed manny...it was one to many trips along a 30 mile stop and go highway commute that I realized, for every 50 miles I enjoy having a 5-speed, I drive 500 miles wishing I just had a plain, nicely functioning auto.

I owned a Civic HX with a CVT in college and that was a plenty nice tranny. 105 hp isn't a sporting engine, but I could keep up with cars in the 125-140hp range without too much trouble. Drove the A4 with a CVT (a possible choice, but a little more ching than I can "bling bling") and drove the ultra-smooth Infiniti G35 (see comments on A4 pricing above) so I am hoping that the 6 will slot in a few grand below them, closer to a full-option Jetta rather than a Passat.

I am interested, does anyone have pricing info yet? Arrival dates?

I simply love the 6 in the "Pull me over" yellow...if I could go the few extra grand, I would splurge on a RX8, but I gotta believe that the 6s should slot in around $23-24k with a few options available. If so, I might just have a winner.

If not, I might have to see what a lease on an RX8 would run me...and just wait for it...

I read a lot of press about the manual 5-speed on the 6, but not much said about the automatic. Any of the Mazda enthusiasts have some insight for me on performance/smoothness? I am looking for an auto that can switch gears in a near seamless matter and doesn't hunt much. Maybe an adaptive auto that can drive all the ponies to the tires.

taddison

There is no pricing info yet, though it is expected that prices will be similar to the 626.

Mazda is currently advertising December availability. I would guess they'll begin trickling into dealers sooner than that, but the major advertising push won't begin until there is a good supply.

As you point out, there have been many reviews of the Mazda6, but most were based on test drives done at a big press introduction in Italy where the V6 was not available. I haven't seen a single V6 review, so I think that any comments about the smoothness of the V6 tranny or its adaptive capabilities would be pure speculation at this point.

That said, there's no such thing as a transmission (manual or automatic) that can "drive all the ponies to to tires" - all drivetrains incur friction loss. Non-CVT automatics are worse than manuals because of losses in the torque converter, and "adaptiveness" doesn't change this, it only changes the shift points based on your driving habits.

csuftitans

I like the name "Mazdaspeed" better than the MPS. People don't know what brand of car MPS is from, but Mazdaspeed says it all. Besides, I've always liked the way the Mazdaspeed lettering looks:

How about this one to replace Mazda's logo?

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/indopirate/vwp?.dir=/Our+Protege5&.dnm=M.jpg&.src=ph

BTW thx to white951 and kenoka for the info on the turbos engine. I guess I haven't been paying too much attention on the engine displacement on those WRX, EVO and porsche :-).

csuftitans

I guess I don't; it's so confusing. anyway,here's the link to Mazdaspeed:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/indopirate/vwp?.dir=/Logo&.dnm=M.GIF&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t

xray10

I am/was a dyed in the wool Honda fan, but the 6 is very sharp. I'm not sure if I like the metal look of the interior, though.

mazdafun

The 5-speed AT is the JATCO unit that's optional in the MPV.

I hear the 5-speed JATCO AT is very smooth. The 4-speed AT in the Protege is smooth, but you can definitely feel the shifts. On hills, it will hunt, but you can turn off O/D to avoid shifting between 3rd and OD (and OD to torque-lockup).

chikoo

does not hunt on hilly sections, it locks in the 3rd gear most of the time(in extreme cases of lsow speeds into 2nd gear) until it reaches a plain stretch of road or a downhill section.

I think it has the gradient/slope locking feature.

can it be something else?

chikoo

the 4 speed on the 6 2.3l is the same as the one on the Protege.

mazdafun

Like on the section of I-71/75 in N-KY going southbound from the OH river. It depends on what speed, but I think my AT shifts between 3rd and 4th when I travel at about 45mph. Of course, that's why I try to get into the fast lane and get up to at least 55mph on that long uphill slope. Then I manage to keep it in 4th (though no torque lock-up...can still feel the slip in the torque converter).

On brief hills, the AT doesn't hunt. It pretty much stays in 3rd. I still turn off the O/D to keep it from engaging 4th though.

mazda6s

I see the Mazda6 info at

http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/mz6_main_flash.asp

now says "COMING THIS DECEMBER".

mazda6s

Does anyone have a link to the Sport Compact Car (August) article on the 6?

ruski

I don't know why someone here was so impressed by 200HP in a normally aspirated V6 fed by 87 octane.

Ever heard of Chrysler 300M with 250HP V6 engine?
It also makes 255 foot*lbs torque. On 87 Octane.

newcar31

The Mazda 6 3.0L makes 73 hp per liter. The 300M makes 71 hp per liter. The 300M has a 3.5L engine. Did you take that into account? Didn't think so.

hydrogeek01

The 3.0 is a modified 3.0 Ford Duratech motor used in the Taurus, but modified to include VVTI (219 hp). The 5spd tranny in the one in the MPV. Both smooth equipment, but hope that they are better than they use to be.

dudleyr

Isn't the 300m larger than 3.0 liters, like 3.5

ashutoshsm

Yeah - but (as we've already beaten to death in the 'versus' topics) look at the whole package! The 300M is one ugly land-locked boat that couldn't get out of its own way if it had to!

And yes, I have ridden in one (though I haven't driven it) - so I do (kinda) speak from experience.

newcar31

Yes, the 300M has a bigger, less efficient engine than the 3.0L found in the Mazda 6. See my post above.

ruski

so what if 300M has a 3.5 liter engine? As long as it gets the job done. I do not care about HP/L. All I care about is that 250HP is much greater than 200HP. Now when I see that Mazda 3.0 engine produce 300HP, on 87 octane, then will I be amazed.

Personal opinion: 300M is one of the greatest looking cars on the road.

Facts: 300M does 0-60 mph in 7.4-7.8 seconds. Not Earth-shattering but definitely not a slouch. The transmission is geared for high speed, this partially explains why it does not sprint from 0 more quickly but at 80mph - watch out!
300M's skidpad test is .83g. Not bad at all for a large car like that. It goes through slalom only a couple mph more slowly than a Corvette.
So please fon't diss 300M.

You guys should be happy that you will be getting a nice Mazda 6 replacement for that boring 626. But don't stick your noses up too high.

Ruski
who used to lease a '99 300M with Performance Handling Package and raced an RX-7 from 80 to 120mph and did not lose.

newcar31

Not that the 300M isn't a good car, but I don't think the Mazda 6 and 300M will be cross shopped. Don't race any new V6 Accords or Altimas in that 300M.....

the_big_h

targeted it at entry premium sedans like Lexus ES300 and Acura TL...

xeones

Interior will have the color schemes.

2 tone Tan
2 tone Gray
Monochromatic Black...(aluminum trim here only)

Basically the aluminastic comes with some kind of sport package but the sport package has nothing to do with suspension/tranny/engine choice.

as for priceing, there is a spec sheet avail on at mazdausa.com and there appears to be alot of standard equipment on the V6 car. such as auto-climate control. It leads one to believe prices will be a bit higher then the last 626 V6.

As to avaiability. All mazda intros recently have been delayed. Mazda 6 production didn't even start until September 1, 2002. Dealers prolly won't have cars until Christmas/January.

If you go to the dealer please, tell them you would rather drive a hatchback.

ALSO I would love it everyone would do me favor and send an email to Mazda telling them the Hatchback would be great for the US market.

Xeones

xeones

http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/downloads/mz6_specs.pdf

Xeones

(yeah its an adobe pdf file)

coakleysd

Spoke to a Mazda rep. The hatchback (5-door) will be released in North America in Spring 2003.

ruski

I am driving a 2002 TL-S now
It actually was cheaper to lease than another 300M.
But I miss the 300M a lot. It had a great punch at high speeds, cornered VERY well, could nicely do 4-wheel drifts, was very comfortable and spacious.
Speaking of the TL-S, mine required a new tranny after 6,100 miles.

Hanging out here to check out the new 6, it looks like a great car but I wish it had a bit more HP.

magnetophone

The 6 is a smaller car, it doesn't need that much horsepower. Besides, if you really want horsepower, there is supposed to be a "hotter" version coming down the pipes.

Your argument about the 300M and the 6 is bogus. For you, horsepower may matter that much. But who cares about the number? If it responds the way you want it to, and is better overall, then that is the key to choosing a car. The fact that the Mazda is smaller and likely has quicker gearing means that it could be a whole bunch faster than the 300M. Maybe it won't, but just because the horsepower rating doesn't seem to be very high, does not mean that the car is not capable of holding its own.

Case in point: the tiny Mini has a 160hp supercharged engine but can outrun plenty of larger cars with larger horsepower. This is not brain surgery.

Also, the Lotus Elise has a 120hp engine but goes about as fast as a Boxster. Why? Because it's lighter than the Boxster.

magnetophone

Another argument for this is concerining modern diesel engines. Here's another example:

The 2.0 engine in the Golf and Jetta puts out 110hp and propels the car 0-60 in about 10.5 seconds.

The 1.9 TDI has 90hp and propels the car 0-60 in about 10.5 seconds also.

But due to the very high torque in the diesel, the 30-60 in gear acceleration of the TDI is much much faster. Diesels with high torque and low gearing can basically outrun any equivalent in places where it really matters, i.e. you're on the freeway and want to pass another car really fast.

So, as I say again, HP is not the end all be all.

ashutoshsm

(to "HP is not the end all be all")

Too much false marketing has clouded too many consumers' understanding of this critical point!

maltb

musta been an old one.

Now for something even funnier.

http://www.mazda6.co.uk/wmv/Maz6SSm.wmv

the_big_h

http://www.mazda.ee/launch/?country=ee&language=en

these are awesome ads!

(click on the > on the lower right)

mkco

As someone involved in marketing, I cannot believe how AWFUL the majority of those ads are!!! They are typical of the "too cute for their own good" efforts of juvenile copywriters. A number are flat out in poor taste (and I'm no prude...hell, I listen to Howard Stern every morning!)

If you want to sell me a car, show me the CAR. Don't try to be so "creative" that the the "creativity" overwhelms the product.

Fortunately, these ads appear to be directed at the European market. Perhaps they fit their jaded sensibilities better. As for me, I wanna see more "Zoom Zoom"!

chikoo

don't tell me that really used that ad for the 6.
that would fall under brutality.
(honestly, it did bring out a smile on my face)

the_big_h

those ads don't do a really good job selling the product, but they sure are funny though! especially the ones that make fun of other makes :-D

the_big_h

so that's what that automatic folddown mechanism REALLY is for!

reward72

Why the need to bash other brand/models? It sounds so insecure... I dont like ads where a company compare it's product to the competition. Especially when they tell us that they have a better product without telling us *why*... I do know why, but most people dont.

the_big_h

lighten up people, those ads are of the humorous types that catch people's attention and make for fun conversation piece :-D

"say Bob, have you seen that car ad with the maxipad?"

"yeah John, it's pretty funny, what car is it for again?"

"I believe the maxipad said '6'"

"ah, Mazda 6!"

no wonder we don't get cool ads like that here

vocus

I just looked at those ads, and they were all tasteless. VW has the most interesting ads, and alot of people have said that. If Mazda wants to attract attention, they might think about using the same ad agency as VW...

vocus

The VW 2.0 has 115hp, and 0-60 in 10 seconds.

The TDI 1.9 VW engine has 90hp but 155lb-ft torque at only 1900 rpm. Still takes 12.5 seconds to do 60 though. Gets an average of 50mpg though, so it's not too bad.

My personal favorite is the 1.8T, 0-60 in 7.3 seconds, and about 6.5 with a $500 upgrade chip.

Talk about zoom-zoom....

ruski

it was the most recent generation RX-7

I did not say that I had outrun him.

All I said was that he could not get away from me.

ashutoshsm

in North America is the 1993!

And not everyone who owns older cars maintains them well for so long! And it is after all a 250hp, 200+ lbft machine. I don't know about the power-to-weight comparison with your 300M.

BTW, are you sure he even knew you were racing his car?

Anyway, lets get back to topic here - I personally loved those Mazda 6 ads! As for VW ads, they are good, but often ambiguous as to their purpose and target demographic . But always humourous, and better than most!

tomcat630

Someone earlier praised Mazda for "putting in a timing chain in the V6 for 2003". That would actaully be, putting in a Duratec V6 which has had a timing chain since day one.

mazdafun

With timing chain. Not the first I4 with one, I know, but still, a significant improvement in durability and longevity.

tomcat630

There I give Mazda props! Timing belts for DOHC engines are a saftey hazard, engine could die anytime after 75K+ miles.

chikoo

http://www.mazda.ee/6/index.html

what does the .ee stand for?

which country?