Ever notice how in an electronics store, Bose products are in a private display away from everything else? Bose has an agreement with retailers to make it difficult/impossible to directly compare their speakers to better ones. They pay extremely high commissions to dealers because their speakers absolutely do not compare to the rest.
I read a review of Bose Acoustimass loudspeakers (their compact subwoofer/satellite system that has been their bread-and-butter for years) by a reputable magazine, and here's what they found: The response was +/- 14 db from 50hz to 11khz. This is as miserable of a response as can be! The human ear hears from 20hz to ~20khz, and a normal loudspeaker system covers most of that within +/- 3db tolerances. Higher end speakers (in Bose's price range) are even better. 10db is the equivelant to doubling the volume.
What this means is that Bose speakers are not playing music as it is meant to be heard. Instead it emphisizes certain "spikes" of frequencies of bass or treble, without naturally reproducing the recording. This may sound good on its own, but if you compared the Bose speakers directly to a nother pair, you'd realize, "Oh, that's what this recording is supposed to sound like." You'll also notice that Bose speakers typically don't extend nearly as high or low in the audio spectrum, so some sounds aren't even reproduced.
Bose owners swear by them though, and that's why Bose is known for "Better Sound Through Marketing". Check out hometheaterforum.com for more; this is off topic and that's a great forum for this stuff, and there is already a wealth of information over there.
To my ear, what Bose does do well is keep distortion down by using clean amplifiers. They also use active equilization in their amps to compensate for their own inept speakers, which makes their car systems sound a little better. Still, Bose sucks, especially for the outrageous prices they charge :-)
Amen to that! For what you spend on bose, even for home (theater) audio, your money can be MUCH better spent elsewhere. And of all the (factory upgraded) car speaker systems I've listened to, the Bose ones have been the least impressive, with the Harman Kardons in BMWs and the Mark Levinson (sp?) in the Lexus' being another impressive one.
What do you think of the Monsoons? I like the BMW's sound system (my co-worker has a 2000 323i), but I don't think hers is an HK though. Never listened to the ML one in the Lexus yet either, but I hear they sound pretty good.
IMHO they're overly bright with too much treble, and inadequate low-end response. But I may be biased because that's how a colleague (who has a Passat with Monsoon) sets his system - he like treble, gobs of it!
If music was meant to be played with the treble all the way up, the artist would have recorded it that way. Monsoon is a respectable name, and that Mark Levingson system is better than most top-dollar aftermarket systems. They really went all-out on that one.
Just read the latest Car and Driver comparo. They looked at the compact group, which includes the Mazda Protoge, Civic, Corrola et all. Who won? The Protoge! They called it the 4-door Miata. Bodes well for the Mazda6 in the inevitable comparo to the Camcord group. These car mags love tight suspensions, great road feel and progressive interiors. The 6 should shine.
The side notes on the Civic were a laugh (it ranked 4th, after the Corolla, Elantra and Protoge). "A first for Honda, a loser!" LOL!
The Protege did indeed win, but by only 1 point. Very very close behind (and about $1200 cheaper) is the Elantra. Hyundai apparently has greatly improved its quality, plus the great warranty. BUT, do I dare trust that this is true ?
behind the Protege, Elantra, Corolla, and Focus. It's all a matter of perspective, however, because European magzines such as CAR find the Protege to be another bland unremarkable Japanese box while raving about the Focus...
and in the case of Euro Focus, it's tuned to a much tighter suspension to fit European taste, which in term truly shows how excellent the Focus chassis really is.
and we will see this Euro-style suspension carry over unchanged in the U.S Mazda6's!!! thank you Mazda!
I guarantee you it will not carry over. Euro cars always have a different suspension than their American counterparts. Also, Europe's roads are taken care of a LOT more than our roads are too.
the European suspension is not much tighter than the stock US models. The S2 version had a little bit tighter setup and that was the same as the European versions.
Hmmm, since the Sport pkg retains the plastanium center console and has even more on the door panels, I guess I don't mind having the "standard" interior. And, since it looks like the two-tone grey interior has a much darker color in the top of the dash (almost black), this should minimize the reflections on the windshield!
Actually I should have clarified my statement. Disregarding the SVT like ST170 and Focus RS, there are (currently I believe) 3 different suspension setups. A luxury, firmer and firmest (I can't remember what they are actually called) The S2 setup was either the middle or firmest if I'm thinking correctly. So the US Focus are around the luxury to middle firmness.
I'm looking forward to checking out the Mazda 6 at the lot. I've been anticipating this for a little while. Like to see firm dates on the '6' Hatch's US debut.
Where is the 6. I called the local mazda dealer a few weeks ago, and was told that week someone was coming form mazda to talk about the 6. He never showed up. they told me to call back in a few weeks. Whats with that? Mazda has a web site for the 6 and will send out updates. I am still have not seen any. Does any know where or why mazda is hiding the 6.
Scroll to the bottom of the page to read the review.
“Everyone” wants soft, squishy suspensions made to soak up bumps; rides and interiors that isolate drivers from the world around them, particularly those nasty pavement undulations coming through the steering wheel and the seat of the pants that some of us refer to as “road feel”; and heavy, torque-sapping automatic transmissions that muffle shifts so completely you don’t even know anything’s happening down there under the transmission hump.
“A lot of people won’t like this,” said Kelvin Hiraishi, director of research and development engineering. “That’s fine with us; this car isn’t for everyone.”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's good to hear I can't wait to take one for a spin.
Ok, Mazda missed their chance. While Mazda is busy using its cutesy "Zoom-Zoom" this, and "Zoom-Zoom" that tag line (I even got some PR stuff signed "Zoom-Zoom" instead of "sincerely" - please) Pontiac found James Brown! Has anyone else seen the "Sex Machine" commercials? The commercials ALMOST make Pontiac cars look exciting and desirable and are as good as Nissan's Maxima ads. James Brown kicks that little dweeby English boy's [non-permissible content removed]...
... is from down under. And I like the Zoom Zoom campaign a lot - they're implying the cars appeal to the fun-loving kid in you. Although, yes, THAT kid looks anything BUT funloving!
Ya, if it was for everyone, it wouldn't be for me.
Some days, a plush ride and no input is a welcome non-existance...but on the average day, I want a response when I press the gas, input when I grip the wheel, and an idea of where my car is on the road as I toss it into a turn.
That is what I instantly loved when I first drove a BMW...feedback, feedback, feedback...something too many Americanized cars lacked, and one of the reasons why the Elantra GT is selling so well (a good selling hatch in America?) because it retained the taught suspension of its Euro-siblings...
I am anxious to actually drive one of these cars. Still among a short list of top choices.
Currently...my list is widely ranging, depending on a few factors (promotion, book deal, etc):
Hyundai Elantra GT Hatch (leather, options, low price...lame automatic saps power, suspicious safety record with Highway Loss Data Institute.)
Honda Civic HX CVT (lacking 2 essential doors and about 40 hp, but adds in a smooth tranny and super gas mileage in a fairly reliable and not completely undesired ride)
Mazda 6i (4-cyl?) Sedan (good looks, perhaps the mix of BMW spunk at Accord prices.)
Mini Cooper S (lacking 2 essential doors and an automatic tranny option. Instant appeal as a boutique car with go cart handling, niche and up-market appeal...might be too small...worried about crash worthiness in an SUV world)
Mazda 6s (V6) Hatch or Wagon (worth the wait? Will have some insight to engine performance, nice possible mix of utilitarianism and road manners...price issues?)
Subaru Impreza Wagon TS (165 hp, AWD, so so mpg, compact, but usable space...unusual look...70% of WRX performance at 75% the price.)
VW Jetta GL 1.8T Wagon (decent power, upscale interior, built in Mexico - major bummer)
VW Passat GL 1.8T Wagon or Sedan (decent power, more room, built in Germany, getting pricey)
Anything beyond $25k is a toss up. Too many cars come into the market at that price point.
That's quite a spectrum of cars you're considering - minis to estates. A lot of the cars on you're list would be on mine too, but reality factors in too easily and it gets whittled down to just a few...
Any idea whether the port closure last week will delay the introduction of the 6? Dealers must be hurting. The Mazda dealers in my area are out of mid-sized cars to sell now. All the 626 and Millenias have disappeared from their inventory.
Since the cargo just got moving early this week, and over 200 ships were sitting off the west coast waiting to unload, I'm sure some of it was inbound to Flat Rock. The Nummi motors plant in Fremont which makes Toyota products was shut down briefly for a parts shortage. I'd suspect the delay to only be around 1 or 2 weeks.
I am single, no children, don't need to tow, haul, and don't off-road. (No SUV on my shopping list)
I value, in no particular order, performance, comfort, handling, convenience, style. (They have an order, but it changes from week to week)
I want my next car to be a permanent addition, as opposed to a 2-year turn around, and it should have good reliability, good mileage, and hold up.
I can drive a manual, but prefer a smooth auto at this point because of long city commutes and bad knees and back. (My current car, a 318ti is a great vehicle...but the manual is driving me nuts after about 15 minutes in traffic.)
I prefer a little utility (hatch/wagon) and 4-doors over 2...but can still be convinced to consider a 2-door if the right intangibles are being satisfied (Hence the Honda HX and Mini Cooper.)
In other words...I still need to drive a few cars, narrow it down. Luckily, my current car is doing just fine, in no need of immediate replacement...I have more time than money, so I can test the 6 sedan...and maybe hold out for the hatch or wagon...but I do find myself getting very tired of driving my stick at 5-10 mph for 80 minutes a day.
should be near the top of your list then... and if so, then I would probably cross of the VW's. As a former owner of a 2000 GTI I can personally attest to the poor reliability. Sold after 18 months - in the shop about 10 times for various broken things.. including an engine that would just die out (first month of ownership). After owning a Honda and Acura this was very upsetting. I am now the happy owner of a VERY reliable P5 - great car! Looking forward to the 6!!
that is one reason why the 6 has me interested. I love the BMW I own now, except the row your own gears concept...it could use a touch more power, but I am not jumping into a $20+k used car that is 5 years old...so, I have to cross the BMWs off the list for now.
VWs seem to run hot and cold for people. I have owned a VW, as have some friends. I definately think the Mexico/South America models are ones to avoid (was mighty unhappy to hear that they moved the Golf production to the Americas) and if it wasn't for some minor worries about turbo abusers, I would consider a slightly used Passat.
I am in no hurry (other than getting restless in traffic) to jump into a car. So, I am willing to wait it out...but I did almost pull the trigger on a Mini. Just didn't have the job security to make it all go ATM. Hence the Hyundai Elantra GT.
I am excited to test the 6. Need to retest an Impreza (been a few years) and then drive a Passat. These are the three main players in the under $24k range. Problem is, I want to stay south of $20k if I can...and the Subie - 6 face-off may be the way to go...reliability for both seem to be historically good. Although Mazda resale has me a bit concerned...
Way I see it, VW has the appeal on resale that makes up for the nickling defects and repairs. Mazda gives you a more trouble-free ride, but you pay it out at the end of the ownership experience in lost residuals...
yes, my BMW has been very reliable for the 2+ years I have had it. Bought it used ('95 318ti) with 50k miles on it...now has 72k and has been straight the whole way. Clutch went down, but that was my fault and another reason I am forgetting about the manual options
maintainance for 2 years: $800
repair: $650 (clutch)
Gas mileage: a disappointing 23-26 mpg
residual lost: $2800 according to the Black Book.
That is how the cookie crumbles...nickle here, $600 dollars there...a little depreciation...and at the end...a car you either have enjoyed owning or have hated the whole time. I have enjoyed my 318, but am ready to go back to the slush box.
The dealer here in Honduras just got one for sale and I test drove it. 4 cyl. automatic. Salesman said it's a 2.0 liter engine. Can he be correct? Anyway, motor seems a little loud and sluggish when accelerating compared to my 4 cyl. auto. Camry. Nice champagne color with leather and rear spoiler. Great looking. I'm negotiating he throw in extras: CD changer (no CD in this one), alarm/door opening remote, floormats, window tint and VIN etching on windows. Got all but CD so far.
As you know Toronto is one of the world's most diverse cities and a lot of people like imports.
Take a look at the Honduh and Toyopet dealers and you'll see lots of them too! Even Subaru, Kia, VW, BMW...
We have 3.5+ million people in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) if not more and we are scaterred from Oshawa to Hamilton and north to Barrie, so lots of dealers are needed.
Someone in here was saying that Toronto is the 3rd biggest city in NA. If it only has 3.5 million people, it isn't even close to the 3rd biggest. The Twin Cities metro area has about 3 million people and it is one of the smaller metro areas.
This is for the Greater Toronto Area, but more and more people commute from outside this area, from the Golden Horsehoe (area b/w Oshawa and Hamilton/Niagara), so more people should be included IMO.
I do know we have one of the busiest stretches of highway in NA on the 401 in Toronto...
I'll take one of those charcoal gray 6's in the picture please!
In 2001 census , Toronto was 5.1 million, was 4.6 in 1996 (Smaller than Mexico City, LA, Chicago, NY). I don't understand why these "greater areas"/bedroom lookalike towns that are way out of the way are counted as any part of these cities nowadays though. Its not like they have anything in common with the real city/A burb is a burb.
Highway 401 in Toronto is the second most travelled highway in North America at 900,000 trips daily (Santa Monica freeway in CA is first).
The burbs are included because lots of people live there, at least here in Mpls. Mpls has about 380,000 people, but the metro area is about 3 million. Way more people live in the burbs here than in the inner city and some of the burbs look like the inner city. BTW, I like that dark grey color too.
Have you considered the Toyota Matrix? Great utility, fun to drive, and higher seating that makes it easy to get in and get out from the car. And the cost should be around 18-19K.
I just drove my in-laws Vibe to day. Nice package, although a little weak pulling into traffic. At least on the Vibe, the maximum HP with an automatic is 130. If you row your own gears, you can get 180hp. The Vibe also has some nice plastainium.
Speaking of which, I stopped at my local Mazda dealers (Morries for the those of you among the 3.5 million here from the Twin Cities)and was looking at used 2001 Pro5's. These were low mileage, late model previously owned cars (and no the Common Man did not tell me to drop on by)that were in pretty good shape.
Except for the plastainium, which was strached and realy rough looking. My suspision is that scratches show up more on the platianium because it allows the black to show through. This would be similar to what CAR reported on their long-term Civic Si Type-R interior. If the same stuff is used (in greater quanties)in the Mazda6, I'd expect similar results. Maybe I'll have to get that wood stuff they sell on the JDM web page?
No, I got my mazda6insider Internet Game Piece today, and I'm going to win it!
Has anyone noticed that on the back cover of the latest booklet from mazda6insider that the tire size in the photo is 215/45R17. The 6 info I've seen only lists 205/60R16 and 215/50R17.
I looked at Millenias today whilst asking salesman at Moterwerks in Blmgtn when the 6 would come in and of course he was pushing the Millenias......
I just don't like the Millenia, too female of a car.....
The 6 cannot come soon enough...took a Maxima 6 speed out for a drive...love the power but the rest of the car is merely ok......bring on the 6 so i can compare.....
Comments
I read a review of Bose Acoustimass loudspeakers (their compact subwoofer/satellite system that has been their bread-and-butter for years) by a reputable magazine, and here's what they found: The response was +/- 14 db from 50hz to 11khz. This is as miserable of a response as can be! The human ear hears from 20hz to ~20khz, and a normal loudspeaker system covers most of that within +/- 3db tolerances. Higher end speakers (in Bose's price range) are even better. 10db is the equivelant to doubling the volume.
What this means is that Bose speakers are not playing music as it is meant to be heard. Instead it emphisizes certain "spikes" of frequencies of bass or treble, without naturally reproducing the recording. This may sound good on its own, but if you compared the Bose speakers directly to a nother pair, you'd realize, "Oh, that's what this recording is supposed to sound like." You'll also notice that Bose speakers typically don't extend nearly as high or low in the audio spectrum, so some sounds aren't even reproduced.
Bose owners swear by them though, and that's why Bose is known for "Better Sound Through Marketing". Check out hometheaterforum.com for more; this is off topic and that's a great forum for this stuff, and there is already a wealth of information over there.
To my ear, what Bose does do well is keep distortion down by using clean amplifiers. They also use active equilization in their amps to compensate for their own inept speakers, which makes their car systems sound a little better. Still, Bose sucks, especially for the outrageous prices they charge :-)
The side notes on the Civic were a laugh (it ranked 4th, after the Corolla, Elantra and Protoge). "A first for Honda, a loser!" LOL!
Mazda6 wagon is so much better looking!
and we will see this Euro-style suspension carry over unchanged in the U.S Mazda6's!!! thank you Mazda!
I'm looking forward to checking out the Mazda 6 at the lot. I've been anticipating this for a little while. Like to see firm dates on the '6' Hatch's US debut.
Does any know where or why mazda is hiding the 6.
Scroll to the bottom of the page to read the review.
“Everyone” wants soft, squishy suspensions made to soak up bumps; rides and interiors that isolate drivers from the world around them, particularly those nasty pavement undulations coming through the steering wheel and the seat of the pants that some of us refer to as “road feel”; and heavy, torque-sapping automatic transmissions that muffle shifts so completely you don’t even know anything’s happening down there under the transmission hump.
“A lot of people won’t like this,” said Kelvin Hiraishi, director of research and development engineering. “That’s fine with us; this car isn’t for everyone.”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's good to hear
Can you say Zoom-Zoom-Zoom?
Dinu
maybe they can 'techno-fy' the "Zoom Zoom Zoom" song to make it more aggressive???
and yeah, they should get rid of that 'zoom zoom' kid before he grows up and get beat up as a teenager in middle school
Ya, if it was for everyone, it wouldn't be for me.
Some days, a plush ride and no input is a welcome non-existance...but on the average day, I want a response when I press the gas, input when I grip the wheel, and an idea of where my car is on the road as I toss it into a turn.
That is what I instantly loved when I first drove a BMW...feedback, feedback, feedback...something too many Americanized cars lacked, and one of the reasons why the Elantra GT is selling so well (a good selling hatch in America?) because it retained the taught suspension of its Euro-siblings...
I am anxious to actually drive one of these cars. Still among a short list of top choices.
Currently...my list is widely ranging, depending on a few factors (promotion, book deal, etc):
Hyundai Elantra GT Hatch (leather, options, low price...lame automatic saps power, suspicious safety record with Highway Loss Data Institute.)
Honda Civic HX CVT (lacking 2 essential doors and about 40 hp, but adds in a smooth tranny and super gas mileage in a fairly reliable and not completely undesired ride)
Mazda 6i (4-cyl?) Sedan (good looks, perhaps the mix of BMW spunk at Accord prices.)
Mini Cooper S (lacking 2 essential doors and an automatic tranny option. Instant appeal as a boutique car with go cart handling, niche and up-market appeal...might be too small...worried about crash worthiness in an SUV world)
Mazda 6s (V6) Hatch or Wagon (worth the wait? Will have some insight to engine performance, nice possible mix of utilitarianism and road manners...price issues?)
Subaru Impreza Wagon TS (165 hp, AWD, so so mpg, compact, but usable space...unusual look...70% of WRX performance at 75% the price.)
VW Jetta GL 1.8T Wagon (decent power, upscale interior, built in Mexico - major bummer)
VW Passat GL 1.8T Wagon or Sedan (decent power, more room, built in Germany, getting pricey)
Anything beyond $25k is a toss up. Too many cars come into the market at that price point.
Dealers must be hurting. The Mazda dealers in my area are out of mid-sized cars to sell now. All the 626 and Millenias have disappeared from their inventory.
We've waited this long.....
My car buying factors run in circles.
I am single, no children, don't need to tow, haul, and don't off-road. (No SUV on my shopping list)
I value, in no particular order, performance, comfort, handling, convenience, style. (They have an order, but it changes from week to week)
I want my next car to be a permanent addition, as opposed to a 2-year turn around, and it should have good reliability, good mileage, and hold up.
I can drive a manual, but prefer a smooth auto at this point because of long city commutes and bad knees and back. (My current car, a 318ti is a great vehicle...but the manual is driving me nuts after about 15 minutes in traffic.)
I prefer a little utility (hatch/wagon) and 4-doors over 2...but can still be convinced to consider a 2-door if the right intangibles are being satisfied (Hence the Honda HX and Mini Cooper.)
In other words...I still need to drive a few cars, narrow it down. Luckily, my current car is doing just fine, in no need of immediate replacement...I have more time than money, so I can test the 6 sedan...and maybe hold out for the hatch or wagon...but I do find myself getting very tired of driving my stick at 5-10 mph for 80 minutes a day.
Most days I try to bike commute or bus it...
I am now the happy owner of a VERY reliable P5 - great car! Looking forward to the 6!!
VWs seem to run hot and cold for people. I have owned a VW, as have some friends. I definately think the Mexico/South America models are ones to avoid (was mighty unhappy to hear that they moved the Golf production to the Americas) and if it wasn't for some minor worries about turbo abusers, I would consider a slightly used Passat.
I am in no hurry (other than getting restless in traffic) to jump into a car. So, I am willing to wait it out...but I did almost pull the trigger on a Mini. Just didn't have the job security to make it all go ATM. Hence the Hyundai Elantra GT.
I am excited to test the 6. Need to retest an Impreza (been a few years) and then drive a Passat. These are the three main players in the under $24k range. Problem is, I want to stay south of $20k if I can...and the Subie - 6 face-off may be the way to go...reliability for both seem to be historically good. Although Mazda resale has me a bit concerned...
Way I see it, VW has the appeal on resale that makes up for the nickling defects and repairs. Mazda gives you a more trouble-free ride, but you pay it out at the end of the ownership experience in lost residuals...
Maybe the 6 will carry better?
maintainance for 2 years: $800
repair: $650 (clutch)
Gas mileage: a disappointing 23-26 mpg
residual lost: $2800 according to the Black Book.
That is how the cookie crumbles...nickle here, $600 dollars there...a little depreciation...and at the end...a car you either have enjoyed owning or have hated the whole time. I have enjoyed my 318, but am ready to go back to the slush box.
Take a look at the Honduh and Toyopet dealers and you'll see lots of them too! Even Subaru, Kia, VW, BMW...
We have 3.5+ million people in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) if not more and we are scaterred from Oshawa to Hamilton and north to Barrie, so lots of dealers are needed.
Dinu
Toronto 4,682,897.
This is for the Greater Toronto Area, but more and more people commute from outside this area, from the Golden Horsehoe (area b/w Oshawa and Hamilton/Niagara), so more people should be included IMO.
I do know we have one of the busiest stretches of highway in NA on the 401 in Toronto...
Dinu
In 2001 census , Toronto was 5.1 million, was 4.6 in 1996 (Smaller than Mexico City, LA, Chicago, NY). I don't understand why these "greater areas"/bedroom lookalike towns that are way out of the way are counted as any part of these cities nowadays though. Its not like they have anything in common with the real city/A burb is a burb.
Highway 401 in Toronto is the second most travelled highway in North America at 900,000 trips daily (Santa Monica freeway in CA is first).
Links to relevant photos on other sites are welcome, as long as the host site does not mind.
I'm sorry, but I had to remove the recent posting of a photo, but I hope we will see a repost with a link to the photo instead.
Thanks.
Pat
Sedans Host
Speaking of which, I stopped at my local Mazda dealers (Morries for the those of you among the 3.5 million here from the Twin Cities)and was looking at used 2001 Pro5's. These were low mileage, late model previously owned cars (and no the Common Man did not tell me to drop on by)that were in pretty good shape.
Except for the plastainium, which was strached and realy rough looking. My suspision is that scratches show up more on the platianium because it allows the black to show through. This would be similar to what CAR reported on their long-term Civic Si Type-R interior. If the same stuff is used (in greater quanties)in the Mazda6, I'd expect similar results. Maybe I'll have to get that wood stuff they sell on the JDM web page?
Has anyone noticed that on the back cover of the latest booklet from mazda6insider that the tire size in the photo is 215/45R17. The 6 info I've seen only lists 205/60R16 and 215/50R17.
was Kimberly working........
Pro5, go new....
I looked at Millenias today whilst asking salesman at Moterwerks in Blmgtn when the 6 would come in and of course he was pushing the Millenias......
I just don't like the Millenia, too female of a car.....
The 6 cannot come soon enough...took a Maxima 6 speed out for a drive...love the power but the rest of the car is merely ok......bring on the 6 so i can compare.....
http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=831716
Some Mazdaspeed Proteges (thanks for correcting me Mazda6s) and some Mazda 6s.