Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    many hard-core 4WD folks don't trust auto-front hubs. They want to "know" those hubs are engaged, and by doing so manually, they feel confident that's the case. With auto-hubs they feel there is a possibility that may not engage. Whether they're right or wrong, I don't know. Frankly, I don't like either system. I much prefer a full-time unit over any part-time unit.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << All these systems are 2-speed units, with a high a no low range. >>

    That should read:

    All these systems are 2-speed units, with a high and a low range.

    Bob
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I believe they are air controlled. So if you lose an air line, you may not have one, if not both wheels engaged. Lockers have a purpose, but most of us don't have the need.

    I have a trooper, and I actually go off-road several times a year. The torque on demand system is great, in the snow - forget about it. Though for deep stuff, particularly deep sand, I prefer the locking center differential over the viscous coupling, I use 4-low most of the time when on the beach. Both work, but the locking differential doesn't slip or have a computer switching traction around when it gets deep. Kind of the best of both worlds, full-time and part-time.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    Is the viscous coupling on SE models you referred to what Nissan calls limited slip differential?
  • guyfguyf Member Posts: 456
    Yes.
  • jmaterojmatero Member Posts: 253
    4wd means, simply, the front and rear wheels are locked. Some offer high and/or low ranges but 4wd means just that... the front and rear wheels are connected directly meaning you can't (shouldn't) drive it on dry surfaces.

    AWD in almost ALL cases are front wheel drive derived vehicles that can (in some way/shape/form) also transfer power to the rear end of the vehicle. Some of these systems are better than others. Audi has the best system and is similar to subaru where power is sent to all wheels at all times in varying degrees. Others, like the honda CR-v and others are FWD unless the front wheels slip in which case an amout of power can be sent to the rear. The difference between AWD and 4WD is that AWD can be driven on dry pavement (because of the center differential) and 4WD can't because of the direct connection. There ARE now combo versions (like the QX4 and explorer that allows 4WD AND AWD.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << 4wd means, simply, the front and rear wheels are locked. >>

    Not necessarily true. It means all 4 wheels are receiving power, but they're not necessarily locked. In part-time 4WD they are locked&#151;and they're only "really" locked if you have "locking differentials," that you have manually locked.

    In full-time 4WD there is an open center differential that allows for the front tires to turn at different speeds while turning, so they are definitely NOT locked.

    As to to most AWD systems being derived from FWD, again, not true. The AWD used on the Olds Bravada, GMC Denali, Cadillac Escalade, Mercury Mountaineer, and Porsche 911 are not FWD-derived. I'm sure there are others too.

    If you mean to say that the most popular AWDs are FWD-derived, then I would agree with you.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Stopped by one of the larger Honda dealers in my areas this afternoon. They said the Pilot will be in short supply (they're only getting 75 for the year!), and to expect ADMs to be the rule.

    Those being the first on the block to get one, likely aren't going to get any good deals...

    Bob
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    anonymous02
    What does that make the Pilot? A minivan/SUV hybrid? A repackaged station wagon?

    Pilot would be classified as a Light Truck/Wagon by EPA. Just like Suburban, Durango, Liberty, Explorer, X5, RX300, Caravan, Odyssey, CRV, Tahoe...

    rsholland
    FYI, VTM-4 also happens to be a Borg-Warner System.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    What is that?
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Caravan and Odyssey and CRV are considered Light Truck/Wagon by EPA?

    I would never have thought that!!!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    all minivans and SUVs, except the Subaru Forester, are considered lite trucks.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    VTM-4? I've heard of it, put I can't place it? Is that used on the Mitsubishi Montero?

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Additional Dealer Markup.
  • SpyponderSpyponder Member Posts: 128
    With all due respect, it's in your local dealer's best interest to tell you that Pilot's will be in short supply, with ADM the norm.

    And wouldn't 75 units be a fair amount for a half-year at one dealer? That seems like a lot to me, even for a larger dealer. Maybe not.

    I guess we'll see in the summer, but I think with the "internal" competition within Honda, such as the larger, more powerful CR-V, and an Odyssey that will now be in greater supply, any ADM that shows up on the Pilot will not last long.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I hope that's the case. But if history is any indicator, ADMs will be very popular with many dealers. This dealer is still putting ADMs on the Odyssey. Maybe when this new plant in Alabama is up running at full capacity, this situation will improve.

    The bottom line is: don't be surprised to see ADMs on these new Pilots&#151;and for some time to come. It's a sellers market, and the dealers know it.

    Bob
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    In MA, trucks have a "commercial" license plate, even if it is for personal, non-business use.

    Minivans and SUVs do not.
  • formy3kidsformy3kids Member Posts: 40
    Doesn't anyone have the measurements yet? The MDX is too small (absolutely no room in the third row) so now we are trying to decide between the GMC Envoy XL, the Odyssey and the Pilot.
  • stangeljstangelj Member Posts: 74
    Nope, have not seen any published yet.


    I've posted this link before, but I think it's relevant to the current discussion on types of AWD/4WD systems as it does a good job of describing the system on the Pilot.


    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=popmech_auto.story&STORY=/www/story/01-17-2002/0001650158&EDATE=THU+Jan+17+2002,+10

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks for the link:)

    Bob
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I had a regular stanza, but an altima se. The stanza was slightly better, both had similar goodyear eagle tires. Maybe there is more torque in the altima? It did go, and both wheels would spin (i.e. lsd).

    correction also, the trooper has an electromagnetic clutch that controls the torque on demand system, not a viscous coupling, I was thinking about this on the way home.

    Wow, a lot of posts generated from a new vehicle!
  • will4271will4271 Member Posts: 187
    Hey folks... the last time that I checked it's a Honda Pilot group...

    What gives???
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Just a little conversation drift; stay tuned, it'll drift back to other Pilot news and suppositions.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    doing some searching I came across an article I haven't seen before. It is a little dated Dec. 16th, but still interesting regarding production quantities and price.


    http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/673714.asp

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...no longer have to have commercial plates if they are for private use. Been at least 5 years.
  • djg4312djg4312 Member Posts: 9
    $28 to $35? What would be the diff between a loaded $35 Pilot and an MDX?
  • j_walkerj_walker Member Posts: 99
    Can someone explain to me why the NAV will cost $3K in the Pilot when it's just $2K in the MDX?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    VTM-4 (VTM: Variable Torque Management) is used in MDX, and will be used in Pilot as well. The following article provides a decent overview (of MDX and VTM-4)

    http://www.autofieldguide.com/columns/jeff/1000oc.html
  • theracoontheracoon Member Posts: 666
    From an Autoweek article:

    Honda COO Tom Elliott, speaking after the Pilot's unveiling, said the vehicle will be priced between $25,000 and $30,000.

    the link is too long to post, but you can find it here.
  • theracoontheracoon Member Posts: 666
    I too have seen that price on a dealer website. But not only did they have the words "PREVIEW ONLY" prominently displayed, but they had a listing for a "Security System Kit (LX only)" for the Pilot that showed a diagram of a CR-V.

    I think I'll wait until I see the official Honda prices.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    if it is around 35k with NAV and/or DVD player, that is still more affordable than the MDX. Can you have NAV and DVD in the same car? I don't think you can in the odyssey?
  • theracoontheracoon Member Posts: 666
    According to the http://www.hondanews.com site in the posting about the unveiling at the North American International Auto Show dated 01/06/02, the Pilot will have "optional Satellite-Linked Navigation System or Honda DVD Rear Entertainment System."


    Apparently not both.

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Is that like the one on the Trooper? (it mentioned SUV's from the 1990's in the article)
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    The trooper has the borg and warner "Torque on demand" system. It is a computer controlled electromagnetic clutch that transfers power to the front and rear. I am not sure of what "torque management" is specifically supposed to mean?
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    That is why (what) I was asking.

    Anyone?
  • mhenderson1mhenderson1 Member Posts: 164
    I'm 6' 6" and I'm looking for an SUV. I test drove the MDX and it seems to be comfortable enough, but I'm just not willing to pay that steep price. Does anyone think that the driver side measurements will be the same in the Pilot as in the MDX? Also does anyone else know of another SUV (smaller than the durango and expedition which could accomodate a tall person?
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I read the article. No, the new VTM is not like the Trooper. If that is what you are asking. The Acura SLX was Acura's first attempt at an SUV (it was an Isuzu with an "A" in the front), similar to the Passport (except it has an "H"). VTM is not related.

    I didn't piece your question and article together. You should read more about the VTM system. It is Acura's way of delivering power to the rear wheels in a front wheel drive vehicle. It seems very effective, and with the locking rear very functional. However, if we go back to the whole off-road and consumers need thing, a traditional setup, with a transfer case in the middle of the transmission, solid axles, RWD based vehicles are probably more bullet proof when it comes down to it.
  • brad_22brad_22 Member Posts: 154
    The upcoming Pilot looks like a clone of the Highlander. Any one know how the two stack up against each other? I figured it wouldn't be long before Honda put out a competitor to the HL...
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    http://www.motortrend.com/jan02/pilot/pilot_f.html

    sounds great, take a look, if out in june then expect more car mag articles.
  • mark189mark189 Member Posts: 107
    The Pilot is supposed to be a couple of inches taller. Of course that doesn't guarantee more head or leg room, but at least makes it likely.

    The Highlander doesn't have third row seats. May offer them when the RX300 is redesigned because they're adding a third row. Also, the Highlander is ugly, while the Pilot is only plain.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    It looks like someone took a CRV and put it in the photocopier at 140%.

    A couple questions:

    It says it can take a 48" piece of plywood. Think that is that also the 96" length?

    Where do you suppose the spare is hiding? Underneath is not good for trail clearance, but inside takes from cargo room. The old 1970's station wagons had room inside for a full size spare AND a stack of plywood sheets. The spare was either in a well, or to the side, behind the wheeel well with a corresponding luggage space on the other side.

    I wonder what size tires it will have or be able to take. 31X10.5 seems like the starting point for any off-road adventures (clearance). The engine (240HP?) seems like it should handle some decent size tires.
  • spartanman2spartanman2 Member Posts: 61
    Just received my March issue of Motor Trend today.
    "First Look" article just rehashes the same things all ready discussed in this forum. However, MSRP estimates are a bit higher than has been batted around; As mentioned in an earlier post, per Motor Trend price estimates are to range from $28,000-36,000. That would put the high end Pilot EX version w/leather in the same price range as the lower level MDX.....Hmmm. A bit disappointed, I was hoping it would come in a few thousand dollars lower.
  • orcinmanorcinman Member Posts: 24
    Just when you thought it was safe to pronounce the Accord as "Honda's most boring offer"...

    The Pilot loses, in my book, on looks alone. This is Japanese conservatism of styling taken way too far.

    It looks like a CRV clone with extra cladding and a third row. BORING.

    No thanks; I'll take a Terracan if it ever comes over.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    I'm disappointed in those prices as well. I'm not surprized by them, though. Given that it offers almost everything that the Highlander does, I was surprized when I saw the original estimates.
  • mark189mark189 Member Posts: 107
    As for pricing, Honda has said $25,000 to $30,000.

    As for styling, sure the styling is plain. That&#146;s probably an effort to provide more interior space in relation to exterior size, which is a practical approach. It may even be dated. However, the technology is not.

    Here&#146;s the specs., taken from a Honda press release. They're anything but boring:

    Advanced 3.5-liter, 24-valve, all-aluminum VTEC V-6 240 hp. engine

    Five-speed electronically controlled transmission

    VTM-4 (Variable Torque Management 4WD) full-time, four-wheel drive system.

    Best-in-class interior space with theatre-style seating for up to eight passengers

    Widest wheel track in its class

    60/40 split folding second- and third-row seats that convert to accommodate up to eight passengers and a wide variety of cargo items.

    Flat cargo floor, giving the Pilot the largest and most versatile passenger and cargo carrying capability in its class.

    Five-star safety performance.

    Add Honda&#146;s reliability, and you won&#146;t find any competition at $25,000.

    To criticize styling because you would have liked better, is understandable. But, to entirely dismiss this vehicle on styling alone is to miss the big picture. The MDX excels in performance, versatility, reliability, and safety. And this is an MDX with an eighth seat as a bonus, for a $10,000 discount.

    If you want to spend more for styling, or accept less reliability or performance just to get pretty styling, go right ahead. Meanwhile, there&#146;ll be a long waiting list of buyers with different priorities.
  • j_walkerj_walker Member Posts: 99
    What are the odds that the Pilot comes with color-matching mud flaps? I certainly hope so.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    anonymous02
    It looks like someone took a CRV and put it in the photocopier at 140%.

    Not surprised. Much like Trail Blazer versus Suburban, or Explorer versus Expedition.

    Where do you suppose the spare is hiding? Underneath is not good for trail clearance, but inside takes from cargo room.
    I'm guessing it would be similar to MDX, and will likely have similar minimum ground clearance (8.1 inch) as well.

    I wonder what size tires it will have or be able to take. 31X10.5 seems like the starting point for any off-road adventures (clearance). The engine (240HP?) seems like it should handle some decent size tires.
    I believe the drivetrain will be the same as that in Odyssey (hence, 240 HP, 5-speed automatic) but as far as tires go, since this vehicle is not meant to be a serious off roader, it will likely wear 235 rubber (same as MDX) on 16 inch rims (as in base MDX). The tire selection would be for road use as well.

    spartanman2
    Motor Trend price estimates are to range from $28,000-36,000. That would put the high end Pilot EX version w/leather in the same price range as the lower level MDX.....Hmmm. A bit disappointed, I was hoping it would come in a few thousand dollars lower.

    Unless Honda is offering only AWD models, I will be surprised to see the base price any higher than $26K for 2WD base to $32K with leather, NAV (or RES) AWD model. That would leave $3K difference on the lower side (CRV EX) and same on the higher side (base MDX), and compete directly with Toyota Highlander, Buick Rendezvous, Ford Explorer etc. Motor Trend estimates is not official anyway.
  • SpyponderSpyponder Member Posts: 128
    You want boring styling? Check out the new MB G-500: http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=G500


    Now THAT'S boring! The Pilot has this baby beat on styling by a long margin. It looks like the reincarnation of the original Isuzu Trooper.


    At least MB has dropped the price. At $73K, the G-Class is much more affordable than the G-wagen it is obviously styled after.

  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    That thing is hardly new.
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