Mazda6 Sedan

audia8q

Well, I can be the first to report that the 6 is a pretty good in the snow.

wgr

According to Edmunds, the TMV is about $1,000 less than MSRP. Hasn't anyone bought one yet or know of someone who has or talked to a dealer re price ??!!

dsm6

is a matter of personal taste, even if it is evolutionary.

I don't find the new Accord ugly. Well, lets put it this way, I wouldn't pass it up based upon looks, but then again I place other items higher on my list of priorities than looks.

I'd buy one for my wife, but not for myself.

I'd maybe buy a 6 for myself. We shall see once they actually show up around here.

coakleysd

Got a quote sheet from a dealer in Maryland for a
Mazda 6s
-Sports Pkg
-Bose Pkg
-cassette deck
-sports grille
MSRP: $23,315, sale price: $22,315. I placed a $500 deposit immediately.
BJ's wholesale club discount included!!!!

wgr

Thank you ! Looks like Edmunds' TMV is right on.

seaf

I would also like to say that I like the new accord's styling. I wasn't too impressed with some of the initial press photos of the rear, but after seeing it in person and in some of the newer photos, it looks very nice.

The Mazda6's styling is also good (haven't seen one in person yet), I prefer the european rear lights look actually. I'm cross shopping the Accord, Mazda6, and Acura TSX. Looks are only one aspect of a car that I consider when it comes time to buy. Also on the top of my list are: safety, reliability, performance, and efficiency. The verdict is still out on Mazda6's safety & reliability, whereas the Accord has a proven record on all those factors I listed above.

mazdafun

Some spare time to test drive!

capitano

are not in the market yet, regardless of the qualities of the 6. I cannot afford a second car payment at this time so I will wait. I'm not gonna lose the house to get a 6 or any car for that matter. Oh, and I would prefer a wagon anyway, which is another reason the 6 is topping my list at the moment. When's the Accord wagon coming.

civicw

Styling is subjective, but even as a Honda owner I find that the bloated 03 Accord has an 'over the hill' look. The 6, particularly the hatch is probably the most stylish of the family cars.

jjpeter

Just to point out Mazda's commitment to racing.

"Mazda's involvement in racing programs such as Star Mazda, the SCCA, Spec Miata and Mazda Extreme Street is a prime example of our commitment to furthering our motorsports heritage," said Charlie Hughes, president and CEO of MNAO. "All of Mazda's successful motorsports endeavors demonstrate why we truly can say there is the soul of a sports car in every vehicle we build."

The Star Mazda racecar, featuring the same next-generation Mazda rotary engine in the forthcoming Mazda RX-8, is scheduled for testing in 2003 and will run on the Star Mazda Series North American Championship, a support series to the American Le Mans Series, in 2004.

The Star Mazda Series develops racecar driving careers by providing an opportunity for drivers to compete on the same racetracks used for professional events and is one of the most successful racing series in the U.S. Many well-respected drivers have risen through the ranks from Star Mazda, including Formula Atlantic Rookie of the Year Joey Hand and Le Mans 24-hour GT class winner Bruno Lambert. Last year, an average of more than 40 racecars started each Star Mazda series event.

Looks like Mazda has a bit of racing heritage...

wgr

With all this bickering, I think you are missing at least one point - i.e. if the 6 is selling for about $1,000 under MSRP now, what will it be selling for in 3-6 months when the initial hoopla is over? If the economy stays the same, it will have to be discounted as much as other cars. I hoping it will drop another $1,000 by the time I am ready next June. It will be a heck of a deal then.

By the way, the reason there are over a hundred different cars and models is to appeal to everyone's wallet and tastes. Buy the car you can afford and like; quit trying to justify your decision by insulting someone else's preferences.

Can't we all just get along !

jjpeter

Newcar, do you recall the year Mazda won Le Man? It was in the early 90's wasn't it? I remember what a shock it was to the established makes at the time.

speedracer3

is that the 6 turns out to be as reliable as the 626 was. I would have been less nervous if the 6 was made in Japan rather than here at the Ford plant.

the_big_h

... back in 1991...

and then all the pist-on makers got mad and used their political power to create major handicaps on rotaries through rule changes, effectively banning it from Le Mans for a long time...

everyday

What does that mean...the 6 is made in a Ford plant???

maxamillion1

The car WILL be successful! PERIOD! If the new Altima can be successful, so can the new 6. It combines many many qualities and has nice styling too.

speedracer3

It means that the Mazda 6 is assembled in Ford's Flat Rock, MI plant...it also uses Ford's Duratec engine. Let's face it the Mazda 6 is for all practical purposes an American car. I happen to prefer Japanese made cars...they are just put together better.

newcar31

I guess that makes the Camry and Accord "American" cars too. FYI, the Flat Rock Plant aka AAI, is a carbon copy of one of Mazda's plants in Japan.

speedracer3

The difference is that the Camry and Accord are assembled in the U.S. but made with Japanese parts. I've ownd both Japanese made and American made Toyotas. The Japanese made Toyotas are just tighter. Just my preference....

doying5

Sorry folks... The V6 It is a Ford Dura Tech BLOCK. That's it. Stripped down and put together with some fine engineering I might add.

Have you driven a Ford Dura Tech Engine that sounds like the 6?

Me either.

fowler3

the Mazda6s see this URL:

On one curling section of highway I found myself sandwiched between a bus on my right and a semitrailer on my left. On a straightaway it would have been easy to blast ahead of them, but the tight curve added a dimension that in many vehicles probably would have led me to simply fall back. The 6's firm hold of the road gave me the confidence, however, to hammer the accelerator into the turn. The bus and the truck disappeared.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/auto/review/mazda_6.htm

and for a detailed analysis of the 2.3Litre (more hp and torque than Mazda's 2.5Litre V6 Miller Cycle used in the Millennia) see this URL:

http://www.mazda.co.nz/mazda6/news/maz_web_new_ph_004.html

Give us NEWS not BOOS!

fowler3

boxfan

This has been discussed here before, but...the 6 is being built at the same plant as the 626 was, so it should be at least as reliable. And all the firsthand reports here indicate that it's very well put together. I share your hesitation about the Ford plant, but I certainly wouldn't call the 6 an American car. We have two American-made Japanese cars that are very reliable. The 6's 4-cylinder is all Mazda, and the 6-cyl Duratec is Ford but it's been reliable from everything I've read and people have posted here. The MPV has the Duratec and is one of the most reliable minivans.

On a similar note, I don't know why people assume the new Accord will be reliable but say the 6 is untested. The new Civic is much less reliable than the old one was, so why should we think the new Accord will be just as good?

doying5

Hey go check out the Times site. You'll have to register but it is free.

The 6 Just got top pick there!

wonderwoman19

First, yes the 6 is made in Flat Rock. This doesn't mean it is a domestic vehicle. It is not a Ford engine, sorry to whomever said that. Second, no matter what the economy looks like, the 6 will never be sold under invoice. Why would any dealer in their right mind give such a jewel away?!
There is not thousands and thousands in available profit, sorry again. Mazda's vehicles have very modest margin, regardless of what everyone thinks. Third, I've driven a 6 against an Accord and Altima on a professional driving course with professional race car drivers..a little perk from my husband's company. The Accord and Altima are done. It's no comparision, trust me. They very obviously suck.
Fourth, Mazda's history IS racing. Mazda's were conceived for racing. MAZDA IS BACK. Go drive a 6. Don't buy an Accord or Altima because of their name. You'll sell yourself short. Have a great holiday!

jjpeter

Fowler, thanks for the link. Reviewers definitally like the more powerful six, I'd prefer the 4 though, and a five speed. Still need to get my test drive in.

Question - has anyone played with the radio and climate controls? How easy are they to grip, adjust? The US news reporter mentioned that they are flat.

Thats an area that is used often and if the the grab factor is a challenge, minus points....

the_big_h

for everyone's convenience, here's the link again, this one you DON'T have to register to view :-)

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/24/automobiles/24AUTO.html?ex=1039258560&ei=1&en=7becbbb6183dee4d

boxfan

I stand corrected on the Duratech (block). It sounds like Mazda put it together well. Is the MPV engine the Duratech unmodified?

newcar31

"The difference is that the Camry and Accord are assembled in the U.S. but made with Japanese parts."

American made Camrys and Accords are not made entirely of Japanese parts. Go take a look at the window stickers and note the North American parts content. Just by looking under the hood of some Toyotas, you will notice that they have radiators from the same supplier that GM uses.

wgr

Right now MANY cars are selling below invoice. This does not mean the dealer is losing money. It is because of rebates/dealer incentives of up to $3,000 per car. I still say we will see it with the 6 if the economy stays slow.

pat

Since it is Thanksgiving, you folks decided to serve up a groaning smorgasbord to the troll?

I can't believe so many of you don't understand and do not live by the oldest bb/web truism in the book -- don't feed the trolls.

You gave him exactly what he was looking for. Several of you realized that his sole purpose here was to bait, inflame and anger -- as long as you reward that purpose, he has no reason to stop - but I'm really surprised at how many folks literally kept feeding him for so long.

And what's really interesting is that even though he stopped posting over three hours ago (maybe his parents came home), some of you are *still* responding to him now.

Let me be very clear -- responses of ANY sort encourage a troll. No responses bore him and he goes away. It really is that simple.

Got it? :-)

Oh, and if anyone ever asks you how long it takes a host to delete 40 messages given this administratively unfriendly platform, you can authoritatively tell them it takes 55 minutes. Because I just learned that it takes exactly that long.

And to whoever said I was on vacation, well, gee, I haven't been in the Town Hall since about 9 or 10 this morning -- and I don't think I got to this discussion then, but I'm not sure -- so yeah, I guess you could call a 4 or 5 hour hiatus a vacation if that's what it is for you. Me, I like vacations to last at least a whole day or so.

;-)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

(and many thanks to those who emailed me -- I got here straightaway because of the emails, when it otherwise might have taken me several hours to find this mess.)

the_big_h

one of the keys to building good cars, for any brand, is have very good quality control on the parts provided by the suppliers, and tight quality control during assembly.

of course, all these wouldn't help if the design was bad to start with ;-)

mazda6s

2002 Mazda 626 2.5L V6
165HP @ 6000
161FtLb @ 5000

2003 Mazda 6 2.3L 4
160HP @ 6000
155FtLb @ 4000

Not a whole lot of difference there, and as I recall, the 2.5L 626 had plenty of power with the manual transmission. Hmmm, maybe I don't need the V6.

the_big_h

glad you're back from your 'vacation' to maintain order here on the forum! :-D

vocus

I always heard the auto on the 626 V6 was a little sluggish because of a lack of low-end power. I never drove one, so I don't know for sure. Any truth in that??

pat

a phrase that I've seen Dale and others use comes to mind, but I'll just say you're welcome. :-D

vocus

I know what saying you mean. For a little hint, it ends in "me"...

dinu01

Any guesses for someone with a poor memory?

Dinu

Maybe it's not suitable for the TH??? I dunno.

altersys

I'll be buying a 6s manual in a couple weeks once it rolls into my Mazda dealership's lot but I just NEEDED to drive one of these cars as soon as it came in. I was the first test drive of the Mazda 6 at this dealership (Menlo Mazda in CA). It was a silver S, loaded, auto (no sticks available yet). First off, I drive a 400 HP Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo, so I'm not exactly impressed by HP figures below 300. On the other hand, the 6 did not at all feel like a 220 HP car. I suspect this has to do with the philosophy of holistic response that Mazda seems to adhere to. My wife's 130 HP P5 does not feel as slow as it should either.

The engine was as smooth as everyone attests it to be. The powerband is very clean, and does get a little torquey in the midrange. I think this is excellent for a FWD sports sedan as it allows for the rush of acceleration that everyone craves around town, without the torque steer of long-stroked engines off the line. This is probably why reviewers have likened it to an FWD car with RWD feel. I didn't punch it all the way to the top end (this was going to be another person's car) but I was definitely impressed with the powerband's linearity. I doubt I'll be unhappy with the engine in comparison to the VQ35DE in the Altima or Maxima.

The interior is lovely. I don't mind the plasticanium that much though I would prefer flat black. It's not a big deal to me. The optitron gauges are a very nice touch. I was hoping they'd be totally invisible when the car is off but they're still slightly visible (just a detail that might help someone). They are very bright in the day and very visible in direct sunlight.

Grip is marvelous. I took some freeway exits faster than I would have in any other sedan and there was no scrubbing whatsoever. These are speeds I take corners in my Z! I didn't get to really test out the dynamic handling though as I was mostly on freeways and city streets.

The chassis is solid... very solid. No fussiness over large bumps, even over railroad tracks. Interior noise is low, but not Lexus low. Definitely an improvement over my sports car.

In person, the car did not seem as small to me as others have alluded to. I think it was modestly-sized and definitely easy on the eyes. The trunk is spacious, the rear seats are comfortably firm, but supple. I loved that the front seats were both firm, and a little cushioned in the center (perforated) sections. They were the perfect balance for me. I also appreciated how low the seat bottom can go as I prefer a very low seating postion a'la sports cars. The steering wheel felt awesome albeit a little too thin for my tastes (but nothing I owuld have a problem with). I aboslutely love that the column telescopes as I have a very funky driving position. I was able to get my seat adjusted perfectly in a minute or less.

Interior materials are top-notch (other than the plasticanium, which I know will grow on me). The dashboard and door panel material looks like it came of a 3-series Bimmer.

And for those who are curious about the stereo: I picked up a Mazda 6 options brochure and it looks like there will be an MP3 player available for the car. Don't have a price yet but I do have part numbers for the player and panel: GJ6B-79-BGXF and GJ6B-79-AGXB.

Hope this is a helpful review!

regards,
-Alt

kenoka

Were you talking about the 2.5l naturally aspirated V6, or the 2.3l Miller Cycle? Because the Miller Cycle engine in the Millenia S made 210 bhp and 210 lb.ft. The last 2.5l was rated at 170 bhp and 160 lb.ft. So while the new MZR 2.3l four is close to the 2.5l, which is a great achievement, it still can't match the output of the 2.3l Miller Cycle.

pat

It's just not a very hostly thing to say, ya know? ;-)

It starts with bite.

:-D

protege_fan

Very "informative" forum...glad I did some reading before the vacation ended.

Thanks for the review Alt!

My gf's parents are looking for a car soon and I told them to check out the 6 when it gets here.

wonderwoman19

You are correct;

many vehicles are being sold for under invoice because of incentives and rebates--those are the only two reasons. Mazda will not be releasing special financing rates or incentives on the 6 for months. That is why the vehicle will not be selling for under invoice.

Also, please don't believe everything you here about dealers "hiding" profit. Magazines need to sell magazines, right? They know how scared everyone is to buy a car, so they publish information to "arm" buyers. Just because you read something on the net or in a publication does not make it true.

Here are two ways a dealer can make profit by selling a car for under invoice:

1. Dealer Cash. (This is not to be confused with Rebate. Dealer Cash is money set aside by manufactures for dealer profit.

2. Financing.

That is it.

By the way, some advice to people who only want "the lowest price"--

I bring this up because until last year I thought the only thing that mattered when I bought my SUV was the lowest price. Believe me folks, be careful of whom you purchase your car from. I bought my vehicle from a dealer who does not give a rip about customer service. He doesn't even know my name and refused to give me a loaner when my transmission went out.

I missed out on purchasing a vehicle from a reputable dealer because I was obsessed with getting the "lowest price".
Meanwhile, my best friend bought a vehicle from this dealers competitor and gets thank you cards, follow-up calls and free oil changes once and a while. You get what you pay for. I hate my dealer!

Also, be wary of dealers who say they will sell you the vehicle for a price that seems to good to be true.

A good rule of thumb: if you are purchasing a vehicle and letting the dealer make profit, it is legitimate. If you are buying it for under invoice, or close to, and not asking the dealer to match someone else's price, when there are no incentives, be afraid, be very afraid. --bait and switch. Trust me. Get it in writing.

jaman_ca

This is for dinu, I went to Westowne Mazda (I think). They are at Dundas and the 427. All Mazda dealers should accept the X-Plan, however your company must be part of it. So the deal is: dealer invoice + 4% plus a discounted freight and pdi (from 935 to 300). So all in all its not too bad.

dinu01

Thank for the info!

What companies are part of this option? I work at Telus. I know we have a deal with GM, but I want a Mazda (or Nissan or Subaru), not a GM, Ford, Chrysler. Heck I'd rather have a Hyundai than one of those.

Dinu

jjpeter

Great review! Really like the fact that you are comparing the 6 to your ZX, which was a consistant Motor Trend top ten car of the year winner during its dominant run. You didn't mention which tranny you drove. I suspect it was the automatic, since that is what most of the 6s models are equiped with during this first production run. The fact that you were able to find one at Menlo Mazda means that most of the Northern CA dealers should have them next week.

I'm ready to jump in one and DRIVE!

zaimon

Not the X-plan list. But this one seems to be fairly comprehensive. There may be more companies... I sure hope so for myself .

http://www.johnholtz.com/specials_detail.asp?Make=6&CatID=5

Anyone know if the S-plan extends to brothers-in-law? I think i saw somewhere that Ford's x-plan has that type of feature... Luckily, I'll be able to tack on Mazda's Graduate Pricing $500 discount from whatever price I get.

Has anyone ever tried internet pricing/buying? Not too sure if this will predict the 6's selling point, but Green Valley Auto is selling their Subaru Baja's well under Edmunds TMV.

zaimon

Not the X-plan list. But this one seems to be fairly comprehensive. There may be more companies... I sure hope so for myself .

http://www.johnholtz.com/specials_detail.asp?Make=6&CatID=5

Anyone know if the S-plan extends to brothers-in-law? I think i saw somewhere that Ford's x-plan has that type of feature... Luckily, I'll be able to tack on Mazda's Graduate Pricing $500 discount from whatever price I get.

Has anyone ever tried internet pricing/buying? Not too sure if this will predict the 6's selling point, but Green Valley Auto is selling their Subaru Baja's well under Edmunds TMV.

zaimon

Forget I asked about brothers, etc... it says so at the introduction of the page.

bubacuentee

I just got back from my test drive. My girlfriend and I are visiting my parents in Minnetonka, Minnesota. I'm from Colorado and decided to give it a try when my dad was getting an oil change. I drove it at a Mazda dealer in their area.

Unbelievable machine, guys. Amazing precision and dynamics. They have this exclusively designed test drive route they take you on in Minnetonka--absolutely amazing drive. I guess Mazda had big shot engineers come out and study a map of the area to get the best conditions.

I took the freeway on-ramp S curve going about 45 miles per hour. I could not believe what this car could do. I never felt out of control.

I was considering the new Altima, but my girlfriend and I have seriously changed our minds. I checked out "TMPV" through edmunds, or whatever, and the dealer was familiar with it and had no problem with edmunds pricing.

I'm not fooling around, guys. Drive it if you haven't already. Go to a dealer that is an ultimate test drive dealer. They map out routes for you. There are only one per state, I think.

csandste

Better build quality than Altima. Not a bloated barge that looks like its mother was having an affair with a Buick Skylark like the Accord. Not booorrrrinnngg like the Camry. I'm a happy Elantra owner and must say that I prefer the Optima/Sonata to most Japanese cars but not this one. Striking-- can't wait to see the wagon and the hatch.