Honda Pilot 2003 through 2005

hondaguy9

I have been reading all of the posts regarding oil changes. I am a manager of a Honda dealership and I wanted to give the true two cents. 1) "YES" Brian, their is an additive that is placed in all Hondas from the factory and suggested to be left in for a period of time. It does have a special additive in it to help catch all shavings and dirt during the break in period. If you choose to take it out, you are not going to hurt anything, only waste money. 2) "YES" Brian, you only have to change your oil every 7,500 miles "depending on your location and weather" If you have more severe weather than I would (as would Honda) suggest to change it sooner beacause of the condensation that can build up with drastic changes in temp. Aagin, if you change it sooner it will not hurt anything, only waste money. I am sure your previous cars have been fine changing the oil every 3,000 miles as you are not hurting a thing. In these new cars however, it not nessasary to do so and would be just again, wasting money. I hope this helps a little.

sjwsmw

Happy I chose the cloth interior but feel I should be putting some sort of protection on it. I was warned not to use seat covers as the airbags are embedded in the sides of the seats.

Any suggestions on a protection product?
Thanks.

hondaguy9

They were correct that the side air bags are in the seat and would not work properly if covered. I wouldn't suggest letting the dealer do any protectant on the seats. You could easily buy several cans of 3m scothgard and do it yourself for a fraction of the cost. unless the dealer gives you a really great price and is worth it not to do the work yourself.

brian125

i think you have all your facts twisted there. consumer reports did a study on dino oil vs sy nthetic oils in new york cabs under certain driving conditions. consumers concluded that at 3000 miles synthetic oil fared no better than the dino oil at that mileage. but the test were inconclusive . i think like most oil experts, No engine is the same or driving conditions, so to say a certain brand oil will hold up for XX OF MILES is crazy. if you have your oil anaylized at what ever mileage you due oil changes you would know without a doubt if its holding up. for 10 dollars every 3 months i have piece of mind. my oil will never break down or carry to much dirt tru my motor . i think oil is to cheap to take a chance. i bought my car from hidy honda in ohio preston who is a car collector and fanatic says this break in oil should not be left in there for 7500 miles. he also recommended changing by 2000 miles and to change regular oil changes by 3000 miles. this guy has cars with 200 to 300 k miles on them. MY POINT IS UNTIL PROVE WRONG. most evry one that has a vehicle for 200 k or more due frequent oil changes than a person who puts 125k in 5 or 6 years and says look my motor is still going. i guess time will till if oil changes can be done from 7 to 10k a year on dino oil.

hondaguy9

Brian, I can't speak for everyone, but there isn't a "Point until proven wrong". We are just trying to give suggestions and in my case facts. I had a gentleman in the shop two weeks ago that acording to his service record has not changed his oil at no less than 6k and has 218,000 on his Accord. As we said before, of course, you can change it every 500 miles for all we care with no harm to your car, but it has been proven that changing your oil according to the schedule in your manual and according to your car and weather conditions, letting it go until some cases 7,500 miles will not do any damage now or in the long term.

brian125

i find it funny about different thoughs and opinions on oil changes . JIFFY LUBE TELLS ALL THERE CUSTOMERS 3000K OIL CHANGE DONT PUSH IT . HONDA AND MOST CAR MANUFACTORS/ DEALERS SAY 7K 8 10k DONT WORRY ABOUT YOUR OIL changes. on to a more serious topic maybe you can answer for me. why are all HONDA leather seating not tightly pulled/ conformed around the seat.i'm a big dude 6'1 235 i see a problem down the road. any suggestion/ comments on the pilot seats.

stever

to find "evidence" of where the 3,000 mile recommedation came from. Best I could ever figure from my net searches was that some army motor pool guy pulled it out of thin air back in WWI. Fast lube places sell oil; naturally they're going to recommend frequent changes.

There's nothing magical or sacred about "3,000 miles."

But we are getting even further afield from the Pilot; please try that "slippery subject" discussion I linked earlier.

Steve, Host

brian125

i hope the only reason that pops vehicle went 218k was that it was a honda. and not cause of his oil changes lol

brian125

 steve look at the flip side right across america there are hundreds and hundreds of cars on lifts getting a rebuilt motor installed. cause they didn't listen. lets get back to the pilot

stever

At least you didn't bring up those sludged Siennas, some of those really need 500 mile changes :-). I don't know who this guy is, but he must be good since he quotes Edmunds: Motor Oil Myths and Facts

Steve, Host

brian125

my motto why kick a man when he's down

brian125

steve who ever that guy is puts alot of info out on oils. my point was and he stressed it was until you anaylize your oil you really dont know when the best time to change it is? good job

hondaguy9

Jiffy Lube would tell you to bring it in every week if they thought you would..LOL. The whole 3,000 miles thing is like Steve said. It is from so long ago when engines needed it even sooner than that, but now a days...nah. Just be very carefull about doing it yourself. I have seen a few people over the years that have done their own changes in the driveway, had something happen and then guess what....no warranty. The leather seats...no answer, good question though. I wish I could give you a answer other than they never have been a problem in that regards that I can remember.

hondaguy9

I read the post concerning a Honda dealership giving prices then adding accessories and saying "take it or leave it". The store you refered to has a history. They are the largest in their district so they have that attitude. The only time that prices "could" change is when you order one in March and it comes in around May and by then there is a different residual. Most dealers will state on their initial order that the lease price is subject to rates and residuals at date of delivery.

darlington

Hondaguy9, thanks for the useful information--I wish my dealer was as straight as you are. Do you think Honda will put the new nav (from the Accord and MDX) into the 2004 model and/or the VSA from the '03 MDX? I don't care about sunroof, heated mirrors, etc., but those two items--nav and vsa--would make a huge difference for me in deciding whether to wait for the '04 or not. I know Honda's not likely to make too may changes, but curious about your gut feel. Also, do you know when the '04 is coming out? Thanks.

hondaguy9

The 04's shouldn't be out until fall when all the other 04 Hondas come out. I take it you are speaking of the voice activation system on the new Accords. I don't know if they will add them or not. There has been more interest in a sunroof and heated seats than anything else...

eswanborg

Since you're here - any word from Honda on when they're going to make XM radio option available? I've read the press from last summer that it was supposed to be an option starting with the 03 Accord and Pilot but haven't seen anything since. I'm also looking at getting an 03 Pilot in the near future and would love to have XM in both. Thanks.

elizasmom1

Does anyone know whether the Pilot is likely to have as good a rollover rating as the MDX? It is taller, but also wider. I hope the extra width will make up for the added height. I want to buy a 2004, but only if it gets a 4 star rollover rating. I don't understand why NHTSA is taking so long to rate it. The rollover rating is just based on some sort of calculation.

Also, does anyone else wish the Pilot (and other vehicles) would have LATCH for car seats in the center position? This is really the safest spot in the car. Unbelievable to me that LATCH is just in the outboard spots. Maybe that will change in 2004. Are you able to bet a tight car seat fit in that spot using the seatbelt and tether anchor?

lib5

For those of you discussing how frequently to change your oil- you left out something even more important to the life of your engine: Check the oil level frequently, even if your car is new. If your vehicle uses or leaks even a small amount of oil that could cause extra wear and tear. I also think the type of driving you do makes a difference to how often it should be changed. BTW - I change my oil every 3500-4000 miles and have never had any engine problems & I keep a vehicle on average 11-12 years with 150,000 + miles.

crikey

Also, does anyone else wish the Pilot (and other vehicles) would have LATCH for car seats in the center position? This is really the safest spot in the car. Unbelievable to me that LATCH is just in the outboard spots. Maybe that will change in 2004.

Please see NHTSA's FAQ on LATCH, specifically:

5Q. Why aren't LATCH lower anchors provided for the rear center seat?

A. Two pairs of LATCH lower anchors are required in the back seat of vehicles manufactured after September 1, 2002, and those anchors are required to be a specified distance apart for safety protection in a crash. Because of this required spacing between the lower anchorages, most vehicles do not have a rear seat that is wide enough to accommodate anchorages in the center seating position and in an adjacent outboard position. While lower anchorages are typically installed at outboard seating positions, most vehicles that have a center rear seating position without lower anchors also provide a top tether for additional safety benefit.

6Q. Can I use the two inboard lower anchors (of the outboard LATCH seating positions) to install my child seat in the rear center seating position?

A. No, unless both the child restraint manufacturer's instructions and the vehicle owner's manual specifically state that this is acceptable. A child restraint can be installed using the rear-center seat belt and, if forward-facing, the top tether anchor.

I'm not saying that I totally agree with this since I also feel that the rear center seat is the safest place for a child seat. However, this is NHTSA's explanation regarding that. I'm not sure if manufacturers, in general, will change this current setup. Heck, even Volvo, whose main focus on safety, only has LATCH in the outboard positions.

habitat1

You must feel like "Click and Clack" fielding all these questions, but here are two more:

Does the Pilot use the same 5-speed automatic transmission that has been the subject of much debate on the Acura TL boards. I have been given different answers. Do YOU know why there have been so many transmission failures on the TL?

What's your oil change recommendation for a Honda S2000, using Mobil 1 and driving 8-10k miles /year? Sorry, not a Pilot question, but since I'm here.

Thanks.

dave210

Just check out the Acura MDX. It's the same car with the same width, height, front track width, rear track width, wheelbase, you name it.

Anyway, the Acura MDX is the least likely out of all SUV's tested so far to roll over. It has a 4 star rating so I'm guessing the Pilot will be identical!

urch

I'm about 1 month away from 15k maintaince schedule, does anyone know if Jeffy Lube or Mr Good Lube is equipped to change the VTM fluid in Pilot along with oil change and other 15k requirements?

hondaguy9

The Pilot does of course have a 5speed automatic, but not the same as the TL. I know from speaking with my friends down the street that they have had problems with the TL but the one in the Pilot is slightly different because mostly of the past problems. So far, I have not heard of any issues with the tranny. As far as the S2K, I would suggest, depending on your weather conditions in your area, going every 4 months or so. You should be fine. There could be a lot of factors though (driving it in the winter, being able to garage it in the winter, how hard you drive it in the summer..etc) stuff like that.

atalalay

According to my owner's manual, the VTM fluid is to be changed at 30k mile intervals. Why would you do it at 15k?

Oil changes every 3k miles may have been needed 20+ years ago but today they are a myth supported by the shops who overcharge for that service. The engines of today are not the same... Dealership make no money on the changes: some do the whole thing and even wash your car for under $20 so they are actually less likely to push you to do it more frequently. But they love to push other much more profitable services: brakes, engine flushes, 30k mile service for $600+ that would take over a day to do right but your friendly dealer can do it in less than 3 hours, etc. Brian, you cannot go wrong if you change the fluids and filters often but you will probably see no differences if you move from 3k to 5k. IMHO...

Many recommend "severe driving conditions" schedules but they are probably way too conservative for most drivers/conditions.

fast929

Open question to Pilot owners:

I am debating purchasing this vehicle. It is not my first choice but is more available then my first choice. The styling is bland. The wheels are too small. It is rather mundane and austere on the inside. Hopefully you realize that despit these comments, the darn thing still appeals to me for a variety of reasons.

My question after driving it (that keeps nagging me) is about the engine. Do you folks find it satisfying or feel it is not adequate. I am not doing heavy duty towing so a large V-8 isn't necessary. But, I do like performance...as in my V-6 Accord. Fun, fun. I know this is no performance machine but the engine felt lacking to me.

Look forward to owner comments. Thanks.

l5tc

I've had it since the end of December and the power is fine. I don' t know what you're comparing it to however. I could pass on the highway no problem even in the 80 MPH range and getting on the highway, again, is no problem. Can I keep up with high powered sedans. Probably not but what 4WD can? And it's not a small car - and engine that would be much faster would probably get 2 miles a gallon.

atalalay

The Pilot is as good as it gets for "S" for around $30k. However, if you are willing to go for less U you can buy a WRX wagon in the lower 20's (or even the 300 hp version for around $30k when it comes this year). If you want more S in a 4,000 lb UV you will have to spend at least $20k more: X5, ML500, Infiniti FX45, or Porsche Cayenne plus higher end Wagons from Audi and VW. All can be had with 300+ hp. Fast929, you are right, Pilot is rather good value but it is not that flashy. I find the pickup in the Pilot adequate after driving MR2 Turbo for many years, obviously cornering is not even close. Good luck!

markjenn

In an import SUV, you've really got to ante up to some real money to get anything much faster than a Pilot. We're talking X5 V8's, ML V8's, VW Touareg V8's, high-end XC90's, etc. $45K+.

If you can stand an American SUV, the V8 powered Explorers, Tahoes, etc. might be worth driving. They don't have much more peak power, but they'll make power at lower RPM and may feel faster.

With either option, be prepared for some dismal mileage ... maybe even in the single digits around town.

Also keep in mind that all the V8 SUVs become even more clumsy with the bigger engine up front. Virtually all the tests say that the V6 powered SUVs handle better.

- Mark

fast929

Thanks for the comments all. I'm in an interesting situation. I took delivery of a Yukon XL in December. I got a vehicle with a major problem and am in the middle of working with GMC on the buy back. They've acknowledged the problem. So, why not just get another since I bought one already? We went from a minivan and space is an issue for us. This Yukon XL has plenty, obviously. However, once I've driven it for a while, I have liked it less, due mostly to the outright size.

Some of you made great comments about other alternatives. My #1 choice is an XC90. The problem is the dealer is 2.5 hours away. I do not want to buy a new vehicle in that manner. From a local market perspective, I don't have any of the top end dealers you referenced. That is why we ended up with the Yukon XL in the first place.

With another shot at this, the Pilot seems to be a great choice with the exceptions I listed. By the responses, it appears that you are all satisfied (in the proper context) with the performance.

Thanks!

joey2brix

FYI: Got the April issue yesterday. Comparison of Buick RDV, Highlander, Endevor, Murano, Pilot.
Envelope please:

5. Buick
4. Endevor
3. Highlander
2. Murano
1. Pilot

Need we say more?

varmint

I truly dislike the styling of the Murano, but that C&D test gave me a healthy respect for it. When it first came out, I was expecting the sport priorities to ruin the utility of the vehicle. Nissan didn't let that happen.

iammetoo

My wife and I are planning to order a Pilot and are leaning toward an EX-L with RES.

One thing were not clear on though is the difference between the climate control sytems on the LX and EX.
The LX is 'linked' while the EX is 'synchronized. What exactly does that mean and how are they different?
Is there 'zone' type AC & heating and does it have two seperate condensors and heater cores?
Or does the system just allow the rear passengers to control the cooling & heatingof the vehicle overall.

We test drove an EX-L RES this weekend but it had not been through PDI and none of its systems were working including the AC controls or radio.

Were planning to place our order Monday night.

- Janq

iammetoo

This afternoon I was on the phone with the retail parts & service departments at Fairfax Honda in Fairfax, VA inquiring about the towing package.
The retail parts person indicated that there is no power steering and/or transmission cooler for applicable to the towing package. He went on to state that the the towing package only included and required a wiring harness and the receiver itself.
I went on to state that it was my understanding that the coolers were in fact required. He repeated that this is not the case and that there is in fact no additional cooler available.
Her quoted me a rate of $300 for the package.

I then contacted the service department to inquire about installation costs.
They quoted me a rate of $285. I asked the advisor about the need for powersteering and transmission coolers. Again, he too insisted that they are not necessary or required.

Now of course this feedback is entirely against what is currently stated at the Honda website (http://hondacars.com/models/specifications.asp?ModelName=Pilot); "†Towing requires installation of power steering fluid- and automatic tranmission fluid-cooler, both available exclusively from your Honda dealer."

I wonder if any of you have had any issues towing, and if so without the coolers installed? I plan to lease a Pilot for 36 months and will be using it to tow on ocassion my future autocross car ('04 Subaru WRX STi).

- Janq

hondaguy9

I am not sure what they were thinking about or maybe they misunderstood, because there is def. a tow package that includes not only the wiring harness and tow hitch but there is a power steering cooler and a transmission cooler. They are both not only recomended but maditory to keep your warranty in place. The package can vary in price from one dealer to the next, but you MUST install the entire package to ensure your warranty. Also, if you lease and you don't add the package, you will be hit at the end of the lease, when they inspect your car, for huge replacement fees for not installing it the beginning. Bottom line: If you are going to be towing anything with your Pilot, get the COMPLETE tow package.

01r1

I would second that, get the complete package like Honda (the manufacturer) recommends. Sometimes it's frustrating working with a dealership that's not up to speed on this.

I tow occasionally and have both coolers, no problems once they got it installed right. They initially had a loose connection with the PS cooler and I lost all my fluid while driving it home the night we bought it! The PS pump then failed once it got low on fluid.

-Pete

iammetoo

Thanks 'Hondguy9'& '01r1', I'll force the requirement on them in person when I go in to do the paperwork. I'll bring a copy of the website too to boot.
Over the phone I told both individuals I would be towing a boat and a car at nearly Honda's max factory weight rating. They both emphasised it was not necessary.

BTW, would either of you happen to know the answer to my previos query regarding the climate control (#4839)?

Thanks again for your help!

- Janq

atalalay

Fairfax Honda is my closest dealership but I have found them to be totally unprofessional about things and I would not let them touch my car that I bought in OH for $2k below MSRP (after the cost of shipping) whereas the FH wanted MSRP+fee. Your experience only confirms my fears... Get someone else to sell you and install all the right towing hardware.

I am also thinking of WRX (and maybe the new version) for my second car...

AC: my understanding was that LX only has AC whereas EX has climate control. That is one of the reasons why I have an EXL and the 2nd row passengers have their own rheostat (for temperature, but not for fan speed) that can be locked in or out from the front console but I have no idea what LX has.

iammetoo

Yeah, they pretty much suck it seems.
The only reasosn I'm buying from them is because they are closest to me, and I have a potential 'hook-up'.
It remains to be seen how the hook-up pans out though.
I'm replacing a Volvo for my wife I'd purchased in '00 from Fairfax Volvo which has a horrible service dept.

As for the WRX, I have an STi on order (number 8 on 'The List') for me. ; )

Thanks for the feedback toward the AC.
Hey, did you get the 'foglights option'?
I can't tell from the pics if they have clear lenses (driving lights) or yellow lenses/bulb (fog lights).

- Janq

atalalay

iammetoo: I did not get the fog lights because they are white and I want yellow (I have Hella 550 fogs on my 4Runner mounted onto 150 lb bully bar). They run $300 for just parts and the labour is not trivial. Basically, for that kind of money I could get a bar (with no drilling required) and mount Hella lights that are far better into it. I would not be too optimistic on hookups at FH, you can probably get $1000+ off (and only $25 doc fee in MD) and more if you want to order from out of state.... Check the "Pilot Owners: What did you pay?" board for details.

phillyguy1

I just put a deposit down for a Pilot EX in Sandstone Metallic, the dealer says it'll take 3 months to get it. Has anyone had similar wait times before getting their pilot? As soon as I drove this thing I was hooked. I love this vehicle

hondaguy9

Not always, and 3 months sounds long. For example: I have 3 sitting outside right this very second

phillyguy1

U A Dealer? What state U from?

capoany

So after a few months of lurking, pricing, and thinking, taking the plunge for EX-L RES. NJ dealers are all at MSRP, and time v. money equation prevents me from going out of state to save a few bucks. I'm going forward based on availability, finance rate, doc fees, and subjective feel for dealer ignorance/arrogance or lack thereof. This board has been quite helpful. My gut is that the consumer cutback is hitting dealers now, and that availablility is increasing. I'd say sub- MSRP on Pilots in NJ is 60 days away, but the value of the Pilot will remain strong. Will report back after the deal is done.

hondaguy9

Yes, Internet sales manager from NYC area.

habitat1

I have to second atalalay - Fairfax Honda is not a dealership I would recommend.

I live in DC but purchased an S2000 from Sheehy in Alexandria. Very good service. Just had an oil change - charged me a whopping $13.95 total for the filter and labor, since I brough in the Mobil 1 myself.

For whatever reason, Northern Virginia has more than it's fair share of sleezy dealers. Shop around.

phillyguy1

I found my Pilot EX in Sandstone with cloth interior at Piazza Honda in Langhorne, PA. I still paid close to MSRP but it was the best offer yet going through their internet sales. I pick it up Saturday.

jethro316

Glad to hear you're getting your pilot Sat. I ordered one at end of July & didn't get it 'til mid November. I could've gotten one sooner in a different color, but my wife wanted it in green. Took so long, even started looking at Highlanders.

brian125

i have my pilot a few weeks now. i have one complaint being 6'1 235 i find the drivers seat does not go back to far. is it me or what?i'm thinking its from driving my 02 grand sport caravan the seat goes back really far and there seems to be more leg room. has any of the big boys in this forum notice this.

my3kids

I am getting mixed messages. I am ready to buy and every dealership has a different opinion on the towing issue. I will not "tow" anything. I will use the receiver for a bike rack. Some say get the "package" with the engine components, not that I need it, but for warrenty purposes. Some say they wouldn't do the whole thing because Honda only says to do that over 1500 pounds. And yet others say....just go get a hitch receiver from a body shop for next to nothing. Dealer I will likely purchase from recommends the whole "package" at $875. What to do.....what to do?