Mazda6 Sedan

chikoo

they plan to replace the Protege with the 6 as their Rally car

seminole_kev

It's a bit big for rallying. That's the Skoda Octavia's problem. Especially hurts the tarmac performance. I'd rather see them use the next generation Protege/323 as a rally car.

ambull

I heard that the Protege would be replaced by the 6 in Mazda's racing program, but I'm not sure they meant rallying or road racing or both.

kenoka

I'm pretty sure the 6 exceeds the size constraints for the WRC. Both the Mits Evo and the Subaru WRC car are at the legal track and wheel base limits. I believe the 6 is replacing the Protege in GT type events. I think the Alfa being referred to is the 156.

jjpeter

Back in post #1627 I mentioned that the factory Mazda guy said the 6 will be replacing the Pro as the race car in GT. This will most likely be in Europe-Japan where modified street cars have serious racing schedules, championships and provide bragging rights to fanatical loyal fans. The US gets NASCAR and CART, with some following of the less attended American Le Mans series and Trans Am races. Therefore Mazda is playing to a more appreciative and receptive audience.

He off handedly mentioned that the 6 was ready for 4 wheel drive, and today we hear from yugoboy that Europe is getting "the turbo-charged Mazda6 MPS 4 wheel drive model." Hmmm, Mazda is serious about going after the BMW 3 series (their model to copy for handling dynamics) and now, the A4 with an all wheel drive system powered by a hot turbo charged 4.

It just keeps getting better and better!

boxfan

I agree with you about efficiency. I was actually pretty impressed that the 6i (4cyl) with M/T gets 25/32 EPA mpg. That's not far from the new Accord, which is 26/34, I believe. I also think the 0-60 time of about 9s for the 6i with M/T is pretty good considering the mileage and the reputed roominess of the car.

I guess I don't think of lots of HP as necessary, but then again I learned to drive on a 1973 VW bus, so my standards are low. You can take curves fast in any car.

I personally would probably buy the 6 because it'll be the only mid-size hatchback available, but everything else about it sounds great, too. Now we play the waiting game.

newcar31

"You can take curves fast in any car."

Yeah, you can do a burnout in any car. You can fit 5 people in any car (it would be tough in a Miata, but it can be done). You can go offroading in any car. You can crash into a pole with any car. You could drive across country with any car. See what I'm getting at?

dudleyr

I also have low standards. Learning to drive in the mid to late 70's, pretty much everything was slow. Even a Corvette of that vintage would have a hard time keeping up with the 4 cyl 6.

I have driven the old VW bus. 52 hp is not much for a vehicle that size. It was so slow that even Consumer Reports rated it not acceptable because it could not get up to speed fast enough to merge on a highway. Still kind of fun to drive though.

boxfan

Okay, so you can take curves just as fast in a 6i as in a 6s (maybe faster, with slightly better weight balance?). You just won't get to the next curve as fast. I wasn't trying to imply that ANY car is fun to drive on a curvy road, but that a car with a good suspension and steering doesn't necessarily need 200+ HP to do it.

dudleyr, I think our bus wasn't quite as slow as some of the earlier models, so you could get on the highway just fine if you planned it right. It WAS kind of fun to drive, I used to scare my friends on the corners.

Sorry for the digression. My question is, will all options actually be available on every 6 model, or will there only be certain combinations available, like with Toyota? I would want a hatchback, 4-cylinder, manual, with side and side-curtain airbags for when an SUV crashes through my side windows. The latter options seem to be considered luxury items in this country, so I don't know if I'll be able to get them on the "base" 4-cyl manual. Particularly the hatchback, which might be low-volume. In Europe, all the airbags appear to be standard.

bmcfarland1

Being only an occasional poster in Town Hall, I hope I'm not about to commit some sort of taboo but I haven't really found any references to what the expected pricing structure will be for the "6". Please forgive my retentive nature as I am an accountant by vocation, would we expect the pricing to be just a slight increase over that of the 2002 model 626 or is a bigger boost expected what with the 6 distancing itself from the 626?

dudleyr

It seems staying alive is a luxury, but driving 3 tons of guzzler is a right. ; ^ )

It would be nice if you could order options like VW now allows. You can pretty much order a VW any way you want it now - you can even delete items that are standard on some trim levels (for example you can get a GLS without a sunroof even though it is standard - you pay the same price though). The downside is you have to wait for these special ordered cars, but at least you can get them, unlike Honda and Toyota.

boxfan

dudleyr- VW's policy is great, I'd be glad to wait for a special ordered car. I looked at the Protege5 a few months ago, and you could get side airbags, packaged with the sunroof and ABS--all luxury items? I guess paying for things you don't need to get what you do want is an okay compromise. I liked the P5 but I want a car that can fit three carseats in the back seat, which you CAN'T do in any car. I have two kids, but they can't bring a friend along in the cars we have now.

Someone quoted 18-24K US$ as the range for the 6. If they're smart they'll price it less than the Accord and Camry to get some business.

ickes_mobile

fit in a Ford Crown Vic?

boxfan

Well, I assume you're being sarcastic, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, a Crown Vic or, say, a Taurus will fit 3 car seats, but not a narrower midsize car, like a Subaru Legacy (we have one). A lot of midsize cars have gotten larger and wider and will fit 3 car seats. Older midsize cars, like my 1990 Camry, won't. I'm trying to avoid joining the SUV/minivan crowd, but have certain practical considerations.

I know it's much cooler to be young and single, but I'm not, otherwise maybe I'd get a Miata.

bmcfarland1

Boxfan, thank you for the insight on pricing. I gather that the 18 - 24K range is primarily 4 cyl. manual to 6 cyl auto. I drove a 4 cyl. 1.8 liter 5 spd 1991 Eclipse for eleven years and was tired of shifting and no power so I bought a 6 cyl auto Rodeo about 9 months ago. 200hp doesn't seem much faster than 91hp what with the heavier vehicle but I do love the auto tranny (I guess I'm getting old).

It was a huge leap for me to give $18,800 for the used Rodeo when I had bought the Eclipse new for $12,400 but I would definitely consider $22k for the "6" especially if they're is some low interest financing available.

Sorry for the rambling and thanks again.

vocus

Actually, the 1990 Camry was considered a compact car. It didn't grow to a midsize until the 1992 redesign...

white951

There are some posts a ways back which refer to the pricing scheme. The scuttlebut is that it should approximate the 626.

boxfan

Thanks for the correction. It occupied the same niche in Toyota's lineup, didn't it? My impression is that all cars have gotten steadily larger. Even as a compact, my Camry has a soft suspension and bucks and tips a lot with breaking and cornering. I like the reliablity, though. Mazda seems to have the best of both worlds (handling and reliability).

bmcfarland1

Thanks for the additional input on the "6" pricing. If its more like the 626, I should be able to get in one for the low twenties I guess if I'm fortunate.

My retentive nature probably stems from being an Accountant for the State of Kentucky and not making diddly squat while being taxed out the ying-yang but at least it's good to know that an Accountant doesn't have to be retentive...there's hope for me yet.

Thanks again for the pricing info.

vocus

Their handling is definitely good, and their reliability hasn't been too bad recently either.

the_big_h

bah, I got con-fuuuused!

I do like the Peugeot's though

csuftitans

Who wants one? or two? :-)





If you can't see anything, it means that I've reached my free 5MB/day limit, hehehe; then go here

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=88349

mazdafun

bmcfarland1

As soon as I saw the great pictures above, I thought, my, this car looks familiar. Is it just me?

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/saab/93/arc4drsedan20l4cylturbo6m/photo_2.html

ickes_mobile

Yes, I was being sarcastic. On a related thread, I was alarmed once when my wife asked the salesman if the Passat we were testing had room for three car seats (he said it did - liar). We had just been married and the idea of having a child, much less three, was totally foreign to me.

seminole_kev

except for that front chin treatment. Looks overdone and ugly. I'd still take one though ;-)

maltb

well, I dunno. I see that they both have 4 doors. I think the Saab looks more like 3-series bimmer.

tiredofmanual

I agree. The front end needs a little work. It looks a little childish. I'm not a teenager anymore.

yugoboy

take away those crappy clear lenses, and over done front chin spoiler, and the mazdaspeed6 is a winner!!!(the light's and chin are just too boy racer for my liking)

brucec35

Nice witty retort, but totally factually wrong. I refer you to the Insurance institute for highway safety site, where they state that heavier cars are, all other things being equal, safer. If you doubt this, check their death rate stats on large sedans vs. subcompacts. Putting weight in the truck will of course not make you safer. Your argument is spurious since you know that total mass in a car is generally distributed evenly, not just put in the trunk. Go ahead, go to their website and read it for yourself. You'd hate to sound ignorant here wouldn't you?
"www.iihs.org"

unixxus

I have created a link to the 4WD 280HP Mazda6 MPS unveiled at the Paris show.

http://www.mazdaparis2002.com/images/downloads/800_600_6_003.jpg

zeong

Check this out from mazda

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/public/200209/0924e.html

dudleyr

Care to clue us in what on earth you are talking about/referring to.

Might want to tone it down a little too, the host may jump in.

By the way car weight is only a factor in collisions with other vehicles. It actually works against you if you hit a bridge abuttment - more mass slamming you into a fixed object.

allen53fl

They finally updated their website to show the 2002 show dates, (11/08/02-11/17/02):

http://miami.eventguide.com/Miami_Event/100589.htm

Definitely looking forward to seeing the M6 that everyone is raving about....

boxfan

Re: Sport and Sport Wagon with manual transmissions

Does that mean that they weren't offering manual versions of the hatchback and wagon in Japan until now? Or just that it's a new transmission? Is Japan like the US, where >90% of new cars are automatics, or like Europe, where about 90% are manuals?

the_big_h

could this be the precursor of the Mazdaspeed 6 in the futre?!?!?!?!?

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/75396/page014.html

host if you can "Helpful Link" this it'll be great.

thanks!

zeong

If you look at the page closely, it's referring to the 2.3L 4 cyl. models getting the 5 speed AT transmission. That's pretty sweet.

groovypippin

Some comments on the looks of the car (since no one seems to have driven it yet). I'm very pleased with the exterior of the car. Mazda avoided making it overly "boy racer". the car retains very classy lines - but it is visually discernable from the regular 6 hatchback, which I would argue is a plus. Love the exterior colour.

I'm a little less taken with the interior. I like the blue lighting. I like the dash and the steering wheel. I do not like the uphostlery at all. I hope they tone that down a touch - or at least pick different colours.

Performance should be extremely impressive, although I have a very difficult time believing that a North American MazdaSpeed 6 would make use of the 2.3 4 cylinder instead of the 3.0 V6.

Bottom line: my guess is that Mazda will build a MazdaSpeed verison of the 6 for North America, but it will be the sedan and not the 5 door (too bad) and it will employ a modified version of the V6 instead of the 4 cylinder. I also doubt that a North American version would be AWD - but I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

Also, my guess is that a modified V6 in a North American MazdaSpeed 6 wouldn't end up producing much more in the way of horsepower than the turbocharged 2.3. Europe always gets the good stuff.

rotule

You guys probably read a lot of reviews of the 4 cylinders Mazda 6 that's been shown to journalists in Rome during the summer of last year. However, if you're like me, you've been wondering whether the V6 version of the Mazda 6 would handle as well as its 4 cylinders couterpart. After all, the car was not originally designed for a V6 and might be destablized by a heavier engine. It is, for example, the case of the Accord and the Altima.

Well fear no more because Jacques Duval, one of my favorite auto journalists, has been given the opportunity to test drive a Mazda 6 with a V6 engine. His first impressions are here:

http://autonet.ca/LeGuide/Home.cfm?ColumnID=176&StoryID=6600

Unfortunately for you english only readers, the article is in french. Let me summarize it for you:

- V6 engine is smooth and quiet like its 4 cyl counterpart

- Cornering is excellent with both 4L and V6

- Car is very much like a sport sedan, especially with the V6 which is a good fit for such a rigid chassis.

- Suspension is smooth and comfy on all types of road.

- Almost no "torque steer" can be felt in the steering (that sensation that the steering is pulling left or right during acceleration), even with the V6. This is very unusual for a FWD but very appreciated.

- Understeer is very almost nonexistent is fast curves, impressive for a FWD car.

- Conclusion: one of the best FWD car on the market.

- 0-100Kmh for V6: 7.9 secs

- 0-100Kmh for 4L: 9.8 secs

Well, that settles some of my doubts. I am a little disappointed by the acceleration times though. One would have hoped for a score that is a second lower.

rotule

By the way, a more detailed review of the Mazda 6 V6 will be presented on Jacques Duval's TV show, "le Guide de l'Auto" on the Vox Channel at 7:30PM this monday. It is in french so I guess only a few of you will be able to watch it but I'll make sure I post any new information on this board.

mazda6s

Thanks for the translation. I also have been wondering about the handling of the V6 because that's what I would like to get, but I would opt for the 4 if the V6 handling was not good. It sounds like the V6 will be just the ticket!

vcjumper

Sounds pretty high for the car, especially if it was timed with a 5-speed manual.

newcar31

Wait and see what Motor Trend and Car and Driver get out of the V6. Who wants to bet that both of those mags will get better than 7.9 for 0-60 with a V6 manual?

stretchsje

...seems high. Mazda has been running banners on various web sites boasting the upcoming 6's 220hp, but why do that if it's not going to be competitively fast? The other thing- with magazines claiming the 4cyl to be torquey and satisfying, I'd expect the 4cyl to be measured slightly faster too. My guess- those are with automatic trannys. I tried translating the article, but didn't see it specified. Either way, if it handles as good as they say, I want one anyway.

magnetophone

Not that this matters too much, but 0-100kph is actually 0-63mph. That three miles an hour actually makes a few points of a second worth of time.
If you'll notice British car magazines rate them in 0-60 and 0-62 or 63 (and usually there's like .3 or .4 of a second difference depending on the car.)

rotule

The 0-100Kmh rating was with a manual transmission.

Good point magnetophone. That would mean the V6 can do 0-60 in 7.5-7.6 seconds.

It's actually normal when you consider that the new Accord V6 does 0-60 in 7.0 seconds with 20 extra HP. After all, these are heavy sedans, not Miatas.

I would also not be surprised to learn that the V6 does not have a torque band as well distributed as the 4L. After all, it is a Ford engine

As for Car and Driver or Motortrend getting significantly better times out of the V6, I would doubt that. Jacques Duval was a professional Race driver for Porsche and many other prestigious GT teams for close to 20 years. But... testing conditions such as wind, fuel quality, tires and so on do make a difference. Let us hope.

Anyway, as I said earlier, a more complete review (10-15 minutes report during Duval's TV show) will be broadcast on monday and I'll give you the gist of it.

ambull

Zeong, I don't know what article you are reading, but the one referred to by boxfan is entitled "Mazda Atenza SPORT and SPORT WAGON Offer New Five-Speed Manual Transmission", not an automatic. I'd say this is a brand-new transmission, as it will not not be available for sale in Japan until November 1.

newcar31

remember the V6 Taurus SHO? It had a 220 hp 3.0L V6 mated to a 5sp manual in a sedan that weighed more than the M6. That car was capable of mid 6's 0-60. Is there any reason not to expect the same from the M6?

ashutoshsm

The link again (so you don't have to scroll back, ain't I nice?)

http://autonet.ca/LeGuide/Home.cfm?ColumnID=176&StoryID=6600

And the translation service (select 'French to English' and enter the above link into the 'Translate a web page' box halfway down the page)

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

Interesting that the Honda Accord becomes the Honda 'Agreement' when translated from French. I'd call it more of a 'Compromise' between good taste and good quality

Also, I'm not even going to touch the translated line "Inside, Mazda 6 is particularly roomy and the places back offer an exceptional release" with a 10-foot barge pole!

ambull

I did some research on the 89 SHO and found out that it had a curb weight of 2001 lbs, which is much lighter than the Mazda 6. You wouldn't think so, but that's what the review said. I wouldn't expect the Mazda 6 to be as fast as the 6.7 to 7 second 0-60 89 SHO, per reviews found at cars.com.
Even if the two cars weighed the same, the engines would have different HP and torque at various RPMs and the gearing would be different, which affects the acceleration.