Stop here! Let's talk about brakes

wtd44

I appreciate the info on your Autozone rotors. Do you remember the house brand? As for selecting an SUV, Consumers Union and I disagree with your choice, but good luck with it!

wlbrown9

Looking at the Autozone site, probably was the Duralast part number 5118. About $47 list each. I had to return the first I got because their parts lookup in the store showed the wrong one...much too small. They ordered the correct ones and I think knocked about $25 - $30 off the total since I had already pulled the caliper on one side before discovering the wrong part.

I don't listen to much that CU has to say. CU was found in court to have made false statements concerning the Trooper in a 1996 story. Based on that and other cases, IMHO their opinions may not be completely unbiased. Hey, I moved up from a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The Envoy XL (in my opinion) works better for us and with the extended warranty to cover most repairs I don't feel too much at risk. With all the gizmos, gadgets, electronics and computers I'm getting a little nervous about owning a vehicle without some kind of coverage.

wtd44

I have found Consumers Report to be a good marker for some vehicle predictability, but not just iron clad. For example, they can tell you if a "lot" of buyers have had trouble with the brake systems on specific vehicles. They over value some areas of judgement and under value others, relative to many consumers. We each have to "read between the lines" rather than take every word they write as gospel for every single buyer in the market place.

Mr_Shiftright

in the News and Views Board if you want to chat about CR.

wtd44

I'd prefer to just chat about brakes here, in this brake forum, and I was careful to make that connection in post #1033.

amciava

New rotors and pads on my 1999 mustang about one month ago. Now, after backing up and turning and applying the brakes, when I go forward I hear a definite "knock" from the vicinity of the front left wheel. Sometimes it happens when the car first moves forward, and sometimes it is the first time the brakes are applied when moving forward. I have had the car looked at by the mechanics at a Goodyear store. They heard the noise but were not able to identify a cause. Any suggestions?

joe3891

Check out the calipher mount bolt bushings.

bpeebles

What you are describing sounds like the pads moving forward to the front stops. This is not a real problem. Apparently the pads you installed have some play between the stops. Breaking while reversing moves the pads to the rear stops, then the pads are "cocked" and ready to move twards the front stops the next time the rotor moves them forward.

Some QUALITY pads actually are packaged with stainless steel "shims" that are intended to "shim out" the play in the pads between the stops. I still have a plastic baggie full of various width shims for my Dodge Dakota front pads. Anytime I replace the pads, I go thru the trouble of fitting the shims that result in the least play between the stops. (while still allowing the pads to slide freely on the greased stops.)

jmishka

I have also posted this in the Nissan Quest Forum but I was directed here as well.

I have a 99 Quest withone heck of a odd problem. Recently my father and I changed the front brakes and rotors as the pads were very low and the rear shoes as they were getting low as well. Yet there is a weird problem that not one person has been able to figure out...including the Nissan dealer.
After putting on the rear shoes on both sides we put on the drums and reversed the lug nuts so the flat side would be touching the drum (no tire at this poitn) and tightened them just finger tight.. Then we spun the drum to see if everything was moving freely before putting the tires back on. Well the passenger side was fine but the drives side would only spin for 1 revolution and then the lug nuts in the 4 to 5 o'clock positions would become so tight you couldnt loosen them without the lug wrench and the nut in the 10 to 11 o'clock position would be away from the drum about a 1/32 or so, enough to easily see the space gap.

So we adjusted the tension screw to bring the shoes all the way in with no luck.

We filed the metal edges of the shoe down because we thought they might be dragging because we saw some shiney non-black areas after the first couple of spinning attempts but no luck.

So we thought the shoes were not the same but both sides match in length and width and match the old ones except in length the new ones are about 1 inch longer.

So we thought the drum might be out of round so we swapped drums and again no problem on the passenger side but the same problem on the drivers side so the drum is ok.

So we took the shoes off, checked behind them etc and there was no debris and we checked the backer plate which seemed ok so we put the shoes back on again and still the same drivers side issue.

So then we thought the bearing had been extened too far and had wedged itself sideways in the shaft so we took a look at that and all seemed ok. We did not take the bearing out because then you must replace it and it is self-contained and cant be "repacked" or so we were told by Nissan dealer. But there were not burnt areas and it seemed in the correct position.

So we put everything back together, drum still stuck but I drove the thing down the road anyway and the wheel did turn and the brakes worked but the drivers side drum gets REALLY hot as compared to the passenger side drum.

So because we ran out of ideas we have put the old shoes back on the drivers side and are looking for some...any... ideas. The local parts guy made me promise to tell him what it turns out to be as they are quite intrigued at this point.

One thing is that when you beat (and I mean really hard on the drum) with a hammer after you reach the "no more turning freely point" you can get the drum to turn another 1/4 turn or so with "each beating" but it is very difficult to turn and only my father can turn it I am not strong enough. When you first tighten up the lug nuts finger tight you can get one full revolution but then no more unless you really wail on it to get the xtra 1/4 turns.

We are at this point thinking the back plate or axle is off but it works fine/spins-freely when we put the old almost spent brake shoes on, which are the same width as the new shoes but an inch shorter than the new ones.

We didnt notice any undue wear on the inside face of the drum either. But we did notice that the shoe in the most rear position was wearing funny on the bottom side, the innermost area on the pad (at the very bottom closest the backing plate) is worn about 1/2 inch up in an excessive manner but on the outermost bottom area is worn 1.5 inches up the pad in an excessive manner like it has been sheared off or someone filed it...but you can see the wear lines so it wasnt "sheared" per se.

We seem to have stumped everyone we have spoken to in our area and any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Jenn

PS Also the front brakes get very hot now and smoke when I drive through puddles of water. Is this normal? (The pads were very low before so that may be why I never noticed before and the calipers are functioning fine ie not stuck open from formerly low pads etc)

jr714

Hi, I have a '93 Mercury Villager with 170K. I had the front pads changed about 2,000 miles ago, rotors about 10,000 ago. Within a short time after the new pads were installed, I began hearing a strange almost grinding sound while braking at low speeds, which slowed down as I decelerated. When the vehicle is moving, there is a slight sqeak or chirping noise you can't hear with the radio on which gets higher pitched as you accelerate (this symptom has been there for a long time, disappearing at times depending on the weather). There is also a slight pulsing when slowing down at very low speeds. My mechanic checked it, heard the noise and said it could be slight uneven wear on the rotor, not worth fixing. But the noises seem to be getting louder as the weather warms up and it's increasingly annoying. Also, I did not hear any of these noises before the pads were changed. I suspected that they may have installed them incorrectly or put on used pads, though they seem to stop very well. Anyone have any ideas what this is?

bpeebles

If your 'new' shoes are "1 inch longer" than the old ones... are you sure you have the correct shoes? (I realize that the pass. side seems to be OK..so that may not be the issue here.)

Also, have you checked the runout on the spindle? you did not say if you marked the spot that sticks and if it is the same position on the spindle (even if you remove the drum and put it back on in a different positoin)... I am willing to bet that it is!

Now that you have driven it for awhile with the problem, you may be able to remove the drum and look for evidence of where things are binding/rubbing. That may clue you into the problem.

Also, I have seen a sticking parking-brake cable cause goofy problems with drum brakes. You can try REMOVING the parking brake cable from that side and see if that changes the problem. (at least you could rule-out that as the problem)

Mr_Shiftright

A bent spindle is very possible, that's a good answer. One good hard curb hit could do it or a big pothole.

mwill756

I searched through this thread and could not find an answer to my particular problem.
I just completed a front brake pad and rotor replacement on my 99 Protege. It was the first time I have done anything on a car other than changing the oil. In the course of working on the left side (after I finished the right side) I realized that I had only installed the single anti squeal shim on the right set of pads, and no other shims. On the left set of pads I wound up installing one shim on each pad. The end result is that I have 2 shims on the left side, and one on the right side. Will this cause uneven braking? When I press the brake pedal do the calipers "squeeze" the same amount/distance? If so, is my uneven thickness (1 shim v 2 shims) inside of each caliper going to change how much braking is occuring? Thanks for your help.

alcan

Pressure applied and clamping load from the calipers is equal regardless of whether the shims are installed or not, but you might pick up a brake squeal from the right side. The shims dampen out high frequency vibration in the pads, which if transmitted into the caliper can result in squeal.

mwill756

Cool thanks for the response. I was afraid I screwed the whole thing up.

cphk96

Has anyone changed the front brakes on a 93 Jetta?
I know that it's straight forward, but is there any special tools that I will need?

I will be changing my girls pads at her place, so I will be hauling my tools to her house. I just don't want to be stopping every 5 minutes to go to the parts store for a tool.

Thank you

silverangel

Just bought a 97 ford mustang has new tires, new rotors and brakes drives good no pulling when braking or anything but after we drove it about 50 miles now when only going forward you apply brakes the right front when braking makes a slapping sound like a flat tire and only on the one side. Any suggestions to what it might be causing this on one tire with new rotors, and all.

Thanks to anyone who has some answers or suggestions. have a nice day!!!!

karencarlson

I have a 2001 Chevy tracker and we are trying to replace the rear brakes and the brakes fell apart when we took the drum off. Can some one help us find a diagram so we can put the brakes back together.

alcan

Now you know why a lot of techs do one side at a time. This what you were looking for?:

http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/medium/0900823d801e10b4.gif

Mr_Shiftright

Now is that right side or left side...looks like the emergency brake shoe should be to the rear, correct? ...which means we are looking at the right side (passenger side) of the vehicle here?

Mr_Shiftright

Now is that right side or left side we are looking at? Which side should the emergency brake shoe be on, or does it vary car to car?

alcan

It's the right side. Parking brake cables pull, and most are oriented to pull the lever on the rear shoe.

luvmya6

My A6 has just over 50k miles on it and the brakes sqeal terribly when I come to a stop. It's so bad that my car turns heads...not in a good way.

Took it to the dealer several times while it was under warranty and got the same answer that the brakes are fine and the metal pads tend to squeak when it's wet out. (Just for info, they sqeak ALL the time, wet or dry.) So, assuming that's accurate, is there anything that I can do to address this...at this point I'm willing to change out the brakes even if they're not worn out yet, but I don't want to put a stock brake in that I'm going to have the same problem with in 20k miles.

Any suggestions?

bpeebles

Your dealer is correct in saying that metillac pads tend to be noiser than some other choices of pad material. There are special "anti-squeel shims" that can be placed on the back of the pads They may or may-not help much.

Certainly installing quieter pads would help.

I am more concerned that your rotors may be "grungy". Have you tried "letting the smoke out" of the pads? This consists of several VERY HARD stops to get the brakes hot enough to get smelly. This should be IMMEDIATELY followed up with at least 20 minutes of continous non-stop driving to cool things down. Often this will quiet down noisy brakes. I find that I have to do this every couple months to keep my rotors clean. (my normal driving habits do not use the brakes very much.)

luvmya6

Thanks! I'll try your suggestion this weekend.

If I do choose to have quieter pads put on, how would I know what to select? What's "safe" on an A6? I'm afraid that if I take it to a mechanic and ask to have the brakes changed without knowing what I should be asking for, I'll end up with the same problem...or worse.

Thanks again...I'll let you know about if the HARD stops work.

bpeebles

The Rabestos QS pads are touted as being quiet. (QS stands for "Quiet Stop")

Another thing I like about the Raybestos QS pads is that they are CERAMIC based pads. This means that they will not leave nearly as much black crud on your wheels as the metallic pads do.

Here is a link to the Raybestos website so you can read about them.
http://www.raybestos.com/

ekn33634

My 1997 Dodge Caravan emits a loud whistle sound when the brakes are applied hard. No sound when braking normally. The vehicle stops o.k. No fluid leaks. Possible hole in vacuum assist diaphragm??

Mr_Shiftright

No way. Your brake pedal would be as hard as a brick.

Could it be the "warning" device that tells you your brake pads as getting worn down?

ekn33634

No, I just replaced pads. The sound doesn't come from the wheel area, but from the area where the master cylinder is located.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I suppose the booster could be making noise but not leaking...have you tried making the noise with the car stationary?

ekn33634

Yes, with the car stationary, in Drive or Park, it makes the noise.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you'll need to get another pair of ears under the hood while you do this. They may need a piece of hose to stick in their ear to locate the noise precisely.

jmilavec

Hello all,
I need to replace the disc brake pads on a 99 Jetta. Is this a simple job as it appears, or should I take it to a shop? Any tips/experience/advise would be appreciated. Thanks, Jim

ruking1

Yes it is! But if you have any questions or don't know what to do in case of an anomoly: remember, brakes have the ability to be a "life changing experience", aka SAFETY ISSUE.

jsylvester27

My right rear brake is seizing up (won't release). The problem is corrosion of the brake cable. Would this cause me to need a new caliper & brake assembly? I am being told that the piston in the caliper seized up as a result. Is this possible or they trying to hose me? Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright

Hard to say but easy to demonstrate, if you mean the emergency brake system. They could release the hydraulic pressure off the caliper and unhook the emergency cable and then you could see if the caliper is sticking or not. We don't know the kind of car you have so we can't say more. Ask the shop why they think the caliper is seized and they should give you a logical answer...."we did this and this and this and observed that". If they are just guessing, tell them you'd like them to guess with their money, not yours. If they want to replace the caliper to cover their butts, well that is understandable. Personally as a shop owner I would not want to mess with a cranky caliper just to get it working---but also I wouldn't throw away a perfectly good one either.

wrestlergurl

I have a 1990 Mazda Protege SE- it has 176,000 miles on it-
We have put new brakes on it- and they worked fine for about a year- then one day i was driving and the brake pressure was completely gone i pumped them and still nothing. We were told it could be the master cylinder- we replaced it and bled the lines as we were supposed to. Still didn't solve the problem. When i start my car, i will pump the brake pedal before i start it to get pressure- then i'll start the car, and all the pressure is gone. Or i'll pump them, then step on them again, and it's gone. Some people are telling me it could be my vacuum/power booster.

I'm about to go crazy as I really need my car!!!!! Can anyone help me?

Thanks,
Jennessa from Valparaiso IN

Mr_Shiftright

A bad vacuum booster will give you a very HARD pedal but not NO pedal.

You either have air in the lines (improper bleeding), a hydraulic leak at some place other than the master cylinder, or another bad master cylinder out of the box (it happens).

So first check everywhere, at all the wheel and at the Master Cylinder, for fluid loss. If you have no fluid loss, POWER bleed the system. If that doesn't work, replace the master cylinder again.

oc4

Hey Folks- I'm currently in southern california and i'm sick of the brakes on my 2001 galant...i've replaced the rotors once and resurfaced them about 2 other times- anyone out there know if slotted or drilled rotors make any difference or at least if it will help or where i can find a shop that will do it at a decent price for that matter??how much would i be looking at or does anyone know what the best solution to this problem would be? please help!!
Thanks

OC

bpeebles

You did not actually mention what the "problem" is that you are asking us to help resolve.

Please tell us WHY you have researfaced twice and replaced once the rotors?

oc4

thanks for the reply - i've resurfaced the rotors because of being warped - every 15-20k miles i seem to have this problem - after being resurfaced 2 times- the shop i took it too said it was too thin for them to resurface it further - it's been about a year now after replacing the rotors and a lot of shuddering/shaking (again) when braking at high and sometimes low/mod speeds- i've read some articles saying that the galant had a poor design as not enough air gets out- i'm now trying to weigh my options of what I should or can do about and determine if upgrading rotors would do any good.

burdawg

What kind of rotors were put on? Good quality like Raybestos or those cheap $25 ones that many auto parts stores sell? The original factory rotors were probably not the best quality. If the replacement ones were cheap also, then don't expect good service. I don't have a Mitsubishi, but the problem is the same as we have on many GM cars. I have tried drilled and slotted (Powerslot) with no change in service life, so in my opinion it won't help. I live in SoCal also and the we put severe service conditions (well, most of us) on our brakes with the traffic and stop and go driving we do. I've found that what I put in (in good quality parts) is what I generally get out (in service).

bpeebles

I agree with the last appender.... There are some VERY CHEEPO rotors available out there. The metal in them does not handle the rigors of braking for very long. Resurfacing them just makes them thinner and invites more problems.

I have been working on my own brakes for over 20 years and have lived thru the headaches of trying to save a buck by installing el-cheepo rotors. In the long-run, it costs MORE because they will either warp or rust within a couple years.

SUGGESTIONS:
1) Make sure that QUALITY rotors get installed. (Raybestos, Bendix..etc)
2) Make sure that wheel lugnuts are always tighted with a torque wrench to spec.
3) Make sure you take the time to "season" the rotors before "bedding" the pads.( http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html )

oc4

thanks burdawg! i'm sure it was some cheap stuff though being that i went to sears to get it done - i don't have tools/room to do the work myself and wanted to know if there are any (good) shops in the orange county area? it also sounds like raybestos are a pretty popular choice -has anyone ever had any problems w/ raybestos brute stop pads squeaking? I'm trying to find out a good combination for pads as well as rotors- any suggestions?!

bpeebles

Raybestos "BruteStop" pads may be a bit squeeky.

Raybestos "QS" pads would be my choice. (QS means "Quiet Stop") The "bonus" is that the "QS" pads are CERAMIC BASED... so they do not make nearly as much black dust on the wheels.

Here is the Raybestos website: http://www.raybestos.com/usa/brakepads.htm

burdawg

I have to second all that bpeebles says. I can't recommend any shop to you since I do most of my own work. If it's something I can't handle or don't have the time, then I go to a reliable dealer shop, which for us is Chevrolet or Pontiac. My experiences with private repair shops around here has been spotty at best. Good luck.

sky23213

I'd add my 2 cents here too, agreeing with the gentlemen above. The pricier apparently is better. About 2 years ago I felt the typical signs of warped rotors - vibrations and pulsing when stopping. Car was at 60K. My co-worker at the time is very good with cars - he said he'd help me replace rotor/pad and save the labor costs. He even had given me the repair manual as gift . I ordered genuine Mitsubishi rotors and pads w/shims through a friend of mine who owns a body shop, so got a vendor discount probably too. Total was about $250.00. Up to now, at 90K - no problems at all! A good thing would be to follow the torque specifications from the book, as was mentioned above. So, go with original rotors (i've no idea if there is a particular brand Mitsubishi uses). Hope this helps.
Oh, I'm in the Minneapolis, MN area, Galant is 2001 ES 2.4

brewcityc

I'm having problems trying to change the rear rotors on my 2000 Daewoo Nubira. It's supposed to be held on by a set screw and the calliper, but I took them off and the rotor's still not coming off. It's not hanging up on the hub so i figure the problem lies with the parking break. I removed the cable going to the parking break, yet it's still catching. I believe the brake shoes aren't letting off. I can't see any way of getting at the parking break without first removing the rotor which creates a catch 22. I know it'd help if I were to buy a repair manual but you can't just buy one at the automotive store for my car, plus it's not cheap to order one. Any suggestions?

burdawg

Excuse my ignorance on this model, but are you saying it's like some Mercedes with rear disc brakes that have small drum brake shoes inside the rotor hub that are used as parking brakes? If so, you may have to retract the shoes by turning the adjuster from the backside of the backing plate to release the rotor.

brewcityc

Thanks for the response burdawg.Yes that's how the parking breaks work. I guess I should have specified that. I haven't found any type of adjuster on the backside. Is it usually just some kind of screw? Any Ideas where on the backside it'd be?