My new Pilot makes a noise when I start the engine. This is the 2nd time I heard it. Can't be certain but I believe the 1st and 2nd noises were different. Hard to describe the sounds but was wondering if other folks heard similar noises. Just worried that something is wrong. Maybe this is normal? Thanks
We got nailed with about 26" of snow over the weekend and I'm impressed with how the Pilot handled it. My question is as I'm trying to plow through 12" or more of snow at about the vehicle's limit to handle it, how hard is this on the components, especially the 4WD system. Normally in my old Explorer I'd be in low range at this point. I've got to think this is much harder on the vehicle than towing even 5,000 lbs which is already over the recommended limit. Also got stuck a couple of times and it took a major effort of locking in the 4wd system and rocking the car. Just hope I haven't shaved years off the life of this thing. Any insights from the more mechanically inclined out there?
I had my MDX out this weekend too. The one thing I noticed that seemed "bad" was he stuff hitting the bottom of it and the suspension. A big chunk of something could hit a brake line, cut something or break a component. The suspension is fairly exposed as opposed to a truck designed to be taken off-road that might have more armor and brake lines tucked away.
try using the vtm-4 lock. it automatically shuts off around 19 or 20 mph...but if you're driving more than that in over 12" of snow, i think you are overdoing it anyway.
Also got stuck a couple of times and it took a major effort of locking in the 4wd system and rocking the car.
I think he was already using the VTM-4. Anyway, I just don't think the Pilot was built to handle 12"+ snow. So it's no big deal to get stuck in this storm. It's more important and impressive that he can get out of it in his Pilot without any outside help.
To offer this thread my impressions of my first 1500 Pilot miles:
Disclosure: First SUV, but prior experience with Honda (Odyssey and Accord, both favorable). Also ownership experience with Audi, Saab, MB, Nissan, Subaru
Purchase price -- paid MSRP, beige/tan EX-L, taken out of dealer inventory allocation, 6 weeks out (took quotes from 4 other dealers in the interim, no variances, and no matching beige inventory offered).
I really enjoy driving this vehicle! On an extended trip through lots of elevation and weather changes, the Pilot never loses its poise. Positives: - very stable in crosswinds - MPG is 22-23 over several tanks, mostly highway. - very quiet at 75mph (occasional slight vibration sound on driver window) - Drivers seat very comfortable - Lots of room (duh!) and easier to deal with packing/loading/schlepping vs a car.
Other Comments: - Mechanically, no significant issues. I don't miss a sunroof or heated seats (which I have in other vehicles). - Front seat leather -- i do wonder about it's quality over time... Seems looser already... - Conveniences and cubby-holes are very good, would prefer some rubber lining in various spots
The driving's the thing with the Pilot... I drove Murano briefly and preferred its styling vs Pilot, but was more expensive and didn't drive as well, in my opinion.
I tried to put my Pilot through some SNOW paces over the past few days as we got close to 1.5'... I also have a '91 4WD 4Runner (original owner) so I have some basis for comparison. Pilot AWD system (in D) is NOT good in the deepest snow but it has very good traction with VTM engaged (but VTM gets occasionally disengaged during shifts between R to 2 when rocking). Its fancier electronics cause it to slide less but it is questionable how effective it is at the limits. 4Runner can spin its wheels and that makes handling a bit trickier but then it is capable of more things with a skilled driver at the helm. The lack of 4L in the Pilot was not an issue but the stock GY tires are rather weak for these conditions. However, I have regularly used 4L on my 4Runner (off-road in the SouthWest or deep snow) because the gearing of 4H is simply too high in the roughest stuff.
Interestingly, Pilot is also much better in lighter snow conditions. I agree with some concerns posted earlier: lack of underbody protection. On the flip side, I would not worry about snow hitting the underside but rocks, ice and semi rubber (at highway speeds) are more of an issue. I have NEVER had to worry about the underbody of my 4Runner and it has a lot more clearance all around.
Speaking of ground clearance, everywhere I've seen it listed for the Pilot it's 8" but I noticed Consumer Reports recent test lists it at 5.5" and notes its "low" ground clearance in the narrative. Did CR screw up the figure or do they measure from the suspension's low point or something other than what the manufacturer uses? Noticed all the other SUV's in the same comparison had at least 8". Seems this could also affect driving in deep snow.
Doesn't count certain items when it measures IIRC. I think they measure at the rear center diffy, which is hidden way up high because of the Indy rear suspension. The muffler pipe dips below this IIRC.
I think the low point of the suspension might actually be 5.5 inches near the wheels.
Not all SUV's are measured like this. For example, my Trooper says 8.3 inches, that is the low point under the truck (center differential skid plate and rear differential), actually the rest of it is higher.
My main concern driving in deep snow is that a huge ice ball could hit something and cause a problem, especially at the low points (not that it will keep me from going out and having fun). The MDX/Pilot has minimal skid plates/armor underneath, not that typical snow driving needs it, but an ice ball at 30 MPH could do damage.
My $0.02 is that a Pilot should be driven off-road and in deep snow more like an AWD wagon than a 4WD truck. Underneath the SUV body, you've basically got an AWD Odyssey chassis.
I am considering dumping our 1996 Isuzu Trooper after a $5,500 engine repair in November.
My preliminary considerations are: Toyota Sequoia, Honda Pilot, Used Mercedes E320 Wagon 4-matic. I am leaning towards the Pilot in part because I have a Honda S2000 and have had a positive experience with the dealership. Questions for Pilot owners:
Price target? Appears form browsing these posts that not much under MSRP is possible. What is the best deal you have gotten / heard of? My dealer will likely match anything that is legitimate.
Complaints? Give me the 2-3 things you dislike the most about the vehicle, now that you own one. Any reports of problems with the 5-speed auto transmission used in the Pilot (I know from other boards that transmission failure has been a problem with TL, CL and Accords).
MPG? Fortunately, we don't put a ton of miles on the Trooper, but 13 mpg city and 16-17 mpg highway was no fun at the pump. Especially with projections of $3/gallon prices possible by summer. What are you actually getting with the Pilot?
Capabilities? We don't do much "off-roading" but we did get 24" of snow in DC last week and out Trooper handled it better than Jeep Grand Cherokees and the like. We also travel the PA & New England snow belt often and want a capable vehicle. The Trooper, with all its faults, has "real" 4wd tires and ground clearance. It looks to me like some SUV's - and perhaps the Pilot - have "car" tires and limited clearance. Great for fair weather driving and better gas milage, but maybe not for rough weather. At that point, the E320 Wagon with 4-matic creeps into the picture. Friends have one and it has been both bulletproof and gets nearly 30 mpg on highway trips. It costs a boatload, but maintains it's value exceptionally well.
Other vehicles you compared with? We'd like to go to 7/8 passenger seating, but probably don't need the overall size of the Sequoia.
I have both a Trooper and an MDX. There are some differences between the Pilot/MDX, but I think the overall package is close enough that I might be able to add some insight.
If you are looking for something that can handle 8-10" of snow with ease, has great highway gas mileage (I get 24+ on the highway), OK around town (I get 16-17) then the Pilot is for you. I think the VTM system is capable enough.
The Trooper is just as roomy from a first 2 row seating perspective, and cargo space is a push.
If you want to tackle difficult terrain, stick with the Trooper. I tested the MDX out in this last storm, and it did really well, however I am much more confident hitting over a foot of snow in my Trooper...although that is really only for fun, the roads here never got more than 12" on them due to being plowed at least once during the storm and I am sure the MDX could have tackled anything on the roads here.
The MDX/Pilot is a wide/big vehicle. I passed on the sequoia because of the size, the MDX is smaller, but still has a pretty wide stance.
I love my MDX and am super happy with the purchase. I don't think you will be unhappy with a Pilot.
I'm not an owner (yet), but I keep pace with these boards. The three most common complaints I see are:
1. No sunroof 2. Sloshing gas tank 3. Creaking suspension
I got through the same storm up here in MA. We got 22-27", but the roads were cleared semi-regularly. I got through a few roads (my own dead-end street and driveway) with 10-14" of unplowed snow on them. If the CR-V will do it, I see no reason why the Pilot wouldn't.
If you want 7/8 passenger and worry about the Pilot's ground clearance and street tires, how could the E320 be better?? Do you know the maintenance record of the car and how it was driven? Think about what the repair costs of 4WD hardware on a Benz must cost. That $5K engine repair bill you had probably wouldn't cover a torque converter replacement on a Benz. Just my .02
Price, sounds like an out of state purchase might get you closer to invoice.
Complaints, saggy leather seats after short time of use. No D4 manual selection for transmission.
MPG, I get 18-20mpg around town and 22-25mpg on the interstate.
Capabilities, I've been through deep snow and it does quite well. It's much better at staying controlled and driveable than my Jeep Wrangler. BTW, you can see pics of my Pilot in the snow in the Pilot Owners Gallery here. I think the stock tires (mine are GY) are the weak link here.
For more detailed answers, you might check out Honda-Pilot.org.
01r1: No 4D manual selection? So that means it drives as a 2wd vehicle and only shifts power to all four wheels when it encounters slippage? But you can't manually engage 4wd yourself? That may not be a deal killer, but the Trooper has an opposite problem which I don't like. In my 1996, it has "shift on the fly" 4wd, but no front differential or some such mechanics which allows you to drive with 4wd on dry pavement. In 1997 they went to a differnet "torque on demand" system.
Also, are the leather seats bad enough that you would have opted for cloth if you could do it over?
Finally, what areas /states can you get close to invoice pricing?
sbcooke: thanks for the Trooper MDX comparison. Nice to hear from somebody who owns & drives both.
joey2brix: I misspoke about getting a used E Wagon. Given how well they hold their value, I 'd be better off getting a new one at a discount (albeit still at $50k +/-) before they change over to the new body style. Also, wasn't suggesting the E320 could match a full size serious SUV in handling rough driving conditions. But it can handle rain and light snow pretty well. The advantage is a car that last forever, gets good gas mileage and is a lot more pleasant to drive when you aren't plowing through 8-12"+ of snow. Our neighbors have one and at 220k miles, it is rock solid with less rattles than our Trooper had when it was brand new. I'd still miss the cargo carrying and roof rack carrying capacity of our Trooper though and $50k is a lot of greenbacks.
Nope, I don't think that is what he meant. You can "lock" the VTM4 AWD system at low speeds (up to 18mph), and it works in reactive mode at all times. It reacts to both slipage and throttle input. Stomp on the gas and the AWD engages in anticipation of slippage.
The inability to select D4 refers to the 5 speed automatic transmission. You cannot select 4th gear for things like towing.
It's been a week now since we got the pilot, it's great to get it before the snow and it works well. I noticed the tires of my pilot are bridgestone, somehow I had the impression from the board Honda replaced bridgestone tires with good year tires. is that true? The car was built in 01/03. However, I am not sure which tire is better, the goodyear or bridgestone. Anybody changed tires to a better model?
If you want to learn more about out-of-state deals, you should read the "Pilot Owners: What did you pay?" Edmunds discussion for detailed out-of-state purchase instructions and stories. You may have to read some of the posts that date back a couple of months. Summary: I ordered mine from OH (Waikem) in early Jan. and it arrived a few days before the storm. Smooth deal at $800 over invoice plus $350 for shipping to the door!
More info: I got about 18 mpg on my first (and only) tank driving around NVA. Similarly to you, I sold my MR2 Turbo (fun car) but I still have my older 4x4 ('91 4Runner) that is harder to drive in the deep snow but you can do more stuff with it if you use it right. Pilot is a great on-road vehicle and I suspect it will do ok in mid-duty off-road situations. I have driven most of the vehicles you are considering (some in older versions) and I find the Pilot to be the best value (IMHO).
I purchased my Pilot EXL with DVD in November for $1000.00 over invoice in the Detroit area. The vehicle has had 5000 trouble free miles. My major complaints.
1. No sunroof 2. No heated seat option in US 3. Leather seats stretch and loose tightness
I drive between 70 and 75 on the freeway and get 21 mpg on the highway and 16 in town. I have a heavy foot so the stop and go hurts the mpg.
I upgraded tires to Michelin cross terrains. I had read good reviews about them. The Goodyears that I pulled off were quieter at any speed and seemed to absorb the bumps in the road better. Less feedback transmitted through the wheel. The cross terrains have a more aggressive tread, stiffer side wall, and corner much better. They handle very well in snow and rain.
7/8 passenger capacity? Is that a serious issue? Does that include a lot of small children?
I was seriously considering the Pilot because my wife wanted an SUV instead of a minivan. We test drove the Pilot and really liked the way it drove/rode/handled.
Thought it was a nice vehicle until we tried the third seat. Its strictly for little kids only. Adults and large kids will not fit.
The Sequoia has a great third seat but the price for that is its size (I keep getting the sensation it should be painted bright yellow).
Still haven't found the right alternative but she hasn't brought it back up so maybe I've dodged the bullet for the time being.
The Pilot looks like it is the front runner, especially if I can get one at $1,000 over invoice or better. I'll probably hang on to our Trooper for the remainder of this winter/spring and look to get something this summer/fall. Idid well to purchase an S2000 in November (i.e. non convertible weather), but I'm not sure if there is a best time to buy an SUV.
Final question: Pilot vs. MDX? The MDX does have the sunroof option and a few more creature comforts, but on first blush, doesn't seem to me to be worth the extra money. It's rated at a few more horsepower, but I question whether that's really noticable or just a marketing ploy. Having owned an Acura and two Honda's previously, I wouldn't pay a nickle more for the "premium" Acura nameplate.
For everyday use, in the suburbs of Ga., I've gotten 19-20 mpg so far. This is on the fills that I have made, at the same pump, facing the same direction. I've not had the opportunity to checked it on a mostly highway trip yet.
In our dailey driving, it seems that the transmission chooses to stay in 4th gear for most anything other than the "LIGHTEST" throttle. If it gets even more throttle, say 1/3 throttle, it may decide to go to 3rd. Once downshifted, it seems to be pretty committed, until conditions are perfect for shifting to a higher gear. Really have not noticed the tranny searching and/or wandering for the right gear. I really don't find a need for a 4th gear selector option, with this engine/tranny. The shifts are pretty much "SEAMLESS" to the driver, and are more noticable on the tachometer, than FEEL.
Can't help you with "SNOW" questions in Georgia. : ) However, a friend lives on a very steep lake lot. His driveway seems "Straight Up" and is a mixture of gravel, rocks, and holes. The Pilot had no problem with it. If 4wd engaged, it wasn't noticable. A 2 door (Short) Montaro I had, prefered that the 4wd be engaged, even though it had a limited slip rear end. It would climb that driveway in 2 wheel drive, but with a lot of dancing around.
Snow/ice are animals that require proper tires, regardless of drive system. There are no perfect tires for all conditions. I believe that if I lived in an area that had lots of snow, I would buy some cheap steel wheels ( $35-$50 each ) and mount them with aggressive "OFF ROAD" tires for serious winter use. Then change back to the stock tires/wheels for the rest of the year, for the comfy ride. Keep in mind that any tire that packs with ice/snow/mud, becomes a "Slick", for purposes we are discussing here. 4 wheels spinning, are 4 wheels spinning. Whatever the delivery system.
Regarding transmission problems; The late model trannys do considerably more work than those in days of yore. It's not uncommon to hear of folks spending thousands of dollars in repairs. These new cars also have tons of sensors and other stuff, that can and will give problems. I suggest a bumper to bumper extended warranty for any new vehicle. Honda 3/36 doesn't offer roadside assistance, but the "New" Honda extended warranty does. And I understand that it is in effect from date of purchase. So it would "BE THERE" even during the 3/36 factory warranty. I paid $930 for 7yr/75000 mile. It has a $50 deductable on repairs. Most others that we investigated have a $100 deductable.
There is a Honda Service bulletin addressing the sloshing gas noise problem. My Pilot doesn't do it, but my Ram P/U did! Dodge didn't address or fix it!
So far, the only concern I have is with rain water dripping onto the window/mirror (driver arm rest) controls, if the window is down more than an inch. I believe the window shades will solve that.
FWIW I got $1500 off MSRP. That gave the dealer about $1500 profit. Seemed fair for a vehicle that is still in short supply. I could have gotten a ford or Mazda product on "X" plan with another $2000-$3000 cash back. For us, the fit, finish, and precision feel of the Pilot was worth the considerable difference that we had to pay for it. Hopefull it will prove to be as reliable as Honda's reputation. Time will tell!
i cant see honda correcting the problem unless they are going to reposition the gas tank. i guess i could live with the sloshing if the pilot turns out better than average.
I got my Pilot in 11/02 after waiting 3 & 1/2 months. I'm very happy with it except for the gas mileage in local driving. On a recent road trip, I got around 22 mpg on the highway, but I've been averaging 12-14 locally. I wonder if the mileage is so low because the local trips are very short (1-3 miles) & I live in a cold climate so the engine never gets to fully warm up. Is anyone experiencing the same problem?
Cold temperature has a lot to do with poor gas mileage. I suspect it will improve as the weather warms and gas stations start replacing their winter blends this spring.
First service at 4200 miles. Oil/filter, adjusted tire pressure, fixed a couple of minor odds and ends, checked all fluids. $21 including tax. Gas mileage on the last tank 249 miles with 150 highway rest around town was 17.8 mpg. It has been very cold, the high has been around 20 degrees so I expect the mileage to get better when (and if) it ever warms up.
I've had my Pilot since June and have a little over 5,000 miles on it, I also live in coastal So. Orange County Calif where temperatures get down to a chilly mid 50's every once in a while. My mileage is absolutely awful - about 12 - 13 mpg! It does get a little better if I take a long freeway trip (not by much), and my day to day driving is just around town, but I was very disappointed that the window sticker mpg of 17-22 meant the low was an average and my average was at the lowest. I love my Pilot, it's a great vehicle but the mpg is very disappointing (and expensive now that gas is at 2.06 per gallon for the lowest octane!) and it has not gotten better as time goes on.
Thank you all for your responses. My wife drives the Pilot most of the time and loves it. However, because of the poor gas mileage in the local driving, I don't know if we'd still buy it if we had to do it over again since most of her driving is local. However, there aren't many available options if you want a mid-size SUV. I doubt if the 4-cylinder SUV's (e.g. the 4-cylinder Highlander) have enough power, especially when fully loaded. From an environmental point of view, at least it is a ULEV (ulta-low emissions vehicle).
Don't know if that is usable, but I am trying to print the bullitins here ------ Component Description: 3.FUEL:FUEL TANK ASSEMBLY NHTSA Number: 638105 Bulletin Number: 010902 Bulletin Date: SEP 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot Summary: CUSTOMER COMPLANTS OF THUMPING FROM FUEL TANK FROM SLOSHING FUEL.. *TT CUSTOMER MAY COMMENT THAT THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE INDICATOR DOESN'T READ SUBJECT REGARDING WIND NOISE FROM HOOD AIR DEFLECTOR. *TT ACCURATELY. *TT ------- Component Description: 4.SUSPENSION NHTSA Number: 633635 Bulletin Number: 02045 Bulletin Date: AUG 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot Summary: CONCERNS WITH CREAKING OR TICKING FROM THE PILOT DASHBOARD OR A FRONT STRUT WHEN DRIVING OVER BUMPS AND WHEN BRAKING OR TURNING. *TT --------- Component Description: 8.SUSPENSION NHTSA Number: 633666 Bulletin Number: 9489 Bulletin Date: JUN 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot Summary: SUBJECT REGARDING 2003 PILOT FRONT SUSPENSION, DASH NOISE, METAL TO METAL WHEN DRIVING OVER BUMPS. *TT ------------ Here is a biggie, if you have any earlier Pilot or probably any Honda 3.5 V6 mfg July 2002. Nature of Defect: 1.ENGINE:TIMING GEAR AND CHAIN Recall Number: 02V226000 Dates Manufactured: JUL 2002 to JUL 2002 Number of Vehicles Affected: 17551 Date Owners Notified On AUG 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot Defect Description: On certain minivans, sedans, coupes, and sport utility vehicles equipped with V6 engines, a timing belt tensioner pulley on the water pump is misaligned and could cause the timing belt to contact a bolt on the cylinder head. Eventually the belt could be damaged and fail.
Consequence of Defect: If the timing belt breaks, the engine will stall, increasing the risk of a crash.
Corrective Action: Dealers will inspect the water pump and if it is one of the defective pumps, the water pump and timing belt will be replaced. Owner notification began August 30, 2002. Owners who take their vehicles to an authorized dealer on an agreed upon service date and do not receive the free remedy within a reasonable time should contact Honda at 1-800-999-1099 or Acura at 1-800-382-2238.
Hope these help! I have not experienced any of these problems. So they be doing something to correct them. My Pilot was mfg 12/02. I founf date of mfg, on a sticker just below the passenger side rear dooe lower hindge. It is visible when the dribers door is open.
Hello all. I have been following different boards for some time in order to help decide which vehicle would replace our Ford Windstar, whose lease was about to expire. The CR-V and Element were front runners with the Element looking very attractive because of the easy clean interior(I have 2 daughters that create quite a lot of debris). They are both great cars but issues kept returning on both. Lack of adequate leg room driver's seat with the CR-V, I'm 6'2", and limited cargo/passenger capacity with the Element. OK, long story short: One test drive with the Pilot and I was hooked. My wife wanted the Pilot from the start but I was hesitant because of the price. However, after comparing to similar rides with like options; Envoy/Trailblazer, Explorer, 4-Runner, etc., I realized that the Honda's a pretty good/great deal. So far we all love the car. Kid's have plenty of room for junk and friends, the ride's super, and I have a car that I hope will provide us good service for the next 150-200k miles (one way to justify the extra expense). We just finished the 600 mile break-in period. Haven't calculated mileage yet, waiting for next fill-up. A few questions: Is there a recommended shorter interval for replacing "break-in" oil? What damage could be done if the car was driven aggressively within the 1st 20 miles? (Odometer read 21 when I test drove the car.) Could there be a problem if the transmission downshifts 2 gears occasionally on inclines when cruise control is engaged? As I mentioned earlier the car drives wonderfully. The downshift isn't annoying but I recall reading earlier posts that the tranny usually drops one gear and is only really noticed by the tachometer. When cruise is off this is the same with my car but with cruise on I noticed the "sharper" shifts. Overall very pleased with purchase so far and hope to share many happy stories with you all.
Sorry bout the typeOs Let me try that last sentence again. : )
I found date of mfg, on a sticker just below the passenger side rear door's lower hinge. It is visible when the drivers door is open, and the rear door is closed. Thanks, Kip
With the cruise on at speeds of less than 55-60, mine occationally will down shift directly into third, without stopping at 4th, if a particularly aggressive hill is encountered. Once the majority of the "Strain" is gone, It will shift back up to 4th fairly quick but stays committed to 4th until the "Strain" is out of the picture.
It is just trying to keep the engine from lugging, and stay in a resonable RPM/Torque range, for conditions. If you keep your eye on the tach, you will notice the tranny is shifting to 4th with very little provocation! Gotta remember that this is a 3.5 liter engine, developing 240HP. It thrives on RPM. Kip
i would do your first oil change at 1000 miles with the break in oil. followed by 2 to 3000 miles oil changes. i change my oil every 2500 miles or every 3 months what ever comes first.
I follow what them manual and dealer recommends for first and subsequent oil changes. I contacted two Honda dealers and was told our Pilot's (and probably all Honda's) use a special break-in oil that should not be changed until 5000 miles.
I guess you really won't hurt anything by changing earlier, but why not follow the dealer and manufacturers recommendation?
i find it crazy to think you could let any car go 5000 to 7500 miles before you change your oil.i buy cars every 3/4 years new and most dealers will tell you dont worry just drive the car/ suv its already broken in, 5 to 7500 mile oil changes are not going to hurt blah, blah, blah. if your not using synethic oil there is no way i would trust any 5/30 10/30 10/40 motor oil to be left in my vehicle more than 3 months. the oil is the life line of your vehicle. i think dealerships want you to change your oil every 7500 miles.it can only add up to more money for them down the road. for a 10 dollars do it your self oil change. i feel much better knowing my oil will never break down and the blood line[ oil ] is always free of unwanted radicals.toyota, nissan, honda, dodge etc all claim to use some kind of special break in oil. it might not hurt letting your pilot go 5000 miles on the break in oil but i would never never let my vehicle go that long.. ask any dealer what this special break in oil does and you will be inclined to change it sooner.just my 2 cents.
I do as you do, but I don't necessarily believe what you say. I have a 1995 Nissan Maxima that is performing flawlessly at 135k miles on its (approximately) 40th oil change. I change the oil about every 3,500 miles in less than 30 minutes myself. I'm too lazy to take it to Jiffy Lube when they are open, and can do it without getting under the car.
On my Honda S2000, I confirmed there was an additive that was put in the oil at the factory and that it should be left in for at least 3,000 miles. Although I was also advised to check the level regularly and did add a quart. I couldn't possibly change the oil on the Honda myself, so I'll probably follow the dealer recommendations of every 7,500 miles or 6 months (Mobil 1).
On newer BMW's, the "service indicator" computer keeps track of all sorts of driving variables besides just miles. One of my business associates went 14,000 miles before the change oil light went on in his 2002 330i. In discussing this with a Mercedes driving friend who also has master's degrees in mechanical engineering and materials science, he gave me the technical answer. "Synthetic motor oils, filters and engines have improved". Seriously, there were a lot more ways contaminants could get into your father's low efficiency Oldsmobile than today's high efficiency Honda or BMW.
If you want to feel better changing your oil more frequently, go for it. I do. On at least one of my cars.
i would be curious to know how many people drive there cars,suv change there oil 7500 miles or more with 5/30 10/30 10/40 and still have there vehicle after 6 years with out problems. most all people i know including my wife and sister who probably changed her 88 honda oil at 7 8 thousand miles all had motor problems. i agree that synthetic motor oils have come along way and you could get alot more miles out of it but 12000 or 14000 mile oil changes i would not due. i dont care what the car computer is telling me. ON synthetic oil 7500 miles is the most i would go. FOR 75 dollars or so i would have piece of mind. granted i'm no oil expert but since 1979 i have been doing my oil changes 2/3000 miles and had nothing but sucess with MY CARS AND TRUCKS. most of the folks i know who did not due regular oil changes all had problems with there vehicles down the road.
I agree. I just completed the first servicing on my Pilot. I did not wait for 7000 miles and had it done at 4200 miles. I think 7000 miles is too long. I am shooting for 3750 intervals going forward and left the "break in oil" in a little longer.
If anyone has a source for what the break-in additive is, I'd like to see it. Most sources I've seen say that car mfgs put garden-variety oil in their cars, nothing more or less.
is it just urban legend? or is it fact.? from my understanding the break in oil used is like a mild detergent oil. they say it lubercates and catches any particles from the new engine and tru the system. how true this is nobody seems to know.my honda pilot has 200 miles on it at no more than 1500 miles i will replace it with new oil followed by every 3000 miles. tom and ray national public talk radio at cartalk cars.com published a pamplet called 10 ways to ruin your car without knowing it. one of those items was failure to do oil changes. they recommend changing every 3000 miles. oil is too cheap to take a chance. i say to all of the folks on edmunds who go over 7500 miles for oil changes take your next batch of old oil and have it analyzed to see what the levels are and if its breaking down.i dont feel oil filters are that good where they can go more than 6 months or longer i have been told by numerous people that car oil monitoring systems do not detect dirt in your oil especially if area's are dirty and dusty. has anybody got a straight answer from honda on break in oil?
I think the "additive" that Honda uses is just the "shavings" and "dirt" in the new oil - they use it to polish up stuff faster. My theory :-)
I also follow my owner's manual on my Quest - dead dino every 7,500 miles. The Europeans think we're nuts for flushing so much oil down the drain and I tend to agree with them. But it's too soon to tell - I only have 80,000 miles on my current ride with it's ~11 oil changes.
I highly recommend the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 - I ran out of time to keep up with it, but there's lots of good info in that topic on oil.
So far averaging 15.5 mpg after the first 600 miles. That is mostly in town driving in weather below 40 degrees (Omaha, NE). I am a little disappointed as I was expecting 17 mpg or a little better. But, probably with the engine break in I won't get true numbers until after the first 1,000 miles. Have not been able to get an extended run on the highway to see what the mileage looks like. Glad I am not seeing 12 mpg like a few of you reported.
Sorry for asking a question what might have been asked before but I couldn't find a reference to it. I'm one of those who are not able to decide on Pilot VS MDX. One of the feature available in MDX is Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA). I'm not sure how important this feature is. This is not available in Pilot.
Not sure if Traction Control is available in the Pilot.
I have owned my Pilot since November and have 4900 miles on it and have been very satisfied until recently. I have noticed little dings in the interior plastic on the B pillar from the seat belt buckle hitting hit. Has anyone else had this type of problem? It seems like the plastic is too soft.
brian says "I would be curious to know how many people drive their cars, SUV change there oil 7500 miles or more with 5/30 10/30 10/40 and still have there vehicle after 6 years with out problems". Hope you mean engine problems, because another question you could ask is after 6 years, how many people replace their vehicle because of transmission, suspension, creaks, rattles, rust or because it's just plain old? Probably lots more than those that have engine problems due to infrequent oil changes.
Anyways, here's another quote for you: "A Consumer Reports study put the brakes on 3,000-mile oil changes a few years ago. They found no noticeable difference in engine protection whether they changed the oil every 3,000 or 6,000 miles". This was the taxicab test CU ran a few years ago.
The only thing I'll agree on is a car owners oil change schedule is a personal and/or psychological preference and if you have the time and makes you feel better, then more power to you.
Oh, I have a '98 Subaru OB (bought when it first came out in July of '97) so it's almost 6 years old. Have 110K miles with oil changes mostly in the 5,000 to 7,500 range but have gone longer depending on my schedule. I’ll let you know if my engines blows in the next year!
Comments
I think he was already using the VTM-4. Anyway, I just don't think the Pilot was built to handle 12"+ snow. So it's no big deal to get stuck in this storm. It's more important and impressive that he can get out of it in his Pilot without any outside help.
Disclosure: First SUV, but prior experience with Honda (Odyssey and Accord, both favorable). Also ownership experience with Audi, Saab, MB, Nissan, Subaru
Purchase price -- paid MSRP, beige/tan EX-L, taken out of dealer inventory allocation, 6 weeks out (took quotes from 4 other dealers in the interim, no variances, and no matching beige inventory offered).
I really enjoy driving this vehicle! On an extended trip through lots of elevation and weather changes, the Pilot never loses its poise. Positives:
- very stable in crosswinds
- MPG is 22-23 over several tanks, mostly highway.
- very quiet at 75mph (occasional slight vibration sound on driver window)
- Drivers seat very comfortable
- Lots of room (duh!) and easier to deal with packing/loading/schlepping vs a car.
Other Comments:
- Mechanically, no significant issues. I don't miss a sunroof or heated seats (which I have in other vehicles).
- Front seat leather -- i do wonder about it's quality over time... Seems looser already...
- Conveniences and cubby-holes are very good, would prefer some rubber lining in various spots
The driving's the thing with the Pilot... I drove Murano briefly and preferred its styling vs Pilot, but was more expensive and didn't drive as well, in my opinion.
Interestingly, Pilot is also much better in lighter snow conditions. I agree with some concerns posted earlier: lack of underbody protection. On the flip side, I would not worry about snow hitting the underside but rocks, ice and semi rubber (at highway speeds) are more of an issue. I have NEVER had to worry about the underbody of my 4Runner and it has a lot more clearance all around.
-mike
Not all SUV's are measured like this. For example, my Trooper says 8.3 inches, that is the low point under the truck (center differential skid plate and rear differential), actually the rest of it is higher.
My main concern driving in deep snow is that a huge ice ball could hit something and cause a problem, especially at the low points (not that it will keep me from going out and having fun). The MDX/Pilot has minimal skid plates/armor underneath, not that typical snow driving needs it, but an ice ball at 30 MPH could do damage.
- Mark
My preliminary considerations are: Toyota Sequoia, Honda Pilot, Used Mercedes E320 Wagon 4-matic. I am leaning towards the Pilot in part because I have a Honda S2000 and have had a positive experience with the dealership. Questions for Pilot owners:
Price target? Appears form browsing these posts that not much under MSRP is possible. What is the best deal you have gotten / heard of? My dealer will likely match anything that is legitimate.
Complaints? Give me the 2-3 things you dislike the most about the vehicle, now that you own one. Any reports of problems with the 5-speed auto transmission used in the Pilot (I know from other boards that transmission failure has been a problem with TL, CL and Accords).
MPG? Fortunately, we don't put a ton of miles on the Trooper, but 13 mpg city and 16-17 mpg highway was no fun at the pump. Especially with projections of $3/gallon prices possible by summer. What are you actually getting with the Pilot?
Capabilities? We don't do much "off-roading" but we did get 24" of snow in DC last week and out Trooper handled it better than Jeep Grand Cherokees and the like. We also travel the PA & New England snow belt often and want a capable vehicle. The Trooper, with all its faults, has "real" 4wd tires and ground clearance. It looks to me like some SUV's - and perhaps the Pilot - have "car" tires and limited clearance. Great for fair weather driving and better gas milage, but maybe not for rough weather. At that point, the E320 Wagon with 4-matic creeps into the picture. Friends have one and it has been both bulletproof and gets nearly 30 mpg on highway trips. It costs a boatload, but maintains it's value exceptionally well.
Other vehicles you compared with? We'd like to go to 7/8 passenger seating, but probably don't need the overall size of the Sequoia.
Thanks much for any feedback.
If you are looking for something that can handle 8-10" of snow with ease, has great highway gas mileage (I get 24+ on the highway), OK around town (I get 16-17) then the Pilot is for you. I think the VTM system is capable enough.
The Trooper is just as roomy from a first 2 row seating perspective, and cargo space is a push.
If you want to tackle difficult terrain, stick with the Trooper. I tested the MDX out in this last storm, and it did really well, however I am much more confident hitting over a foot of snow in my Trooper...although that is really only for fun, the roads here never got more than 12" on them due to being plowed at least once during the storm and I am sure the MDX could have tackled anything on the roads here.
The MDX/Pilot is a wide/big vehicle. I passed on the sequoia because of the size, the MDX is smaller, but still has a pretty wide stance.
I love my MDX and am super happy with the purchase. I don't think you will be unhappy with a Pilot.
1. No sunroof
2. Sloshing gas tank
3. Creaking suspension
I got through the same storm up here in MA. We got 22-27", but the roads were cleared semi-regularly. I got through a few roads (my own dead-end street and driveway) with 10-14" of unplowed snow on them. If the CR-V will do it, I see no reason why the Pilot wouldn't.
Complaints, saggy leather seats after short time of use. No D4 manual selection for transmission.
MPG, I get 18-20mpg around town and 22-25mpg on the interstate.
Capabilities, I've been through deep snow and it does quite well. It's much better at staying controlled and driveable than my Jeep Wrangler. BTW, you can see pics of my Pilot in the snow in the Pilot Owners Gallery here. I think the stock tires (mine are GY) are the weak link here.
For more detailed answers, you might check out Honda-Pilot.org.
-Pete
01r1: No 4D manual selection? So that means it drives as a 2wd vehicle and only shifts power to all four wheels when it encounters slippage? But you can't manually engage 4wd yourself? That may not be a deal killer, but the Trooper has an opposite problem which I don't like. In my 1996, it has "shift on the fly" 4wd, but no front differential or some such mechanics which allows you to drive with 4wd on dry pavement. In 1997 they went to a differnet "torque on demand" system.
Also, are the leather seats bad enough that you would have opted for cloth if you could do it over?
Finally, what areas /states can you get close to invoice pricing?
sbcooke: thanks for the Trooper MDX comparison. Nice to hear from somebody who owns & drives both.
joey2brix: I misspoke about getting a used E Wagon. Given how well they hold their value, I 'd be better off getting a new one at a discount (albeit still at $50k +/-) before they change over to the new body style. Also, wasn't suggesting the E320 could match a full size serious SUV in handling rough driving conditions. But it can handle rain and light snow pretty well. The advantage is a car that last forever, gets good gas mileage and is a lot more pleasant to drive when you aren't plowing through 8-12"+ of snow. Our neighbors have one and at 220k miles, it is rock solid with less rattles than our Trooper had when it was brand new. I'd still miss the cargo carrying and roof rack carrying capacity of our Trooper though and $50k is a lot of greenbacks.
Nope, I don't think that is what he meant. You can "lock" the VTM4 AWD system at low speeds (up to 18mph), and it works in reactive mode at all times. It reacts to both slipage and throttle input. Stomp on the gas and the AWD engages in anticipation of slippage.
The inability to select D4 refers to the 5 speed automatic transmission. You cannot select 4th gear for things like towing.
More info: I got about 18 mpg on my first (and only) tank driving around NVA. Similarly to you, I sold my MR2 Turbo (fun car) but I still have my older 4x4 ('91 4Runner) that is harder to drive in the deep snow but you can do more stuff with it if you use it right. Pilot is a great on-road vehicle and I suspect it will do ok in mid-duty off-road situations. I have driven most of the vehicles you are considering (some in older versions) and I find the Pilot to be the best value (IMHO).
1. No sunroof
2. No heated seat option in US
3. Leather seats stretch and loose tightness
I drive between 70 and 75 on the freeway and get 21 mpg on the highway and 16 in town. I have a heavy foot so the stop and go hurts the mpg.
I upgraded tires to Michelin cross terrains. I had read good reviews about them. The Goodyears that I pulled off were quieter at any speed and seemed to absorb the bumps in the road better. Less feedback transmitted through the wheel. The cross terrains have a more aggressive tread, stiffer side wall, and corner much better. They handle very well in snow and rain.
I was seriously considering the Pilot because my wife wanted an SUV instead of a minivan. We test drove the Pilot and really liked the way it drove/rode/handled.
Thought it was a nice vehicle until we tried the third seat. Its strictly for little kids only. Adults and large kids will not fit.
The Sequoia has a great third seat but the price for that is its size (I keep getting the sensation it should be painted bright yellow).
Still haven't found the right alternative but she hasn't brought it back up so maybe I've dodged the bullet for the time being.
The Pilot looks like it is the front runner, especially if I can get one at $1,000 over invoice or better. I'll probably hang on to our Trooper for the remainder of this winter/spring and look to get something this summer/fall. Idid well to purchase an S2000 in November (i.e. non convertible weather), but I'm not sure if there is a best time to buy an SUV.
Final question: Pilot vs. MDX? The MDX does have the sunroof option and a few more creature comforts, but on first blush, doesn't seem to me to be worth the extra money. It's rated at a few more horsepower, but I question whether that's really noticable or just a marketing ploy. Having owned an Acura and two Honda's previously, I wouldn't pay a nickle more for the "premium" Acura nameplate.
Thanks again to everyone.
In our dailey driving, it seems that the transmission chooses to stay in 4th gear for most anything other than the "LIGHTEST" throttle. If it gets even more throttle, say 1/3 throttle, it may decide to go to 3rd. Once downshifted, it seems to be pretty committed, until conditions are perfect for shifting to a higher gear. Really have not noticed the tranny searching and/or wandering for the right gear. I really don't find a need for a 4th gear selector option, with this engine/tranny. The shifts are pretty much "SEAMLESS" to the driver, and are more noticable on the tachometer, than FEEL.
Can't help you with "SNOW" questions in Georgia. : ) However, a friend lives on a very steep lake lot. His driveway seems "Straight Up" and is a mixture of gravel, rocks, and holes. The Pilot had no problem with it. If 4wd engaged, it wasn't noticable. A 2 door (Short) Montaro I had, prefered that the 4wd be engaged, even though it had a limited slip rear end. It would climb that driveway in 2 wheel drive, but with a lot of dancing around.
Snow/ice are animals that require proper tires, regardless of drive system. There are no perfect tires for all conditions. I believe that if I lived in an area that had lots of snow, I would buy some cheap steel wheels ( $35-$50 each ) and mount them with aggressive "OFF ROAD" tires for serious winter use. Then change back to the stock tires/wheels for the rest of the year, for the comfy ride. Keep in mind that any tire that packs with ice/snow/mud, becomes a "Slick", for purposes we are discussing here. 4 wheels spinning, are 4 wheels spinning. Whatever the delivery system.
Regarding transmission problems; The late model trannys do considerably more work than those in days of yore. It's not uncommon to hear of folks spending thousands of dollars in repairs. These new cars also have tons of sensors and other stuff, that can and will give problems. I suggest a bumper to bumper extended warranty for any new vehicle. Honda 3/36 doesn't offer roadside assistance, but the "New" Honda extended warranty does. And I understand that it is in effect from date of purchase. So it would "BE THERE" even during the 3/36 factory warranty. I paid $930 for 7yr/75000 mile. It has a $50 deductable on repairs. Most others that we investigated have a $100 deductable.
There is a Honda Service bulletin addressing the sloshing gas noise problem. My Pilot doesn't do it, but my Ram P/U did! Dodge didn't address or fix it!
So far, the only concern I have is with rain water dripping onto the window/mirror (driver arm rest) controls, if the window is down more than an inch. I believe the window shades will solve that.
FWIW I got $1500 off MSRP. That gave the dealer about $1500 profit. Seemed fair for a vehicle that is still in short supply. I could have gotten a ford or Mazda product on "X" plan with another $2000-$3000 cash back. For us, the fit, finish, and precision feel of the Pilot was worth the considerable difference that we had to pay for it. Hopefull it will prove to be as reliable as Honda's reputation. Time will tell!
Good luck with your search.
Kip
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Steve, Host
Sorry for the delay. I been away for a while.
I found these Service Bulitines through Edmonds.
Here is the page:
http://applications.edmunds.com/maintenance/MaintenanceServlet?st- - ep=step4&year=2003&make=Honda&model=Pilot&style=E- - X+4WD+4dr+SUV+w%2F+Leather+%283.5L+6cyl+5A%29&popup=current&a- mp;a- mp;synpartner=edmunds&tid=edmunds...mnt.step2.9.Honda*#3
Don't know if that is usable, but I am trying to print the bullitins here
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Component Description:
3.FUEL:FUEL TANK ASSEMBLY NHTSA Number: 638105
Bulletin Number: 010902
Bulletin Date: SEP 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot
Summary:
CUSTOMER COMPLANTS OF THUMPING FROM FUEL TANK FROM SLOSHING FUEL.. *TT CUSTOMER MAY COMMENT THAT THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE INDICATOR DOESN'T READ SUBJECT REGARDING WIND NOISE FROM HOOD AIR DEFLECTOR. *TT ACCURATELY. *TT
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Component Description:
4.SUSPENSION NHTSA Number: 633635
Bulletin Number: 02045
Bulletin Date: AUG 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot
Summary:
CONCERNS WITH CREAKING OR TICKING FROM THE PILOT DASHBOARD OR A FRONT STRUT WHEN DRIVING OVER BUMPS AND WHEN BRAKING OR TURNING. *TT
---------
Component Description:
8.SUSPENSION NHTSA Number: 633666
Bulletin Number: 9489
Bulletin Date: JUN 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot
Summary:
SUBJECT REGARDING 2003 PILOT FRONT SUSPENSION, DASH NOISE, METAL TO METAL WHEN DRIVING OVER BUMPS. *TT
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Here is a biggie, if you have any earlier Pilot or probably any Honda 3.5 V6 mfg July 2002.
Nature of Defect:
1.ENGINE:TIMING GEAR AND CHAIN Recall Number: 02V226000
Dates Manufactured: JUL 2002 to JUL 2002
Number of Vehicles Affected: 17551
Date Owners Notified On AUG 2002
Vehicle: 2003 Honda Pilot
Defect Description:
On certain minivans, sedans, coupes, and sport utility vehicles equipped with V6 engines, a timing belt tensioner pulley on the water pump is misaligned and could cause the timing belt to contact a bolt on the cylinder head. Eventually the belt could be damaged and fail.
Consequence of Defect:
If the timing belt breaks, the engine will stall, increasing the risk of a crash.
Corrective Action:
Dealers will inspect the water pump and if it is one of the defective pumps, the water pump and timing belt will be replaced. Owner notification began August 30, 2002. Owners who take their vehicles to an authorized dealer on an agreed upon service date and do not receive the free remedy within a reasonable time should contact Honda at 1-800-999-1099 or Acura at 1-800-382-2238.
Hope these help! I have not experienced any of these problems. So they be doing something to correct them. My Pilot was mfg 12/02.
I founf date of mfg, on a sticker just below the passenger side rear dooe lower hindge. It is visible when the dribers door is open.
Kip
I have been following different boards for some time in order to help decide which vehicle would replace our Ford Windstar, whose lease was about to expire.
The CR-V and Element were front runners with the Element looking very attractive because of the easy clean interior(I have 2 daughters that create quite a lot of debris).
They are both great cars but issues kept returning on both. Lack of adequate leg room driver's seat with the CR-V, I'm 6'2", and limited cargo/passenger capacity with the Element.
OK, long story short: One test drive with the Pilot and I was hooked. My wife wanted the Pilot from the start but I was hesitant because of the price. However, after comparing to similar rides with like options; Envoy/Trailblazer, Explorer, 4-Runner, etc., I realized that the Honda's a pretty good/great deal.
So far we all love the car. Kid's have plenty of room for junk and friends, the ride's super, and I have a car that I hope will provide us good service for the next 150-200k miles (one way to justify the extra expense).
We just finished the 600 mile break-in period. Haven't calculated mileage yet, waiting for next fill-up.
A few questions:
Is there a recommended shorter interval for replacing "break-in" oil?
What damage could be done if the car was driven aggressively within the 1st 20 miles? (Odometer read 21 when I test drove the car.)
Could there be a problem if the transmission downshifts 2 gears occasionally on inclines when cruise control is engaged?
As I mentioned earlier the car drives wonderfully. The downshift isn't annoying but I recall reading earlier posts that the tranny usually drops one gear and is only really noticed by the tachometer. When cruise is off this is the same with my car but with cruise on I noticed the "sharper" shifts.
Overall very pleased with purchase so far and hope to share many happy stories with you all.
Stu.
Let me try that last sentence again. : )
I found date of mfg, on a sticker just below the passenger side rear door's lower hinge. It is visible when the drivers door is open, and the rear door is closed.
Thanks,
Kip
It is just trying to keep the engine from lugging, and stay in a resonable RPM/Torque range, for conditions. If you keep your eye on the tach, you will notice the tranny is shifting to 4th with very little provocation! Gotta remember that this is a 3.5 liter engine, developing 240HP. It thrives on RPM.
Kip
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I guess you really won't hurt anything by changing earlier, but why not follow the dealer and manufacturers recommendation?
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
On my Honda S2000, I confirmed there was an additive that was put in the oil at the factory and that it should be left in for at least 3,000 miles. Although I was also advised to check the level regularly and did add a quart. I couldn't possibly change the oil on the Honda myself, so I'll probably follow the dealer recommendations of every 7,500 miles or 6 months (Mobil 1).
On newer BMW's, the "service indicator" computer keeps track of all sorts of driving variables besides just miles. One of my business associates went 14,000 miles before the change oil light went on in his 2002 330i. In discussing this with a Mercedes driving friend who also has master's degrees in mechanical engineering and materials science, he gave me the technical answer. "Synthetic motor oils, filters and engines have improved". Seriously, there were a lot more ways contaminants could get into your father's low efficiency Oldsmobile than today's high efficiency Honda or BMW.
If you want to feel better changing your oil more frequently, go for it. I do. On at least one of my cars.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
- Mark
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I also follow my owner's manual on my Quest - dead dino every 7,500 miles. The Europeans think we're nuts for flushing so much oil down the drain and I tend to agree with them. But it's too soon to tell - I only have 80,000 miles on my current ride with it's ~11 oil changes.
I highly recommend the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 - I ran out of time to keep up with it, but there's lots of good info in that topic on oil.
Steve, Host
Jim
Sorry for asking a question what might have been asked before but I couldn't find a reference to it. I'm one of those who are not able to decide on Pilot VS MDX. One of the feature available in MDX is Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA). I'm not sure how important this feature is. This is not available in Pilot.
Not sure if Traction Control is available in the Pilot.
Would appreciate answers.
Thank you.
Anyways, here's another quote for you:
"A Consumer Reports study put the brakes on 3,000-mile oil changes a few years ago. They found no noticeable difference in engine protection whether they changed the oil every 3,000 or 6,000 miles". This was the taxicab test CU ran a few years ago.
The only thing I'll agree on is a car owners oil change schedule is a personal and/or psychological preference and if you have the time and makes you feel better, then more power to you.
Oh, I have a '98 Subaru OB (bought when it first came out in July of '97) so it's almost 6 years old. Have 110K miles with oil changes mostly in the 5,000 to 7,500 range but have gone longer depending on my schedule. I’ll let you know if my engines blows in the next year!