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Mazda6 Wagon

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  • jimjpsjimjps Member Posts: 146
    I have seen some european cargo volume specs that are totally off of the North American specs (after doing the simple conversion from metric). I have been told that they don't measure the cargo to the top of the ceiling, but I don't know what the criteria are. All I can say is that the EU numbers don't always convert to the North American numbers.
    For what it's worth.....
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    That makes sense considering the figures from the conversion of the Australian figures. Maybe they don't include some space at the top of the cargo area because they figure the driver has to be able to see out the back?

    I wish they would offer the wagon with a 4 cylinder option. But some 6's these days get very good mileage, so maybe it's not a reason to forego looking at this wagon.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Really too bad about the lack of a 4- cylinder. Guess I will have to look elsewhere.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    not a problem for me. Just think of how much gas you're saving if you bought a loaded 6 wagon (automatic) versus a Ford Explorer or Toyota 4Runner.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Or check out the Mazda3 hatch.

    Really, though, for the room, the Mazda6 wagon has amazing performance and economy. Whatever would you look at instead? A Taurus wagon? Please.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    3 hatch is way to small - not much of a way back.

    The V-6 may be economical compared to an SUV, but it guzzles compared to a nice 4-cyl. Also heavier and less tossable, and generally a waste of resources. On top of all that it is more expensive.

    As it is the Mazda 4 is behind Honda and Toyota for economy, the V-6 is way back. Even a V-8 Corvette gets better highway mileage than the Mazda V-6.

    Mazda has a nice opportunity with the wagon since they don't have as much competition. They should hit the market hard with lots of configurations, instead of limiting their market. This is typical for manufacturers to hit a new market timidly with limited offerings, then complain because nobody buys their new product, and eventually cancel it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Then buy one of those nice Honda or Toyota wagons in the midsize market. I am sure you will be very happy with their fuel economy.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    You just have to import it yourself or go through one of the car importing firms, though they usually do high-end (of the price spectrum anyway) performance-type cars.

    Honda may bring it over, depending on how the 6 wagon does.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Or I could just wait - I am in no hurry. Not like I have to impress the neighbors with a new car.

    I think Mazda will wise up eventually and offer the 4.

    To me the point of a wagon is to do everything a sedan does, but with much more room. A V-6 wagon is half way towards an SUV (especially with an automatic).
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    I'm having difficulty invisioning you "Tossing your 4 cylinder MZ6 Wagon in a way the V-6 prohibits?

    We are talking about wagons? Most Americans use their wagons for highway travel. The extra 200 lbs of the V6 actually helps it feel more planted at speed on the highway. At least this was MO during my test drives of the 6i and 6s.

    Mazda knows Americans want their V6's. Actually, they want V8's and V10's.

    Americans will never care about MPG in a serious way until fuel reaches $2.50 - $3.00 a gal.

    The I4 in the MZ6 is not that far behind the Honda K24. The Mazda engine is a modern design. I will agree the V6 is not as refined as the Honda. However, if you look at some of the real world figures from 03 V6 AT Accord Sedans they are within 2mpg of my figures on my 6s AT.

    My 6s averages 21-22 mpg in 60/40 hard Highway/City miles. An 03 Vette AT will not achieve those numbers.

    Then again my brother in law is very satisfied with the 10mpg he gets in his 3/4 ton Dodge Ram V10 4X4. He uses it to haul brush, and bags of grass clippings. He likes being "above" everyone else on the road. He feels "secure."

    I know a person who would not purchase a Toyota Truck until a V8 was offered. They now own it, and love the "Big Engine."

    Now, why is Mazda putting V6's in their wagons?

    Mark. : )
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Because in Mazda's opinion, there is not enough market for a 4 cylinder Mazda6 wagon, that's why!
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    I would like to see the Euro spec Accord tourer offered in the US. Nice large boot with good kit.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    "We are talking about wagons? Most Americans use their wagons for highway travel."

    Big assumption, kinda like most Americans use their SUV's for going off road, or their sports cars for racing.

    The fact is a wagon is a sedan with a more flexible interior, more luggage space, and more rear headroom. How does that translate to highway travel. If you want to make assumptions, how about an assumption that wagon owners care more about efficiency (after all they are buying an efficient cargo are), and if they have kids they might care more about cost (college is not getting cheaper)

    As far as feeling planted, my Integra at 500+ lbs lighter feels plenty planted here where the speed limit is 75 and cruising at 80 does not even raise eyebrows. I could care less about how it feels at 130 because I have no need to go that fast. BTW what does an Indy car weigh (less than 2,000 lbs)? They are pretty well planted.

    What I don't understand is why back up Mazda's decision to offer fewer choices, especially since most 6's sold are the 4-cyl.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    It is my understanding that most 6's sold have been the 6 cylinder, and that in fact Mazda had goofed by building so many 4 cylinder automatics that had to be sold with very high rebates.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Mazda could not build enough V6 cars. If Mazda would have offered the 6i with the 5-Speed AT things could have been very different. But in typical Mazda fashion, they missed it on both ends.

    The V6 Wagon will do very well. If we did not already own a MPV I might have even considered one. However, I doubt if it would have increased the 529 contributions for my children.

    Peace,
    Mark. : )
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Mazda did have a shortage of the V-6 (even more reason to not use up more production on the wagon), but I was under the impression that they were still selling more 4's. In other words (I am making these numbers up) if Mazda guessed that 25% of people wanted the 6 and had to raise production by 50%, then they would still be at around 38% with the 6 cyl. I know sales figures are out there, but am not inclined to search for them right now, and will conceed that the V-6 may be getting close to 50%, but that still leaves a lot of people who are buying the 4.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    still, it probably wouldn't have hurt to offer a 4cyl wagon for those looking for space from an economical point of view. A mazda6 wagon at a sedan price is a killer deal.

    the flip of that is they need to sell Mazda3's and hatchback6's as well. So I assume the hatch has a 4 cyl. option. I see the Mazda6 hatch actually stealing four cylinder sales from the sedan.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    will the hatch be offered in a 4 cylinder combination?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    can we get tiptronic shifting on the V6 models, just like the sedan? the only real competitor to the 6 Wagon is the Passat- and that's WAAAAAY overpriced for many people.
  • slickdogslickdog Member Posts: 225
    If you want a 4 cyl. wagon with good mileage, why not look at Legacy/Outback? I wanted to get a 6 wagon for my wife, but couldn't wait and settled on an Outback instead. It's a bit narrower than my 626, but easily holds the four of us and all our stuff. We've gotten 28-29MPG highway with it fully loaded and the A/C on for family trips, and only slightly less around town. It is a bit reluctant to climb hills without using lots of throttle when heavy, but definitely not the worse I've ever experienced. I doubt it's as fun to drive as a 6, and perhaps not as attractive, but it's better than a Taurus/Sable in many respects, and a lot cheaper than a Passat! Build quality seems comparable to Mazda too.

    BTW, nobody is going to win an argument about I4 vs. V6, because many people who like having 4 cylinders think 6 is a waste, and many people who like having 6 cylinders don't think they can get along with less. I personally own both, and I would say that objectively speaking, they are about dead even for pros and cons, you just need to decide which suits your needs and desires best. It does seem that Mazda would benefit from offering an I4 in the 6 wagon, I can't imagine that it wouldn't sell, but they're certainly not the only manufacturer that restricts our options. It seems the domestic automakers are really best at offering something for everyone, but financially speaking, that probably does incur quite a lot of risk. Mazda must feel that the wagon will be more popular with the V6. I for one am a Mazda owner because they offer mid-size sedans equipped with a V6 and a manual transmission. Try to get that configuration from Honda or Toyota! So you see, Mazda does offer some options that the others don't, they probably just don't have the resources to be all things to all people.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Sport wagons are. So I'm sure the limited demand for a wagon will be for people who want a BMW/Benz/Saab wagon but at 10 grand less. That's why the 6 wagon will be in loaded "S" trim and be V6 powered only. The wagon is filling a great niche that's only occupied by expensive Euro brands. Problem is it's not a big niche.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    but it will beat the Taurus by a lot......
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    I would love to see sport wagon versions of the Accord, TSX, etc. I know the Accord wagon is alive in a few countries. Shouldn't take Honda much to make wagon versions of these fine sedans.
  • daschtickdaschtick Member Posts: 63
    ..either in Honda or Acura form. We are currently looking for a wagon type vehicle to replace her '92 Legend with, and there aren't many choices. She likes the Passat and the Volvos, but coming from Acura reliability and service, we're afraid of both of them. The Mazda 6 might be nice, but it may be a little smaller than she wants. The Infiniti FX is too tall, expensive, and thirsty, but boy, is it fun to drive!
    An Accord wagon is exactly what we'd like, or maybe a wagon styled after the new TL - now that would be perfect!
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    I found the Mazda and Honda UK sites and the wagon photo and specs are available there. (Engines are different as it seems no V6's in the UK models.) I would assume that if the wagon versions were built in the UK, these would be the versions imported here rather then produce a low volume run here in the US. Any thoughts? Some of the Honda CRV's are imported from the UK. With Pontiac bringing a Holden over to be the GTO, I think you'll see more cross-border swaping of models in the future.
    www.honda.co.uk
    www.mazda6.co.uk
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The UK Accord is sold here as the Acura TSX. IMHO, I doubt that Honda would bring the wagon here and try to sell it as an Accord. If they brought it and tried to sell it as an Acura, it would do OK.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Similarly, the wagon version of the European (and other markets outside of NA) will be smaller than the NA sedan. It's more similar in size to the 6 wagon and Subaru Legacy wagon, both of which are designed for multiple markets. Might be a tad narrower, but check the European sites to confirm.

    Don't know if Honda is designing a wagon version of the NA-market Accord. If so, it'd likely be larger than the 6 wagon.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    I guess a US Accord wagon would be more in the range of the Ford Taurus Wagon. I'm a bigger fan of the TSX styling, I guess that's why the UK wagon looked so nice. OK then a TSX or Mazda 6 Wagon must be more on the scale of the Benz 300 series wagon. A little small, but if the 6 wagon takes off, I don't think it would be a big issue for Honda to get a low volume run over here if the TSX motor/dashboard/safety features already exist in production. I still think this route makes more sense then a US accord based wagon {probably look better too.)
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    Honda discontinued the Accord wagon several years ago in North America due to low sales volume. I haven't read anywhere that they are considering re-entering the market.
       The wagon I would like to see re-introduced here is the Camry wagon. Those are still available in Australia.
       Anyway, I think the niche comments are correct. I like the looks of the Saab wagon but wouldn't spend close to $30K for a vehicle. I'm not a fan of Subaru, or Ford. That's why I'm interested in the 6 wagon. Is the fact that Mazda now is owned by Ford of any concern here?
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    starts at $32K+. The 6 wagon will come in with "S" trim so I doubt you'll see one under 27K.
    I don't think Ford owns over 51% of Mazda. The engine will be Ford's 3.0L which has been solid so far. Even before Ford's influence, I never did think Mazda had the same quality of Honda or Toyota. But it has improved, and in some ways, the others have dropped a bit. If 6 wagon sales have problems like the 6 sedan, the wagon might become a great bargain: great styling, power along with cash back and or 0% financing deals.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Ford owns 34 percent of Mazda, which, under Japanese law, is enough to control it provided no one else owns more. No one does.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    27K is a good bit more than other people's projected cost for the 6 wagon. Newspaper ads in Boston list the Saab wagon starting at 26K or 27K. Those no doubt are well under the MSRP, but if the price of the 6 wagon is that high I don't think it will sell well. If it ends up being priced at 20K-22K, the only direct competitor in terms of Japanese imports would seem to be the Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback Ralliart wagon, which starts under 20K.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I'd add $1000-1500 to a base V6 sedan to arrive at a price for the V6 wagon. Given how late it has appeared, slowness of 6 sales in general, continued issues at the factory building cars that people want, and finally the competition existing and looming on the horizon, I'd predict discounts right out of the chute. It is just too little, too late.

    - Mark
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    mean lower resale values which means that any college kid can get one used cheap!!! (like my neighbor)
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Cars in high demand offer a precieved higher value to their buyers. If you recieved a discount for the car new why shouldn't that reflect in it's resale down the road. Edmunds list dealer invoice at 30K for '94 Saab wagons so adverts for 27K must be leftovers or demos. I'm sure the 6 wagons will be low volume and loaded with options keeping it in the 26-28K range. Still might be precieved as a bargain to Saab/BMW/Benz want-a-be's. The styling is there, much beter then the Lancer
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    With all due respect, you can't compare 94 and 04 SAAB's. The latter has far more influence from General Motors. Many SAAB people would sadly tell you that the 04 is NOT a SAAB.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    would be true, in a way. The 9-3 is based off the same platform the Malibu is based off of, and the 9-5 is a rebadged Opel.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    ... is that the list price for a 2004 (not 1994) Saab wagon starts at $32,000. The ones advertised in the Boston Globe for $6,000 less than that have been billed as brand new 2003 models.
       I looked at the Mitsubishi Lancer wagon over the weekend and was favorably impressed. It looks better to me in person than in the pictures. But my problem is that the cargo area behind the rear seat in the Lancer is so much smaller than the '94 Corolla wagon I currently am driving. I hope the Mazda 6 wagon is bigger. Our local Mazda dealer has no information as yet about when the wagon will be available in the USA, but there is a picture of a wagon in the Mazda 6 booklet available at the dealers. No specs, though.
      If the Mazda 6 wagon really is priced at $26K or more, I might look for a good deal on a Subaru wagon. Or I might look more closely at the Honda CR-V.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Correct. I meant '04 Saab 9-5 Wagon. But the new Lancer wagon must be more on the size of the Mazda3, not the Mazda6. I also don't understand how people can compare a wagon to a mini-SUV in the same price ranges. If maximum storage is what you're looking for, the CRV, Tribute/Escape, and Equinox will probably be the largest in class
    in the 25 to 27K range with options. The mazda6 wagon will probably be slightly larger then the Subaru Legacy/Outback /Saturn L300. The 6 wagon is probably a better marketing match for the Euro sport wagons with the 220HP V6, suspension. 17" low profile tires and styling.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    try the Audi A4 Avant or BMW X3 on for size.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    The 4cyl Turbo A4 MSRP's at 29K and while the X3 will probably be CRV size, I doubt it will be under 30K with the X5's running in the 40K+ range.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Job#1 for the MZ6 wagon is now slated for March 1 2004. Cars should arrive at dealerships around 60-90 days later.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    May or June.

    Sigh.

    It's back to looking at the Mazda3 hatch (they dare not call it a wagon), or perhaps a Subaru Legacy or Outback. Plus the 2005 Outback will be out by then...

    Why on earth has Mazda waited this long? When does the hatch come out? 2008?
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    unacceptable. no thanks mazda.......
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,537
    maybe they want to make sure the rust (er, staining) problem is resolved before they start production?

    Also, since they are coming out so late, do you know if they will arrive as '05s? if not, it will be a real short model year, so you might as well wait a few months until the year rolls over.

    Actually, that would probably mean the sedan and hatch woul have to be '05s also, since it would be odd to have them different. So, guess that means a real short '04 run.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Mazda has a full plate of launches and they are spreading them out....this way each unit gets good coverage and they can closly monitor any launch bugs....the 5 door is scheduled to be on dealers lots in early spring, before the wagon.

    04...rx-8
    04...mpv facelift
    04 MZ3 sedan
    04 MZ3 5-door
    05 tribute
    04 miata speed
    04 mz6 5-door
    04 mz6 wagon
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Funny thing: go to the Mazda 6 Estate (wagon) video on the UK web site and the wagon is shown driving around with California plates (Probably in California). Mazda's loosing out on potential sales. Annoying thing is there's nothing new here. Engine and body style already have been in production for a year. (somewhere in the world)
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    but I can wait that long to check it out. I'm replacing the '94 Corolla wagon because it has a stick shift and original generation airbags, and I have a soon-to-be 16-year-old.
         In my case I am trying to find the right combination of cargo room, fuel efficiency, and and reliability priced at not much more than $20K. So it isn't unreasonable to be looking at wagons and small SUVs. The Toyota RAV4 and the Honda CRV 2WD models test at 28 and 29 mpg highway and 24 and 23 mpg city respectively with automatic transmission. That's comparable to or better than most wagons out there.
         I hope the Mazda 6 wagon is at least as large as my old Corolla wagon. I am skeptical that it will be as big as the Saturn wagon, which offers 33.5 cubic feet of cargo room behind the rear seat and 79.0 cubic feet with the rear seat folded down. But the Mazda 6 wagon supposedly will be about the same overall size -- 186.8 inches long, 56.7 inches high, and 70.1 inches wide compared to the Saturn's 190.4 inches, 57.3 inches, and 68.5 inches.
         I wish I liked the looks of the Saturn better. With the 4 cylinder it gets something like 33 mpg highway and 24 city, and you can get it for under $20K nicely equipped. But there also may be more reliability issues with the Saturn than with the Mazda.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I wish they still made a Corolla wagon. 41 mpg highway, decent acceleration. Very roomy - much more room than the chopped off and uglified Matrix that replaced it.

    I used to have a Corolla wagon, that could fit things my much larger Taurus wagon could not (Taurus was too round and low in the cargo area)

    Still hoping they make a 4-cyl 6 wagon. The v-6 uses more gas than my old Taurus - you would think it could do better with 16 years to improve things.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    I'm sorry to say, but for 20K, you're not looking at anything with AWD or a V6.
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