Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

bill01923

I usually get about 18.5 mpg overall. If I drive mostly highway it'll get 20.5 to as high as 22. This is over 10K so far.
I can't speak about towing with it as yet.

thumper13

My 10 day old Pilot has the gas sloshing problem some of you have referred to. Mine is accompanied by various slapping and thumping noises following each and every braking maneuver. EVEN THE RADIO DOESN'T DROWN IT OUT! I do not believe that every Pilot sounds like this(although the dealer tells me it does). Has any one had any luck getting this resolved? The dealer tells me that anything I do to quiet the noise would void Honda's warranty. I think some of us got stuck with faulty cars. The dealer also refuses to find me one that doesn't make this noise, because it's not considered a "defect".I doubt that this problem is going to go away on its own! Help! This is making me miss my old Suburban!

rossdm

I've had my Pilot for two months and have not heard any sloshing noises at all.

sjwsmw

Just took delivery of my Sandstone EX and I have heard the sloshing noise mentioned. I think it is at most, slightly annoying, not anything major. It's dissappointing that this design flaw got through Honda's typically sophisticated car designs. I haven't looked, but my guess is the gas tank is closer to the middle of the vehicle(driver)due to the third row configuration taking the rear space.
I recall reading in the Pilot threads about other 'thumps' and bumping noises but their cause escapes me.

robr2

...IIRC the Pilot, MDX, and Odyssey all use the same gas tank design. It is a short, wide, flat tank. I hear it in my Ody if I try, but it "went" away to my ears.

markjenn

I believe the Tribute is rated at 2,000 lbs towing, vs. the Pilot's 3500 lbs (4500 for a boat). And regardless of ratings, the key thing is towing is percentage of total vehicle weigh represented by the trailer. The Pilot is nearly a 1K lbs (!) heavier and this moves it into a whole different class for towing.

- Mark

toca

I hear it as well, but only if I press hard on the brakes. I also can hear it in my Subaru if I jam on my breaks. I wouldn't necessarily call it a design flaw, but an annoyance. I think if you look at it from a safety perspective, it's better to have the tank in the middle of the vehicle then in the rear. I'm not a gas tank guy, but aside from placing the tank in the rear the only alternatives would be a "quieter" tank (if there is such a thing) or more insulation to deaden the noise. I also believe the MDX has the same issue.

fedlawman

"Towing package: Class II towing preparation; frame-mounted trailer-hitch receiver with 3500-lb capacity; engine-oil cooler; tow bar; trailer wiring harness."

You said, "the key thing is towing is percentage of total vehicle weigh represented by the trailer."

Markjenn, you may be right...I relly don't know anything about towing. To me, logic dictates that towing is more a factor of available engine torque and frame strength. Why else would the Jeep Grand Cherokee, which weighs 500 lbs less than the Pilot, be rated to tow 1500 lbs more than the Pilot?

paisan

Generally it's the Frame-strength combined with the weight of the vehicle. 99.9% of the time the engine has almost zero to do with the towing capacity of a vehicle. The other question is who sets the towing capacity? It's the manufacturers themselves. A higher towing capacity could be the result of a more liberal legal department, and not necessarily more "ability" For instance, my Trooper has a rating of 5,000lbs towing in the US. The same exact vehicle that is sold in Australia gets a 7200lb towing capacity w/o any mechanical changes. This is because Isuzu/Holden in Australia doesn't feel that they'll be sued by consumers by people towing 7200 if they have an accident....

So make sure to take the towing capacities with a grain of salt and always make sure to know what your vehicle is comfortable towing, rather than strictly going by the #s published.

-mike

sbcooke

What about transmission gearing and braking capabilities of the vehicle.

paisan

Braking isn't an issue, all manufacturers require trailer brakes on trailers over 1000-1500lbs depending on manufacturer. Gearing can help, but that's driveline related, basically with good gearing a 4-banger can weigh in equal to some V6s depending on gearing. For safety though weight of the tow vehicle and the wheelbase and chassis strength are the major factors.

-mike

abc246

I would have to disagree "99.9% of the time the engine has almost zero to do with the towing capacity of a vehicle." This is not true.

I own a Silverado and the tow rating is DIRECTLY tied to the engine installed. I am sure the Escape can tow more with the V-6. Toyota also increases tow ratings with the V-6 option and so on.

I am thinking of buying a midsize SUV to replace my 99 Blazer. I have used the Blazer many times to tow, but now I have the Silverado, so the Pilots rating could be OK for me. From what I have read there is no way to keep the transmission in 4th gear for towing, as in the MDX. This is of real concern to me.

markjenn

On the Tribute, 3500-lbs is probably the capacity of the hitch, not the vehicle. 4-cyl Tributes are rated for 1K, V6's 2K.

If the Pilot has the design where there is no D4 position, I don't understand why they do this. I'm driving a ML320 right now, which is a nice towing package with body-on-frame, low range transfer case, and 5K capacity. It has a simple design where from the D position, you can rock the shifter sideways to manually select any gear, including 4th. I find I don't have to use it much because it has some sophisticated grade logic that once it selects a lower gear on a hill, it will generally hold it until the hill flattens, so there is very little hunting. But I do pop it into D4 in rolling terrain just to avoid extra shifts. (If I trusted MB products outside the warranty period, I wouldn't be looking at the Pilot.)

- Mark

paisan

Well obviously you are gonna have a vastly different towing rate from say a 4cylinder to say an 8. But I've been towing for a long time, and most of the hitch and towing people I've spoken to, all relate it back to the chassis, wheelbase, and tow vehicle weight, although there is the misconception that by simply adding a bigger engine will increase the safe towing capacity.

-mike

docevil

Pilot only has an auto-off feature which means, as you all know, the lights turn off after you lock the car and comes back on when you unlock. I guess that's sort of a poor man's version of twillight sensor. I personally wouldn't want the headlights on all the time the car is driven since that would lead to premature bulb burnout.

abc246

I am sure these hitch and tow people you talk to design the tow systems for GM, Honda, Toyota, ect. You are misleading and not providing accurate information. The engine can safely INCREASE the tow rating of a vehicle. Please do some research before you post! I am not sure what the problem is here. Tow ratings are posted by the manufactures, not hitch people. Manufacture tow ratings, in most every case are related to the engine installed. All you have to do is read what you wrote, starting from the first sentence!

paisan

Where is your info coming from? How many years/miles towing experience do YOU have? Why don't you do some research and link us to some of YOUR facts?

-mike

jay_24

Using the lights every day all the time may shorten its life, but probably not significantly. I leave my lights on in my Subaru and GM vehicals without burning out a buld in over 2 years.

Towing has lots of issues. example a Chevy 1500 and 1500HD have different tow rating for the same engine. It all depends on the weakest link (engine, tranny, brakes ect...) But without a good wheelbase and frame/structure you still shouldn't tow much weight.

-j

jay_24

Why is a 4500lb boat the same as a 3500lb trailer? Wind resistance? I doubt it. a 4500lb boat is bigger than a flatbed trailer with a load.

--j

paisan

My guess is that the 4500lb for "boat" is really 4500lb for "boat-like" items. Which if you have a 4500lb flatbed trailer with the frontal area of a boat, you'll be fine v. a camper trailer of 4500 with a frontal area significantly greater.

-mike

canwin1

It appears to me Honda intentionally made the Pilot plain and did not offer certain features so it would be less competive with the Acura MDX. Their top model EX-L only has a single CD player and a sun roof is not offered. The CR-V offers these on their top model. Also the dash center (radio and heating controls area) is plain and ugly compared to the MDX. The front and grill are unattractive and plain at best. For little or no extra money this vehicle could be more attractive and still be conservative. I am very high on Honda in general but dissappointed in that regard. The new loaded Accord is very nice and was not held back in that way. I have a 2002 CR-V EX-L and a 2002 Civic. The nearest Acura dealer is four hours away. My next vehicle may not be a Honda as I will consider the competition as these intentional styling and feature holdbacks give an edge in that respect to competitors. Just my oppinion. What do you think?

markjenn

Honda says that they allow higher weight boats because they are more aerodynamic. I think we can infer from this that Honda feels the drivetrain is up to higher weight towing, but they are concerned about vehicle handling. Frankly, I'd feel a bit nervous about towing a 4500-lb boat with a Pilot.

- Mark

toca

What do I think? IMO, I think the market will dictate what Honda will or won't do. If Honda feels they are losing sales due to a lack of features or customer concerns about style, then they will need to make changes. If sales and market share increase, then we will continue to see status quo.....

my $.02

cfocfo

Hope you never need your air bags on those Pilots !

redline65

canwin1 - I think the same thing. That's why I bought an Envoy XL SLT with sunroof and driver and passenger seats that are heated, have 8-way power, and power lumbar. Not to mention two driver memory settings for the seats, mirrors, and climate control. BOSE audio and rain sensing wipers too. I like the Pilot, but it is too lacking in features. And an MDX would have cost me about $7000 more than my Envoy.

docevil

I think if Honda had put more features in the Pilot then the price would have to be close to the MDX's, which would make the Pilot kind of redundant. I think the Pilot's purpose in life is to serve as a stripper MDX.

avcii2

I agree. CNNfn had an article on smart purchases on autos back a few months ago and said it was wiser to buy the Pilot if you were in the market for an MDX but didn't wish to shell out all of the cash for said MDX. I have been very happy with my seven year old Integra GS-R and decided to purchase another Acura. I looked at the MDX, but metro NY dealers were tacking on $4,000 to MSRP before even sitting down at the dealing table, placing the one I wanted at $41,000 and change. I did not want to go that high, so I looked at the Freelander (Land Rover) and wasn't happy with what I would get for $32,000 (loaded). I waited for the Pilot EX-L and I am happy with my purchase. My wife and I call it the "minimally luxurious SUV". I wouldn't have been interested in the sun roof (had one, no big deal, but I am looking to buy an S2000 in the next two years to satisfy my open roof needs, though), the six cd changer, the NAV, or the DVD anyway, so I guess I coudn't be any more compatible with what Honda targeted.

stuartc

Note: I also posted this in the Problems discussion section. I hope that isn't a no-no.

Hi all:

First of all, I LOVE my Pilot. Much more than I thought I would. I love the way it drives. Very quick and nimble. Also, I've really learned to appreciate the simplicity of the instrumentation layout and roominess of the interior.

I've had my Pilot about 4 months and have about 5000 miles on her, all trouble-free until a few days ago when we began experiencing some extended below freezing weather here in the Boston area.

Sometimes I park my Pilot outside overnight. The last two mornings when it's been parked outside overnight, the Pilot started without problem, but then the gas pedal is totally non-responsive in terms of giving gas to the car. I push on the gas pedal, the pedal depresses, but no gas is getting to the engine. The gas pedal is like this until I let the car warm up for a period of time.

My driveway is sort of steep. The first time this happened, I started the Pilot, put it in Reverse and backed down into the street (not realizing that gravity was causing the car to move, not the gas pedal). I then put it in Drive and pushed on the gas pedal. Nothing happened. I pushed again. Nothing. Fortunately, no cars were coming down the road, as I sat helplessly in the middle of the road for a few minutes until the gas pedal became responsive (normal). Kinda scary.

Anyway, has anyone else experienced this non-responsive gas pedal, especially folks in very cold climates ? I wonder if this is somehow related to the starting problems other folks are reporting in the Problems & Solutions discussion area ?

I'll be calling my dealer tomorrow. I'll let you know what they say.

-stuartc

brian125

i'm waiting del for my pilot exl. build date is feb, 1st. every pilot i have seen with leather i have noticed the leather on the seats are not tighly molded around the seat. i have noticed some posts on the seating.does the leather get worse AFTER 4,5 ,6 MONTHS. I THINK IF ENOUGHT people large there complaints about this eye sore maybe something can be done .. any thoughts/ idea's?

randpall3863

My girlfriend and I were moving up from a minivan to an SUV with the same seating capacity. We first checked a Ford Explorer. It had a full shiftable 5-speed automatic transmission. But the V6 one we test-drove lacked sufficient power. So, we checked and test-drove a Pilot. It has the same seating capacity as the minivan with better traction, thanks to its full-time 4WD. But as mentioned, it lacked a rear window.

  We were able to apply the brake to slow it down when coming downhill. We took our foot off the brake. It maintained the same speed. It gets great gas mileage. The ones with leather seats are available heated. But it lacked more than most SUV's in its size.

  Its roof rack did not have standard beams like the other SUV's we checked. They were optional. It lacked fog lights which were not available. And no sunroof or moonroof was available.

  While the EX's came with a standard power driver's seat, it was not available with a power passenger side seat.

  Also, while the front and second row seats were real leather, the 3rd row seat appeared to be some cheap imitation. Needless to say, we did not get it. Plus, we will not get a new car in its first model year of production.

  It also lacked a shiftable 4th gear to fully match its 5-speed automatic transmission. My suggestion is to see if 2004's are improved. I hope this helps. There is more.

  The EX does come standard with both cassette and CD. The LX is not available with cassette. Let's face it. Most of us still have cassettes as well as CD's. But I can not see paying the EX price for that!

  Also, the LX is not available with at least a power driver's side seat. My suggestion is to hold off on buying a 2003 and see if the 2004's are improved. It's all I have on this.

docevil

If I were a betting man, I'd say the Pilot would not get a significant update/refreshing until the 2005 model year.

bowke28

the honda dilemma is the fact that there is a comparable "sister" vehicle in the acura line. they can put lots of equipment on the pilot, but if they put too much, it makes the MDX redundant for $4-6k more. also, check other SUVs that are equipped THE SAME, and you will see a significant price difference in the pilot's favor.

if you want better material in the 3rd row, buy an ex cloth and have aftermarket leather installed. you can get the dealer to do this for the same $1500 it costs for the factory option, and you can even add heated seats for a couple hundred more while they are at it.

stuartc

I've not had the problem since my posting. The last two mornings were very cold (14 this morning) and she started with no problem and the gas pedal behaved normally.

I called my dealer and spoke with a service rep. He had not heard of this problem. Since I can't reproduce it, he suggested that I bring it in if I have the problem again and they will try to reproduce it. Makes sense to me.

barrye2

This is a nusiance problem, but when I get my black Pilot washed, water seems to collect behind the rear spoiler. It then leaks out slowly in the middle and on the sides for a few miles. This leaves streaking which I later wipe down but it seems to defeat the purpose of getting the vehicle washed. Am I the only one with this problem or maybe the only one it annoys? By the way, I love the vehicle. I have noticed the starting problem everyone is talking about. I assumed that it was me and not the Pilot. Now I know better.

bowke28

this is the issue you will always have with a black vehicle. they look the best when they are clean, but it takes alot more work to get them there.

any car with a spoiler, moonroof visor, window visor, bug deflector, etc. will have leaking water after a wash, as its almost impossible to soak up water where you cant reach it.

matt53209

Does anyone have an opinion on the fog lights offered as an option with the Pilot? Do you need them or do the headlights already light up the road with enough light?

brian125

i am waiting del. of my black pilot. i had 2 other black vehicles. they look great when cleaned and maintain.but its very hard to keep clean if you dont stay on top of them. my neighbor next store buys very expensive mercedes, and trucks. after he washes them he takes out his 200 mph leaf blower and dries the car, then he lightly wipes car down with a synetic chamie cloth. i have been doing it for years. i highly recommend it.you wont get as many streaks after your wash. also try z5 wax by zaino brother its the best stuff onthe market. chek out there web site.

sjwsmw

According to the paperwork, the EX is supposed to have 7 speakers including the subwoofer. OK, found the two front and two back on the doors plus the sub. But does anyone know where the other two are located?

I hadn't thought twice about it, but notice that on the rear liftgate, there are two holes with covers that appear to be where speakers 'should' be.

Thanks!

bowke28

 2 speakers are in the front window area of the dash, 2 in the front door panels, and 2 in the rear door panels.

kipk

Got the New Pilot this past Friday.

I'm certainly enjoying it, so far.

Questions:

Approximately how many gallons of fuel remain in the tank, when the "Fuel Reminder" light comes on?
Owners manual doesn't help. Just says, the light is a reminder to get fuel soon.

What kind of gas mileage are you folks getting, or what should I expect, to get. I realize the EPA numbers are 17/22. Is that fairly accurate? Did you notice any difference from when it was new, to when it had a few thousand miles?

I've got a pretty light foot. I traded a 98 Short Bed, Dodge Ram P/U,(5.9, automatic) 3:55 gear, HD TOW Package, for the pilot. It Consistently got 13-14 around town, and 18.2-18.8 on trips with mostly Xway driving. On the road, I mostly drive 5 MPH over posted speed limits, with a maximum speed of 70 mph. Around town, I usually give enough throttle to get it moving, then wait for the desired speed to eventually arrive. Exceptions would be when merging. Then it gets as much throttle as necessary.

I don't "RUSH" to get there. But I don't intend to get rear ended either.

Thanks,
Kip

brews1

I have 3275 miles now and have no real problems. I checked the gas mileage on the last tank which was mostly around town with a little highway thrown in with outside temperatures in the teens and single digits and measured 17.8 mpg. This includes letting the car warm up for about five minutes at times outside until the inside gets warm enough to inhabit.

joew5

What grade of gas do you use? I am in Chicago and am getting 12 mpg in the city and 22 on the highway. I've checked everything to see what the issue is with city driving, taken it in, honda mechanics couldn't figure it out. I use regular gasoline.

by the way when the fuel light comes on there are approximately 2.7 gallons left

brews1

When I get gas I use Citgo when my wife gets it it is either Mobil or Texaco. But in any case, its always Regular 87 octane. My wife drives the car most of the time and is a conservative driver. In any event, when you say "city" do you mean a big city? I am in a rural type area north of NY city and to me "city" driving is side roads with some traffic lights and very little stop and go. When we go into New York city that is a totally different "city" environment and in that situation it would not surprise me if the Pilot only managed to get 12 MPG. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, it depends on what the definition of city is.

rerenov8r

Unfortunately, the very low temperatures we've been experiencing in Chicago ARE hurting your fuel econ.

Even if you don't deliberately leave the car to "warm it up" the time that the computer will spend using extra fuel to keep the car up to operating temp IS higher.

The tires may have also lost some pressure, so you have more rolling resistence. Ditto for viscocity of lube. Factor in a few icey patches & some VTM engagement, too.

Heck, even the density of thhe gasoline itself is higher in cold weather. You are sqirting a bit more fuel into the cylinder with every SPRITZ of the fuel injectors...

That said, what is your OVERALL AVERAGE SPEED and MOVING AVERAGE when you are getting that 12 MPG? I would guess your OAS is under 30 MPH and your MA is probably 40+. That means you are spending ALOT of time ACCELERATING, that really KILLS your MPG.

joew5

I live in Chicago (lakeview) so it is stop and go all the time. I have no idea what my speed average is but it's not a lot, maybe 20-30. It still seems like such a huge difference between city and highway and others were reporting there city mileage as 15-16 but I don't know if there using the Clinton version of CITY or not. Me, I live in the city.

I know the gas mixture changes in winter and the temps have been low but still...

Anybody do any tests between 87 and 93 octane to see the difference?

bowke28

honda recommends AGAINST using premium. i dont think using it once or twice would hurt anything, but dont make it a habit. you can wear out your rings quicker using it consistently.

toca

The winter blend of gas really cuts into gas mileage. I'm down 3 or 4 miles per gallon on average with my subaru depending on what type of driving I'm doing.

If you're getting 22 highway with the winter blend, I think you're ok. I would venture to say most folks "city" driving is not in the center of NYC, LA, CHI, etc. but more along the lines of suburban america with the occasional traffic light and not one every city block.

markjenn

Where'd you hear this? All I've ever read about octane is that it controls detonation and that using higher octane than necessary wastes money. I doubt it has any serious long-term engine wear consequences.

- Mark

sbcooke

I used to live in lakeview...anyway, my old nissan altima, which got 33+ on the highway would get 15-20 around town, in real suburban driving I used to get 25 around town. Anyone driving an SUV in that part of Chicago shouldn't expect more than 10 MPG.

Talk about stop and go...it used to take me 25 minutes to drive to sportmart, I could walk there in 5.

kipk

Gas mileage:

 My "around town" does consist of some back roads, mixed with traffic lights. There are 11 lights between my home and work. I will generally get stopped by half of them, but, usually don't have to wait for a "2nd" green one, to allow me to go through. So in that 16 miles I might "WAIT" a max of 8-12 minutes at lights.
 Pilots first tank yielded slightly over 16 mpg. It wasn't really "FULL" when I picked it up at the dealer. There was 43 miles on the clock, and the needle was slightly below the full line. This tank has 70 miles on it, and the needle is still barely touching the full mark. Judging by that, it should calculate closer to 17+ on this one. In reality, that isn't too bad, considering the weight of the Pilot and the power available. My wife's 95 Maxima gets about 21 under similar conditions. The Maxima requires Premium fuel at 20 cents more per gallon, isn't rated for towing, isn't nearly as heavy, is rougher riding, won't carry as many people, and is much better aerodynamically designed.

 The math says, it will cost about $50 more to drive the Pilot 10,000 miles, vs the Maxima. That's considering the Maxima getting 4 additional miles per gallon, but costing 20 cents more per gallon. ($1.29 vs $1.49) I can live with that. :>)

 OCTANE:
 It is my understanding that the purpose of "OCTANE" is to actually slow down the combustion rate (speed) of the fuel. In days of yore, Gas had LEAD added, to Raise the octane level. Lead doesn't burn real well, but it served well to slow down the explosion time. A car requiring Premium fuel, had the timing set at 10-12 degrees before TDC. This allowed the slower burning Premium to have more time to reach its max, before the piston got to TDC. (Top Dead Center). Cars requiring Regular fuel, had timing set more in the area of 3-6 degrees before TDC. The lower octane regular, flashes and burns quicker. Again, in days of yore, if we put Regular in an car designed for Premium, we would get "Spark Rattle" or "Valve Ping". That was from the quicker burning Regular reaching its potential before the piston reached the top of it's stroke. The explosion was actually attempting to drive the piston down (Backward), while it was still moving up on it's compression stroke. That is pretty hard on the rod bearings, rings, and piston tops.

 Todays engines have "Knock Sensors", that "Hear" pinging, and instruct the computer to "Retard" the spark timing to compensate, if Regular is put into a car requiring premium. It does a decent job of controling the ping, but performance and mileage will suffer. Putting Premium in a car designed for Regular reacts another way. The system is designed to Ignite the fuel and have the explosion, max, at a certain time, when the piston is at the top of its stroke. Premium burns slower, so the piston (of the "Regular" engine) has already gone over the top and already moving down, when the fuel reached its maximum energy level. In effect, the longer lasting explosion is ,kind of, following and pushing the piston, rather than "Driving" or "Slaming" it at the proper time. Result, is that, the Premium gas gets about the same MPG, at 10-15% higher cost. It won't hurt the engine, but it doesn't help it either.

 Valve timing, compression, manifold designs, etc., all figure into the picture. These manufacturers spend tons of money figuring the best way to go, for their particular engine designs. With a Pilot, Honda recomments using Premium fuel "IF" towing over 3500 pounds. Apparently they want to slow down burn rate for whatever reasons. Otherwise, they recommend Regular! I don't have to understand their reasoning, I will just follow their recommendations!

 Tow packages: I strongly recommend a tow package, whether you tow or not. Reason is, the "EXTRA" transmission oil cooler. Heat from towing or heavy traffic, is extremely hard on transmissions. It is probably the #1 killer of them, other than abuse. If you don't want the expense or looks of the receiver, ask about just having the Cooler installed.

 Another thought. Get that transmission "Flushed" and "ALL" the fluid replaced, every 30,000 miles. It will cost about $130, and well worth the investment. Normal transmission drain and refills, only replace about 25% of the fluid, leaving 75% of the old stuff in it! That would be like only changing 1 quart of motor oil, instead of "ALL" 4-5 quarts of it.

 Ramblings over!

 BTW, thanks for input on milage and amount of fuel left, when the "reminder" light comes on.

 Thanks, Kip