I think lots of cars are designed to blow after warranty. Our worst case was a Dodge Caravan that started self destructing at 50K.
I agree new bmw's are overpriced, but buying used can yield good value. I bought my 99 328 (loaded) with 14k miles for $29.5k during winter. I drove it for 2.5 years and 30k miles and sold it for $23.5. (all private party transactions) Considering that I didn't have to pay for oil changes or two sched. services during that time, I think I made out great. I'll bet two year cost of ownership on a nearly new Mazda 6 would be higher.
Anyway, is there any definite word on when the first wagons will hit the showrooms?
This is my first time to read a Mazda 6 message board in months. Mazda lost me when they started requiring one to buy a sunroof in order to get side air bags. Most of the 2003s on the dealer lots had side air bags here in New Orleans. Now, almost none of them do. A company that thinks like Mazda does is not a company from which I will purchase a vehicle. Delays in offering the wagon or hatchback, probable over-pricing of them, required bundling of option packages. It is all way beyond me and my patience. Good luck to those of you who are willing to put up with Mazda's foolishness. I have decided on a Toyota 4-Runner.
It is all about value. I thought last year that the Mazda 6 was good value for the money. The 4-Runner was a second choice. That was my opinion after a ton of research. Mazda removed its car from my list. That is my opinion. You are entitled to yours.
Actually, you'll find a lot of people agree with you on the 6's packaging. Mazda has corrected that with the introduction of the Mz3, much simpler, practical optioning.
That said, Toyota options out their vehicles as extensively as the Mazda6. Albeit you probably had a myriad of choices on your "potential next car" list I would never expect to cross-shop a 4-runner with a Mazda6 tho; moving from a mid-size sedan under 25k to a massive SUV that can option at over 40k. The cars just don't equate.
I think that Mazda should have actually rushed all three within months of each other. Maybe the sedan in March, the hatchback in June and finally the wagon in November. But, the delay could be pointed at expanding factory space to build the two versions, getting it up to US safety standards or just simply Mazda trying to build up anticipation. Either way, they've done all three and interest is peaking. Better rush it!
GM is showing the hydrogen car they're promising. And they're trying to market other GM cars by showing big GM signs all over the place on shows like 60 Minutes II.
2005 offerings from Subaru, Volvo,Saab, and others will surely raise the bar and result in lost sales for Mazda. I, for one, will now wait till September to check out all options.
well, there will be increased competition, and I'm sure Mazda has lost some customers with the delay, but it'll still be waaay better than the Ford Taurus or Saturn L300 wagons.
I'd assume the new Subies, etc will be available Fall '04. The '04 6 wagon should be out this spring. I don't think Volvo and Saab had new wagons comming out. Even if they did, I think they're in a higher price range then the Mazda.
looks sweet. Proabably the 6 wagon's size. But I don't think we're talk'n high $20's. The 9-2's a little on the small size. Is there a 9-3 wagon planned? Now that would probably look sharp and since the 9-5 wagon bases at over $32K, it might come in at the rigth price range.
are expected as 2005 models introduced in the spring of 2004, according to the dealer where I test-drove an Outback wagon last weekend. They reportedly are preparing to tool up the factory in Indiana for production starting next month. The Subaru forum speculates April-May. A new post citing an anonymous Subaru rep claims the 2005 Outbacks will be on lots the week of May 17.
have sedan's as '04 and wagon's sold as '05? The 6 wagon and sedan have no technical differences between then other then sheet metal. The USA is finaly getting what other markets have had for over a year now.
I think the rule is that for cars sold in March or later of any year, they can be labeled as the following model year. Mfgs take advantage of this whenever they can to get some buzz around a new model or a new variant of a new model, even if it means that they're mixing model years on the lot.
For example, when BMW face-lifted the 3-series coupes a couple years ago, the coupes sold as one model year and the sedans another, even with the exact same production date.
The Solaras came out with totaly different sheet metal. The BMW, The sedan was catching up to the coupe in the re-style. Here we know Wagon/hatch/sedan all share exactly the same components except for the rear 1/4 pannel. The early year designation I think just says they're gonna keep the car the same for the 04/05 model years.
I put over 50k on a vehicle in a typical year. Depreciation is a MAJOR factor for me. And we need to wait on the Mazdas prices as well. I suspect the prices on both the hatch and the wagon will be breathtaking, as in much, much higher than expected. Even if they are not, I doubt that relatively modest versions will be around to be had.
may be less, but won't insurance rates be higher if it's a 2005 model? I just wish they would offer a 4 cylinder version of the 6 wagon, regardless of model year. If the sedan model gets 19 mpg city, the same 6-cylinder engine won't be any more fuel efficient in the wagon.
Insurance rates should depend on the original price, safety equipment, driving records of the demographics expected to buy and other factors, but not model year as such.
As for a 4 cylinder wagon, I can guarantee Subaru Legacy will have one. Apparently, the Mazda will NOT. Again, consistent with a drastic move upscale from the sedan.
People, watch and see. I bet the price on the wagon and hatch is at least 3k more than the comparable sedan.
plays a pretty big role for me as I put near 20,000 miles a year on every car I've ever owned, from a pre-owned Ford Granada to my current Honda Odyssey, I've been pretty consistent mileage wise, averaging 20,000 miles to a year. The only exception was the first year I had my Odyssey when I only put on 15,000 miles, but otherwise, it's been a largely 20,000 miles per year average. I trade cars every three or four years, making depreciation an even bigger role.
Apologies if this is semi-OT, but isn't depreciation related to model year -less- of an issue in cars with high mileage? Even assuming one trades a car every 3-4 years, my experience is that high mileage in that car will be far more significant than whether the car is one year "older." To be more specific, most dealers IMO would rather have a model year 2000 vehicle with 40K on it than a model year 2001 with 60K or more on it.
I agree that, all things being equal, it would be better if the 6 wagon came out as an '05 at this point. I'm just not sure it's all that important to most people.
In fact, it looks pretty similar to the upcoming 6 wagon.
On price, I think we've got some people at Mazda saying the hatch will be about $1K more than the sedan and the wagon about $1.5K more, for comparitively equipped models. The 6 sedan is selling modestly at best, so Mazda certainly knows its got a tough sale on its hands. I believe someone on this forum alreayd has negotiated a $500 over invoice deal on a new wagon, so it not like the dealers think they have some high-demand model that they can charge an arm/leg for either.
And regardless of brochures or spec sheets, my money is that if the new model ships after March or so, it will be a 2005.
the dealers would rather have an older car with less mileage, but they'd probably want my easier to sell Civic with 74,000 miles than somebody's Chevrolet Cavalier with 50,000 miles as a used car on the lot.
So we should see the hatch and wagon in dealerships by March. I hope supply of the V6 is not a problem because online the dealerships around me have a ton of 4cyl sedans in stock that are not moving. There's gonna be a lot of new models to shop and compare this spring.
I went to the Washington DC Auto Show on Monday. They had a red Mazda 6 wagon on the floor with tan leather interor and side skirts. It was locked so I could not sit in it, but there was a sign on the dash which read, "the 5 door Mazda 6 hatchback and the Mazda 6 wagon will be available in April 2004."
Probably the same reason the Mazda 3 was locked up and cordoned off behind velvet ropes at the Boston auto show this past November. It's not yet offered for sale, there are very few examples to share, and they want to create an aura about an item you can't yet touch.
Thanks, Rich, keep the info coming, I can't wait to see the new models.
Some people have speculated there would be a $1000 premium for the hatch & wagon, but this doesn't seem to be the case; unless I am mistaken the price of the 5 door is almost identical to the price of the sedan with sport package.
Went to the LA Auto show yesterday, and they had a red wagon (W/Blk leather), as well as a copper 5-door. Both were opened to sit in, and a product specialist from Mazda N.A. claimed that a Nav system will be available for both models. He also said the 5-door will be out next month, then the wagon in the "2nd Quarter" of 2004. We'll see. The wagon had nice back seat room, and tons of cargo area - comparable to a VW Passat wagon.
Nice enough prices til we see what Mazda does with the "bundling" of options. Want SAB/SAC? Probably will have to add $3500 more to the price to get it. Maybe even with ABS. I WILL look at the 6 wagon and hatch, but more and more I see an 05 Outback or Legacy wagon in my future.
Same boat here. I want a 4 cyl wagon, so Mazda is out. The hatch may interest me though, as long as I can get it without a sunroof and with ABS. Of course a manual tranny is a must.
Subaru looks like it will have what I want with the '05 legacy, so I will see what that looks like.
If both of those fall through, then I guess I am stuck with an Accord sedan. I much prefer a wagon, but I can get the Accord exactly how I want it, and I do have a minivan for when I really need to haul things.
Comments
I agree new bmw's are overpriced, but buying used can yield good value. I bought my 99 328 (loaded) with 14k miles for $29.5k during winter. I drove it for 2.5 years and 30k miles and sold it for $23.5. (all private party transactions) Considering that I didn't have to pay for oil changes or two sched. services during that time, I think I made out great. I'll bet two year cost of ownership on a nearly new Mazda 6 would be higher.
Anyway, is there any definite word on when the first wagons will hit the showrooms?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
That said, Toyota options out their vehicles as extensively as the Mazda6. Albeit you probably had a myriad of choices on your "potential next car" list I would never expect to cross-shop a 4-runner with a Mazda6 tho; moving from a mid-size sedan under 25k to a massive SUV that can option at over 40k. The cars just don't equate.
Congratulations on your 4runner purchase!
During this delay, other manufacturers have made clear their intentions to introduce competing wagons at about the same time.
I, for one, may well end up in an 05 Legacy or Outback wagon. I otherwise would probably have bought the 6wagon.
Delay as a marketing tactic? Not in today's world.
between then other then sheet metal. The USA is finaly getting what other markets have had for over a year now.
For example, when BMW face-lifted the 3-series coupes a couple years ago, the coupes sold as one model year and the sedans another, even with the exact same production date.
- Mark
Depreciation is also a function of how long one retains the vehicle, and isn't much of a consideration for the 6-10 years crowd.
As for a 4 cylinder wagon, I can guarantee Subaru Legacy will have one. Apparently, the Mazda will NOT. Again, consistent with a drastic move upscale from the sedan.
People, watch and see. I bet the price on the wagon and hatch is at least 3k more than the comparable sedan.
I agree that, all things being equal, it would be better if the 6 wagon came out as an '05 at this point. I'm just not sure it's all that important to most people.
http://velocity.securesites.net/jrnl/2005/vmd10477ov.html
In fact, it looks pretty similar to the upcoming 6 wagon.
On price, I think we've got some people at Mazda saying the hatch will be about $1K more than the sedan and the wagon about $1.5K more, for comparitively equipped models. The 6 sedan is selling modestly at best, so Mazda certainly knows its got a tough sale on its hands. I believe someone on this forum alreayd has negotiated a $500 over invoice deal on a new wagon, so it not like the dealers think they have some high-demand model that they can charge an arm/leg for either.
And regardless of brochures or spec sheets, my money is that if the new model ships after March or so, it will be a 2005.
- Mark
Hope it wasn't to disguise a "stain" inside the door.
THE SUBIE WILL HAVE THE AWD ADVANTAGE, BUT ALSO WILL COST MORE.
MZ6 wagon 'S' manual trans.....$22,070
MZ6 wagon 'S' Auto trans.......$22,970
MZ6 5 door
'i' man trans....$20,600
'S' man trans....$22,645
add $850 for auto trans on 'i' model and $900 for 'S' model.
Some people have speculated there would be a $1000 premium for the hatch & wagon, but this doesn't seem to be the case; unless I am mistaken the price of the 5 door is almost identical to the price of the sedan with sport package.
Subaru looks like it will have what I want with the '05 legacy, so I will see what that looks like.
If both of those fall through, then I guess I am stuck with an Accord sedan. I much prefer a wagon, but I can get the Accord exactly how I want it, and I do have a minivan for when I really need to haul things.