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If it was my car however, I think what I'd do is pull the fuse on the ABS system, as a diagnostic approach to figure out whether the problem was in the hydraulic system itself, or it was in the electrical/ABS system. If you take the ABS out of the equation by unplugging, and the problem is still there when braking, then you highly suspect the problem is hydraulic.
On the other hand, if the problem goes away, then the problem is likely in the ABS system or computer.
Either way, both of those problems are going to need a professional involved to fix....so just let them do the diagnosis themselves.
Too late now, but wouldn't have putting on the higher quality rotor made more sense? Or, is a rotor a rotor for the most part, and a $30 Napa rotor better than most?
That would depend on whether that $30 rotor was made in China or not....
What was the ultra premium pad made of? Is that $92 for all four?
The mechanic usually gets 25% off of retail and charges retail for the parts. Course some mark it up above retail but that's hard to catch.
As a for-instance, we've had a number of Chrysler minivans, two of which happened to be 1998 models. Our 1998 DGC Sport never made it to the 30,000 mile mark on a set of standard front rotors (one set lasted only 8,000 miles) without becoming so warped that the resultant vibrations were severe enough to render the van almost undrivable. A set of premium rotors cured that problem and when we sold that van it had over 55,000 miles on the rotors and they were still going strong. The flip side is the 1998 T&C (and our 2003 DGC for that matter), it can easily go 50,000 miles on a set of pads and el-cheapo rotors with no issue. What's the difference? Beats the stuffing out of me; the brakes are identical on both vans.
They were ceramic pads.
The $92 was for pads on the front 2 wheels. I didn't know they were sold in sets of 2... so a total of 4 pads So when given an estimate of "Quantity 1" on an estimate, I had to call back to confirm it brake pads for both wheels.
The $92 was the online price from Napa.The shop charged $123. So that's about a 25% markup from retail. :sick:
One of those rotors could have been turned once more, the other were too thin and under specs. So that is why I had them replaced.
We've gotten close to 78k miles right now on the original pads on our MPV. The dealership has recommended replacing them for the last 3 or 4 oil changes. They don't squeal. But, wife wants them changed.
Don't know if any of this is true, but he indicated that Bendix puts their rotors thru an extra hardening/tempering step, which keeps them from getting hot spots and/or heat warping. I bought his storyline, and the rotors, and never had another problem.
That's the only vehicle I owned however, where the standard replacement rotors weren't good enough. I only do sporadic trailering, but I guess that's enough extra heat to do in the stardard's.
The el-cheepo ones are made in China or Mexico out of recycled tin-cans or bycycles. Even if they do not warp, they will get covered wirh rust within 3 winters. Even some of the rotors supplied by Dodge, Chevy or Ford have been 'farmed out' to China. (and are junk)
I learned my lesson about the el-cheepo rotors and now prefer "ATE" or "Zimmermann" (Both made in Germany out of the best steel available)
I had our MPV's brake fluid flushed as well. The tech said it was "brown". I tried to check myself, but the brake fluid reseviour bends at a 90 degree angle and goes under the dash. :sick:
Mechanical pushing in of the plunger, pushes the liquid medicine out the needle.
Mechanical pushing on the brake pedal, pushes the hydraulic fluid out.
Just that where the fluid goes is into the brake lines, which are contained so the fluid doesn't leak out. And there is a spring, to return the brake pedal back up to it's normal height. Also as indicated, it's actually a double plunger, so there are two brake line circuits.
i pumped the pedal to get some pressure back in and it worked just fine....
as soon as i engage my e brake and release it i lose all pressure in the brake lines.....
why is this happening???
help me please
You probably just need to adjust the brakes some more - move them closer to the drum. You could do this with multiple application of the brakes while moving in reverse, but it might just be quicker to adjust them manually. There is usually a hole in the back plate where a screwdriver can be used to screw the adjusting wheel, using the screwdriver blade as a lever to rotate the adjusting wheel.
so i applied the brakes in reverse about 12 times
but once again as soon as i engage and release the e brake all the pressure goes away and i can push the pedal to the floor
is it possible that theres air in the lines??
I'm a little bit suspect that you either didn't get the brakes back together correctly, or your failure to initially manually adjust the brakes either is, or has caused a problem.
If it were my vehicle, I'd put the vehicle on jack stands, and pull the wheels and drums again, and make sure everything looked right, and I didn't have any hydraulic fluid leaks. Then put the drums back on, and thru the slot in the back plate initially adjust the star wheel so the brake pads just very slightly touch the drum. Once you have them adjusted, your regular brake pressure should be firm shen brake depressed. If not, your brakes need bled. I would use that oppty to flush the brakes, if it's been more than 3 years.
Can someone clear this up for me - how do I know when I need new pads and how would I know if I need new rotors? Would I ever need to have the rotors replaced if I replace my brake pads on time??
Thanks...
If you didn't replace your pads when squealing, and you continued to drive and wore the pads down to nothing, then you would have metal rubbing against the metal rotors, and you would ruin the rotor. Then you'd need to replace the rotor.
You might also need to replace the rotor, if you have been a very hard aggressive driver, causing the rotors to get warped from the heat, or hot spots from the heat. In that case, they symptoms you would have is a pulsating brake pedal, felt most typically at low speed.
Many vehicles will drive their whole lifetime on original rotors, so this isn't necessarily a replace at 30K miles deal.
I NEVER have my rotors turned unless I can feel a shimmy when I apply the brakes. Turning them just makes them thinner and les able to deal with heat.
Also, there is a major tire store in our area that won't do a brake job unless thye replace the calipers. I have never once replaced or overhauled a caliper on any car I have ever owned. The Honda store where I worked never touched calipers.
Once in awhile they would replace a leaking rear wheel cylinder on a high mileage Honda. Heck, we used to just overhaul them without any problems.
True. I yielded to the pressure of the dealership service manager during a recent brake job on the MPV. All rotors looked to be in real good shape, no scoring. I told him I just wanted to replace the pads. He said he could almost guarantee the pads would squeak, and then I would have to bring it back in and be charged more for pulling everything back off.
I gave him the," I don't want to spend that much", as it was about $120 an axle to turn the rotors. He agreed to take about $40 off per axle, so I went and had it done. About $40 per rotor turned seems to be the gong rate.
The owner of an independent shop, as I was putting brakes on my Regal, would not put on new pads unless I agreed to have the rotors turned or replaced.
There is that little bit of rotor that doesn't get worn away at the very outside edge during normal brake wear. That is about the only reason why I would think they would require rotor turning. Maybe it's too hard for them to line up the pad. :confuse:
Turning rotors is a high profit industry.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
From what I recall the rotors were about twice as much as turning them.
I had high quality pads put on both my cars. Napa ceramic on the Regal and the OEM pads on the Mazda.
A friend said he thought they had machines now that turned the rotor while it was still on the car. Don't know if that's true, but it doesn't seem it would take that long to turn a rotor. The guy at the dealership made it sound like there was a lot of time and effort involved in it. I have no idea. :confuse:
That was designed specifically for FWD vehicles. I remember Snap On wanted $2K for their model. Was suppose to save labor as removing the rotors from a FWD was a little difficult
The "on car" machines are a snap to hook up. The guy working on the car hooks up the machine and walks away. While he is waiting for the machine to finish, he can go work on another car.
Shops charge 200.00 or more to turn two rotors!
But, it's not the money that bothers me as much as the fact it just isn't needed most of the time. It takes a layer of metal off which only creates more heat.
Hmmm, silly me, I always thought the reduction of metal simply reduced the thermal mass of the rotor, thus causing it to get hotter per calorie of heat added to it. Shows what I know. :P
At least that's what I meant.
The shops will tell you that they can't guarantee their work and some will flatly refuse to not machine them.
Kinda seems like overkill to me.
Do you replace your calipers too?
As for replacing calipers, no, typically I don't do that. The lone exceptions have been when there was damage to the piston either due to corrosion (from the previous owner not flushing the brake fluid often enough) or (in one case only) damage due to some ham-handed previous owner/maintainer.
As far as I'm concerned, it the rotors are within specs thay are good to go.
But then, I don't drive our cars hard.
Some European cars such as BMW's will wear out a set of rotors every time they need pads.
We're talking very little thermal mass here from a machined rotor to a non-machined. Hot rodders spin their rubber tires to generate heat for better road contact, so I don't see how a slightly cooler /slightly heavier rotor will stop a car quicker. It would be like spitting in the ocean and trying to measure the rise in sea level.