By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
This is my current situation, not that I have the funds to do anything to remedy it anyway.
If I had been able to buy last year, I would be driving a RSX type S. In the meantime of waiting, the Altima entered my radar screen, followed by the Matrix and most recently the WRX wagon. Now this Mazda 6 wagon is in the competition as well.
Having lived in europe for more than half of my driving career, my tastes are heavily influenced by the market there. I would love to have an Alfa Romeo 156 sportwagon, Audi A4 avant, Volvo v40 with a real transmission, even a Fiat Marea wagon would suit me. Passat is nice but like others here I don't trust it's reliability. We used to joke that his Passat was really a "passiert" (happened) as in "was ist dem Passat jetzt passiert?" (what happened to the Passat now?)
I just hope that Mazda doesn't goof the wagon when they do bring it by making the manny tranny a factory order item. I don't want to order a car. I want to buy a car and drive away the same day.
When I was out drooling over the Altima SEs, there was only one dealer (out of three) that had one (just one) with a manual transmission. Slushboxes everywhere.
Good to hear some German here - been a while since I had a chance to practice my high school German speaking skills, but should that sentence be "Was ist MIT dem passat jetzt passiert?"? He He - I imagine colloquially you can just leave out the 'mit'.
Mazda has made it clear they will make Auto and 5 speed available across the board (sedan, wagon and hatchback) - but you're right, given the average American's morbid fear of (or dislike of - given how many 'more important things' they'd rather be doing in a car) manual trannys, Mazda may option it differently when it gets here. Hopefully not, though!
Good to hear about the availability of the manual transmission. Won't consider a car without one.
Hadn't been keeping up on the Euro scene as much lately since I just get irritated that I can't have those cars. A few years back I was seriously looking at trying to bring over an Alfa GTV (gee tee vew -not gee tee vee - mmkay?) and dealing with the lack of parts and the conversion stuff.
Heard Alfa was gonna reenter the US market in 04, but I am not holding my breath.
The Mazda6 should make a very nice ersatz euromobile for me.
And I've heard that each separate body style/engine/tranny option requires a separate certification for emissions, fuel, and safety standards and it runs over $100K per. So I'm skeptical that Mazda will certify all the combos of three body styles X two engines X two trannys - 12 combos in all. This many options also makes it harder for dealers to keep inventory. My guess: no 4-cyl in the wagon or 5-door, no manual for the wagon. I hope I'm wrong.
- Mark
- Mark
This is done specifically so that different body styles do not have to be retested, but some manufactures use it as a loophole, and use the same numbers for different nameplates. Examples: BMW 530i and 330ci convertable are both 24.3396 for their combined average - coincidence? Subaru Legacy, Impreza and Forestor are all 27.2821; Buick Le Sabre, Park Avenue, and Pontiac Bonneville are all 26.7043.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml
Go to the above site and download the 2002 datafile to see which cars use the same numbers! Sort by overall mileage to see which numbers are the same.
Crash testing may be different.
But I don't have hard information - just what some so-called experts have said on the internet, that any substantial change if body/engine/tranny requires a separate test. And I know the mfgs have steadfastly said that a big reason they don't bring in manual transmissions in very many models is because of the extra cost of testing.
Again, I hope I'm wrong. Personally, I want the V6, but I can certainly understand the appeal of the four to many. And if the car doesn't have the manual, I won't even consider it. I've told Mazda this from their web site.
- Mark
Certifying an 2003 Accord V6 sedan with a 5-sp manual is different from certifying a Mazda6 Wagon or 5-door 4-cyl when the 4-door has already been certified.
"Just because two cars have the same numbers isn't much of an indication that they used the same EPA testing. The numbers are so coarse, if you have hundreds of cars being tested all with city mileage between 16 and 23, then there are going to be a lot of coincidental matches for both numbers."
What? Read dudleyr's post again. We're talking about the same EPA number for two different models down to four decimal places. This is definitely not "coarse".
This is the Alfa Romeo Sportwagen GTA, I can see some resemblence in the Mazda6 front.
I am not a statistician, but I would venture to say that the odds of the exact same car getting the same results twice are very very small. The chances of three different cars (that are different sizes) getting the same number to 4 decimal places on two different tests would have to be very much less likely than winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning the same day.
If I can find it again, I will post a link to the EPA testing procedures.
But by the same token, looking at the BMW 3- and 5-series sedans, I see 2 replications of numbers over 16 different models, meaning that it appears that to certify the 16 3- and 5-series sedam models, it took 14 tests.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know precisely how they slice and dice car models for these tests, but I'll stand on the jist of my original statement: it is unlikely we'll get all all 12 combos of possible Mazda 6's and certification and testing costs will be one reason why.
- Mark
I came accross this when I was comparing the 325it (wagon) to the 325i (sedan). I wondered why the EPA numbers were different, and looked up the tranny data. The 325it has a 3.46 final drive (and turns 2805 rpm @ 60 mph) while the 325i has a 3.15 final drive (and turns 2554 rpm @ 60 mph), so the wagon has a lower EPA highway number(as it was tested seperatly because of different transmission), and for good reason since the engine is turning faster.
The EPA "loophole" only works if the engine and transmission (including final drive ratio) are identical.
Also remember that Mazdas parent company (Ford) has already learned the lesson of not having a 5-speed on the Focus wagon. This vehicle had no 5-speed its first year, and after many complaints (on this very board even) they offered a 5-speed as a no cost option the next year - still more complaints, so now it is a $715 (if memory serves) deduct. If the Focus were as reliable as a Mazda I would probably be very serious about getting one.
Back to the original subject. If Mazda does not change the tranny from car to car (and I doubt they would since they all have the same mission of being drivers cars) they will only need 4 tests for all 12 versions of the cars.
V6 auto and manual, and 4 cyl auto and manual.
(Raw highway mpg X 0.78??) (round to whole number)= Official EPA Highway Rating
Some raw data are suspiciously only rounded to one decimal place.
Example:
2002 VW Jetta Sedan 1.9L TDI with 5-sp:
46.5427/62.7912 (42/49)
2002 VW Jetta Wagon 1.9L TDI with 5-sp:
46.7/64 (42/50)
I doubt they have different manual transmissions and/or final drive ratios.
I heard someone mentioned the Wagon had better aerodynamics. Fine, but then:
2002 VW Jetta Sedan 2.0L with 4-sp auto:
25.1767/37.2911 (23/29)
2002 VW Jetta Wagon 2.0L with 4-sp auto:
24.8059/36.9041 (22/29)
Now the sedan has better gas mileage ratings.
here is a link to the testing procedures I mentioned in a previous post.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/fefact01.pdf
So I don't get in trouble for being off topic, I will add that I really do think that Mazda will bring the wagon over (with manual tranny). It would help to further differentiate it from Honda and Toyota, both of whom do not have a single wagon (I know the Matrix is wagon-like, but a real wagon is not 7 inches shorter than the sedan).
Through a reference in another board (regarding a GM vehicle), I've examined a Spanish web site which turns out to have the best (and particularly HIGHEST RESOLUTION) images of the 6 that I've been able to find on the net. Most are 1024x768 (approx.).
In addition to seeing some familiar photos (but at higher resolution, which is great for examining details of the dashboard, for example), there are also some shots I'd never seen elsewhere (like a cutaway side shot of the wagon interior).
SO, exterior photos (clickable to enlarge) are at:
http://www.km77.com/marcas/mazda/6_02/galeria.asp
AND interior photos (ditto) are at:
http://www.km77.com/marcas/mazda/6_02/galeria2.asp
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Read other websites and reviews of XM/Sirius. Listen to them online.
They don't repeat songs, play great music, have less/no ads, sound way better than FM, cost almost nothing - what's not to like?
I've had XM in my Protege for 3+ months now, and certainly won't live without it in any future car I own! I rarely ever switch to my own CDs any more, and a month has elapsed since I swapped out the 6 CDs currently in ym changer! Pity Mazda decided to go with Sirius, though - I personally prefer XM's selection of channels, music, DJs as well as the better sound quality.
http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/19/technology/techinvestor/hellweg/index.htm
http://www.topgear.beeb.com/content/latest/news/articles/2002/09/03/index.html
That said, my first car was a 1985 626 Hatch 2.0. The car lasted through high-school and college before I sold it with 190k miles on the clock (some plasticky broken bits on the interior and lots of rattles but otherwise sound - and I drove that thing HARD). I LOVE the new hatch. LOVE IT. It looks incredible and the utility of a hatch is almost on par w/ a wagon and definately better than the sedan (if rear seats fold forward).
Has anyone heard definitive news on the hatch arriving stateside?
I can wait. But boy oh boy it's gonna be a looong wait. The upshot is this: maybe the initial bugs will get worked out of it. And if the hatch is a "specialty - or lower-volume - vehicle for the USA", maybe Mazda will send ones over that are built in Japan.
I can only hope. Sorry Ford - but your products have been in my family for decades and they've been mostly crap.
Maka
Same will be true for this one, and any other.
IMO, it is just another example of OEM ignorance and arrogance. As long as the stereo is well thought out and sounds good, it doesn't much matter to 95% of the buying public...but for the tweekers, bass heads, and audiophiles out there. A good car system doesn't start with OEM.
Aftermarket will always find a work around, or else they risk being out of business.
my two cents.
I've recently become a homeowner and I'm getting a little tired of throwing all of my Lowes and Home Depot purchases in the trunk - or worse - on top of the leather seats of my 2001 Accord Coupe. I need a utility-themed vehicle but I can't stand trucks! I've eyed the Protege5, but it's just too small and underpowered. Affordable, yes, but I'm afraid I'd outgrow it quickly. And it's a Protege...a bit of a step down from an Accord.
The Mazda 6 Wagon looks rather appealing: an affordable midsize wagon that doesn't look like a family car. And if the talk about its handling prowess is true, wow, we've got a winner. Why oh why must it be built at the Ford plant in Flat Rock, MI, though? I hate Fords. I had a Contour and it was a REAL POS. It wasn't built in Flat Rock but the platform-sharing Cougar was and that car has a shaky history like the Contour. Aye. It shouldn't matter that Ford owns part of Mazda. The Mazda 6 should be built at a Mazda plant (US or Japan...doesn't matter) using non-UAW labor, like Honda and Toyota.
I chided Honda for not releasing a V6 5spd Accord but frankly, I'm not so sure I'd get a V6 5spd Mazda 6. While my 148hp 5spd Accord could use a little more pep, I like getting 26mpg around town and remember my Contour V6 5spd days when 19mpg was the usual. A V6 adds weight to the front-end, too, whereas a lighter 4-banger is more tossable. Hmmm, but I'd be giving up manual control of 200+ lb-ft of torque. Oh, the torment!
All-in-all, I think 5-6 lb-ft of torque/100lbs of mass is sufficient. I think the 165 lb-ft of torque of the I4 (in a 3000lb vehicle) should be alright by the Mazda6.
This of course means that my Pro is a little underpowered, which I think it is at 107 lb-ft of torque for its 2500lbs of mass. I think the 135 lb-ft of torque supplied by its current 2.0 is fine. Imagine how it'd do with the 2.3 I4 of the 6i?
Torque/100lbs:
Mazda 6i 155/3243 = 4.8/100lbs
Mazda 6s 192/3311 = 5.8/100lbs
BMW 325i 175/3219 = 5.4/100lbs
BMW 330i 214/3285 = 6.5/100lbs
Note the the Mazda 6s is only 92lbs heavier than the 325 and 26lbs more than the 330i. Actually, I think a 3.0L engine is just about right for a car of this size and weight. If you've driven the Duratec 2.5L (found in the Contour SVT) or 3.0L engines, you know that they both have a very nice usable power band. I'll probably opt for the 3.0L, even though I know that this means I'll have to order one to get it with the manual trans.
One worry about the 6 wagon, though, based on the pix, might be rear visibility. The side sheetmetal rises fairly steeply toward the back, which looks sporty but makes the rear windows somewhat small, especially compared with the Passat's. You can't really tell in the pic at the top of this thread because of the angle, but it's very evident in the pics on that Spanish Web site someone linked to above.
Also, I see on the MazdaUSA.com Web site that the sedan is now "Coming in December" ... is the wagon still planned for summer?
Personally, I'm waiting for the 5-door (to replace a 1990 Camry) and I hate the wait. I'm looking forward to test driving a sedan when they come out.
I just cannot wait 'til June '03 for Mazda6 Wagon to be available!
Note that Mazda has tried to make the hatch look exactly like the sedan. I want a hatch, and I wish I didn't have to wait a year to get it.
Then again, except for a Ford Focus or VW Golf, what other hatch is still out there? And I need more than a subcompact.
Virtually everybody that makes cars offers a sedan. Hatches and wagons are few and far between. For about the past 20 years, the largest US made wagaon has been the Taurus/Sable! And hatches nearly completely disappeared.
That's the reason why so many of us are so excited to see Mazda doing good stuff, like the Protege5 and the Mazda6 wagons and hatches.
Bring 'em on! Best of all, bring us CHOICES!
Why in the hell would ANYONE ever buy an suv, it's absolutely sick how much gas they guzzle, on top of that you are totally unconnected from the road, and let's not forget how easy it is to flip those sucker's going into a turn!!!
Seem's the rest of the world doesn't like them except our North American market, and as long as we do, car maker's will keep giving us crummy models to choose from when you compare to what is offered overseas!!!
There i feel alot better know, i too cannot wait for an affordable sporty roomy wagon to come out, and it look's like mazda has hit the nail on the head with this one!!!!
Ever owned a boat, toy hauler, race vehicle, etc.?
Just because it's not for you, doesn't mean that it's not the ideal choice for another. True, many are grocery haulers, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Bash SUVs all you want, but they tow well and most have a off-road capability that many of us occasinally use. No we don't use it every day. Maybe we'll only use it a few times in the life of the vehicle, but those few times are critical. And many SUV owners tow a fair amount: boats, dirt bikes, travel trailers, utility trailers, what-have-you.
I'm in the market for a small wagon for our family's 2nd car, but my ML320 with 5K towing capacity is incredibly versatile and it does stuff every week that would be impossible in a small wagon or even a CR-V type vehicle.
- Mark