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Comments
sheesh!!
The rest of us know better, and consider all vehicles WE deem acceptable. We ALL have our biases, whether we know it or not.
Ford bought a Japanese company and now has access to their engineering and a Japanes marque. Any reasonably informed buyer will learn what's Ford and what's Mazda.
With the rumor that the new Taurus will be based on the 6 platform, I think what you'll find is Ford working to reinvent itself over the next several years and up its product line. Seems like a good start so far.
Ford has no choice but to reinvent itself. They have lost loads of money over the last few years with the Firestone debacle and the Focus' recall-a-minute.
And untill now they got nothing or very little in return. Fortunately the things are changing for better for both brands.
Both are currently in F1 (as is Ford with Jaguar and now Ford Europe) and a variety of other forms. Mazda's accomplishments while noteworthy, barely belong in the same book with all three of these companies.
We're obviously going to remain on opposite sides of this one. I'm not going to change your mind and I'm not really trying to.
Honda in particular needs no help. Mr. Honda fairly REQUIRES that they win. In cars, they have the S2000 and don't need the RX-8 OR the Miata to confuse people with. The Civic is the prototypical tuner car.
If Toyota wanted to kick out a truly contending hot two-seater, they'd hardly need an entirely new organization to do it. Toyota is absolutely huge and make Honda look small in comparison. Besides - performance isn't Toyota's general focus in passenger cars right now anyway.
As for Ford tarnishing the Mazda name - nice try. Mazda doesn't have anything like the history of Jaguar or even Volvo, and both of those marques have benefitted immensely from Ford involvement, particularly Jaguar. Respect for both companies is way up over the last few years. I'd bet Mazda's image will rocket up over the next couple years, rather than fall 'cause of Ford.
Fact is - if the new Mazda's were to stink, then there is a problem. There'd be one without Ford. If they are good cars and marketed properly they'll do fine.
With Toyota and Honda clinging to the dependable-family image so tightly, it's a good thing Nissan and Mazda are branching out to people who take the path less traveled.
Take a look at the 2004/2005 Mustang spy photos and try to tell me that Ford isn't also evolving across the grain. Ford, in Europe, makes great handling vehicles just like Mazda does for the USA. Heck, the Ford Mondeo may be the 6's closest competitor over there. Even Forus is more reliable there. I wholly expect Ford to make some interesting products once they allocate some of their American resources from profitable SUV's to cars. They already have the cars, just not in America. Sillyness!
While I too am unimpressed with Ford's product reliability, I don't think the Ford-Mazda deal is bad. On the contrary, I think in five years both companies are going to be (will have to be!) in a much better situation than they are now.
It depends on what racing success you consider "noteworthy". IMO, Toyota hasn't really had any "noteworthy" victories. They kick butt in Ironman. Besides that, I could give a rip about CART or Rally Racing. Yes, Honda has had a long and successful run in F1 and Mazda hasn't, but Mazda's Le Mans victory is simply "noteworthy"? That's an understatement. 24 hours at Le Mans is one of the most prestigious races there are and Mazda is the ONLY Japanese manufacturer to ever win. They surprised and pissed off many automakers with that Le Mans victory.
No car company's reputation is based on winning a single race, one time. Audi has won it how many years running now? Consistency and success in any form is all I was talking about.
I couldn't care less about the type of racing and I've put no parameters on my statement - it's the experience generated that matters most, not whether we like it or not.
Ford? Been there, won LeMans years ago with the GT40. Maybe not recently, but did Mazda even exist when the GT40 was cleaning everyone's clock?
SIZE: Absolutely perfect for me. Usable back seat (unlike the Jetta or my current A4) but not with too much of a big family car feel (like Passat, Accord, Camry). Of course, if you have a family, maybe that's a negative, although Europeans consider it a family car.
POWER: I didn't expect to agree with some of the power-hungry posters. But for the automatic, I wonder if the 6-cylinder might not be a better choice. I've probably been spoiled with the adaptive transmission on the Audi, but the 6i didn't respond to a big push on the throttle as quickly as I wanted it too. I was concerned about how it would work if I had the AC running. For me, that just means I should get the manual transmission, though, not the 6-cylinder.
It's definitely what we were hoping for-sporty, comfortable, fun to drive. It will definitely be my next car, but probably in the hatch version.
Hey, thanks for the hot news!
Since they aren't using a Ford auto trans in the 6, who cares?
It's old news, get over it.
Another thing...If Mazda couldn't sell the Millenia in any numbers how do they think they are going to be able to sell the 6? It looks like a decontented, skinny Millenia. Not that I didn't like the Millenia, it's just that after the first year they didn't seem to do very well. Before someone said one make had very little imagination in designing their coupe. Well did Mazda show any by copying the Millenia and removing some trim?
edmund2460: We got a 2003 Accord EX-L for very close to invoice. Probably would have a 6 too if they had exceptional deals on them and they had been out for a few months and showed no teething problems.
Ford Motor Co. is developing a replacement for its aging Taurus midsize sedan -- once the best-selling car in America and an industry icon -- based on the new Mazda6 sedan from its Japanese affiliate, Mazda Motor Co
http://www.cars.com/news/stories/121002_storyb_an.jhtml?aff=usatoday
Taurus once the best selling car in America? That's because Ford sold to fleets and rental car companies. If you count the annual sales to individuals only for each model year the Taurus was not the best selling car.
fowler3
Even though we chose the Accord I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying the 6 .. I just wouldn't lease one.
What you see today from Toyota, Honda et al. is a direct evolution of what Ford did with the first-gen Taurus. The Japanese companies did what they quite often do - rather than invent outright, they took someone elses idea, refined it and made it their own.
Honda and Toyota may have copied after the Taurus but isn't that what we did with regards to the Germans? Henry Ford took their idea and made it cheaper to build. All good ideas have to come from somewhere, it's just competition that improves the idea as it ages.
I see more 86-89 Accords than any other car from back then. I'm sure in some areas people see more 87-91 Camrys. I also see more 90-93 Accords than any other early 90's model (see alot of 90-93 Integras too which is astonishing since they didn't sell a huge number of them). 92-96 Camrys are way more ubiquitous than 92-95 Taurus which was also one of the top 3. Either someone is collecting old Taurus' or they just aren't as durable as the Camry and Accord and are in junkyards somewhere.
Mazda 6 body kit
I seriously doubt the 6 is doomed.
As Mazda6s says, it's a car for discerning buyers, people who love driving for driving's sake, acknowledged by gee35coupe in his post. It isn't about what's in the cabin and a few little additional features the Accord has. anonymouspost bought the features more than the car -- "Everything else such as the engine, transmission, and size were close enough that it would've been a draw otherwise."
I don't give Accords and Camrys a thought when I think about the 6. And I was a Honda buyer for 15 years. Don't expect to buy another Accord ever again. They are not what I like in a car now. If I buy a 6 next year it will be my last new car, and last car, period. It will have to do me until I can't drive anymore. Why, I'm 72, going blind. I've had 31 cars in my time, tried many types. The 6 is my idea of a nice small car I want to spend my last driving days with, may be 5 years, may be 10.
fowler3
I seriously doubt the 6 is doomed.
As Mazda6s says, it's a car for discerning buyers, people who love driving for driving's sake, acknowledged by gee35coupe in his post. It isn't about what's in the cabin and a few little additional features the Accord has. anonymouspost bought the features more than the car -- "Everything else such as the engine, transmission, and size were close enough that it would've been a draw otherwise."
I don't give Accords and Camrys a thought when I think about the 6. And I was a Honda buyer for 15 years. Don't expect to buy another Accord ever again. They are not what I like in a car now. If I buy a 6 next year it will be my last new car, and last car, period. It will have to do me until I can't drive anymore. Why, I'm 72, going blind. I've had 31 cars in my time, tried many types. The 6 is my idea of a nice small car I want to spend my last driving days with, may be 5 years, may be 10.
fowler3
-Alt
Anonymous - fair enough on your comments. You're quite right - more Honda's from that era are around than Fords. However, without the Taurus, the segment simply would not have advanced like it has.
Honda and Toyota were already working on larger car designs. When Ford introduced the Taurus in 1986, the '86 Accord was also larger. How did Honda know what Ford was going to do? They didn't know.
The '86 Taurus was a very nice car, too bad the current Taurus isn't as good. Since Taurus is the name of a zodiac sign meaning Bull, the current version is aptly named.
fowler3
I forget that sometimes, probably way too often.
If I could get one with cloth seats and I lived where it never snowed, the 325 would be my first choice, but that's two too many ifs.
Had Honda delivered the goods first and not Ford, I don't think the concept would have been as well accepted in '86 or '87. Not that it wouldn't have - good stuff is good stuff. But, an American automaker presenting the new concept went down a lot easier than it might have than with a Japanese one. Especially during that time.
And you're quite right - the current Taurus is a joke. Easily the most benign driving car I've ever had the displeasure of renting. I always thought the name was a bit odd, but it's works and is unforgettable.
look under the 'Best Sedan/Coupe' category.
looks like the battlelines (happy now?) have officially been drawn.
the underdog vs. the establishment, what a better story to see unfold in the coming months than this one!
Funny someone brings that up. GM was winning the HP war with the Mustang throughout the entire last decade. It was almost as if Ford wasn't even playing the HP game, while GM's pony car offerings kept making more and more HP. Look how the HP war ended for GM......
"Funny someone brings that up. GM was winning the HP war with the Mustang throughout the entire last decade. It was almost as if Ford wasn't even playing the HP game, while GM's pony car offerings kept making more and more HP. Look how the HP war ended for GM...... "
Yep - and now the Mustang Mach 1 just finished second in front of the S2000, and Audi TT in C&D. Ford evolved the design (albeit, not much) and came up with a very good car. A balanced car.
It isn't all about absolute power. The question is this - is it any damn fun to drive, and do you like it?
Most shows like this, have the car cornering but you really don't hear any sounds. But they didn't edit that out and you could really hear the tires squealing through the turns.
I thought it was pretty cool.
not too shabby at all, if they keep their word and sell it at that price!
How often do you get the chance to take advantage of a car that hugs curves, of a car that gives you superb control, versus a car that can take off like a bat out of hades? Unless you're 16 (chronologically or mentally), you're probably not flooring the car on a daily basis.
And nobody at Mazda thinks they're going to outsell the Accord this year or 5 years from now. That would be insane. I'm sure if they match 20% of the Accord's sales they'll be quite happy -- and quite profitable.
There's a "gotta be #1" mentality that's ridiculously prevalent. Personally, I'd just as soon be driving a cool car that's NOT identical to every 5th car on the road.
All the Mazdas are 1% over except the 6.
Their Jeeps vary. 3% for a Wrangler Rubicon, 2% for a Liberty Limited, but straight invoice for Grand Cherokee Limiteds and Overlands.
Dude,
Really? The TSX has turned Accord owners into intense whiners. No need to bring your displeasure with NA Honda in here.