Mazda6 Wagon

moonpie2

Any thoughts on this comparison?

capitano- Have you considered this vehicle in your list of alternatives to the M6?

markjenn- It sound like what you are saying is that the WRX to M6 is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison due to class. Would you consider the Lexus sportcross to be closer to the M6? How do you think they stack up?

mazdafun

Again, Lexus more luxurious, as it's intended to be.

The 6 has more cargo room and rear seat room.

I think the Lexus wagon's rear is ugly (seems to have been taped on and then give a good slap upwards), but that's subjective.

capitano

I would be interested in the Lexus sportcross if it was available with a manual transmission and I had an extra couple thousand dollars to spend.

markjenn

Well, any lines you draw in the sand between cars are somewhat arbitrary, but I would think the Sportcross is more in the M6 wagon class compared to the WRX. It's similar size. But its still not a direct comparison - the Lexus is RWD rather than FWD, costs (or will cost once the M6 wagon ships) about $10K more, is much more luxurious, and isn't available in the manual tranny (assuming the M6 wagon is). It also is a bit of a wagon/hatchback clone - there isn't that much extra space in the back. All these things point to a more upscale wagon with more luxury features that stacks up against cars like the BMW 325iT and the Volvo and Audi small- and mid-size wagons.

The direct competitor to the M6 wagon is the FWD VW Passat wagon. The Subaru Legacy wagons are also very close, although I think they all come with AWD now. If I were shopping for a M6 wagon, I'd be sure to drive the Passat and the Legacy before deciding.

The Sportcross is an interesting car, giving you most of the good (and bad) of the IS300, but with a bit more utility. The good of the IS300 is Lexus reliability and customer service, a very tight chassis with superb handling, and very nice fit and finish. The bad is the gimmicks - taillights, interior detailing, etc. - as well as the lack of a manual tranny.

If you shop a Sportcross, be aware that it's just about to be superceded with a new model and the inline-six gets lousy mileage. Lexus is having a lot of trouble seling IS's right now, so you can get some really good deals. If you don't mind the automatic and like the detailing, it could be a real bargain right now - a very nice sporty RWD Lexus with a little utility for less than $30K.

- Mark

capitano

The passat would be interesting if it weren't for VW's reliability problems.

markjenn

Well, the Passat is about the only VW right now showing Ok reliability (not great, but Ok), so your luck with a Passat is probably going to be better than most VWs. But I agree, a M6 (or Legacy) is likely to be much less trouble.

By the time the M6 Wagon ships, there will probably be a new Passat, a new Legacy, and new IS300 either here or about to be releasd. The new Legacy B4 looks absolutely stunning in early release photos.

http://www.subdriven.com/features/04_legacy/04_legacy.html

So seems like a good time to hold off and see what the tide brings in.

All these new competitors are going to mean big trouble for Mazda with the 6 wagon, especially the new Subaru which is scheduled to ship about the same time. This long delay in getting the wagon and hatch shipped are going to make things very rough for them.

- Mark

capitano

That does look pretty nice. I had no idea that subaru was going to make such a car.

Of course what I really want is an Alfa Romeo 156 sportwagon, but I can settle for something else.

If the 6 wagon was out now, it'd be a no-brainer. But I'm not in a mood to wait another 6 months for a car that may not may not be available with the MT. So I'm looking at the P5 and the Matrix XRS. If I thought I could get a deal on the WRX wagon, I'd consider that too.

markjenn

If the small size, econobox heritage, and somewhat peaky engine of the WRX doesn't bother you (and it sounds like it doesn't since you're looking at the P5 and Matrix which are similar), then I'd go for the WRX wagon. This is a very cool car. There is a recent Edmunds report on here and they absolutely loved it. Great blend of sport and utility and with the recent restyle, they're Ok on the eyes now. I don't think you can go wrong.

BTW, I'd go for 17" wheels/tires at Tirerack and forgo the expensive Subaru wheels. My bet is that you could get in a WRX wagon with no options for around $23K. Lotta car for this money.

- Mark

mazdafun

MNAO should've brought over the hatch and wagon at the same time as the hatch. Think they would've learned from the Protege/P5 situation.

capitano

I like the WRX. It has fallen from the running in my little race because of lower fuel economy and higher cost. Somehow that trade seems worthwhile in the 6wagon, but not in the WRX.

knhill

Wow! A Subaru with styling that isn't mind-numbingly bland! With an interior that isn't straight of a late 70s Toyota! How are Subies for reliability?

markjenn

I haven't looked at any recent reliability data on Subarus and the B4 will be a new model, but generally, I think Subarus have an excellent record, on par with Mazda overall and probably a little better than any of the Ford-built Mazdas.

- Mark

qbrozen

I think saying its on par with Mazda is a pretty fair statement. Some folks swear by Subaru, but my experience was a little different. Not terrible overall, but enough to make us get rid of it before the 100K mark. Its the labor that will kill you more than anything on it. The boxer design is NOT a do-it-yourself friendly design. If you expected the same maintenance and repair schedule for both vehicles, I believe the Mazda will come out cheaper in the end. Just a guess, but an experienced one.

smo615

With in a year there will be many good options to the M6 wagon - the 05 Subaru Legacy turbo GT, the Volvo V50 on the new Focus II platform, the new 05 Passat wagon with 200 hp turbo 4 or a 240 hp V6, and right now there is the Subaru Forester XT turbo which has more room than the WRX and almost the same straight line preformance. I understand the only way you can get a Lexis IS300 Sportcross is to order one. Dealers do not stock them because they are such slow sellers.

groovypippin

I think its important to note that ALL of the cars you just mentioned will likely be $4 - $10,000 more than a comparably equipped Mazda6 wagon(at least in Can$). That's a lot of scratch.

johnclineii

Actually until all these cars are priced, no one knows what will cost what. The Mazda wagon pricing is somewhat of a riddle. The hatch even more so.

markjenn

There are rumors of the new Subaru going upmarket and over $30K, but that would surprise me.

I generally agree - if Mazda holds the M6 wagon and hatch pricing at a small premium over the sedan, then they should be in the $20K for a stripper vs. $25K for a loaded car range, and this should hold at least a few thousand advantage over everyone.

BTW, there is a new Passat coming also.

http://www.scottvw.com/news/news_126.html
http://www.automobear.com/Proud%202005%20Passat%20will%20retake%2- 0its%20visual%20throne.html

It will likely be in the $30K range, but these photos show very a very handsome car.

- Mark

gtyler2000

Is this new news?

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 37129.htm
---
Still another prospect is a 6-based "sport wagon" patterned on the recent Sport Tourer concept, with raised suspension and all-wheel drive.
---
The article was updated 7/30/03 and I was wondering if this was the update.

Sounds interesting to say the least.

moonpie2

Maxima Wagon? Anyone heard of such an animal from Nissan? I seem to remember seeing a car like this a few years back in the japanese market. Maybe it was based on the Skyline not the Maxima. Such a model would certainly satisfy the thirst for room, handling, horsepower (265 as of 2004), and manual transmission.

dinu01

The Sport Tourer is not it. That perhaps hints at the next generation MPV...

The M6 wagon is already out in Europe.

Dinu

robr2

According to Edmunds used listing - last one listd was 1988 - I believe that was the last squared off model.

dinu01

It would satisfy room and power, but not handling.

The Maxima does not handle as well as a Mazda6. And as far as room goes, at least the Maxima sedan is just too big. The M6 is just right - for me of course

Does the new Max get an independent rear susp? I drove a 00 SE MT that didn't and it was a pretty choppy ride.

Dinu

dinu01

http://special.atenza.mazda.co.jp/present01.html

Dinu

nedzel

I recently test drove a WRX wagon. You'll have to try it to see if it is for you. It isn't for me.

The doors make a tinny sound when you close them. The cloth interior looks awful, IMHO. The car is quite loud inside and the engine sounds unrefined. In the one that I drove, I had a hard time finding first gear. While the shifter had short throws, I found it to be very vague. It was fast and turn-in was quite good. I could imagine that it would be quite a bit of fun on a canyon road. But I could not live with it as a daily driver. YMMV.

johnclineii

also the WRX wagon is amazingly small...at least to me...

jchan2

We need it. Some good wagons wouldn't hurt. Not to say the L-Series is bad, but it's just that it looks kinda like a rental. And the Taurus/Sable.... That pair is totally the king of the rental car fleet.

mazdafun

MNAO may have let too much time pass. Looks like Subaru's bringing back the Legacy wagon with their new platform. And it looks good too.

johnclineii

...and will have fulltime AWD, with the added expense, complexity and reduced fuel economy, STANDARD.

qbrozen

fuel economy isn't affected THAT bad. You might be looking at a couple mpg drop at worst. My Forester and 626 got exactly the same mileage. The new Legacy will be a turbo version of the 2.5, so I'd expect to average about 21-22 mpg. What are folks getting in the v6 mazda6? 24?

Not a bad hit for having AWD. Complexity? Of course. Goes with the territory. The Legacy will definitely cost more, though. No doubt about it.

revka

Hi Folks - Here is a new discussion that some of you may find interesting: Malibu Maxx vs VW Jetta vs Subaru Forester vs. Mazda 6. Thanks for your participation.

And now, back to the subject of the Mazda6 wagon.

Revka
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons

Karen_S

Mazda Mania Chat
Tuesday nights - 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET.

herzogtum71

I haven't been able to find cargo room specifications for the Mazda 6 Wagon. Since it already is being sold in Europe, could someone provide the specs for both rear seat up and rear seat folded down? No problem if the specs are metric; I can convert them to cubic feet. Thanks. I am looking to replace a '94 Corolla wagon within the next year, and I would like a wagon with a slightly larger cargo area. I want cargo room and good gas mileage, and the smaller SUVs and crossovers are lacking in cargo space, especially with the rear seat in use.

strager

I like the styling of the 6 wagon, but found a better alternative - a Scion xB. If the xB's styling is OK with you, this is a really cool wagon at a terrific price.

herzogtum71

I wouldn't object to the Scion xB styling, but the cargo area behind the rear seat is only about 21 cubic feet. That's about the same as our 2003 Matrix, and I find space to be a bit tight when carrying luggage for 2 adults and 2 teenagers. The '94 Corolla wagon, by contrast, is a good bit larger at 31.4 cubic feet. So that's why I'm looking more at the traditional station wagons. But these are hard to find. Any other ideas besides the Saturn L series and the VW Passat? I don't want to go much more than $20K in price.

smpool

herzogtum71,

Over at the Australian Mazda website, it lists cargo space as 505 litres.
http://www.mazda.com.au/specifications.asp?ID=21

Another page at this website says over 1700 litres of cargo space.
http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone.asp?articleZoneID=1691

Perhaps one is with seats up and one with seats down.

mazda6s

"Perhaps one is with seats up and one with seats down."

Exactly.

dudleyr

Ford Focus has 38 cubic ft behind the rear seat, and handles better than the 6 (in my opinion). It probably has a little less rear seat room than the 6 (but an upright seating position makes the most of it) but certainly more than the Corolla (which I also used to own).

The Focus is also very reasonably priced and very easy to option just how you want. Can get leather with a manual tranny and no roof. They are also starting to use the new 2.3 liter engine (related to the 2.3 in the 6) that is supposed to be near zero emissions.

Only drawback is a little more road noise than the 6 (less than Corolla wagon though - since that is 2 generations old), and of course reliability. Reliability has been improving, and may be up to average or better now. Next month the new car preview comes out from CR and that is when they first publish the latest reliability data.

For well under 20k you could have a totally loaded Focus w/ leather ABS Traction Control, Stability Control, Alloys, Sport package etc,etc,etc.

I really like the 6, but if the Focus reliability improves who knows - especially if Mazda has Whacky option combos.

herzogtum71

Thanks. It has to be seat up 505 litres, seat down 1700 litres. According to my conversion tables from the Industrual Research Service, that works out to be close to 18 cubic feet with seat up and 60 cubic feet with the seat down. These figures seem low. Maybe they have a different notion in Austrialia about what constitutes cargo space. From the pictures on the Australian web sites it looks like the space would be more comparable to the old Corolla.

Earlier today I checked the Ford web site. I know people who have the Focus who like it well enough but are not overly excited by the car. It may be worth checking out.

mazda6s

1 Liter = 0.03532 Cu.Ft.

herzogtum71

book says 1 liter = 0.03531566 cubic feet if carried out to 8 decimal places.

A question for those of you in Europe and Austraila, etc.: Would you say that the Mazda 6 Wagon has more cargo space behind the rear seat than vehicles like the Toyota Matrix (listed at 21.8 cubic feet) or even the Subaru Impreza Sportwagon (listed at 27.9 cubic feet)?

Edmunds and the car magazines call the Mazda 6 a "midsize" wagon. A cargo area of less than 18 cubic feet doesn't seem midsize to me, which is why I suspect that the Australians somehow define and calculate cargo capacity differently than Americans do.

mazda6s

"book says 1 liter = 0.03531566 cubic feet if carried out to 8 decimal places"

You must be a Physicist, or a Lawyer.

johnclineii

...or a certified public accountant!

All of which types seem the type to be interested in the Mazda6 wagon. Hmmmmmm.

herzogtum71

I translate old handwritten documents from German to English.
     I discovered another wagon of potential interest, the 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Sportback, which is to be introduced in the USA sometime before the end of 2003. Check out the discussion on Edmunds.
     Ford Focus wagon is the right size, but I can't see buying a new vehicle without rear seat headrests. Some of the comments in the Edmunds forum also make me pretty wary about the Focus.
     So I think I'll bide my time until more information is available about both the Mazda 6 Wagon and the Mitsubishi Lancer. If neither of these turns out to be a good fit, I may consider the Toyota RAV4 even thought the cargo area with rear seat up isn't quite as large as I would like.

johnclineii

Wagon and hatch now featured on mazdausa website...Coming 2004, it doth say

herzogtum71

I wasn't able to find anything about the wagon on the website.

smpool

try here. Its down below the 3.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=- upcomingMain

mazda6s

Dang, I had to look that one up ...

herzogtum71

Thanks, smpool. No specs as yet, and the pictures are European. But at least it sounds like they are committed to bringing the wagon to the U.S. market!

markjenn

As has been discussed on the hatchback board, the web site does indicate that there will be no 4-cyl wagon; just the V6 with both manual and auto trannies.

- Mark

jchan2

looks a lot like the sedan.