Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

garandman

I respectfully disagree. Subaru bumped the head gasket warranty to 8/100 without much of a fight. Toyota fought tooth-and-nail on the oil sludge issue. Proof...:

Subaru bumped the head gasket warranty on the 2000 my and later Outbacks - which have SOHC 2.5l engines.

They have steadfastly denied any problem with the DOHC 2.5l engine in the late 90's Outbacks - the car that put them on the map in terms of popularity.

If you think Subaru did this "without much of a fight" go to www.ultimatesubaru.net, and do a search on head gaskets in the New Generation Subaru forum. You will find thirteen pages of threads. That's not the threads themselves - that's the summary.

Or go to http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html where you can read the summaries of this problem on different Subaru forums.

Do I hear someone whistling in the dark?

kende

F.Y.I. The knock sensor is located on the drivers side of the engine on the top of the block under the intake.. Take air lines and box and look stright down between the intakes and it is held in place by one hex head bold.. It is round and has one lead which disconnects easily.

The O2 sensor ( B1 ) is located on the exhaust just before the converter..

pallis

I recently purchased a 97 outback wagon with 100,000 miles on it. car runs good but only gets about 24 mpg highway and maybe 22 city. Is this normal? It has the 2.5 engine. With fuel as high as it is now any good suggestions would help.

Thanks, Nick.

rob_m

My old 96 Outback never got more than 24 on the highway. It also required premium gas. The new 03 Outback rarely gets more than 22 highway. Rob M.

blackbean

I also have an '02 Bean. I notice creaking/squeaking a LOT when I leave the car OUTSIDE in the winter below freezing. This is rare, because I always garage at home. But when we do go skiing or somewhere in the winter I notice that it takes a good 20-30 minutes or so for the car to completely warm up and become quiet & responsive. I would suspect the lube as one potential part of the problem, but I also suspect inferior struts. I have 45K and anticpate upgrading to Koni or Bilstein in the next year. I did this on an Accord Ihad years ago (at only 10K) and the car handled like a dream and never had the same creaking/squeaking again.

This will not be cheap probably - $600 or so, but if you plan to keep the car, you will never have to do it again and you will benefit from better handling and quieter ride if you do it now. This is assuming, of course, that you have ruled out bad bushings, coils etc...

Hope that helps.
Matt

glenford

I have a 96 Legacy with that engine. I generally expect 22-24 mpg, based on 112K miles of history. I have the original window sitcker (!). EPA was 20 city 26 highway (for an auto).

My owner's manual called for premium, but early in the service life the dealer told us to use regular, and it always ran fine.

Of course, we did have the dreaded seals problems.

paisan

I highly doubt you'll get 200k out most cars today, especially a Hyundai/kia/ford but good luck.

-mike

dcm61

My old 96 Outback never got more than 24 on the highway. It also required premium gas. The new 03 Outback rarely gets more than 22 highway.

My 96 Outback A/T got between 21 and 23 local driving and between 26 and 28 on trips. I usually ran 89 or 93 octane (ran lousy on 87).

My 03 Outback A/T gets around 22 or 24 local driving and between 28 and 30 on trips (the 30 was on a trip through your neck of the woods).

Sounds like you and your wife need to ease up on the throttle.

DaveM

rob_m

I will admit to pushing 80 on the highway. I also tend to keep the Thule bars on the car year round, and swap out the ski and bike racks. This can't help my mpg either. Rob M.

garandman

I recently purchased a 97 outback wagon with 100,000 miles on it. car runs good but only gets about 24 mpg highway and maybe 22 city. Is this normal? It has the 2.5 engine. With fuel as high as it is now any good suggestions would help.

We've had two of them and still own one. Long term average is around 25.5 with mixed city/highway driving. Now with 150K+ miles it's barely more than 25.

We live in the city and in ure city driving got 20mpg.

The highest we've ever gotten on a single tank -for a contest at work - was 28.4. We've had a couple of highway tanks of 26-27.

msoo

I installed the hitch for my Outback but found that the bike rack's section that goes into the hitch is too short!! Instaed of going in for the full 4-5", it only went in about 2" before hitting the bumper. What options do I have? Is there some sort of hitch extension that I need to buy?

Help!

- Michael Soo

jcabin

How about a low pitched vibration that appears to come up through the floor boards? This only happens when the 2004 H6-3.0 is cold. As soon as it warms up and the idle speed drops, the vibration disappears and the car purrs along. The car must also be in gear, must have been driven a short distance, as in out of the driveway and stationary, such as waiting at the end of street to merge with traffic.

56rascal

I had to have the oxygen sensors replaced at 34.5K, and I was wondering if anyone out there has had the same experience. The car is out of the warranty period, but I know Subaru had a recall on the sensors or the re-program the O2 values a couple of years ago. Just seems a bit early to have to replace the sensors.

rbarg

Last week I had a major repair on my car - new radiator, new water pump, timing belt and headgasket set replacement, tensioners and bearing, idlers, radiator hoses, hydraulic tensioners and sparkplugs - the engine was obviously taken apart and many hoses were replaced. It was done at a reputable subaru repair facility.

On Friday I got the car back. They said they road tested it. After 50 miles of driving, the car would not accelerate and after I pulled over, I noticed all of the transmission fluid drained in a puddle below then engine on the ground. I had to have the car towed back to where it was repaired.

It seems highly likely to me that this problem occurred because of the way the repair was done - maybe a loose hose or something.

Would anyone want to make an educated guess as to what happened during the repair that would cause the transmission fluid to rupture like that? How likely is it that the transmission itself was damaged and how should I approach the repair shop? They seemed reasonable in the past but I would like to go in armed w/knowledge.

stantont

From your talk of transmission fluid (rather than gear lube), I assume you have an automatic transmission. In that case, the almost certain leak source is one of the lines to the transmission cooler, which is inside the radiator. The shop forgot to tighten one or both of these lines after replacing the radiator, and the transmission pumped all the fluid out. The transmission may or may not be damaged, depending on how much fluid was pumped out before the car stopped working. They hold quite a lot of fluid, with most of it staying in the torque converter. I don't have the specs on your car, but it probably holds 10-14 quarts.

The problem is the shop's fault, and when you tell them about it (be nice ), they will probably be very embarrassed. I would ask them to tighten the lines properly, refill the transmission with new fluid, and make note of how much it takes. Then compare that amount with what the transmission's full capacity is (in your owner's manual), and see how it drives. Automatic transmissions are pretty robust things, so you are probably all right, though it is a good thing this didn't happen in summer, when the transmission might overheat (scorching the fluid) before finally stopping.

You might ask for a receipt admitting the error, in case the transmission works for a while but stops in a few weeks (unlikely, but a possibility), though they may balk at that.

Stanton

20llbean

Hello Board! It has been sometime since I last posted but I have a problem with my 2001 llBean. Yesterday, while driving on the highway, I decided to shut the windows and turn on the AC as it was failrly warm yesterday in the philly region. Lo and behold, only hot air was coming out of the vents! I set the temperature at the lowest setting 65 degrees, nothing but hot air. When I got home, I decided to unplug the control line to the compressor and re-set to see if dirt or vibration had lossened a connection, nothing but hot air again! So I concluded without the tools that it's either a sensor in the cabin went, the relay at the compressor went, a leak in the tubing (but the there was no frost build up on the compressor), or the compressor itself. Now during the winter I did use the AC to defrost windows various times so the unit was used and effectively did the job. Has anyone experienced this as I am distrubed that this would happen with a 4 year old car. Thanks.

stantont

There could be lots of causes, including a problem with the compressor relay, a vacuum leak, etc. Most likely on a 4-year-old car in the north where A/C isn't used much during the winter is slow leakage of refrigerant from the compressor shaft seals. If this happened, then when the system gets too low on freon, a low-pressure limiter switch does not permit the compressor to turn on. A reliable a/c shop can check this pretty quickly, and if necessary add refrigerant to bring the system back up to full.

If this turns out to be the problem, it would be a wise move to be sure the a/c runs several times a month all year around (even in winter) to distribute lubricant throughout the system and also to keep the compressor shaft seals flexible. Here in central Texas, we use the a/c for much of the year, and refrigerant leaks are rarer. My '95 Ford Aerostar finally needed one 12-ounce can of R-134 refrigerant last year (9years old), but other cars where I tried to "save gas" by not using the a/c except during really hot weather lost refrigerant within 3-4 years. False economy!

Stanton

markk1

I have 2000 Outback with about 70,000 miles. Starting a few months ago the transmission would not always engage when starting from a red light or just after a turn (going very slowly). When i say not engage I mean that it acted as if I was in neutral. engine/Tach revved but nothing happened. After a while (several seconds to 1/2 a minute) it would engage. At faster speeds it seems to shift fine. At first the problem was very intermitant about once every couple of weeks now it seems to happen once or twice a day. I've checked the auto transmission fluid which looks full. Also when it started I had occasion to bring the car to the dealer for an oil change and they did not see anything wrong

In searching the web I've noted a couple of folks with similar problems but did not see any posts on the resolution of this issue?

Any ideas?

skiguy2

Here I go again.. I parked my car and walked away and realized rear tail lights were still on even w/engine off and lights shut off.. brake lights work fine but I can only get the lights off by pulling the fuse out which is how I've been driving the car lately. WHAT CAN I DO??? Every time I drive at night I have to put the fuse back in other wise if I leave it the battery will drain. What about if I disconnect and reconnect the battery would that reset a fuse relay or something..will this electrical type problem spread throughout the car?

c_hunter

Turn off the parking light switch on top of the steering column. I bet you or someone else accidentally turned it on at some point.

Hopefully the problem won't spread ;-)

Craig

c_hunter

Has the fluid been changed recently?? (at 60K)

Craig

skiguy2

man I never thought about that switch - duh!! I'll see what happens when I get home tonight....

xwesx

We've had two of them and still own one. Long term average is around 25.5 with mixed city/highway driving. Now with 150K+ miles it's barely more than 25.

My experience with a '96 is very similar. The average is probably down to about 22 now; 182K and counting. Should hit 200K by December.

ateixeira

I'll take my samples from Edmunds, thanks. If you search for a problem, you will find it. Any problem, any manufacturer. I'm sure there are H2 owners picketing against GM for lousy gas mileage. LOL

-juice

garandman

man I never thought about that switch - duh!! I'll see what happens when I get home tonight....

Good news - Subarus (90's vintage, anyway) shut off the headlights with the key, so you can't leave them on.

Bad news - Subarus have a parking light switch, which can be left on.....

rbarg

Stanton,

Thanks for the advice. The repair shop was very nice. The hose had a tear in it, but the transmission was not damaged. They fixed the problem and did some other work on the car for free to make up for the inconvenience.

It worked out well and there was no acrimony.

Richard

stantont

Richard,

Glad I could help. I get so much free help from good folks on boards like this, I'm glad to be able to repay the favor.

Speaking of that: other owners of 2.5 Phase 2 engines, does the engine make a whisper of valve noise at hot idle, or am I due to adjust them? My last two cars had hydraulic lifters, so I'm embarrassed to admit I've forgotten how much valve click is normal with mechanicals.

Craig? Juice?

Stanton

c_hunter

I am not totally sure but I think the phase 2 has hydraulic valve lash adjusters. It is a noisy engine no matter what!

Craig

dcm61

I am not totally sure but I think the phase 2 has hydraulic valve lash adjusters.

Nope, the Phase 2 has manual screw adjustable "lifters". Only the '96 2.5L had hydraulic "lifters".

DaveM

ateixeira

About noise on the Phase IIs, and some info about the valvetrain:

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/EngineNoiseSum04.pdf

-juice

p53mustang

I used to own 2002 subaru outback (first one) car rides nice , handles well on snow and wet pavements. I didn't not have major problem with it (traded it in at 32 or 36k miles not too sure about mileage) it's the little problem that annoyed me. Like the engine light kept coming on and the dealership kept on resetting it telling me it's because i didn't tighten the gas cap well. This happens more than three times to the point that I kept on cranking the gas cap six clicks or more still the same. The headlights (bulb) after a year kept on dying and the warranty covers headlight only up to a year. And it cost $25 at the dealership ( i used oem as much as possible) i've owned quite a few cars but this is the only one that i've had constant problems with the headlights. I brought it up at the service desk but they just say nothing is wrong with it just needs replacement (I make sure the bulb is not touched by hand during installation). To sum it all up i've had little annoying things that kept showing up in this car. And then I came into the forum here and saw some people actually having real problems compared to mine. So I decided to get rid of my extended warranty first and then pay off the car and I traded it in. But before I traded it in I had the 30000 miles service which I paid around $500 or $600 I think. I always take care of my cars even though I only own them on average 4 to 5 years from 60 to 70,000 miles. I've pretty much stayed away from the dealership aside from routine maintainance until I ran into this Outback .This is the first car that i've had to get rid of within three years of ownership I was concern that as soon as the warranty ran out i'll be stuck with big bills to have it fix not to mention the grief that comes with the car breaking down as was my experience with Ford Explorer (this too I had to get rid of after paying a hefty sum for various fixes, here i'd learn my lesson)
I do not mean to annoy anyone here or instigate something, I'm just basically venting for my previous grief from my outback. Which I would like to repeat was a great car, handling wise but until I see them improve this leaks here and there and other engine problems I do not see myself driving one in the near future. If I may add I work in a surgical department and we take turns with call in case of an emergency surgery we have to be there no matter what and a car breaking down on your way to the hospital is not an excuse for a life is at stake.

garandman

Everyone has different experiences. A co-worker just traded in an Explorer with over 290,000 miles on it. He'd gone through several sets of tires, batteries, an A/ compressor and some suspension components but nothing major failed in that time.

rob_m

FWIW, my 99 GT LTD sedan is now at 123k. I commute 90 miles a day round trip. Ownership cost to date: normal maintenance, one set of tires, one set of brakes, and a couple light bulbs. Gold warrantee covered a couple small oil leaks, and the power antenna.

In the past I have owned a 92 Loyale 4wd wagon and a 96 Outback wagon. I also currently have an 03 Outback wagon. My experience has been the same with these vehicles. None of these vehicles have every broken down.

I work for a Visiting Nurse Association. Beside myself, there are 10 other clinicians in this agency that own (and swear by) their Subarus, especially in the winter months. Rob M.

kamlet

I have a 1999 Outback Limited, 92,000 miles...a similar problem started a few months ago. It seems to happen after the car has been parked, and the car in on an incline. My mechanic says he has seen a number of these in his shop and has been unable to find a solution short of replacing the transmission, which from his perspective is the last ditch effort.

What have you learned??

goosegog

Well, my 00 OB has given me no trouble, but it is still low mileage.

But constant blowing of expensive halogen headlamp bulbs was a feature of my 88 Merc Tracer. It would go through about two a year and this happened from new until 2000 when I replaced a failed alternator. From then on it never blew another bulb until we got rid of it last fall..

mulliganvi

Hi Casd2,

Did you resolve the issue below. You mentioned it in a Jan. 18th 2005 post. I am experiencing the same problem with my 2001 Legacy GT sedan.

Thanks for any responce...

My 2001 OBW makes a really bad thumping sound when I turn left and right. The mechanic is telling me I need a new transmission. Anyone else have this problem? I only have 69,000 on the car it seems a bit too soon for a new transmission.

stantont

Good reference. Thanks, Juice.

atarget

bought it 6 weeks ago w/120 K miles (95% hwy.); paid $ 7K cash.
Car is running like a charm; had some external coolant seepage on pass. side HG but somehow higher temps & "miracle super glue" subbie dealer poured into the radiator aleviated the problem; also had some oil seepage on both HGs but replacing PCV valve , which was stuck shut and cleaning up few hoses clogged with gunk relieved crankcase pressure and aleviated that problem, too - so far spent $ 2.49 plus tax on new PCV valve by Deutsch (bought it in Autozone - delaer's prices ranged in $20.20 - $69.95 sic!)
and changed oil and filter ( even though oil was spotless when I bought it); it has "filtercharger" K&N air filter so I just cleaned it up and put some trans fluid on gasket; no other leaks in the car; I ordered steel skid plate from my neighbourhood machine shop ( I made own drawing & template) - original "skid plate" is made out of thin and flimsy plastic so getting rid of that was my first "maintenance item" on the vehicle - even if you do not plan on taking your subbie off road, I strongly reccomend getting a real skid plate, despite a decent ground clerance of the car ; previous owner installed rear diff. guard so I didn't have to worry about that one...
whatever people say about various subaru problems ( head gasket, transmission, front suspension squeeks, etc) I think it's mostly matter of driving habits and proper maintenance to avoid them; as I browsed through other brands' ngs I was sort of surprised to see how many modern car engines have HG problems ( serious ones - often internal leak through fire rings, not just external seepage of coolant and oil , like in 1999-2001 or maybe newer OBWs); let alone ford trucks (e.g. F-150) or Dodge vehicles ( Sebring, Neon) - most japanese brand car owners know how much Big Three products are really worth ( duh!); I'm talking Mercedes, BMW, Acura, Rover (Honda engine) and many many other otherwise good quality brands... Simply - there is no perfect car ( especially with today's hot running , environment friendly engines); wish you all many trouble - free years of driving your subbies
krzysztof duszkiewicz

ateixeira

I recognize you from the chat last week.

Just don't ask me to pronounce your name, OK?

-juice

markk1

Yes by the dealer @ 60k

markk1

I have not found out much yet except that other folks have this problem also. Interestingly my car is often parked on an incline in my driveway which is fairly steep. Although I have not noted any correlation between the issue and having parked on the driveway. The problem seems to always occur when I stop at a light within the first 5 - 10 miles after starting up. The one time it was really bad (maybe 30 seconds before it went into gear) I tried putting it in the low gears 3,2,1 to see if that made any difference which it did not. BTW did you have your transmission fluid changed shortly before this started? There was a posting that asked me and it turns out I did with the 60k service which was really at 63k which was shortly before the issue started.

bat1161

I will echo atarget's view of no car is perfect. I have a 2000 OBW 5spd, which I love (else I would not be following the boards here ).

I have had various problems since I have taken delivery 4 years 8 months ago. I have had the warped rotors (front and rear) that have been ground once, then replaced. I have had the clutch replaced at 36K miles (under warranty) when I had complained about clutch shudder. I have had a fuel injector replaced at 59K miles, both head gaskets replaced, as well as "minor" work done. That includes the weather stripping replaced around the passenger door, and a missing grill for the fog lamp. The story continues as I bring my car in tonight for getting the front struts done.

I have been fortunate in finding a good service dealer who has worked with me throughout all this. I would say that 99% of the work I have had done has been covered either by the original or the extended warranty, so my out-of-pocket cost has been trivial.

My point is: no car is perfect. Sure there have been vehicles that have needed less work; however I have never had the pleasure of a manufacturer who has stuck by their product the way Subaru has stuck by me. I figure I got the "Monday" car -the one that was built on a Monday after a very long weekend of partying:-). My wife has felt that we have had more than our share of "luck" with this OB; but for all that she does agree that we will stick with a Subaru when we do move to a newer car. I know there have been major improvements since my 2000 came out, that's one of my selling points for a new OB XT . My friends know what I have gone through, but after riding in the car, agree it is a good vehicle. Heck, it even got one of them to buy an OB, and another to add 2 more Foresters to the collection.

Mark

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passnthru

We just traded in our 01 GT for a new 2.5i wagon (sweet). The GT (our 5th Subie) was perfect until recently, with minimum service ("if it ain't broke dont fix it"). There is even about 25% wear left on original brakes and no leaking gaskets or plugged hoses/PCV! Want the secret? Amsoil! After about 10K I switched to 0-30 Amsoil 2000. That stuff is awesome, apparently eliminating the clogged hoses, PCV etc., and no leaking anywhere! It had to be the oil, that was the only thing different and all our previous Subies have leaky HG by 100K. I changed oil every 36K, per Amsoils recommendation and oil filters every 3K - 12K, depending on who's filter I was using. I had a theory, that since syn' oils don't have any contaminants, like paraffins, there wuoldn't be anything to clog the works and I think I was right, plus I beleive the gaskets last longer because the engine runs cooler on syn' oils. One other thing with syn, I only went through a quart about every 10K, instead of every 2K with dino oil.

But then, at 137K my clutch started making a strange humming noise just before engaging, probably a throughout bearing (and of course it had been chattering practically since new, but of course my local dealer couldn't "recreate the chatter"). That could have been why it's early dimise. Also, occasionally the starter would make a strange buzz when trying to start, but no starting, till the second attempt. So with all that, and needing a new set of tires (I got over 110K miles out of Pirelli P3000 80K tires, those are great tires!!!!!!!!!!) we took our black beauty down and traded for a new black beauty wagon, which is a great ride and was very reasonable at about $16K. How can you beat that? I haven't paid less for a Subie since '94!! We're lovin it!

atarget

Thanks for a warm welcome ! It's just my pleasure to hang out w/friendly folks
kd

jfl

...it turns out I did with the 60k service which was really at 63k which was shortly before the issue started.

The next questions are: who changed the tranny fluid and did they use the correct fluid?

Jim

garandman

whatever people say about various subaru problems ( head gasket, transmission, front suspension squeeks, etc) I think it's mostly matter of driving habits and proper maintenance to avoid them

If you go to ultimatesubaru.net and do a search in the new generation forum for head gasket, you get 13 pages of posts. That's not posts - that's summaries.

Not to put too fine a point on it but you just bought a Subaru showing evidence of head gasket problems! I've driven two OBW's a total of 242,000 miles so I'll stick with my experiences and those of the hundreds of owners reporting head gasket problems everywhere else.

bmm001

I have a 1995 Legacy Sedan (automatic/AWD) with 90,000 miles on it, and I feel a very strong vibration when in Drive and stopped at idle (for example at a red light). A friend of mine suggested that my idle speed is too low. It is under 750 RPM when in gear and idling. Estimating from the tach, it appears to be around 600-650 RPM. Could this be the cause of the shaking? If so, how do I fix the low idle speed? The vibration goes away when I put the car in neutral.

Brian

outbackmom

Hi,

Have an '03 outback limited wagon. Expecting third child. Problem is I can't fit 3 car seats accross the back seat (or at least the three I already own from previous 2 kids). Has anyone had success, and if so what brands did they use? I would need a booster, convertible, and infant seat to go accross to accommodate my kids. Please help.

kat95

I had an older car that did, the timing was off and just needed to be adjusted. When was your last tune-up? It may be something else, which is why I just go to the dealer.