Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair

randyace

Hope I'm on the right board; if not, I'm sure someone will re-direct me!

My 06 Ford Ranger has a raised dome hood, with a tapering crease down the middle. I want to paint that area, both for looks and to break up the all-white hood, in a flat black finish.

After prepping properly (masking, degreaser, etc), is it necessary to use a fine-grit sandpaper to rough-up the existing paint so the paint I want to apply with adhere better?

I'm not experienced in paint/body work, but I believe this is something I'm capable of with a bit of advice.

Thanks to all in advance!

Randy

clyde1983

Thanks for you advice qbronze.

Yes, my deductible is $500, whats the significance of that?

Thanks, again.

lgjava

hey fear hope, sort of got piggy backed by the dreaded 666 post dude (lol!)

So they repainted your Pontiac Vibe's rear door a seemingly different color? I wouldn't know how to help you. My $32,000 Toyota Highlander that I bought from Gatorland Toyota in Gainesville Florida has an entire grey front and silver rear body. When I bought the car it had a white wax job that effectively covered up the different colored paints. I've been driving this multicolored car for three years. It drives ok!

My concern isn't with the paint but rather with other problems. Because...about a year after I bought the car one of the service techs at Gatorland honestly told me that the car had been "damaged in the port." So my car isn't brand new. My car isn't used. I own a damaged car that the dealership represented and sold to me as a "brand new."

And so I worry about frame damage as well as other concerns! The dealership's response to this??? They send me this crap in the mail like "hey we'll repaint your car!"

ya wanna hear something really funny??

I went to the dealership to talk about my paint. I pulled the car into a slot about a hundred yards away from the service area because there was nowhere to park. I walked in and asked for the Toyota Service Representative.

A few minutes later she came out like some wound up Jill-in-the-box. She popped out at me like she'd been warmed up in the bull pen for a baseball game! She hissed, "where's the car??" "Where's the car??" She shot her head back and forth threateningly like "Reagan" from The Excorcist.
So, I pointed down the line of cars to my left and said, "It's down there."

I had to walk down, grab the car and drive back. When I got back she had this service guy with her that was 6'5'' (if he was a centimeter!) This guy with her was like some giant from some fable. So I stood there sandwiched between the two. The huge guy opened my hood, opened all the doors (did I give them permission for this somewhere??)

Then Jill-in-the-box a.k.a. the Toyota Service Representative launched into the you-damaged-this-car-yourself routine. She walked up and down the length of the car, "this car looks damaged." "Has this car been in an accident?" "Is this a used car??"

I let the wind-up-doll go on and on, and finally I just said, "well, your own service tech told me two years ago that the car was damaged in the port."

Have you guys and girls ever seen someone turn a different color?? Have you ever seen someone about to explode? We'll this woman just stood there--I was afraid she'd wet her pants or something--and her face was just about to pop!

Wow, she scared the you-know-what out of me. She twisted her head around with a sly grin and said, "I know what you're trying to do..." Even Reagan from the Excorcist couldn't twist her head like that!

But she didn't really have any comeback, so she just sputtered and said, "what's this on the side of the car??" "Is this wax?" She dug her claws into a side of my undamaged rear quarter of the Toyota and managed to actually scratch my clear coat!! And then she started into a new routine. She said, "I don't like the way you..."

I wasn't in any mood to hear any more venom, and I didn't like how she shook her hand at my face, and I certainly didn't like the way she scratched her fingernails into my paint job!

So... I put my hands up in the air, asked the 6'5'' giant to close my front hood and left.

I don't have an answer to aggressive people. I really don't.

Fear hope--the best thing you can do is just write letters to the dealership and manufacturer discussing the problem, and hopefully the manufacturer will be unlike Toyota and help you.

good luck,
Paul

fear_hope

Sheesh... Your story is absolutely awful; I feel for you! Perhaps you should try another dealer and Toyota representative. Sounds like you got a viper last time. I'm sure they are not all like that.

Can anyone else offer some advise? Shouldn't the paint match well enough not to be able to tell? The shop does use a computer. By the way how does that whole computerized paint match thing work anyway?

lgjava

you know fear hope if you look up the TV stations in your area, most of them have a consumer complaint or "take action" help center. They're very, very nice people, and I'm sure if you asked them, they could find a mechanic/tech to look at your car and advise you what to do.

good luck,
Paul

qbrozen

sorry about that. i just replied to clyde. i didn't pay attention to the titles.

As for your problem, well, it sounds like you are working on it. Not sure what else to tell you. If it were me, I probably wouldn't have accepted the car in the first place.

qbrozen

I asked about your deductible because that obviously plays a role into what you would pay if you claimed it with your insurance.

Even if you go with the $850 place, insurance would only cover $350. In my opinion, that's not worth it for a claim against your insurance.

jordanf

Hey, I was wondering and hoping that someone would have some good cheap, innovative ideas on how to fix my rocker panels that are rusted out terribly bad without spending too much money. I'm just tired of how rusted out they are and how bad it looks. Its especially bad right behind the cab door. All your comments are welcome and thankyou.

Mr_Shiftright

I'll tell you a down and dirty I did on an Isuzu Trooper. I took a rat tail file and cleaned out the rust as best I could, and treated the spot with a rust inhibiter. After that dried, I packed the hole with steel wool and then bondo-ed over it, and sanded it to a fairly smooth finish. Then I took a rubberized undercoating paint, and masked off the rocker panel area from wheel to wheel, and laid down a flat black strip to hide everything.

This might not look so great on a car, I don't know, but on the Trooper it looked fine and last time I saw the truck, still holding up, amazingly enough. Nothing I was proud of (I can actually do much nicer work) but you know, for a pig you use hog-wash.

winterhound

I normally get white cars because I don't have a garage for them. They get the full sun each day and I live close to the ocean so there's alot of salt in the always moist air.

This time I've decided to get artic blue silver. It's a metalic paint and I'm concerned about durability and properly taking care of it (I'll drive the car until it rusts away.

The dealer (whom I actually trust) has suggested a $750 clear coat that he'll do for $500. He believes this coat will significantly affect my paints durablilty.

ANY COMMENTS???

jordanf

Thanks for the help it turned out I found some replacement rocker panels, used some body panel adhesive and finished it off with some rhino lining. I feel i did a good job for under a 150 bucks. Hopefully it holds up. Thanks.

bigfur

You will need to scuff up the paint with at the very least a red scuff pad to give the black paint something to stick to, otherwise it will peel off.

aallred

Hi,
I'm afraid you have been mislead on many things.

1)We blend paint every day in the body shops and painters how don't are idiots. Your tail gate should have had a blendable match mixed or tinted to match as close as they could and then blended in the tail gate and never painted the entire tail gate if posable and if it was repainted from edge to edge then the quarter panels should have been preped and the base coat should have been blended in the quarters and clear coated to a brake line not blended in to the OEM clear in a panel.

2) A spectrofatomator or color camera works like this. Most take 3 scans of the color at 3 to 5 angels. Then they look for the closest match in the computer data base to the color. It did but yours was to dark. the painter should have then mixed the color and made a spray out of the color and checked it to your car in the sun light at both the face and side cast. If it did not match the painter should have tinted it to match.

3) Take the car back and make them strip all the hard parts of the panels to be painted ie. moldings, door handles ect. Make them strip all the paint off your tail gate down to the e-coat and then prime, block sand, base coat and clear coat the tail gate and blened the paint in to the quarter panels and clear coat those panels to a hard brake line like a door.

If he won't take him to court. E-mail me and I will supply you with more paper work from paint companies, ICAR/ASE and OEM manufactures to back you up than a judge will want to read.
I have been in this paint world for 20 + years and body shops like the one you have had to put up with P-ss me off.

aallred

z142

I have about a 10 square inch spot on my car where the clearcoat is peeling off. I was wondering how much longer until the whole car has no clearcoat. I just noticed that it was doing this less than a year ago and it seems to be getting worse pretty fast. I can also see many small dots where this is happening in other places. Is this going to cause a problem with rust if it gets worse (I live in the desert, probably not...) Also, is there an easy way to fix it without having to repaint the whole car? And what should I expect the repairs to cost at a repair shop that is on the cheaper side?

fear_hope

Thank you very much for your informative and thoughtful response. I have been in touch with the service manager who said that the whole lift gate was not painted with a base coat. He said that the damaged spot was painted/blended and then the lift gate was clear coated. Could that be true? The paint is a very shimmery metalic color that changes from bluish to greenish depending upon the type of light or time of day. Could the coats of clear coat over the base make it appear darker than the adjacent panels? If that is true what could they have done differently for it to come out the correct color?

I have copied and pasted your post into a Word document and will confront him about this. My car is due to go back in to the shop on Thursday. He says he feels confident that they can get it right (whatever that means).

Thanks again for your help!

aallred

Hi,

Hope I helped.

Sometimes a painter will paint a spot repair like the service manger explained. The problem occurs when the painter applies 2 full coats of clear coat to the edge of the panel and this will change the look of the OEM paint.

Your car most likely came from the factory with 2 mils of clear. Now your tailgate has the 2 from the factory + 3-5 more mils of after market clear.

What you are looking at is D.O.I. (Distinction of Image) this makes the metalic flake look bigger and brighter.

How it should have been done is 1 coat of clear should have been applied just over the basecoat spot repair and then the second coat to the edge of the tailgate making the D.O.I. much closer.

Have them buff the quarter panels and if that doesn't do it they can apply one coat of clear to the back eadge of the quater panel and then a secound coat to the eadge of the door. This should cure the problem.

corvette

Too bad it only lasts three years. Still, this should be great for darker colors.

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2005/_STORY/051202-01-e.html

maxx4me

It appears after reading lots of posts here that there is no good solution for my 3 inch minor scratches in my clearcoat paint, is that correct? I was interested in the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser product. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

stephen16

I've got 5 small scratches on my passenger door that have accumulated over time. The most recent occured sometime in the past week or two and is about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch long. I'm debating if I should take the car into a shop and have the scratches repaired professionally or if I should try one of these paint touch up kits? Anyone have past experience with this? Some of the scratches were deep enough to remove paint (particularly this last one).

The scratches are all within about 12 inches of each other on the door panel, and look like they were caused by door dings from cars parked next to mine. If I take the car to a shop I assume they will have to buffer the scratches and touch-up the paint. Does anyone have an idea of what that might cost? Does anyone know what the usual procedure is for this sort of repair? Would they just buffer the scratches and touch-up the paint or would they want to repaint the whole door panel? Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright

I think painting the entire door is really the only way to go, if the rest of the car is pristine. Touch-up is strictly that---and it shows. Besides, very often these scratches have slight dents as well, requiring a smoothing of the surface by either reworking the metal or a very light body filler.

On the other hand, given the barbarism going on these days in parking lots, you will probably end up doing this all over again in a couple of years.

stephen16

If I repaint the entire door, can I trust the shop to get the color match right? The car is 4 years old, so I'm a little concerned that I could end up with a passenger side door that is slightly darker or lighter than the rest of my car.

There is a Dent Doctor nearby that does scratch and minor paint repair. I was thinking about taking my car in to them to get a quote. Does touch-up paint repair really look that bad? Like you said I'll probably be doing this again in another few years considering how tightly packed the parking lot is where I work.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I can't say without looking at it. A good shop can definitely match the paint. A Dent Doctor might look good but these guys work fast and loose---if they airbrush in something it won't have the durability of body shop work. Dent Doctor is great if you're going to dump a car in two weeks or for small bumps that don't require paintwork.

michael_fricks

I have a 89 chevy s10 extended cab and the pasanger door handel is broken off and i am not able to open the door from the inside or out i would like to know if anyone has any suggestions on how to opencthe door to replace the mechaniks

Mr_Shiftright

arghh! That can be tricky. Well sometimes you can activate the door mechanism from the outside with a screwdriver and sometimes you can manipulate the lock by lowering the door glass---but if all that fails you'll have to drill the lock out probably.....OH....maybe a locksmith can open it for you if you bring the truck to them...forgot about that option. They know how to break into cars. Once the door is open of course the door panel and or lock is accessible--I'd suggest that as soon as the locksmith opens the door, tht you or he pop off the interion door panel in case you accidentally slam it shut again.

bremertong

I have owned this car for about two months (2005 lease return with 16500 miles)and while in bright sunlight yesterday I noticed some rust spots on the areas around the metal holding the front seats in place. Car was bought from a reputable used car dealer and a car fax check indicated a clean history. I will attempt to clean with Rustoleum compound but wondered just how big an issue this is and whether it's worth making a complaint to the dealership. The car is in like new condition otherwise and runs well. Wondered what the source of this damage could be. There is no indication of flood damage of any kind. The car does have a retractable sun roof and the rust damage is in the center section, could it have occurred by leaving the sun roof open in the rain. Any ideas as to what is the best way to deal with this will be appreciated.

dschek

I have a dent/scratch on rear door of masda3 '04. This scratch taouches the front door and rear panel a bit as well.
I went to an independent body shop (just 2 guys doing it, I had some positive feedback from a close-by repare shop about the quality of their work). They said they's fix the dent, repaint the whole rear door, the lower panel of the front door and damaged part of the rear panel (they would 'burn-in' new paint on repaired spot to the untouched parts). They were not event going to replace plastic moldings, said they could be repaired. All paint will be blended and color mathced. All repairs would cost $800.
NOW, I went to a dealer's collision center. They were going to replace rear door skin, repaint it, repaint all front door, fix rear panel (very minor damage) and repaint ALL rear panel, replace all moldings. This would cost ~$3000. The dealer's shop is insurance 'provider' and they said ins will cover everything.
Since the car is nearly new I would like to get it fixed right. So the dealer's proposition seems as more 'professional' approach. However I feel uneasy about such a huge repaint job. After all factory paint is factory paint why touch it where it still good.
How was other people's experience with this type of problems. What about insurance ? Will it go up more if I choose $3000 reair vs $800 ?
THANKS!

aallred

I would say the sunroof maybe the problem. To do an easy but good repair clean off the lose rust and then apply POR 15 with POR 15 patch cloth. Let this dry then you can paint if needed or put the carpet down and you will never have to worry about it.

Mr_Shiftright

If the paint shop is truly top notch, you don't have to worry about the paintwork holding up--but they really have to know what they are doing.

I am not a big fan of "blending" although I've been sat on before for saying this, and really I'm not a professional painter.

Yeah I think a $3,000 claim *might* show up on your insurance rates. It kind of depends on how long you've been with them and how many other claims you've had.

If your $800 shop has a really good reputation and will give you a written guarantee on their work, I would be tempted to NOT claim, and just pay the $800 out of pocket. But your situation might be different.

My problem with going the expensive route is that we live in a semi-savage world out there, and I'd be really furious when I get the next parking lot ding in the same spot I just spent $3,000 to fix.

I think your question is a "fence-sitter", there's no clear answer, too many variables.

dschek

Thanks. The 'cheap' guys were recommended so I assume they are OK. The other shop is Masda dealership's collision center. I don't really know if they are good. There is a Honda dealership that has a good reputation for service. I guess I don't have to go to Masda's body shop. Or should I ?
-D

bremertong

Thanks for your reply, what is POR? I have already tried to spray and rub with WD 40 which was my first attempt to remove the rust. I have now bought some Navel Jelly which was recommended by my local hardware store to do the job, have not tried yet. There never has been any carpet over the rusted areas as they are next to the rails that the adjustable seats travel on. These surfaces have never been painted. I assume by rubbing WD 40 in the affected area that I have at least stopped the rust process and that the rest is a cosmetic clean up. Am I correct? So far as the sun roof is concerned I have not been out in any rainy weather since buying the car so don't know if it leaks yet.
Am hesitant to tun a steam of water from a hose as if it is leaking I may make more of a mess than I want to clean up.
Thanks for your interest and let me know a little more about what POR is (brand name if any) and how to use.

elben33

can anybody help me....i'm trying to get a decent paint job on my 88 honda prelude ....but i dont know how much it would cost me......can someone help me....thanks

Mr_Shiftright

Well "decent" is a tricky word.

Here's my two cents about paint jobs:

Painting a car is very labor intensive, so the only way to get a "cheap" paint job is to either cut the labor (do a fast, slip-slop job) or to cut the quality of the paint itself.

So for $500, they are cutting both paint quality AND labor.

For $1,500, you might get a "decent" paint job that would look okay from 25 feet away. This presumes there aren't lots of little depressions or dings in the body. Getting all those out raises the price.

For $5,000, you can get a paint job that approximates a factory look.

If you want a show car, it's $7,500 and up.

So it really depends on what your goals are for your car. Certainly I wouldn't spend more for the paint than the car is worth, at least not for an older Honda.

malexbu

My car was rear-ended this week with no apparent damage to the bumper
itself but the paint peel-offs and smudges here and there.

The insurance company estimated the cost or repairs to be under $350.
I do have a very positive experience with a local body shop from my
past encounters with other cars' front bumpers and therefore have a
place to go to with confidence.

On the other hand, in this case I am not looking forward to taking off
the bumper and repainting it all -- the car is less than one year old
and I am very hesitant to allow anybody to touch its structure if I
can avoid it.

So, I started to think whether I could do this small painting job
myself (I did repair scratches in the past all right and do various
maintenance things myself). I.e., when (if?) the claim check comes
in, buy some kind of spray paint and whatever is needed to buff the
area and do it myself over the weekend.

With peel-offs I don't have any experience -- but then I would if I
did it myself.

So, my question to the experienced people is: is it worth it? Is it
doable reasonably well? What are the right materials to use in this
case?

The car is 2005 Chevy Malibu, white.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have!

gra1656

I recently purchased a 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero, black on black. The car drives terrific. Anyway, the body has some signs of rust from little chips on the paint and dings, etc. I plan on keeping this car for at least 5 years and want this sucker to look brand new. From far away, the car looks great. But, when I get up close, you can kind of see the imperfections. I was also planning on getting the Resist-All exterior and interior protection from the dealership. Is it worth repainting the whole thing? Also, can a good place repaint a car as to make the car look like it just rolled out of the factory? I don't want people to know that the car was repainted, by just looking at the car. What is a reasonable price for a factory-looking paint job and ding removal (less than 10)? Thank you for responding.

qbrozen

hmmmm.... ballpark? Maybe $7500.

colorado11

My 2003 Honda Odyssey minivan was recently hit in a parking lot and it now has a small hole (about the size of a dime) in the rear bumper. The estimator from the driver's insurance company is stopping by in a few days and I am looking for a ball park figure on the cost of repair so I will know if I am getting low balled. I don't know if such a hole can be repaired or if the bumper needs to be replaced. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

dschek

I'd say bumper needs to be replaced. About $700-800.

hubcap1324

I have a 99 Camry with some paint chipped off on the rear bumper after a golf cart hit it. The place is about the size of my palm. Can any of you suggest a quick and dirty way to fix this? I don't want to spend the $400 or so to have the whole rear bumper painted. I think it is too large for the little jar of touch up paint though? Just want to hide the obvious missing paint. Any ideas?

smokey75

I have some small chips that I was slow to touch-up & there is now a small amount of rust in the chips. Do I need to do anything to remove the rust before I touch them up?

bigfur

About the only option i could think of would be to get a can of auto spray paint about the same color for an area that size. Or just go to a local body shop and ask what it would cost to repair it.

bigfur

You definatly want to remove the rust before you paint over it. Otherwise it will just rust thru again right away. Usually a small piece of sandpaper can get the rust out if it hasnt eaten too deep yet.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree...it needs a new one...it's probably a "skin" that goes over a metal framework of some sort? So it's mostly a bolt on and paint job.

bigfur

Shiftright is well...right. The Odyssey bumper is just a cover over the REAL bumper. Should a 500 dollar or so repair.

sportsfan

i just bought a brand new 2006, dark blue car. i live in the northeast, where we have rain, snow and salted roads.

i'm thinking about putting a quality wax on it to protect the paint job.

Can someone please help me out here and tell me his thoughts on this? what type of wax should i use? which waxes should i avoid?

a friend just gave me "griot's garage care kit"...

any thoughts please????

thank you in advance

jpo138

Hey guys I need some help. I have a 2001 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2wd short bed. A couple weeks back I had a minor accident and the passenger side of the bed got a nice size dent in it. Repair shop is quoting $2500 to repair that side of the bed and repaint it. I found a brand new take off bed from a silverado for sale. So my plans are to purchase a bed and repaint the whole truck my self since I am inclined. Probably do some ghost flames or stripes of some sort and still come out less than $2500.

I found a new bed from a 2006 Silverado. My question is does this bed interchange over? The bed looks very similar but I am unsure if they bolt up the same or if there are any other issues. I know the taillights are different and I know they interchange between the years but I would like to know if the beds are still the same. I just dont want to purchase the bed and get it painted and looking pretty then run into issues. Any help that you may offer me would be great. Thanks Josh

ainsleysmom

I bought my very first brand new car (a Honda Odyssey minivan) two weeks ago. I am very excited to have this new purchase.

Last Friday, my husband scraped the new car against our trailer (for hauling wood, etc.) He dented the front quarter panel (garage calls it a fender). The dent is about one foot by 6 inches. In addition there are 3 scratches (deep) that line up exactly with the bolts on the trailer. We got 3 quotes for the damage.

Quote 1: The first Honda dealer sent us to a body shop. The body shop said that the panel needed to be replaced and painted. In addition, they needed to paint and blend in the door. The cost would be $1100.

Quote 2: The second place we checked was a Honda dealer and they said that they would paint and replace the fender, but with either white or black cars (our car is white), the blending part is unnecessary. Their cost: $600.

Quote 3: The 3rd place (another Honda dealer) gave us the same quote as the first shop (same work, same price), saying that white or not, you need to blend it in and that if we took it to the second shop, they would be calling us to say that the the color needed blending after all. (They were insinuating that the second shop-a Honda dealer- was being dishonest.)

So... My question is, can I skip the blending and have the car look brand new, or is the 3rd guy right.

The car is white. Although we bought it a couple of weeks ago, it was manufactured in June. I also do not know anyone who has used any of these shops before. Any advice?

Mr_Shiftright

I called a friend who runs a top notch body shop in California and he told me you rarely have to blend white, as it's a clear coat color anyway. He says he only blends white once in a blue moon on new cars.

Of course, this presumes the body shop is competent to begin with.

aallred

Bumper sticker? Check with Finishmaster and find the name of a lot painter. They go around to car lots and do touch-ups.

aallred

Blending is the right way to repair your car.
The guy in Cal. is right most painters will not blend white if they can help it. When the car is in the sun light it will be very hard to see the differents in the color. If shop 2 will guarantee you won't be able to see the color differents (not in bright light)and you check their references you may get a good deal.

aallred

POR 15 is the product name find it on e-bay or local auto paint store. The POR 15 will incapsulate the rust and pull all the moisture out of the rust. No moisture and rust can't grow. Put it on with a paint brush it will flow out flat. The best on the market.