Mazda6 Sedan

dsm6

Speaking of which, I personally like the increased handling limit of a car like the 6 over its competition not because I want to reach that limit - endangering myself and everyone else on the road - but because that handling margin means that I can have lots safe fun driving at a 7/10ths. A good engineer always puts in margin.

OTOH every once in a while, I loose all self control. So its probably good I drive a car with limited power. ;-)

newcar31

I agree. I've never driven a 300ZX TT, but I'm sure if you can it in a couple gears, you're already at the speed limit, or above. I could never wind out 3rd gear in my Mustang without running the risk of losing my liscense. I don't know which I like better, go kart handling, or rowdy V8 power (or twin turbo V6 power for that matter). Both are really fun. I think the car that balanced handling and power the best was the RX7 twin turbo. It felt like a rocket ship, sounded really cool, and handled like you wouldn't believe. Oh yeah, it was also one of the most beautiful cars to ever come out of Japan. Too bad the engines didn't last long.

regfootball

does anyone know if the ford duratec 2.5 svt contour motor was significantly lighter than the 3.0 ford duratec?

that motor from the svt contour with a turbo or supercharger would have been light, compact and had big hp. perfect for the 6, i figure.

i am also looking forward to seeing the numbers on the turbocharged 4 that is forthcoming in the 6 awd.....but i would like to see it with just front wheel drive only.

windowphobe6

Under Japanese corporate law, if the largest single stockholder has more than one-third of the shares, it's considered controlling interest, and power is duly conferred. (By no coincidence, DaimlerChrysler has a similar percentage of Mitsubishi Motors, and Renault owns about three-eighths of Nissan.)

My local Mazda store had a total of two 6 s models to show yesterday - a black one with the Sport stuff and the Bose, and a white one lacking either. Neither with the stick. No four-cylinders, either.

newcar31

I don't know why the 2.5L SVT motor would be significantely lighter than the 3.0L. On the outside, they are physically the same size. The block is the same size, the heads are the same size, etc, etc. I am not sure how the extra displacement is achieved on the 3.0L, but it's either larger pistons, or shorter connecting rods, or a combination of both. I guess the crankshaft could be different too. Either way, none of that stuff adds a lot of weight.

protege_fan

http://www.mazda.ca/files/2004MazdaPressReleasev3.pdf

January 2004, but no prices as of yet.

dinu01

$24.5 for the I4 5spd

Dinu

protege_fan

Where did you get the info?

boxfan

Anyone see the Motorweek review of the 6? My local PBS station doesn't carry it. The web site has a brief review, which spends most of the time giving the standard info available anywhere, then comparing the 6 to the 626 (better, obviously). My favorite comment: "But we don't see the 6 as a direct competitor to the family style Accord or Camry. It's too sharp, sporty, and young to be relegated to that life alone."

dinu01

My Mazda dealer has all prices and specs.

Dinu

groovypippin

All Canadian Mazda dealers should have prices and specs by now. We've had ours for some time.

vocus

Why would Mazda launch the car as a 2004 model in Canada, but as a 2003 in the US? That's kinda weird.

protege_fan

Don't ask me...Mazda Canada's idea, not mine. I guess it might have to do with when they came out I guess. In the US the 6 came out in 2002 and in Canada it won't be until '03. Since car models come out a year in advance, I guess that would account for the difference.

I actually haven't been to a Mazda dealership in some time...I gotta head over and see the 6 info.

vocus

That's right I guess. When Chrysler introduced the 1995 Neon here, it was in January 1994. So I guess it makes sense what you said.

primera_gte

I just got back from test driving the new 6, 6cy sport fully loaded. This car has shot up to the top of my list. I was wondering what is the best price they have heard of for this car? The search function doesn't work very well. Thanks.

jtkz13

Ummmm....why are you people so complacent in hp? I mean they do offer the 4 banger, and they offer the V6 to please both types of people.

I, being 21 yrs old, love acceleration, driving fast, driving hard, but doing it responsibly.

What happens when you have to merge on the expressway at 4:30pm, and traffic is going 75mph in the slow lane. The time it takes some underpowered 4 banger economy box to get up to that speed causes everyone behind to slow down unexpectedly. This is dangerous, no?

I love dropping the hammer at 4,000 rpm in my Mustang, feeling the drag radials grip, and topping out 3rd gear as quick as I can. It's exhilerating and actually relieves a lot of stress for me.

So do not criticize hp wars, they only make me happy. You old-timers got to have your late 60's, let us younger guys have our much deserved hp war. :-D

aromas

I agree totally. My car is a Legacy GT with 165 H.P. and 165 torque and sometimes coming on to a highway I find the car struggles to get up to speed to merge into traffic and I admit a nice hit of torque puts a smile on my face as well and I am 35. To each his own and to have the extra H.P. as a choice is a nice option. As long as these midsize cars don't become rear wheel drive to eliminate torque steer because of too much power.(e.g. G35, gorgeous car but never would be an option because I live in Toronto, I think 240 H.P. is more than enough for any midsize).

marchhare

I won't list all of the things I enjoy about the 6. Most of you have already mentioned all of the things I find fun in the car. It's nice (even in my 4-cyl or maybe especially because of it) to pass people on the inside corner of the clover-leaf on-ramps. The brakes, necessary or not, have felt really nice. The fabrics and plastics are also nice.

On the other hand there are only a few things I don't like as much about the car. The turning radius--although not a huge problem yet--is kind of annoying. Backing out of spaces in our parking garage takes a couple more turns of the wheel than I'd like.

The CD player (std, non-Bose) won't take my CD if the power is off (although I think it will eject).

And the third thing is that when I'm using cruise control and use the steering wheel button to accelerate the cruise setting, it revs a lot higher than I might normally like to get the speed up higher (most often used for me to change it from 70 up to pass or after the speed traps, etc.).

I guess another thing might be a lack of places to put my change (fortunately no toll roads in TN, but could be something for elsewhere to think about). And the storage place above the console makes little sense to me. It would be a little better if the lid went back into the dash when it opened, but it just sits there. Not big enough to put big stuff in there, and a dangerous place to put little sutff if you leave the compartment open.

I listed the bad things, but as you can see they're probably not too major. The number of nice/fun things have made owning the car amazingly fun. The handling is sweet and the power is not so bad that I have any problems getting where I'm trying to go--I don't think I've made anyone slow down for me. Even if the acceleration isn't as fast as I'd like it, with the auto-manual, I can downshift and take control even in the automatic version.

fowler3

"But we don't see the 6 as a direct competitor to the family style Accord or Camry. It's too sharp, sporty, and young to be relegated to that life alone."

Right! Accords and Camrys = Japanese Buicks.

fowler3

P.S. About HP, it takes only 40hp to hold a car at highway speeds, i.e. 65mph to 70mph. The rated HP is developed @4500 to 5300rpm on some models. Who drives at 5300rpm for long periods of time? If it was legal to drive at a car's rated HP the engine wouldn 't last long.

Same thing with light airplane engines, at takeoff max power is 3000rpm to 3100rpm, then the pilot reduces power to climb to avoid straining the engine. Cruising speed is 2,650rpm and most planes can be held in level flight at much lower rpm's,
2100rpm, just loafing along.

I have flown with pilots who were so nervous about the engine quiting they ran it wide-open all the time. THAT made me nervous! Sure way to make it quit -- as in blowing up.

Although one plane I was flying ran rough and I returned it to the rental center. They said there was nothing wrong with it. I took it back up and it got rougher. Returned it again. The next day they couldn't start the engine -- it had a cracked piston -- in a spiral around the pistonhead with only 1-inch of metal holding it together. Whoa!

That's why I don't stress any engine. You don't know what is happening under the hood. In cars you can pull off the road. In planes you don't want to become an instant glider pilot.

fowler3

jtkz13

Sure it takes a lot less hp to maintain a certain speed once it is reached, but what about getting there in the first place?

fowler3

What's the hurry in getting there? This evening I was in rush hour traffic and while the line of cars were poking along at 10mph I wondered why anybody needs 250hp these days. Even during the day traffic is so slow it would rarely be used to its fullest. My driving is 95% city.

This is why the I-4 makes more sense...for me. In NC, all the roads are straight, especially in the Piedmont. To drive on a twisty road I have to go up to Virginia to enjoy real curves. Not worth the additional cost of a V-6, since I go there only once a year.

Your driving and traffic may be different.

fowler3

jtkz13

Well here in metro detroit anytime other than 5pm gridlock people drive fast. Very fast. On the major expressways if it's not gridlock you better be going 80mph in the fast lane or you're gonna piss off a lot of people. The slow lane is quite often 70-75mph (w/o tons of semi's mind you).

Sure, if you almost never get on the expressway, are always in city gridlock traffic, and dont ever go more than 40mph than you probably dont need 250hp. But, most people drive a mix, and at some point in time will need a good kick of acceleration.

Case in point:
I drove my gf's 1999 Alero 2.4L from Kansas to Detroit in September. The route we traveled had a lot of 2-laned roads, and was frequented by slow tractor-trailers. Passing was not exactly the most rewarding experience, and had to be carefully planned at least a 1/2 mile in advance. Now, if I had driven my Mustang (~260hp), or my Taurus (200hp) it would have been easier, and safer to make this essential driving maneuver.

Also remember that there is also a safety war. Look at all the airbags, driver assist programs (Traction control, stability control, etc), and improvements in crumple zones. People are just demanding more car, and are willing to pay for it. If a 140hp 4 banger suits you fine than so be it, I'm sure the Koreans will be making them for a long time to come.

mazda6s

I saw a few more cars today. I think the 6 looks best in the blue or red, and white and black is OK. Haven't seen the yellow yet. The car doesn't really look good in the silver, IMO.

I finally saw the grey interior and I like it better than I thought I would. At least the dash is real dark like in the Sport Pkg. black interior, so you won't get reflections on the windshield. I also noticed that the body fit and finish is excellent, better than I've seen on the Altima, anyway.

johnclineii

I'm just the poster. You people can comment on it. As for me, I'm running for the hills right after putting this up:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosconsumer/0212/14/d01-32629.htm

edmund2460

Please comment on the comfort and noise levels at highway speeds of your car (I assume it is a 4). Compare it with other cars you've owned, especially if you have had a PRO. What's the rpm at 65-70? Thanks

edmund2460

I'm glad we don't have the detroit metro drivers around here. I drive on 77 to CHarlotte and the slow lane is decidedly a 55-60 speed group. I don't see the point in flogging the car especially when the traffic is stop n go. There's a stretch of commute during peak time where you come to a stop every 500 feet. I lay back in the fast lane and drive at a speed that minimizes braking.In fact my goal is not to use the brakes. When I get past this stetch I speed up.

fowler3

>>I lay back in the fast lane and drive at a speed that minimizes braking.In fact my goal is not to
use the brakes. When I get past this stetch I speed up.<<

You drive like I do, look way ahead and try to time speed to light changes so I don't have to kill torque and use the brakes. On I-40 drivers cannot make any speed around Greensboro, it is usually 30mph and often less.

There is one stretch, I-40 and I-85 combined, which intersects with two main highways -- it's called Death Valley by locals. A sweaping S-curve with no deceleration lanes for exit ramps. Four lanes suddenly become three, then eastbound traffic is squeezed into two lanes - all going 70mph. Cars jocky from the far left lane across three lanes to make exits. Crazy! I stay off this stretch and use residential streets to go east.

fowler3

gee35coupe

not far off the times for the 6 cylinder? I mean isn't 0-60 in 8.? second close enough to 7.?. Isn't the fuel, insurance, and maintenance savings worth keeping the 4 cylinder. I know the 4 cylinder 6 that I drove was plenty peppy and revved like glass. I had no problem merging on the freeway.

One day I was in my 125hp Civic EX playing with a 225 hp Maxima Auto. She couldn't get much over 120 in the empty spaces so she couldn't do anything with my gumdrop green Civic. She probably burned half a tank of gas trying to leave me. My Civic was at 120 seeming happy as could be in v-tec land. Who needs a 6? Never had problems merging either.
You can always say if I had 400 hp it could have been safer to pas so and so. Or you could make due with the power that you have and pass when it's safe. When I had my 300ZXTT I loved the bursts of speed that it provided. But when we travel in the SI we still get where we are going and still are able to pass on two lanes. We just burn a lot less gas.

Notice also that the reviewer asked about ABS as a safety issue.
I had to throw that one in there.

I've been on the stretch Fowler and it is very dangerous. But I've also been on that stretch of 40 North after the 85 split. Nice concrete slab interstate. I've done 100+ chasing a Benz through there. I know how the NC cops are but it was fun.

dinu01

My 130HP PRO ES merges well and has PLENTY of go left even at 80mph. I drive faster than most on the highway and was never in a situation where I need to downshift or take O/D off to pass.

A 6cyl engine for me is overkill.

Dinu

dinu01

My 93 Civic DX w/106HP was plenty too, although it had a little diffculty on hills w/the A/C on, but on a highway, 80-90 mph w/out a problem.

Dinu

mazda6s

Actually nothing there that we didn't really know already. How many reviews will we have to read where they say it's "smaller inside than the Accord and Camry". Duh! Thanks for the great insight, dude! What the reviewers don't seem to get is that most people looking at the 6 are more interested in performance than interior volume. I have a feeling that different people will see this review as positive (as I did) or negative.

It important to note that the smaller interior volume is due largely to the fact that this is the same model (with minor variations in equipment) is sold in Japan and Europe. Note all the interest in the Acura TSX (JDM/Europe Accord) for the same reasons we like the 6.

One comment they made about the auto climate controls is true, they are a little confusing and somewhat difficult to work. I saw the manual climate controls yesterday and they are the more conventional dials, much preferable IMO.

Bring on the comparos, I can hardly wait!

anonymousposts

Our 89 Civic wagon would haul on the highway. Coldest AC we have had too. What a highway car until we put 15" wheels on it. Handled great after that but was slow as a turtle.

I don't like the Mazda 6 automatic climate controls because they look unfinished to me. That clear surrounding around the dials looks like it should have a cover or something.

stretchsje

150hp is enough for my father's 4000lb brick w/ wheels to pass on the highway. If think 160hp in an aerodynamic car 1000lb lighter isn't enough, then you don't know how to drive (considerately).

If you need to accelerate that quickly to pass, you probably didn't have room to change lanes in the first place.

Wanting the thrill of a V6 is one thing. A safety feature it is not.

barresa62

I have a 02'WRX wagon w/Vishnu pwr pkg (about 280 crank HP) from a 2 liter 4 cyl turbo. I am extremely interested in the Mazda S w/5spd & spt pkg. My interest stems from the luxury/pwr/handling/price point value the Mazda equipped as I would like offers. To me, the most important item is a car's balance and not strictly what HP is on paper. :-)

Stephen

dinu01

Dinu

ruski

so if you follow your logic you will see that it is much nicer to have a powerful V6 than an underpowered 4-cylinder. The 4-cyl will be getting stressed too much while merging onto highways and won't last as long as a powerful V6.

gee35coupe

That the Mazda6 4 cylinder did not sound stressed at high rpm. I wouldn't think it's all that stressed.

tomciviletti

Do you mean turning radius or steering ratio?

the_big_h

but I'm just so happy that my rx-7 is finally running again! I had a dead battery in the car since last week, and it took this long for the weather to clear up so I can go out and get it replaced.

Mazda 6? I can't worry about Mazda 6 right now, I'm having too much fun with the rx-7 right now!

johnclineii

Yay for you! I'm glad it's running!

I test drove a Mazda6 this afternoon. If they could get Sirius installed now, they would have sold one this afternoon, too!

bigdaddycoats

a 6 and a WRX the other night. Two very different cars but both very enjoyable. The younger side of me would like to get a WRX (took a corner at 43mph with just a little drift - what a blast). the more responsible and logical side says go with the 6 (same corner at 32mph). The WRX does what it is intended to do very well. That being said, the 6 is the best family sedan that I have driven in a long time. I drove the 6i automatic with sport package and leather. Very nice interior design and materials. Definitely roomy enough for me and the family. The 4 cylinder was fairly peppy but I would definitely get the manual and most likely the 6 cylinder. Anyway the car handled great and the ride was very firm and communicative. I will most likely wait a couple of months and hope that finance rates on the 6 get better.

I think this was already mentioned before - the December issue of Car has a great sedan comparison consisting of the 6, A4, BMW3, 9-3, S-60 and the X-type. The 6 does very well especially considering the competition.

edmund2460

I didn't have to read the review to know that the interior volume is less, but I'd like to note nevertheless that this is negative for me, because this factor is high on my list for the next car I buy. Now no one looking for performance should care about that or what I think, but Mazda IS taking some pains to compare it to the Camcords. Just look at their web site. Now I doubt the Camcord buyers are a disenchanted power hungry group waiting for something like the 6 to come along. I'm not trying to find something wrong with the 6 but it seems to me that Mazda can't have it both ways. If they built it to meet the needs of a select group, that's fine, You can't compare it to the Camcord set and then when someone brings up interior and ergonomics, plead performance. IMHO.

edmund2460

I find that Carpoint (Autos.msn.com) has different numbers in comparisons of the 6 with the Accord. Mazda's web site in general gives the Accord more room. If you look at the MFR volume numbers. Mazda has 96.1 vs 102,7, Carpoint has 98.1 for Mazda vs 97.7 for Accord.
Whom to believe? Also, how do they measure leg room? Do they assume a mid position for the front seats?

stretchsje

a 6 and a WRX the other night. Two very different cars but both very enjoyable. The younger side of me would like to get a WRX (took a corner at 43mph with just a little drift - what a blast). the more responsible and logical side says go with the 6 (same corner at 32mph).

Anybody else surprised by this? I know the 6 does better on a skidpad, and the weight and weight distribution isn't terribly different. Actually, the 6 is lighter by 100lbs.

fowler3

>>I don't like the Mazda 6 automatic climate controls because they look unfinished to me. That clear surrounding around the dials looks like it should have a cover or something.<<

The plastic surround glows red at night. Helps you to see the controls. Also, the legends on the audio are illuminated. (Legends are the control functions in text, an icon or both.)

I've wondered how they measure leg room too. After positioning the front seat for my comfort (I'm 5'-11"), I like the backrest raked more than most people, there was still plenty of legroom behind the driver's seat. The back seat cushion is higher than in a Protegé and, more scouped to hold passengers in place for fast drivers. This was in a 6S with cloth.

Guess those who have families and can fit in, will have to choose friends by height. LOL! The vast majority will travel alone or with a front seat companion. Example: In 19 months owning a Protegé I have had one passenger for a local trip.

Questions:
(1) What do you think the instant depreciation will be on the 6 when you drive off the lot?

(2) What percentage of the price do most people finance?

fowler3

fowler3

TV program this afternoon on painting cars, TNN, Hot Rod Magazine. Told how customizers get those high-gloss, deep metallic finishes. It's an 11-step process, 11 layers of painting and sanding. And they explained with graphics what mica and clear coat do.

The 6 in Redfire looks very much like a special paint job and Lapis Blue probably will, too. I have seen the Yellow and it kills the car IMHO. Looks like it would make a nice Yellow Cab or company car for Kodak. The best thing about a moonroof on the yellow is...there's less yellow.

fowler3

marchhare

jtkz13

"150hp is enough for my father's 4000lb brick w/ wheels to pass on the highway. If think 160hp in an aerodynamic car 1000lb lighter isn't enough, then you don't know how to drive (considerately).
you probably didn't have room to change lanes in the first place."

So now that someone prefers to have extra hp he/she is an inconsiderate driver? Am I the only one in this thread that actually enjoys having more hp than they need to get from point a to point b. Sure your 100hp Civic will get you where you need to go, but how much fun is it to have to floor it to merge with traffic.

I must be a dying breed of enthusiast who enojys more than the bare minumum. Or maybe it's cuz Mazda's are (usually) underpowered, and the owners dont want to see that as a fault.

mlandau1

the smaller number for the accord interior volume is for the ex models, which come with sunroofs, thus lowering the height dimension of the volume computation.

anonymousposts

I'm sure there are some people in here who "want" more power but it's far from a need when the base 6 has 160HP. The old 626 had 125 and people were happy with it. There are plenty of happy Civic Hybrid owners out there who only have 90-something HP. Not to mention the much hyped MP3 only had 140HP in it's first year and only has 170HP with the turbo version. That's why you have choices. If all you care about is HP then buy a Neon SRT-4 or a Z28.