Mazda6 Sedan

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  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    vocus, my mistake, I was looking at the 1.9 PD100 engine on the UK website. I guess the pumpe-deuse makes it faster.

    As an interesting side note, they don't make the 1,9 TDI anymore in Europe. They're all PD's now.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I can't think of any Mazda engine that will die when the timing belt breaks. There are grooves at the top of the pistons to make room for the valves in case the belt does break. You don't get as much power out this design (which is why Hondas and others have interference engines), but your engine won't die when the timing belt breaks.

    All of the last gen RX7s were twin turbos. I'm sorry, one of those in good mechanical condition would have TORCHED your 300M. Either that RX7 was a POS and not running well, or it wasn't racing.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    I meant "Die" as is stop running, not destroy the engine.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    But I don't see how it is a huge safety hazard compared to anything else on a vehicle that might fail while driving. I wonder how many accidents are caused by timing belts breaking? I'll bet not many compared to tire blowouts, poor alignment, broken or failing chassis parts, brake problems, etc.
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    BMW makes a nice 2L turbo diesel that can move it's European 3-series 0-60 at 8.9 seconds. While not a blistering performance, it rates a 145hp and over 200 ft/lbs of torque. We can't import them, because Europe uses a different, cleaner diesel fuel and then engine would not perform well with US spec'd diesel.

    2007 - when the US improves its standards, will be a new era for diesel performance in the US. Absolutely best thing about a diesel? Low-rev power and torque. You are cruising on the highway and pulling 1400 rpms? Press the gas in a car and forget about it...press the gas in a typical diesel, and the car accelerates smoothly and strongly...it is the anti-Rotary design...no revving a diesel to 8,900 rpms to tap the premium power bands...they usually hit max loads at 2500-3500 rpms.

    VW's TDI can be chipped as well...and while I don't have specifics, it is supposed to make a dramatic performance improvment...who knows?

    Back to the 6. I have pasted a picture of one in yellow on my computer at home. I am thinking a V6 auto in the yellow with a bare minimum of trinkets. Luxury I would most like to have, power seats. What I am willing to pay for it, a few hundred bucks, no more (unless both driver and passenger are powered). I think paying $800 for power seats is a big rip, especially since you normally only get the driver's seat powered.

    $800 would make more sense if it was a powered seat with variable seat heater and one-touch memory function. But even then, I would be hard pressed to pull the trigger on that option.

    Anyone hear anything said about the sound systems yet? Will a premium system be available, and who makes the Mazda upmarket systems? (Is it a Bose speaker treatment?)
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The ee suffix is normally for Estonia. See:

    http://ftp.ics.uci.edu/pub/websoft/wwwstat/country-codes.txt
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    6 Wagon with a nice diesel engine would be a dream for me!
  • csuftitanscsuftitans Member Posts: 215
    http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/indopirate/vwp?.dir=/Mazda+6&.dnm=M6+Ad.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    I caught up with him while he was cruising at 80mph. He saw me closing in and gunned it. I saw pufs of smoke from his exhaust. Then he took me from 80 to 120. Is that not willing to race?
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    There you have your answer - a badly maintained RX-7. Congratulations on racing and beating it.
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    Why would anyone brag about winning a race anyway? That's got to be one of the most childish boy-racer things I've heard. Who buys a 300M to beat an RX-7? Who cares?

    That 80 to 120mph could have been a slow, steady acceleration on a freeway. Any car could probably keep up with it in that regard. And also, 80-120mph acceleration is not the same as 0-30, 30-60, or 0-60.

    A 300M does 60 in about 7.5-7.8 seconds, right? Doesn't the twin turbo RX-7 do it in about 6.0?
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Why on earth do we have to talk about those here.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    We don't. An RX7 TT is much faster than a 300M at all speeds. Period. Let's leave it at that.

    Mazda 6---I've heard that Mazda has an excellent Diesel available for the 6 in Europe. Are they not bringing it here because they don't think it will sell, or because our diesel fuel isn't good enough, or both?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    A couple of people in my car club have chipped VW TDIs. The power is really nice from what they have said, but I haven't driven any of their cars yet.
  • groovypippingroovypippin Member Posts: 264
    Mazda is not bringing the deisel to NA because our deisel fuel is dirtier that in Europe. I know that in Canada the federal government has mandated cleaner burning deisel fuel by 2007. Normally we mirror similar initiatives already approved in the US becuase of the size of their consumer market, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

    2007 is a long ways off.
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    that seems to be the story. So buy now, and enjoy what you get...because none of the super Euro-Diesels are coming to the US any time soon. But when 2007 hits, it could be a motor revolution. We will see.

    vocus, good to see you again...you are a man of many boards. :)
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    It is the 2003-2004 New Car Guide issue.

    Mazda 6 est $18,700 (I4) to $26,500 (assume TOL V6)

    Curb Weight: 2900 (est)

    Looks like US market will see the Hatchback and the Wagon, just not at Launch time.

    Strange...they made absolutely no mention of the BMW 1-series. Either BMW is so hush, hush that no one is talking...or it isn't happening quite like they planned. That is one of the supposed 2004 models that I have been trying to find out more information...

    I guess if the 6s can price in the 22s before you start adding too many goodies, I am still very interested...once we start passing $25k, other cars start to come into play that might be a bit more fun...

    They also published some info on the upcoming RX8. Looks like we can expect a $30k sticker, which is a total bummer.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    is going to be 2900 lbs, the 20 hp difference between it and the Altima and Accord may not be that big of a deal...
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Yeah, starting just under $30k. Oh well, that's kind of what they said about a year ago.

    Still, a far sight cheaper than the previous RX7 (mid $40k, I think).

    It should be a blast to drive: 250hp/165lbft, high-revving engine (but at least 80% of torque available by around 2500 rpm), 50/50 balance, low CoG. Plus, you can terrorize...ummm.bring along 3 friends and about 10cuft of stuff. I'd like to try that one on for size (headroom looks kind of skimpy...typical of these sporty cars...hope I fit, although I save a bunch of money if I don't).
  • slickdogslickdog Member Posts: 225
    Since the timing belt discussion keeps surfacing, I'll play devil's advocate. Timing belts are not quite as bad as some folks make them out to be, and their use in smaller displacement engines has actually been quite common for many years. Believe it or not, they actually have some advantages over timing chains:

    - Cheaper.
    - Lighter.
    - Quieter.
    - Easier to replace.
    - Don't have to be lubricated.

    Of course, the consumer is more concerned about the fact that a belt requires replacement well before a chain would, and therefore is probably less cost effective from his/her perspective.

    There is one additional point that usually doesn't come up in the belt vs. chain discussions. Many folks who operate engines with timing chains well beyond the 100,000 mile mark probably don't run to the shop to have the chain(s) replaced (chain wear can be significant at that point). Someone with an engine having belt driven cams is probably likely to get them replaced close to the manufacturer specified intervals. Timing chains do stretch, and they also can break.

    I'm actually happy that the 6 is using chains, but at the same time I'm not disappointed that my 626 has belts. However, I'm planning on swapping them out myself, so it won't cost anything close to what the dealer would charge!
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    A broken or mistimed belt can mean whacked valves and possibly piston heads.

    It's not much of an issue (other than your engine will stall with a broken belt or run poorly with a mistimed belt) with non-interference engines. Even if the valves get stuck all the way in, the pistons don't hit them. Still, change your belt according to schedule. You'll save yourself a towing charge.
  • csuftitanscsuftitans Member Posts: 215
    0 to 60 time is 4.9s to 5.2s, depending on who did the test.
    Price, starts at around $32K for base model and around $36 for touring pckg; that's before T&L.
    There.

    Anyway, I'm going to trade in our Protege5 for either a 6 hatchback or wagon when it comes out next year, hopefully.
    Can't wait till Sept 28 when Mazda release pics on Mazdaspeed 6 at Paris Auto Show.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Actual weights from the Mazda web site (manual trans only):
    Mazda 6i (I4) 3243
    Mazda 6s (V6) 3311

    The autos are a little heavier.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    That is pretty heavy, aren't Accord and Camry closer to 3,000 in 4 cyl 5-speed guise.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    According to Toyota's site, the 4-cylinder/5-speed Camry weighs 3086 lbs.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    manual/auto

    DX= 2989/3049
    LX= 3053/3113
    EX= 3109/3166
    LX-V6= na/3309
    EX-V6= na/3360
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Since you can't get a Accord V6 w/manual, we can't talk about the V6 models, but the Accord EX-4 would be comparable equipment-wise to the Mazda 6i. So, the 6i is 134 pounds (3243-3109) heavier than the EX-4, not really that much of a difference. This is about a 4% difference, so it's not going to be that important as far as performance goes. Of course, this assumes that the current Mazda web site info is accurate. Note that the weight of the Accord varies significantly by trim level, so we can't compare the Accord DX or LX-4 with the 6i, since there is no comparable trim level.
  • boxfanboxfan Member Posts: 180
    The weights posted above (#1573) for the Mazda6 are for the V6, according to the PDF file I downloaded from Mazda. For the I4, the numbers are 3042 (manual) and 3091 (auto). That puts it pretty close to Camry and Accord.
  • xeonesxeones Member Posts: 12
    I read on a pre-launch web site that Mazda made some modifications to the Duratec timing chain. Something to do with materials of the sprockets and the design of the actual "teeth". Supposedly this wil make the chain as quiet as belt.

    (not that the dura-tech needed any improvements right?)

    Xeones.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Oops, I grabbed the wrong data. Here's the correct stuff:
    Mazda 6i MT - 3042lbs (5.3 hp/100lbs, 5.1ft-lb/100lbs)
    Mazda 6s MT - 3243lbs (6.8 hp/100lbs, 5.9ft-lb/100lbs)
    Accord EX-4 MT - 3109lbs (5.2 hp/100lbs, 5.2ft-lb/100lbs)
    Accord EX-V6 MT - N/A (sorry, there ain't none)
    So, the 6i is 67lbs lighter than EX-4, and the 6s is only 134lbs heavier than the EX-4! Only 134 pounds and check out the power/weight and torque/weight ratios! Hmm, I think I'll go for the 6s with MT.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    that is the way to go, buddy.
    6s with MT.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    of equal equipment is likely the 6i vs. the LX. Unless the 6i comes standard with a sunroof, that's some of the extra weight...
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Yes, you'd have to add a sunroof and CD changer to the 6i to make it comparable to the EX, but I suspect that would only add a few pounds. In all other respects the 6i and the EX are pretty close in equipment (unless you get the Sport Package on the 6i, in which case the EX doesn't even come close to the 6i!). You can't really compare the 6i with the LX because of it's rear drum brakes and 15 inch steel wheels (complete with geniune Honda plastic hubcaps!). Oh yea, and no steering wheel audio controls or dual exhaust outlets on the LX either (both standard on the 6i). ;)
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    n/t
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    the Accord EX/MT and the Mazda 6i/MT are about the same weight and hp, so I'd expect acceleration performance to be about the same. If they keep the same suspension tuning on the 6 as the Euro version of the 6, it should handle better than the EX, even without the 17s in the Sport Package.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    as long as they don't use the Honda's Michellins. They are clearly biased towards low rolling resistance, all weather traction, and treadlife based on the ones on our car.
  • shado4shado4 Member Posts: 287
    Does anyone think Mazda will design and build a coupe version of the 6? I don't think the RX-8 will fill that role mainly due to its much higher price.

    I wish Mazda (and Nissan with their Altima) would offer 2-door versions that would compete with the Accord coupe.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    I think it's unlikely, at least in the near future. The problem with coupes is that there often isn't enough market demand to support it, unless you're in a market segment like the BMX 3-series is. This is probably why Honda dumped the Prelude and is now focusing on the 2003 Accord 2-door.
    Maybe in a couple years after the 6 is a raging success!
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    I fail to understand why people are willing to pay extra for reduced space, uncomfortable entry and egress, lower rooflines, reduced structural rigidity (and hence worse handling, though intangibly so, compared to the less 'sporty' looking sedan), worse visibility (larger C-pillar in most coupes, as well as less total window area) and potentially lesser safety in crashes (incomplete B-pillar positioned further back than in a sedan).

    Sorry, nothing personal, but I truly detest the coupe concept and hope Mazda doesn't bother to make one :-)
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    I always though coupes are inherently more rigid than sedans, it being having only TWO holes in its unibody compared to FOUR in a sedan...
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    ... from both sides. Hopefully someone with a good answer will respond. Although I seem to remember that the B-pillar (and an attached structural rigidity member) in the center of the roof in sedans imparted greater rigidity.

    However, even if coupes are a wee bit more (instead of less) rigid, that don't change the fact that I still dislike 'em :-)
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Some people think coupes look cooler. Maybe it makes them feel younger. After all, real sports cars only have 2 doors right?
  • magnetophonemagnetophone Member Posts: 605
    The M5 is a real sports car and it has 4 doors :) Rumors are someday it will have 5 and come in wagon form!
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    the new Mazda RX-8 sports car will be a 4 door car without a B Pillar.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The M5 should really be called a Sports Sedan. The RX8, on the other hand, presents a problem if a Sports Car must only have 2 doors. Hmmm.

    I don't see the coupe attraction either. Maybe it's a way of saying, "I'm an individual. I like the looks of a coupe, I don't care what's more practical. Oh, and I especially don't care what all you sedan lovers think!".
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    will have two big holes. Still better than four holes :)
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    I hope ":)" means you're joking...
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    Has the equivalent of the B-pillar in the form of reinforcing structural rigidity-enhancing members that run up-down in the rear (suicide) doors. And latches etc to keep it in place. Funky design, but then again, I doubt a 4-door RX-8 wouldn't look as good!

    I have nothing against the appearance of coupes, just the lost functionality and (in my understanding) reduced strength etc.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    "will have two big holes. Still better than four holes :) "

    OK, instead of saying a sports car must be a 2-door, we'll say a sports car must only have 2 holes. ;)

    (Oh no, I think I'm going to regret this one.)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    oh, uh, ah...

    how 'bout we just stick to using the term "doors"??

    :)
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