Mazda has made a commitment on this car to offer manuals on all configurations. That may have changed, but that was my impression when the 6 was first launched.
nedzel, it sounds like perhaps you're interpreting the previously posted schedule to indicate that wagon might appear this summer (2003).
I believe the best info we have now is that the hatch will begin production in Feb 2004 with the wagon starting a month or so after that. Thus, the wagon probably won't be in dealers until late-spring, early-summer 2004, over a year from now. This would be consistent with automaker convention that you can ship the next year's models in March of the previous year. So the hatch and wagon will likely be 2005 model year vehicles. (You very seldom see new vehicles released in the Nov-Feb time period, partly because of the down market in the winter, but also because delaying until spring allows the automaker to jump up a model year.)
And I wouldn't expect we'll get final word on available powertrain options until production is fairly close, although perhaps Mazda will make an earlier committment in principle.
Check this out. I received this e-mail yesterday from Mazda's Customer Assistance. I certainly will not wait this long for the 6 wagon.
"Hello Alan, Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you. First, let me apologize for this delayed response. We've been having technical difficulties with our website, thus we did not receive your original message. We were able to retrieve your e-mail via our report. Thanks for your interest in the upcoming MAZDA6 wagon! The MAZDA6 wagon should be available in first quarter of 2004. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500. Please take a moment of your time to give us your opinion about our e-mail service. Click the link below to complete a brief, online survey".
To add, after speaking with Mazda's Customer Service Representative at above given number, he indicated that the Wagon will approximately cost anywhere from $CDN 2000-3000 above the price set for the Sedan. For this kind of money, at close to $CDN 40,000, I prefer purchasing the Audi A4 Avant or the new Volvo V50. At least with both of these Wagons you are also buying some class. I have been told that the new Volvo V50 will be coming this Fall and it certainly looks like a sweet vehicle. Somewhat similar to the A4 Avant.
They'd better get on the ball as Honda's starting to advertise their Accord wagon in Europe. I'm sure it'll cross the ocean soon.
Talk about letting a great opportunity slip by...
If the wagon and hatch are going to start that much higher than the sedan, they'd better come nicely equipped (like the P5, which is a bit better fitted-out than the top-line sedan). Still, it'd be nice to get a base version, as that's the trim level I like on the sedan. Maybe the extra weight takes away too much from the 2.3L I4?
The only version of the Euro Accord which Honda plans on importing to the US is the Acura TSX, based on the sedan. The US Accord is sedan and coupe only.
Of course plans could change but that's what Honda is saying right now.
I've driven the TSX and it is extremely impressive and a more engaging sports sedan than the Mazda 6. I hope Honda changes its mind about the wagon version.
Honda has had hatchback and wagon versions of its Accord in the European and Japanese markets. It's funny that wagons and hatchbacks have opposite perceptions here vs. there.
markjenn: Yes, his post didn't include the year, so I interpreted that to mean 2003. But everything else that I've read concurs with what you've said about the schedule -- sometime in 2004.
And, unfortunately, you're also right about the Accord wagon. The Accord sold in Europe is different from the Accord sold in the US, and there are no plans to sell either the European Accord wagon or to make a US Accord wagon here in the states. Which is quite a pity.
Mazda is so frustrating, when i here a release date of 1st quarter 2004!!!! That is just plain unacceptable, that will be nearly 3 years from when i first saw the wagon in press release's to hitting the show room floor, i guess it's off to the mitsubishi dealership in the fall time!!!! (i love how that mazda 6 wagon look's though)
i agree that the mitsu is nothing to right home about but it's all we got.
The only full size Japanese wagon offered in all of north america is a subaru legacy(and it's just to heavy, and not very sporty at all)
It's amazing how neglected this segment is, Honda, Toyota, and now apparently Mazda dont want to have anything to do with a practical wagon(no more suv's please, if i wanted a truck i would buy one).
I like the p5 but it's not really a wagon, i think hatch would better describe it. I like the suzuki aerio, but i would like a wagon with a little more hp under the hood!!!
That would be sweet, i have heard rumors of a twin turbo, cranking out around 350bhp!!! That would be amazing, but from what i have heard and seen nothing till 2005!!!!
Sorry for the OT posts everyone. The twin turbo H-6 is probably just smoke. Subaru has that engine in development (think B11S), but it probably won't be rolled out for awhile. The good news is that a turbo Legacy looks very likely for summer of 2004 as a 2005 model. It will likely use a version of the 2.5 liter turbo found in the WRX STi and the turbo Forester and Baja released this year. Output will probably be in the mid 250's for both hp and torque. You sure you can't wait? *evil chuckle*
Some of you may also be interested in sharing (copy/paste) your thoughts, about other upcoming wagons, in our Upcoming Wagons & Crossovers discussion. To kenoka - Have you had a chance to share your news and spy pics in our Subaru Future Models discussion? Thanks for your information! ;-)
And to get back to the subject here: be sure to check out Edmunds' Future Vehicles Section for periodic updates on the 2004 Mazda6 wagon. Since I checked last, seems like they've put new details in the Features & Specs section. Look for Specs in the left hand column there.
Also, you'll now find a direct link to our Future Vehicles 2004 Mazda6 Wagon information in the Helpful Links on the left side of this page. Happy motoring!
My wife was hot for a Volvo wagon. I told her about the 6 wagon, but she just wasn't that interested. Then she drove my 6s sedan to work yesterday. When she got home, she started asking me questions about the 6 wagon.
So depending on option packages (she wants a stick) and availability, we could be a two-6 family next year.
A few of the bicycle teams are using Mazda6 wagons as support vehicles in the Giro D'Italia bicycle race on OLN, the Outdoor Life Network cable station. Hoping to get a good view of one tonight.
Richard (ambull), I think those are actually the race official cars. Seems that Mazda is actually a sponsor as I've seen lots of banners up with their logo as well.
I think they're trying to space out their new vehicle introductions. RX-8 this summer, Mazda3 this fall/winter etc.
What they should've done is launch all 3 simultaneously, but maybe they didn't want to botch the production of the 6 sedan by confusing the plant. Never mind they did this successfully overseas.
***************What they should've done is launch all 3 simultaneously, but maybe they didn't want to botch the production of the 6 sedan by confusing the plant. Never mind they did this successfully overseas. *************
That Mazda6 UK site is great. 360 views of interior and exterior of wagon, exterior shots, interviews w/ designers, etc. Makes me want one even more. I really hope Mazda steps up to the plate and offers this thing with the 220 hp and the 5 speed manual trans.
Does anyone know if the up & coming M6 wagon will have the option of all wheel drive?
I am shopping the auto market for a "stylish" wagon. All wheel drive is a factor that I need to consider since I live in BC and take many snowboarding trips to Whistler. To add there is plenty of rain weather here.
So far, of all of the vehicles that I have test driven to include...
Audi A4 Avant BMW 325ix Volvo XC VW Passat
the Audi Avant seems to be my #1 choice. It is a marvel to look at and the build quality is impeccable. Not sure about its reliability. Consequently, considering that the purchase price also includes 4 years of maintanance plus an overall good warranty plan this should help with some of the continual "gremlins" that Audi's seem to have. IMHO, BMW seemed very lacking and to boot was overpriced. They are also overladen with problems. The Volvo looks very ugly with the two tone plastic treatment up front and the Passat is due for a makeover. For the price that one pays for the Passat wagon it almost would seem "common sense" to walk over the Audi dealer.
I have also test driven the Mazda6 and I have to say that the test drive was a complete joy. This of course has "fueled" my interest in this particular vehicle. Clean lines, taught with an almost unobtrusive look a la A4. Seemed to be very well built and thought out. However the salesman was not completely sure whether or not the wagon would be available with all wheel drive.
If anyone knows anything could you share some info?
The only AWD M6 we know of is the HB that should (hopefully) come to NA. No word on an AWD SportWagon (as Mazda calls the 6 wagon).
Audi interiors are great no doubt about it, but like VW, I'd have a hard time justifying paying a premium price for a car that is in the shop a lot for various things - electrical, coils, brakes... Look at TSBs and recalls for the models you're looking to buy.
I actually don't think it will be offered here in AWD. If memory serves me correctly, I believe that the AWD system is incompatible with the V6 and can only be offered with the 2.3.
That's fine if your going to jack the horsepower up to 280 in an MPS version, but the AWD wagon with 160HP would be an absolute pig. Most Eurpoean reviews have indicated VERY sluggish performance with that combination - with a manual transmission. Most folks in NA would want that combination with the automatic. Even worse.
I hope I'm wrong about the incompatibility issue, but I don't think I am. If I'm right, I boldy predict that we will not be seeing the AWD option in NA, with the possible exception of a MazdaSpeed 6.
My wifes Subaru Outback Ltd. (auto) has 165hp and is a portly 3600lbs. Believe it or not its fine for a family hauler. Lack of power is not a issue. Driving through PA there are times you need to keep it in 3rd when it fully loaded but thats about it. HOWEVER, if you want sporty.........
If Mazda releases a 3400-3500lb AWD wagon with less than 165hp it will die quickly. The new Subaru Legacy GT has been rumored to have between 225 to 280hp from the same 2.5 H4 turbo used in the WRX and STi. If there is going to be a AWD wagon then Mazda should be ready to show up with at least 250hp fully loaded for less than $32k.
For some reason it just did not appeal to me. IMO the Volvo XC looks much better then the V70, albeit as I have said, all of the "excess" cladding work. I am sure that if Volvo was to paint the cladding in the same color as the body color it probably would look much better and surely would generate more sales. Most people I have talked to seem to suggest this as well. Speaking of Volvo's quality this is something that worries me as well. I have an acquaintance who purchased a V70 and he seems to have had several issues with this particular vehicle.
Dinu;
Regarding your post. Yes, you are definitely correct in what you are saying. However you need to remember that most cars you are purchasing nowadays will have some sort of recall. Even top "rated" Mercedes & Bmw's costing $50,000-$60,000 seem to always have recalls. The manufacturers are so busy pumping out vehicles to compete with "other" brands that they just do not have enough time to get all of the bugs ironed out. This is why they issue product recalls. If the auto market was not so competitive than I am sure things would be much different.
Regarding the "premium" price payed for the Audi a4 Avant. Here in BC the cost of the fully loaded Mazda 6 comes to approximately $34,949.22. This includes some options which are available (standard) in the a4 Avant and of course some of these "options" which are unavailable in the M6, as in the case of the Quattro system. Figure in that I should be able to reduce that price by about $1500 if not a "little" more. Then one needs to also consider the maintenance costs over 4 years, which should run at about $5000(CDN). Add these two figures and you get a total of $38449,22. Factor in the resale value of the M6 after 2-3 years of ownership and you stand to lose more money. With the a4 Avant you get great warranty, maintenance for 4 years and the resale value of the vehicle after 3 years of ownership, and you stand to still make your money's worth. At this time here in BC it is "impossible" to even find any Avants. They are still backlogged with 2-3 months waiting period. Everyone seems to want one. By the way the price of the a4 Avant comes to $42,695 minus 2000 (bargaining) dollars. Total I am looking at is $40,000. Of course this does not have the sweet V6 that the M6 comes with. At the same time I am not looking to be in a Grand Prix anytime soon so really ultimate power and speed is not on my consideration list. But with all of this mentioned after driving the M6 I did find it very pleasing. Consequently I was hoping for an all wheel drive variant. But if the replies to this message board stand corrected than my feet will possibly walk me over to the Audi dealer. Too boot their Service seems to be top notch. In another 2-3 months it has been suggested to me that Audi North America will also reduce the interest rate.
Nematode,
Regarding your reply... The up and coming Turbocharged Subaru Legacy has been rumored to cost $25,000 British Pounds. This relates to approximately US$40,000 (market depending). The non-turbos will aim to be in the $30,000-$35,000 range. For that amount of money I'd rather be in a luxury brand as Subaru has not really ventured in this market segment. I suggest that people will tend to be somewhat skeptical (as people always are) to pay this much for a Subaru vehicle. If they can pull it off with their marketing plan than my hat's off to them.
I didn't do a detailed analysis, but I think you like the A4 and are skewing the numbers to rationalize the extra cost.
First, I'd be very surprised if you could spend $5K on routine maintenance on a M6 in four years. Assuming 50K miles, you're basically looking at 6 or so oil changes and a couple inspections. I'd figure $1K tops. The Audi plan will not cover normal wear items like tires, brakes, etc. either.
Second, like you say, Avants are in very high demand, while M6's are in plentiful supply. I doubt this will change with the M6 wagon. So I'd think you'll pay nearly full price for an Avant, and around invoice for the M6.
Finally, I don't think the resale percentage for a four-year old Audi vs. a four-year old Mazda will be dramatically different.
Get the Audi if you want, but there is no way it will be cheaper to own than a M6 wagon.
Yes, you are right. I am leaning towards the a4 Avant. If the future M6 wagon would have been available with an optioned AWD system than my "preference" might have changed.
Regarding the 4 year maintenance plan with the purchase of the Avant. Yes they will not pay for "normal" wear and tear. But I was certain that the salesman mentioned that everything else would be covered. This includes timing belt work, air conditioning service etc...
While doing my research om my future vehicle I also looked at what the Avant offered versus its "other" variants. For what you pay you seem to get lots of included standard features which with many other vehicles it sure will add to its original MSRP. If car competition keeps going, as it is now to introduce year 2004-5 model years, I am sure that at the end of this year one should be able to purchase the Audi with a great financing rate. However this is just my opinion.
I had also looked at the BMW 325 Touring Editions. With the same options which were provided in the a4 the total cost came to a whopping CDN$50,000. Funny thing is that the base model was priced at CDN$44,000. When I added all of the options the price quickly jumped upwards to the 50,000 range.
Another thing that I looked at was the insurance costs. Cheaper for me to insure the a4 Avant than the BMW. Of course this is due to the fact that the a4 is a 4 cyl. versus a 6 in the Bimmer.
So when I consider looking into a close to CDN$40,000 vehicle my thoughts steer me towards a more "luxurious" brand which the a4 certainly fits.
To add, in Vancouver BC, BMW are just your average car. I do not say this to say that the Bimmer is inferior. The fact is that in Vancouver we happen to have a huge Asian population. An Asian poopulation with lots of money. Most of them will not look at the Mazda but instead they choose BMW, Volvo, Audi, Range Rover, Mercedes and so on. You go to a college and all that you see is Bimmers with some Audi's, MB's scattered here & there. Nothing else. So if I were to purchase an Avant I would have no problem selling it. To boot, if these "kids" want something they are willing to pay pretty much top dollar for it whether it is used or not. They live in a society made of money.
That is why I am taking my time to make sure that whatever I buy will ultimately be able to be sold quickly.
there are two words that strike fear into my heart, one is Volkswagen and the other is audi.
Trust me my friend i have owned both and if it's one thing i promised myself i would do, it was to help guide other's away from vw and especially audi.
I dont want to rain on your parade but if your willing to spend all your valuable time in a dealership having your NEW car serviced repeatedly for unacceptable craftsmanship, then get the audi. Your maintenance will be much more on a audi(and more expensive) than on a mazda.
Hi defy - Glad to see you're getting some good feedback here. Here's another discussion that you may find helpful: Help me select a Wagon. Good luck with your decision.
For example the MSRP for their current top of the line US offering is $33k. Yet, the VDC sells in the $29k range and even there its not flying off lots. They also had the version below that (LL Bean Edition) on lots for $30k. Its now selling for just about $27k. Both are nice but not different enough. Different would be the regular Impreza -vs- the WRX.
Its not that people will not pay $40k for a Subaru.....its they will not pay $40k for a Subaru unless there is a really good reason. Like, for example, a nice even 300hp in the new Legacy GT. I believe that the new Legacy non-turbos will sell for no more than $23-24k for a well equipped wagon. A fully loaded GT with the hot engine should tap out at $34-35k US and thats only if its near the 280hp number thats been thrown around. Subaru can price it at $40k but I dont think they will be able to get it. The Infiniti FX35 and 45 are near that range and so is the RX300 and the new offering from Lexus that looks just like the FX45. Also dont forget about he Volvo V70 R Wagon well under $40k range with 300hp. For Subaru to compete well there they should show up with their 350hp twin-turbo H6 priced at around $40k.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this comparison? Specifically performance expectations of M6 wagon compared to existing WRX wagon. I'm sure the WRX is not worth comparing in terms of interior fit and finish, leg room, storage capacity, etc but it seems like it would be a better performer then the M6. Everyone seems to be comparing the M6 to the bigger outback and volvo. If I'm looking for the wagon that is the most "fun" to drive, does the M6 compare to the WRX?
I am shopping for a fun-to-drive wagon too. If the 6 wagon were available today, it would be my first choice. Since it is not I have considered the WRX wagon, protege5 and Matrix XRS.
I think the WRX will outperform the 6 wagon in handling and acceleration at the track, but I don't think it will be very evident in daily driving.
BTW, I was surprised to see Motortrend found the XRS to be a better handler than the WRX wagon even with aftermarket tires and wheels.
The WRX is in a smaller size class and is powered by a 2.0L 4-cyl turbo. Most of us who are interested in a sporty M6 wagon are going to be getting the (at minimum, perhaps more) 220-hp 3.0L V6. So the two vehicles are not likely to be very similar in the same way that a M6 sedan is nothing like a WRX sedan.
If you are interested in the most sporty wagon, then it is hard to argue with the WRX and it's available right now. But if you want a larger, quieter, smoother, easier-to-drive wagon that is still fairly sporty, the M6 wagon may be worth waiting for, although I'm still worried that they'll nix the manual tranny in the wagon version, citing lack of demand, and only have the stick in the hatchback.
Comments
I believe the best info we have now is that the hatch will begin production in Feb 2004 with the wagon starting a month or so after that. Thus, the wagon probably won't be in dealers until late-spring, early-summer 2004, over a year from now. This would be consistent with automaker convention that you can ship the next year's models in March of the previous year. So the hatch and wagon will likely be 2005 model year vehicles. (You very seldom see new vehicles released in the Nov-Feb time period, partly because of the down market in the winter, but also because delaying until spring allows the automaker to jump up a model year.)
And I wouldn't expect we'll get final word on available powertrain options until production is fairly close, although perhaps Mazda will make an earlier committment in principle.
- Mark
Check this out. I received this e-mail yesterday from Mazda's Customer Assistance. I certainly will not wait this long for the 6 wagon.
"Hello Alan,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.
First, let me apologize for this delayed response. We've been having
technical difficulties with our website, thus we did not receive your
original message. We were able to retrieve your e-mail via our report.
Thanks for your interest in the upcoming MAZDA6 wagon! The MAZDA6 wagon should be available in first quarter of 2004.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also
contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.
Please take a moment of your time to give us your opinion about our
e-mail service. Click the link below to complete a brief, online
survey".
To add, after speaking with Mazda's Customer Service Representative at above given number, he indicated that the Wagon will approximately cost anywhere from $CDN 2000-3000 above the price set for the Sedan. For this kind of money, at close to $CDN 40,000, I prefer purchasing the Audi A4 Avant or the new Volvo V50. At least with both of these Wagons you are also buying some class. I have been told that the new Volvo V50 will be coming this Fall and it certainly looks like a sweet vehicle. Somewhat similar to the A4 Avant.
Alan
Alan
I'm just wondering, is the wagon heavier than the sedan?
Does anyone have the trims' weight (sedan, HB, wagon) for the M6? Skipdap g #s would be nice too.
Dinu
Talk about letting a great opportunity slip by...
If the wagon and hatch are going to start that much higher than the sedan, they'd better come nicely equipped (like the P5, which is a bit better fitted-out than the top-line sedan). Still, it'd be nice to get a base version, as that's the trim level I like on the sedan. Maybe the extra weight takes away too much from the 2.3L I4?
Of course plans could change but that's what Honda is saying right now.
I've driven the TSX and it is extremely impressive and a more engaging sports sedan than the Mazda 6. I hope Honda changes its mind about the wagon version.
- Mark
And, unfortunately, you're also right about the Accord wagon. The Accord sold in Europe is different from the Accord sold in the US, and there are no plans to sell either the European Accord wagon or to make a US Accord wagon here in the states. Which is quite a pity.
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003- /newyork/04.mitsu.lancersportback/04.mitsu.lancersportback.r34.50- 0.jpg
Give me the M3 -I can wait.
Dinu
The only full size Japanese wagon offered in all of north america is a subaru legacy(and it's just to heavy, and not very sporty at all)
It's amazing how neglected this segment is, Honda, Toyota, and now apparently Mazda dont want to have anything to do with a practical wagon(no more suv's please, if i wanted a truck i would buy one).
I like the p5 but it's not really a wagon, i think hatch would better describe it. I like the suzuki aerio, but i would like a wagon with a little more hp under the hood!!!
You can see some spy pics at:
http://www.apexjapan.com
And to get back to the subject here: be sure to check out Edmunds' Future Vehicles Section for periodic updates on the 2004 Mazda6 wagon. Since I checked last, seems like they've put new details in the Features & Specs section. Look for Specs in the left hand column there.
Also, you'll now find a direct link to our Future Vehicles 2004 Mazda6 Wagon information in the Helpful Links on the left side of this page. Happy motoring!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
My wife was hot for a Volvo wagon. I told her about the 6 wagon, but she just wasn't that interested. Then she drove my 6s sedan to work yesterday. When she got home, she started asking me questions about the 6 wagon.
So depending on option packages (she wants a stick) and availability, we could be a two-6 family next year.
I think those are actually the race official cars. Seems that Mazda is actually a sponsor as I've seen lots of banners up with their logo as well.
Great race, eh?
-Ian
What they should've done is launch all 3 simultaneously, but maybe they didn't want to botch the production of the 6 sedan by confusing the plant. Never mind they did this successfully overseas.
***************What they should've done is launch all 3 simultaneously, but maybe they didn't want to botch the production of the 6 sedan by confusing the plant. Never mind they did this successfully overseas. *************
They successfully confused the plant overseas?
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Look around 5.30-6.00PM
Dinu
http://www.fasterfords.com/mazda/pictures/Mazda6_wagon1.jpg
Official Pics:
http://www.mazda6.co.uk/upclose/gallery/wagon.asp?title=Mazda6+Es- tate
Dinu
2nd paragraph from end of story.
- Mark
Does anyone know if the up & coming M6 wagon will have the option of all wheel drive?
I am shopping the auto market for a "stylish" wagon. All wheel drive is a factor that I need to consider since I live in BC and take many snowboarding trips to Whistler. To add there is plenty of rain weather here.
So far, of all of the vehicles that I have test driven to include...
Audi A4 Avant
BMW 325ix
Volvo XC
VW Passat
the Audi Avant seems to be my #1 choice. It is a marvel to look at and the build quality is impeccable. Not sure about its reliability. Consequently, considering that the purchase price also includes 4 years of maintanance plus an overall good warranty plan this should help with some of the continual "gremlins" that Audi's seem to have. IMHO, BMW seemed very lacking and to boot was overpriced. They are also overladen with problems. The Volvo looks very ugly with the two tone plastic treatment up front and the Passat is due for a makeover. For the price that one pays for the Passat wagon it almost would seem "common sense" to walk over the Audi dealer.
I have also test driven the Mazda6 and I have to say that the test drive was a complete joy. This of course has "fueled" my interest in this particular vehicle. Clean lines, taught with an almost unobtrusive look a la A4. Seemed to be very well built and thought out. However the salesman was not completely sure whether or not the wagon would be available with all wheel drive.
If anyone knows anything could you share some info?
Thank you
Alan
Audi interiors are great no doubt about it, but like VW, I'd have a hard time justifying paying a premium price for a car that is in the shop a lot for various things - electrical, coils, brakes... Look at TSBs and recalls for the models you're looking to buy.
http://www.alldata.com/recalls/index.html
http://nhtsa.org/
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/recalls/search_e.asp
Dinu
That's fine if your going to jack the horsepower up to 280 in an MPS version, but the AWD wagon with 160HP would be an absolute pig. Most Eurpoean reviews have indicated VERY sluggish performance with that combination - with a manual transmission. Most folks in NA would want that combination with the automatic. Even worse.
I hope I'm wrong about the incompatibility issue, but I don't think I am. If I'm right, I boldy predict that we will not be seeing the AWD option in NA, with the possible exception of a MazdaSpeed 6.
3000lbs needs 200hp/200ft/lb
3500lbs needs 250hp/250ft/lb
4000lbs needs 300hp/300ft/lb
Its not even close.
If Mazda releases a 3400-3500lb AWD wagon with less than 165hp it will die quickly. The new Subaru Legacy GT has been rumored to have between 225 to 280hp from the same 2.5 H4 turbo used in the WRX and STi. If there is going to be a AWD wagon then Mazda should be ready to show up with at least 250hp fully loaded for less than $32k.
To add, why didn't I look into the V70?
For some reason it just did not appeal to me. IMO the Volvo XC looks much better then the V70, albeit as I have said, all of the "excess" cladding work. I am sure that if Volvo was to paint the cladding in the same color as the body color it probably would look much better and surely would generate more sales. Most people I have talked to seem to suggest this as well. Speaking of Volvo's quality this is something that worries me as well. I have an acquaintance who purchased a V70 and he seems to have had several issues with this particular vehicle.
Dinu;
Regarding your post. Yes, you are definitely correct in what you are saying. However you need to remember that most cars you are purchasing nowadays will have some sort of recall. Even top "rated" Mercedes & Bmw's costing $50,000-$60,000 seem to always have recalls. The manufacturers are so busy pumping out vehicles to compete with "other" brands that they just do not have enough time to get all of the bugs ironed out. This is why they issue product recalls. If the auto market was not so competitive than I am sure things would be much different.
Regarding the "premium" price payed for the Audi a4 Avant. Here in BC the cost of the fully loaded Mazda 6 comes to approximately $34,949.22. This includes some options which are available (standard) in the a4 Avant and of course some of these "options" which are unavailable in the M6, as in the case of the Quattro system. Figure in that I should be able to reduce that price by about $1500 if not a "little" more. Then one needs to also consider the maintenance costs over 4 years, which should run at about $5000(CDN). Add these two figures and you get a total of $38449,22. Factor in the resale value of the M6 after 2-3 years of ownership and you stand to lose more money. With the a4 Avant you get great warranty, maintenance for 4 years and the resale value of the vehicle after 3 years of ownership, and you stand to still make your money's worth. At this time here in BC it is "impossible" to even find any Avants. They are still backlogged with 2-3 months waiting period. Everyone seems to want one. By the way the price of the a4 Avant comes to $42,695 minus 2000 (bargaining) dollars. Total I am looking at is $40,000. Of course this does not have the sweet V6 that the M6 comes with. At the same time I am not looking to be in a Grand Prix anytime soon so really ultimate power and speed is not on my consideration list. But with all of this mentioned after driving the M6 I did find it very pleasing. Consequently I was hoping for an all wheel drive variant. But if the replies to this message board stand corrected than my feet will possibly walk me over to the Audi dealer. Too boot their Service seems to be top notch. In another 2-3 months it has been suggested to me that Audi North America will also reduce the interest rate.
Nematode,
Regarding your reply...
The up and coming Turbocharged Subaru Legacy has been rumored to cost $25,000 British Pounds. This relates to approximately US$40,000 (market depending). The non-turbos will aim to be in the $30,000-$35,000 range. For that amount of money I'd rather be in a luxury brand as Subaru has not really ventured in this market segment. I suggest that people will tend to be somewhat skeptical (as people always are) to pay this much for a Subaru vehicle. If they can pull it off with their marketing plan than my hat's off to them.
Alan
First, I'd be very surprised if you could spend $5K on routine maintenance on a M6 in four years. Assuming 50K miles, you're basically looking at 6 or so oil changes and a couple inspections. I'd figure $1K tops. The Audi plan will not cover normal wear items like tires, brakes, etc. either.
Second, like you say, Avants are in very high demand, while M6's are in plentiful supply. I doubt this will change with the M6 wagon. So I'd think you'll pay nearly full price for an Avant, and around invoice for the M6.
Finally, I don't think the resale percentage for a four-year old Audi vs. a four-year old Mazda will be dramatically different.
Get the Audi if you want, but there is no way it will be cheaper to own than a M6 wagon.
- Mark
Mark;
Yes, you are right. I am leaning towards the a4 Avant. If the future M6 wagon would have been available with an optioned AWD system than my "preference" might have changed.
Regarding the 4 year maintenance plan with the purchase of the Avant. Yes they will not pay for "normal" wear and tear. But I was certain that the salesman mentioned that everything else would be covered. This includes timing belt work, air conditioning service etc...
While doing my research om my future vehicle I also looked at what the Avant offered versus its "other" variants. For what you pay you seem to get lots of included standard features which with many other vehicles it sure will add to its original MSRP. If car competition keeps going, as it is now to introduce year 2004-5 model years, I am sure that at the end of this year one should be able to purchase the Audi with a great financing rate. However this is just my opinion.
I had also looked at the BMW 325 Touring Editions. With the same options which were provided in the a4 the total cost came to a whopping CDN$50,000. Funny thing is that the base model was priced at CDN$44,000. When I added all of the options the price quickly jumped upwards to the 50,000 range.
Another thing that I looked at was the insurance costs. Cheaper for me to insure the a4 Avant than the BMW. Of course this is due to the fact that the a4 is a 4 cyl. versus a 6 in the Bimmer.
So when I consider looking into a close to CDN$40,000 vehicle my thoughts steer me towards a more "luxurious" brand which the a4 certainly fits.
To add, in Vancouver BC, BMW are just your average car. I do not say this to say that the Bimmer is inferior. The fact is that in Vancouver we happen to have a huge Asian population. An Asian poopulation with lots of money. Most of them will not look at the Mazda but instead they choose BMW, Volvo, Audi, Range Rover, Mercedes and so on. You go to a college and all that you see is Bimmers with some Audi's, MB's scattered here & there. Nothing else. So if I were to purchase an Avant I would have no problem selling it. To boot, if these "kids" want something they are willing to pay pretty much top dollar for it whether it is used or not. They live in a society made of money.
That is why I am taking my time to make sure that whatever I buy will ultimately be able to be sold quickly.
A.
Trust me my friend i have owned both and if it's one thing i promised myself i would do, it was to help guide other's away from vw and especially audi.
I dont want to rain on your parade but if your willing to spend all your valuable time in a dealership having your NEW car serviced repeatedly for unacceptable craftsmanship, then get the audi. Your maintenance will be much more on a audi(and more expensive) than on a mazda.
here are some Intresting links,
http://www.myvwlemon.com/
and this one is quite funny, but very painful because i feel really feel bad for the guy,
http://www.myaudittsucks.com/
And now, back to the subject of the Mazda6 Wagon!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Its not that people will not pay $40k for a Subaru.....its they will not pay $40k for a Subaru unless there is a really good reason. Like, for example, a nice even 300hp in the new Legacy GT. I believe that the new Legacy non-turbos will sell for no more than $23-24k for a well equipped wagon. A fully loaded GT with the hot engine should tap out at $34-35k US and thats only if its near the 280hp number thats been thrown around. Subaru can price it at $40k but I dont think they will be able to get it. The Infiniti FX35 and 45 are near that range and so is the RX300 and the new offering from Lexus that looks just like the FX45. Also dont forget about he Volvo V70 R Wagon well under $40k range with 300hp. For Subaru to compete well there they should show up with their 350hp twin-turbo H6 priced at around $40k.
Dinu
Dinu
I am shopping for a fun-to-drive wagon too. If the 6 wagon were available today, it would be my first choice. Since it is not I have considered the WRX wagon, protege5 and Matrix XRS.
I think the WRX will outperform the 6 wagon in handling and acceleration at the track, but I don't think it will be very evident in daily driving.
BTW, I was surprised to see Motortrend found the XRS to be a better handler than the WRX wagon even with aftermarket tires and wheels.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If you are interested in the most sporty wagon, then it is hard to argue with the WRX and it's available right now. But if you want a larger, quieter, smoother, easier-to-drive wagon that is still fairly sporty, the M6 wagon may be worth waiting for, although I'm still worried that they'll nix the manual tranny in the wagon version, citing lack of demand, and only have the stick in the hatchback.
- Mark