Mazda6 Wagon

johnclineii

And in that regard, a silly question!

What is the towing capacity of the new 6?

(HA HA HA)

Then again, someone may be interested!

maltb

you laugh, but I intend to put a hitch on the back of one so that I can haul my dirt bike on a small trailer or put a hitch mount bike rack on there. I'm sure a hitch will only be good for 1000lbs but it is way more than I need.

Yes, people do odd things with cars but I'm tired of driving a truck just so I can haul my dirt bike.

adu1

The supposedly forthcoming Acura TSX (aka Euro Accord) has been mentioned previously in Edmunds' forums as a possible competitor for the Mazda6. If the TSX does come to market, I wonder if Acura will also bring over the new station wagon version of the Euro Accord. See photos at: http://www.km77.com/marcas/honda/accord_03/tourer/texto.asp

mazdafun

m9431

I own a '02 Accord LX sedan and an '02 VW Golf TDi--the hatch is an excellent idea--very practical and stylish--I love it. Can't rally understand why they went away for so many years... SUV's are most likely influencing a comeback.

Mazda--get the '6' here as a hatch and a wagon, soon, make it reliable and reasonably priced, and I'll give up my new Honda Accord pronto! Mazda seems to do a good job at fillng market niches, and the market needs a fun, reasonably priced quality sedan, wagon and hatch. With boring Camrys and Accords, Mazda could really clean up... VW is doing a fine job although they are a bit pricey.

yugoboy

" VW is doing a fine job although they are a bit pricey."

Let's not forget about how totally unreliable vw's are also, I dont know about you but having to bring in a NEW car 3 to 4 times a month for servicing kind of defeat's the purpose of buying a new car!!!!! But i will give vw some credit, their commercial's are entertaining!!

http://www.myvwlemon.com/

check out all the horror stories!!!

beachnut

... both of them, in the last two years. Traded my '99 on the MPV, and just bought a '94 Pro (temporary car, long story). My '00 Accord is for sale now ... waiting patiently for the hatch or wagon.

johnclineii

This one has a piece of news many of us will not like, if true. The hatch and wagon (with available all wheel drive) are due in a year OR SO. Sigh.

Otherwise a great article:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0210/18/b01-615423.htm

casecom2

actually, the exact quote is "over the next year or so." Looks like they deliberately left it vague because they weren't sure ... I think you may be reading too much into it.

interesting article tho.

cb70

   : The plant will build 90,000 Mazda6 sedans next year. Mazda will add a five-door hatchback version and station wagon with available all-wheel drive over the next year or so.

Looks like we may get the chance at an AWD Mazda 6. Maybe the Outback finally has a competitor in the same price range?

adu1

(Please note that I had to insert a space in the URL after "EVENT=" to get around Edmunds' 115-character limit. Just remove that space when you copy and paste to your browser.)

http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DEST=/content/jsp/individualRoadTest.jsp&EVENT= 1010&MAKE=Mazda:C6&MODEL=6:C1&roadTestNumber=02.html

yugoboy

Picked up car and driver's preview for 2003 of the rack today, and on it's tidbit for the mazda6 it said that the wagon and hatch will not be available to the north american market at all, hopefully they are wrong!!!!!

maltb

They are VERY wrong!

casecom2

Called a local Mazda dealership today and asked a saleswoman what she knew about availability for the Mazda 6 wagon. She said they were hoping to have it in fall 2003 but just to be safe they're telling people 14 months ... that's January 2004 folks.

Bummer.

mazda6s

Some of the most unreliable information you can get is from dealerships.

johnclineii

...or from Internet message boards!

The problem is some of the most accurate information comes from the same places. Telling which is which is difficult at best!

carspy01

The German AutoBild has a report in their current weekly issue (German only). To see pictures, click on "zur Galerie", and click the pictures.
The AWD 6Wagon will have the 2.3l engine we already know. Price including sales tax (Germany = 16%) around 30,000 Euros which should be around $26K "naked". Have fun.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U30952A82

boxfan

4cars (UK) has a review. They find it underpowered--a combination of the 2.3l engine and the 4-speed automatic transmission. I would guess if they bring a similar AWD model to North America it'll be with the 6-cyl engine that's in the 6s, so the review may not be too relevant for us. Looks nice, though.

http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=220&storyid=1786

capitano

if they are offering it in Europe with the auto, then there is little to no hope we can get one with a manny tranny over here.

groovypippin

They do offer the M6 wagon with manual transmission in Europe. The vehicle that they tested happened to be an automatic.

wrxsoon1

we're talking about the AWD 6 Wagon. The article I read stated that the AWD was only available with the 4 cylinder engine and Auto transmission. Bummer. This thing would be great if they offered an AWD 6 cylinder with manual.

Edit: ooooops, my bad, I guess it does have the 6 cylinder engine. I guess I thought it was the 4 because of how they said it was so gutless. The article does clearly state that the AWD is ONLY availble with the auto tranny.

-Ian

boxfan

I don't know which article you're talking about, but the 4car review that I posted the link for above is talking about the "Sport4" wagon with AWD and a "2.3-litre petrol engine (162 bhp)" which certainly sounds like the 4-cyl engine that's in the 6 in North America.

Yes, the Mazda6 front-wheel drive wagon is available with manual transmission in Europe (let's hope it will be here, too), but apparently not the AWD version. My guess is for North America, they'll have AWD only in a 6-cyl, automatic version, which is what VW does with the Passat.

carspy01

They both (Germany & UK) tested the 2.3l 4-cylinder! The 3l V6 was - as correctly noted - not available at the time of test. I assume for now, that Northamerica will get the AWD-version in spring 2004 as a '05-model.

dudleyr

Actually you can get a Passat W8 with AWD and a manual tranny. Yes it is expensive!

boxfan

I was thinking about the wagon, which isn't available in a manual AWD version. Are you sure about the W8? Edmund's only lists it as an automatic.

Back to the 6--any recent rumors about when we'll see a 6 wagon or hatchback here?

capitano

is when somebody buys one in Europe and ships it over.....

carspy01

6 Sportswagon and Hatch are scheduled for sale in the US for the second half of '03 as 2004-models.

axiomlover

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/Mazda-6/Images/Wagon.jpg

steine13

The article in AutoBild said that the AWD Wagon is available only with the 4cyl/5sp auto combination. Also said it's a dog, which sounds about right.
Automatics are just part of the general wussification of America.
And apparently Germany as well...
Seriously, though, automatics are making inroads in Germany, but the stick shift is still far more popular, except maybe in the $40k+ class. The good news is that if they're building an AWD 6 in that configuration for Europe, it only makes sense if they ship that very car to the States.
BTW, there's another article where he Mazda 6 wins out against the Ford Mondeo (Contour) and the VW Passat... these are wagons with stick shift and Diesel engines. Whatchoo wanna bet we ain't gettin' that one...
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI

johnclineii

I wouldn't be so sure. The American companies, under strong pressure from of all people CARB and the EPA, are looking at Diesel again. The limiting factor is that our Diesel fuel is relatively dirty and the petro industry must be forced into making cleaner burning fuel.

This is why right now so many delicious Diesels are not available in North America. Then again, GM's (and VW's) US history of making crappy Diesels doesn't help any.

hwyhobo

johnclineii, CARB and EPA are an obstacle, not help so far, but they may compromise in the future. I recommend you read January 2003 issue of Car and Driver. There is an interesting article on this very subject (acceptance of diesel engines).

johnclineii

I have. Car and Driver has a viewpoint. CARB and the EPA ARE favorably looking to Diesel. Again the problem is the fuel.

markjenn

While it is fine if Mazda wants to bring out an AWD version of the 6 wagon, I hope they don't get hung up on this to the detriment of expeditious FWD availability.

I say this because if I was in the market right now for an AWD wagon, I think there are some good choices from Subaru, Audi, and VW. The Mazda may be a little better or cheaper, but it doesn't feel like it will fill a need that isn't already being filled.

What I think is missing are great non-AWD, lighter, cheaper, true sports wagons at a reasonable price.

There's the awfully cramped BMW 325iT for $35K (only for one more year - its being dropped when the new 3-series based SUV ships), the sketchy-build-quality Passat wagon for ($28K), and a bunch of too-small-and-underpowered compact wagons like the Jetta wagon and Protege 5 in the under $20K area. This leaves a huge gap for a great FWD V6 220-hp+ sports wagon in the low-20's.

This (or the same thing in a hatch) is the car I want Mazda to start selling. Hopefully, they'll do it next fall.

- Mark

johnclineii

What? You aren't satisfied with the Taurus/Sable sportswagons?

carspy01

Alles klar, Mathias!
My information so far is - apart from the AutoBild article - that the 3.0l V6 AWD 6 Sportswagon will only be produced here, i.e. allocation for Northamerica only.

joybell

My sister left Toyota and bought a Protege in the summer, my brother left Honda and bought a Protege5 in the fall. I'm still with my Subaru Loyale waiting for a good sized 2WD Japan made station wagon. I called Mazda Canada this morning and they tell me that the sedan will be available in January 2003 and the wagon in fall 2003. I forgot to ask if the motor is a Ford or not. Both my brother and sister bought the Protege because it has a Mazda engine and the car is put together in Japan. Will this be the same with the 6 wagon. If so, I will wait for it.

ashutoshsm

They have used the design of the block (only) from V6 duratec that ford builds. They've added on everything else, including a very advanced variable valve timing system (akin to vTec and VVTI from Honda and Toyota resp.).

And the 4-clylinder engine is all-Mazda - a brand new design.

The wagon will have one of these two engines, so rest assured you're not getting a Ford engine. And even if you were, the Duratec is one of the best designed and reliable engines ever built, and possibly one of Ford's few saving graces!

capitano

that the wagon will be assembled at the same plant as the sedan here in the states.

Mazda will have the only player in that segment. Honda, Toyota and Nissan are not offering mid-sized wagons at all. If you want one built in Japan you'll have to move there.

markjenn

I think making a car-buying decision based on where the final assembly plant is or where it was designed is short-sighted these days. Cars are assembled all over the world using sub-components produced all over the world based on designs made all over the world. Mazda has an excellent reputation for producing solid cars, no matter where the final point of assembly is.

Yes, the Mazda V6 motor is loosely based on the Ford motor, but it has been extensively re-designed and the Ford motor was a pretty good one to begin with.

- Mark

mazdafun

Its location shouldn't be discounted. Some are run well, others aren't (finished article is less than the sum of its parts).

The Ford/Mazda AAI (where the Mazda6 variants for NA is/will be built, and where the 626 for NA used to be built) and GM/Toyota NUMMI (Corolla, Matrix/Vibe) plants seem to be run well, based upon the history of the vehicles they've turned out.

joybell

But, I can't move to Japan. Sorry, but I don't have a very high opinion of North American car assembly employees. All they care about is their paycheck and time off. A friend of my brothers had trouble with his Subaru Outback from the day he bought it. My sister was a longtime Toyota fan who switched to Mazda (Protege). She tells me that car is completely made in Japan. If that is so, maybe a Mazda Protege5 is the best buy. These North American assembled "Japanese" cars may be fine for those people who previously owned domestic cars, but we Japanese car drivers have been spoiled. We never have to go to the dealer for repairs. Maintenance is all that is necessary for "real" Japanese cars. My opinion. Sorry if it offends some people.

boxfan

As an owner of two very reliable American-made Japanese cars (one from 1990 with 100K miles), I don't think it's necessarily a problem. You have to look at individual models and see how they do. I think, looking briefly at Consumer Reports' reliability ratings, that Japanese-made models might have an edge, but I think you're really limiting yourself by refusing to consider American-made models. Then again, it makes your car purchasing decision easier if you have fewer models to choose from.

dudleyr

I own a Japanese made Integra, and while it has been very reliable, it has needed more than routine maintenance. I have had to replace the starter, and the alternator, the front half shafts twice, and the muffler 3 times (fortunately Acura replacement mufflers are warranteed for life, so they have been free). It does have nearly 150,000 miles so that is not out of the ordinary, but it is more than routine maintenance.

cb70

and time off. I know because a friend of my brother's bought a lemon once. Jeesh.

markjenn

have essentially been NA-built for years and years with outstanding reliability. Consumer Reports has concluded that there is no reliability difference between US built and overseas built versions of the same product. With a couple of rare exceptions (Mexican built Jettas come to mind) the company and design matters, not where it is built.

- Mark

rotarykid

I personally have had a lot of experience with american made mazdas and japanese made mazdas and there is a difference. Being a mazda tech of 15+ years, I saw the american made mx6's and 626's come through the dealership in the late 80's to early 90's. I saw something that I had never seen before when PDIing these cars and just working on them in general. SCREW UPS! I have yet to see an asian born mazda come through with any blatant problems. crossed threads, parts missing, parts loose, etc., are not uncommon with the domestic models.

johnclineii

The late 80's to early 90's are a very long time ago. The Flat Rock plant, which is the only place US built Mazdas are made, has improved markedly since then. Quite frankly, ALL plants (including the Japanese ones) have improved drastically since then.

Still, there is a SMALL difference in quality between MOST domestic vehicles and MOST Japanese ones. From the studies I read, there is virtually NO difference in Accords (Marysville, OH vs. Japan) or Camrys (Georgetown, KY vs. Japan). Note, however, that recent reports indicate that Toyota quality overall is slipping, with quality levels of the latest Camry lower than the preceding model at its introduction. There have also been issues of oil sludge in some recent engines, so much so that Toyota has modified its warranty practices.

I have not seen similar quality studies for Flat Rock, which leads me to believe that the difference is probably more significant. Still, I would not judge today's cars by the ones made a decade ago.

joybell

My choice is made. I am buying a red Impreza 2.5TS wagon, which is not really a wagon in my view, but it has lots of room and is made in Japan. My mom bought one in 1999 (yr2000 model), did have a problem with wheel bearings but nothing since then and she already has over 100,000 kms. She is over 80 and loves this car. I guess you can call me a die-hard Japan-made car fan. After 2 Subarus that lasted 10 years each without trips to dealers for warranty fixes, I think I am making the right choice, although I would have prefered a car with the looks and size of the Mazda 6 wagon. At least I'm getting the colour red!

cb70

Hmmmm.

joybell