Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
Dave
Like for example, most of the research for the cars I am interested (Toyota Landcruisers, Corvette Z06, VW Jetta TDI, Honda Civic), almost all, independently point to PBR, aka; Axxis, aka; whatever?
Personal research and experiences on two models Toyota Landcruisers(two versions: 1-FJ60, 4-FJZ80's (580,000 miles) and Corvette Z06 (67,000 miles) with PBR's have been positive. So for example, it would hardly be a stretch for me to go PBR for the Jetta and Honda Civic!
BUT what does that mean in the scheme of things?
It is availiable on the web and you can search it out if you wish to peruse it.
I have an '04 Land Cruiser with 12,000 miles. At the 10,000 mile service I had the dealer check for a very small brake fluid leak under the master cylinder area.
The service adviser said I had a leak in the ABS pump and they would order one.
Long story, but they had my unit a week as they didn't order all the parts or correct ones before starting the repair. They provided me a loaner at no cost to me including gas.
This is where my problem started. My brake pedal now goes down almost halfway before the brakes start to engage. You can pump the brake pedal >40 times with the ignition off, as stated in the owners manual when adding brake fluid to the reservoir, and the brakes will engage higher on the pedal for a while.
Prior to this work being done my brakes always engaged at the very top of the pedal. I have driven three other '04 Land Cruisers and all engage at the very top.
Does this sound like air in the system?
The service manager says there is no adjustment for this and infers it is not a problem.
Thanks for any advise or suggestions.
The factory inboard pad had three shims. The first next to the pad is plain steel, stamped full of holes and rusted beyond use. The next two are stainless - the third (next to the piston) has a half-circle hole in it where the piston touches it. The single outboard shim is rusted beyond use also.
The Ford parts catalog labels these as insulators, not shims. Do they act to dissapate heat between the pad and piston? Counter guy said they have never sold a set of these OEM shims ($25).
New pads: Ford OEM ($43 12/12 warranty) come with a single steel shim bonded to the pad backplate. Counterperson "almost" implied not using the additional shims. Some aftermarket pads come with NO shims (what to do?). The Autozone Duralast Golds I bought came with thin double stainless shims tabbed to each shoe (in and out).
FINALLY, my question. On the inboard pad replacement, do I just use the pad with its attached shims, or, do I ALSO put in those two extra original stainless engineered shims?
Thank you.
Aftermarket pads often skip the insulator and may even claim that they don't get as hot and thus don't need it. Maybe, maybe not.
Personally, I'd use the insulators (at least on the piston side) unless brake squeal was an issue and maybe even then. Brake fade me no likey.
Are the insulators you talk about some kind of non-heat transferring material?
And, your post confuses me. I thought the purpose of "shims" was to alleviate brake squeal.
As you know, the squeal results from the brakes catching and letting go a tiny amount thousands of times each second under high pressure. To allow that back and forth rotation, there has to be both free play and insufficient mechanical friction to prevent the rotation. The lack of friction usually results from dust and dirt "lubricating" the parts. You're aware that aftermarket squeal-stop products gum the brake pads in place so they can't move at high-frequency any longer.
As for the shims - I don't see what they'd do (unless they're really insulators). But I'm no expert and perhaps I'm way off base here so don't flame me - I'm just trying to muddle though this myself.
Do you know how these shims work? I'm curious as I don't grasp the operating principle.
If I had to guess, I'd say that they're easier to built to exact tolerances and less subject to distortion under high heat than the heavy metal backing plate on the brake pads themselves. Thus they can hold the pads more tightly in the caliper than the pad's backing plates alone can. Perhaps?
Another strategy used in many pad designs is chamfering the leading (rear) edge of the pads to prevent compression of the material between the rotor and pad backing plate.
Please go back to my original question and reaffirm a few things:
1. The terms insulator and shim are used interchangeably and they are not a "heat sink".
2. If OEM comes with shims, why do some aftermarket pads come without them (even NAPA premiums $$$). What does one do in this case?
3. In my question above, do I still add in those 2"highly engineered" stainless OEM shims on top of the aftermarket shims, or just use the aftermarket shims? Your logic tells me no OEM shims. Its just that the OEM shims are so sophisticated compared to plain shims, I thought they might be engineered to do something else (heat).
Thank you very much. With internet advice, it's difficult to distinquish between opinions and fact.
The mechanics here said that the exterior paint on the pad was prematurely wearing away and causing the squeeking noise. Sounded like BS to me since I'd never heard of something like this. No mechanical problems at all they said. In order to fix the problem, they filed down the paint, especially on the edges they said. After driving all day today, no squeeking at all.
Has anyone ever heard of this type of problem, or are Midas parts and labor bogus?
its my brothers car, the brake pedal is so hard to push in and you can bearly stop even when the pedal is pushed in all the way. its super hard to push in.
As i speak we are bleeding the system and changing the calipers. i hope this is the problem, and i hope it is not the master cylinder or something worse because i do not know how to fix that myself
Instead, the "power" part of your beaking system is not working. This is most often a vacuum leak but can also be a problem with the vacuum booster. (the large round thingy attached to the master cylinder.)
BTW, Some of the large Fords (Lincoln?) use the powersteering pump as the brake booster.(instead of vacuum) This is a complicated system of hoses and hydrolics that is not easy to work on.
It had GM's hydrolic power brake system, HydroBoost or something like that. I do think it shared fluid with the power steering system.
I have heard this action make noise on some vehicles. The "fix" for this is to PM the rear brakes. (PM= "Preventive Maintenance") Drum brakes should be PMd every 2-4 years.
This PM entails removing the drums and shoes and identifying the specific points where the shoes rub on the backing plate. These areas should be sanded smooth and apply antiseeze lube to them.
If your vehicle has "4 wheel disk brakes" then, of course, the above does not apply.
If this "noise" you are hearing is coming from under the hood, then the brake booster is most likely making the sound. The vacuum that drives the brake booster can make some aweful weird noises under some conditions. When you release the brake pedal, the vacuum system receives a "pulse" that is supposed to be handled by the vacuum resevour. (acts like a capacitor...if you are familear with electronics terms)
Can you tell us... Can you reproduce the "noise" repeatedly with the vehicle stopped by pushing and releasing the brake pedal? If not, I have some more ideas what may be causing the noise.
Thanks for the quick reply. I do have 4 wheel disk brakes and the noise is coming from the front of the car. I can reproduce the noise by doing a complete stop and releasing the brake. Most of the time, after a couple of trials, it will go away for a while. I guess it sounds like the noise when a furnace stops, like releasing pressure. (I know, I am not very good in describing this.) Is the "vacuum resevour" thing the you mentioned dangerous? It works perfectly fine when it is dry.
Thanks again for your help.
Ed.
Since you suggest that the 'noise' is only repeatable after stopping. (not repeatable when just push/release brake pedal) I am now suspecting that the brake rotors may be wet and tend to squawk a bit as the suspension releases tension.
After stopping a few times, as the rotors warm up and the heat drives off the moisture, the noise goes away.
TRY THIS: The next time the weather is wet, try 'creeping' the car very slowly on an incline by just barely releasing the brake pedal until the car moves slightly. (It takes some pedal finesse to get just the right point) Listen if you hear the brakes squawk a bit when you do this.
In any case this is not at "dangerous" thing and you may just have to get used to it. As the brakes get some more miles on them, it may subside. Switching to a different brake-pad material may eliminate the noise alltogether.
Thanks for such a quick reply. I just drove in the rain. It only happens when move from a complete stop, move from a "rollong stop" does not cause a problem. It seems that the noise only comes from the driver side.
I guess if it is not dangerous, I will just get use to it.
Thank for very much for your quick reply.
Ed.
Maybe I shouldn't admit that. >:^}
Don't try this at home. It could flat spot your tires.
Personally, I use my emergency brake EVERY TIME I PARK THE CAR with no exceptions. There have even been times when my normal brakes were not working properly and I uesd the emergancy brake to stop. (A hydrolic brake line burst)
I once talked to a guy that had his brakes quit. My first question to him was "Did the emergency brakes work?" He just looked at me blindly... apparently he never used it before and it did not occour to him to use it then.