Paint and Body Maintenance & Repair

bigfur

There is a saying in the auto painting world. White hides everything, black hides nothing. Meaning a white care will show less in the way of minor dings and paint imperfections, where as black you will notice every little thing.

lb200412

I am looking into repainting my nissan sentra specv and i was wonder if anyone could tell me how much paint would be recommended

tallman1

Sorry I'm late in responding.... I've been away from here for awhile.

I'd say your friend is pretty smart.... great products. I've been very impressed with their paint sealant... waxing will have to be done every 3 months or so. The paint sealant lasts much longer.

kmauss

Hello! I'm new to these boards, but I have already found them to be very helpful. I was casually car shopping yesterday and I happened upon a 2006 "leftover" that is very tempting. The car is beautiful -- it also happens to be black. I have heard that black paint is very hard to maintain, especially if your car sits outside, which this one would do most of its life, and I live in PA, the acid rain capital of the northeast. I'm not a complete car freak, but I do try to keep my cars looking decent, and I dont' want to obligate myself to an insane amount of care just to keep from having a grey car in a few years. So can anyone offer me some insights? Many thanks! Karen

digicam

So stupid me was backing up my new '07 Denali & scraped the rear bumper on the passenger side pretty bad. . .ARRGGHH!!!! From what I see there is no dents in the bumper and doesn't look like I need another one. I was just wondering if anybody would know how much I would have to pay to have it fixed & if they would have to re-paint the entire bumper since it's white. Also, would the cost of the re-painting be more since I have the newest model & not a earlier model??

Any info is much apprecated.

tallman1

Black is very tough to maintain but it looks great when it is clean. You have to be very careful how you wash it because it shows swirl marks easily. I have always stayed away from black because here in the Pacific Northwest, I'd be washing it every couple of days.

bigfur

Probably looking at about a $500 dollar repair give or take. They SHOULD (in order to repair it right) take he bumper cover off the truck, take all the trim off it. They should reclear the entire bumper, with white its easy to blend the color part of the repair to the undamaged area, but according to GM specs they should reclear the entire bumper. Dont suppose you can convince the dealership it happened when they still had it huh? lol Goodluck with it.

lindon

Vehicle with trailer hitch backed into my T & C and punched a hole in the front facia between the grill and bumper. I have the piece that was punched out and would like to bond it back in place. Any comments on the best way to do this? Thanks!

bigfur

Really isnt a good way to fix it. There is a rarely used art form called plastic welding, but that is someone that only a well trained professional could do. Most likely is you'll have to replace the entire piece it came off of.

qbrozen

depends on how good of a job you want done. If you just want to stick the piece in there, I suggest superglue and a piece of ducttape on the backside for extra insurance.

if you want it to look GOOD, then you gotta go with a full replacement. The guy's insurance paid for it to be fully replaced, didn't they?

lindon

Didn't see it happen, but strongly suspect that was the case based on what was parked in front. So, any insurance coverage would have to be mine which I'd like to avoid. If it were much newer than 2001, I'd be more concerned about appearance, but I think the glued in piece would look better than a hole. How about glueing it in and then fill the joint in with that sandable PC7 epoxy, followed by some touch up paint?

qbrozen

well, sure, if you just want to fill the hole, you can play around with various solutions. It may even fit tight enough that the joint won't bother you. Just gotta try it and see.

1racefan

IF you are mainly concerned about looks....

I know a guy that had this happen to him once. He was able to find a license plate bracket, and mounted it over the hole in his bumper, and then put a decorative license plate in the bracket. Just a suggestion depending on where the hole is located.

denster76

My ’97 areostar was in for routine maintenance when it was DROPPED 8’ from a hoist. What are the chances of the frame/chassis being bent?

Thank You

qbrozen

huH??
what the heck was it doing on a hoist?? Does it get transported by sea to get service?? (that last part is a little joke)

I'd say chances of damage beyond the value of the vehicle are pretty good.

bigfur

Obviously it depend on how the vehical landed but odds are the frame will be bend slightly. I was guess the damage to the body panels and paint work will probably more then total the vehical. Then again without seeing it i couldnt say for sure.

divenport

Hello everyone, I am trying to get an estimate/approximation for a two tone paint job on a 1962 Mercedes 190D. I am finding little info online and thought you all might have some guesses. I don't want to go cheap. I want it done well but I don't have the first idea what I can expect to pay. This could very well be the deciding factor in a purchase...

Thanks...
:sick:

Mr_Shiftright

It's kind of hard to give an estimate because we don't really know what standards you are trying to achiever. For instance:

Do you want the engine bay and door jambs and trunk repainted?

Do you want all the trim and glass removed, or just taped?

How much body work is involved?

What part of the country are you in?

Some Ideas: When you see or hear about cars painted for $500--$1,500, this is generally done quickly, sloppily and with inferior materials. It looks okay from 20 feet away and might last a year or two. But quality work costs quite a bit of money because a) really good paint and primer is very expensive and b) the labor involved is very extensive.

So just guessing I'd say $5,000 minimum and then up from there, depending on all the factors I mentioned above--tape work is cheaper, and not doing engine bay and door jamps is cheaper and single colors are cheaper than two-tones.

But whatever method you choose, you have to face the reality that the paint job will cost more than your car is worth (in dollar terms I mean) and that even all painted up and pretty your car won't be worth the cost of the job.

And that's perfectly fine as long as you know that going in.

But shop around. If you get a very attractive price be sure to ask about warranties and ask to see their work and look at their facilities.

benztuner

There are a couple different ways to do this. You need to figure out what you want out of the car, ie if you're going to keep it for a long time or if you just want to get the paint looking good to sell it, etc. If you are going to keep the car and you're looking for a solid long lasting paint job then you need to do some research on the shops you're thinking about taking the car to.
The $5,000.00 is somewhat accurate for a complete exterior paint job. The cost increases if you want more obviously. Also Ive run into a number of problems when working on older cars, in particular Mercedes-Benz. Most likely you'll have to replace all of the weather strips and seals, because if the seals are original they are probably worthless. Many times they will still serve their purpose however when you take them off to paint the car they usually fall apart. I would warn you to be ready for a number of problems, when a car that old is taken apart completely there are bound to be a lot of things that break, fall apart, or get lost throughout the process.
The paint job will definately cost more than what the car is worth. If you dont know, you should have Glasurit paint put on the car. Glasurit paint is some of the best paint in the world, and it is what Mercedes-Benz uses at the factory. Glasurit paint also comes with a life-time warranty. I would check around the local shops in town and then do some research on each shop and then make your decision.

baengle6

Another car scraped my left front fender in the parking lot leaving several black marks of an unknown substance. This bump did not leave any dents. I tried washing, WD40 and then Bug and Tar cleaner. Nothing worked. I read somewhere that the newer fenders are made of a rubber like plastic and wonder if this is now on my fender. Any recommendations on getting this material removed would really be appreciated.

benztuner

Hi, I think your best chance at getting the marks off is going to be compound/glaze. I am not sure if you can get it in local automotive stores. Compound is a substance that has a small amount of grit mixed into a cleaner/wax. Compound will take most of these marks out, as long as there is no deep scratch or dent. After you use the compound you usually put glaze back over the same area, the glaze is like compound but the grit is extremely fine and it helps to buff out the larger scratches that the compound creates as it is cleaning the black marks. Like I said, Im not sure if you have access to these materials, I dont recall ever seeing them in retail auto stores however if you go to a bodyshop or detail shop they might take the marks out for no cost *depending on how large the marks are* If a customer comes to my shop with a similar problem we'll help them out as much as possible, and if it doesnt completely work then we'll give them an estimate on correcting the damage. I would be sure to carefully select what you put on your paint, there are solvents and chemicals that can be very bad for paint. The compound/glaze that we use is made by 3M. You could probably get it at a automotive paint/prep material store that sells directly to bodyshops.

divenport

Thanks Mr_Shiftright,
that is helpful, especially in regards to all the extra old bits that might fall apart. Wouldn't have thought much about that. What I'm working on is of a more artistic nature and if I get anywhere with it I'll be sure to repost. Thanks again,

Divenport

Mr_Shiftright

Some body shops will allow the customer to remove most of the trim and this might save you some $$$ and take responsibility off them for the safety of some of the "unobtainium" parts on older cars.

You can still make a car look very nice without taking out all the glass, window seals and trim...if it's not for "show" a "tape job" is good enough and a lot cheaper.

Bottom line for a decent=looking paint job IMO is a) the prep work prior to painting and b) the quality of the paint you use.

benztuner

Well not all bodyshops are created equal and they certainly dont put out the same quality of work. It is our SOP to remove all glass, trim and seals everytime we paint a car; now I know that not many people do it this way, but it is our belief that it is done this way in the factory and the factory look is what we shoot for. Now we do charge more than some people and it does take a little bit longer, however in 10 years when the paint still looks great *if its been taken care of properly* you arent going to remember it took a little extra money and a week longer than the other guy. But it does depend on what you're hoping to achieve with the work, and the cost should reflect the desired look so sometimes the way we do things isnt needed. I will agree, the important essentials for a good paint job is quality prep work in at least 2-3 stages, a quality tape job, and the quality of the product. Good luck with your car, I hope it turns out beautiful.
Joshua

baengle6

Thank you for replying to my question. I went to the local Kragen Store and the clerk came out and looked at my fender. He said it appears that the paint was rubbed off and the black showing is actually my bumper. I went to www.urethanesupply.com and ordered some paint and primer for bumper material. Then I ordered from www.langka.com a kit to re-paint the damage. If this doesn't work, I'll probably end up having it painted by professionals.

There was another answer to my question but I wasn't able to find the reply. Thanks to that individual too.

benztuner

Im glad I was able to help you. I obviously dont know what the damage looks like but as long as there are no deep scratches, or wide gouges then you should be ok. Depending on how bad the damage is we usually sand it all down, use a little filler to even the rough spots out, sand it down again, then prime and sand again, then clean with a pre-paint cleaner like Glasurit's 700, and finally shoot it. I am curious to know what the "kit" is you bought from www.langka.com to re-paint the damage? I am not familiar with anything like that and would like to know more about it like what comes in the kit? how much was the kit? who makes the kit? etc.
Well you should get an estimate of what it would cost for a shop to fix and paint the damage, I would think they should repair and paint the fender and bumper, and blend the hood and door, and if the estimate costs more than the kit and the material you ordered then you might want to try to fix it yourself. If the estimate is less than the kit and materials you ordered then you should consider letting the shop do it that way it will save you some money and more importantly time and aggravation. I hope you get it all sorted out either way. Good luck!

baengle6

I called it a kit. What I ordered from www.langka.com was called Langka Paint Chip and Scratch Repair that is shown on their web site. You might want to look at their site. It was priced at $39.95.

Not sure where I heard the name Langka but the product sounds like it will work. I ordered the paint to match the color of my 1999 Camry from www.automotivetouchup.com. I also ordered 1/2 oz of primer (for use of adhesion to metal and plastic. Primer also helps to fill the scratches).

benztuner

Thanks for the reply about the kit. Im interested in knowing how the final result looks. Whenever you get it done let me know how hard it was and what it looks like. Good luck again.

pinkytuscadero

I bought a 2006 Honda Civic in Sept. 05. It was on the lot less than 2 hours when I got the call. While we were signing and initialing the car was taken back for it's complimentary bath. In the buffing stage some sort of abrasive made it's way onto the buffer pad. The driver side door is the only panel that escaped. I was back at the dealership the next morning in search of a solution. There solution was simple, they spent the next month applying one band-aid after another on the eye-sore. The morning of my last visit I was told there best man was on the job and he would take care of me. He took care of me alright, when I saw the half-[non-permissible content removed] results that afternoon the will to fight left. The anger and frustration I had felt the previous thirty days had taken a toll on me. Jump forward 18 months, I am renewed and refreshed and ready to rumble. Do I stand a chance in having my car re-painted or will the only Honda Dealership on Arapahoe Road in South Denver get off scott free? Thank you for your time and I look forward to your comments.

bigfur

Unless you still have all your paperwork from then they may get away with it. Specially since its no 18 monthes later and they can say it happened in between that time since you accepted the car and didnt come back. I think you would have a very long up hill fight for this one.

shanecbx3

Well…my brother and I were backing out of a parking space in a busy parking lot, when we backed into the Lexus (good thing it wasn’t one of the Bentleys, Lamborghini's, etc. that are regularly near there)

Back to the story, the damage was to his back left side/corner of the bumper. The side panel was pushed in and had a lot of our cars paint on it. I am kinda concerned about the top left panel (circled in green in the picture), it looks like the paint is chipping away. The back tail light had a very small crack in it and was a slightly scraped on the bottom edge. I got down and looked under the car and from what I could tell there no damage to the car frame.

So is there anyone with body shop experience that could give me a figure for the damage. My friends dad may be able to help get the dent out and order parts for cheap... Does anything needa be replaced?

I appreciate everyones help and input...

Here are some photos on photobucket:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/shanecbx3/PIC-0081.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/shanecbx3/PIC-0080.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f365/shanecbx3/PIC-00810.jpg

baengle6

Finally finished with the paint and waxed the bumper. It looks 95% better than it did before. There are two little spots which I might re-do since they turned out a bit different than the other scratches. These two little spots were caused by the cleaner taking off the top coat above the actual scratches.

Would I do it again? Yes. The first paint color was wrong. I ordered it for a 99 Camray and the second time looked on the door and ordered the correct color because the car was manufactured in 1989 and sold the first time in 99. Live and learn they say.

benztuner

Some more advice about parts and paint from dealerships. You should really watch parts departments. Ive been around dealerships besically my entire life and they are all about money. Now Im not saying they are out to get you but I have known some parts guys to give the wrong paint knowing the customer will mess it up more than it was, hoping they'll bring the car in to be fixed at the dealership shop. Also, you've got to know that most parts people arent especially smart. We work with parts departments everyday, from BMW to Mercedes, Lexus and Porsche, every parts department has a trend. Usually there is only 1 guy who is good at his job, the others are normally stock boys posing as parts guys. So just so you know, be aware and check all the numbers. Good Luck. Joshua

Mr_Shiftright

I think you'll have to re-skin the bumper. It doesn't look repairable, or at least not a repair that the owner will want to look at very closely.

So you have to price out the bumper skin + painting it plus repair of that upper panel + tail light lens.

I'm just guessing here but I'd say to do a nice job on a nice car it would be $500 to paint and match the skin and install it + parts price of the skin ($300? $500?) plus refinish the upper panel and blend the paint ($600)....so you're probably looking at $1,500--$2,000 damage.

Yeah, dealers and such get people to come in and patch up and repaint bumpers, but it's not the best quality and as an owner of a nice shiny car, I wouldn't let you fix my car that way.

You may wish to claim this on your insurance. Usually if your claim is over $1,500, it's worth making a claim vs. the rise in rates you'll get.

bigfur

I think im gonna have to respectfully disagree with you here Shifty. The bumper should not need to be replaced. Just the paint sanded off and a lil poly fill to take care of the deep scratches. Repaint the bumper and it'll be good as new. The quarter panel will need probably about two hours body time and repaint. Guessing ball park of around 800-1000 dollars to repair.

Mr_Shiftright

Well that's one way to fix it, but if you back into my nice car, I'm not letting you fill it with glob, no way. (nothin' personal you understand). I had a OEM virgin bumper before you backed into it, and that's what I want back. Not an unreasonable demand.

Now if it were my OWN car, I'd do it your way, for sure.

bigfur

I just go the way the insurance companies do . Cheap a$$es. Making my comments off what i have seen while working in the body shop.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I'm sure you're right. Well maybe the victim of this little incident will be okay with that kind of repair....let us hope.

kkl1

I have previously used Zaino car polish with excellent results on my 1998 Honda Prelude. I tried claying for the first time on my Acura 2006 TSX before using Zaino car wax. Due to my inexperience with claying and perhaps rushing the job, I left fine hair-sized scratches all over the paint. I didn't see these until I after I applied the Zaino wax. I don't think I penetrated the clear coat completely. Any recommendations for removing or minimizing the scratches?

Thanks much,
Ken

benztuner

Depending on how deep and how bad the scratches are, that will dictate what you will have to do to fix it. I hear a lot of people saying that you should clay bar a car and then put wax on it to make it better. I dont think you should clay bar a car unless there is a good reason for it, such as overspray or something. You can try to use compound and glaze to take it off. If I had to recommend a compound/glaze, I would use the 3M Perfect-It III, there is a extra cut compound and glaze. This is some of the best stuff Ive found out there, it is really amazing. So if I was you I would try to buff them out and glaze the entire car, that way when you get done you should not have any scratches and the car should be slick like you waxed it. Unfortunately if that doesnt work you'll have to look at painting the car, but if it was done with a clay bar and the clay bar was clean you should be fine with compounding and glazing the car. Let me know if it works and if it doesnt. Good luck. Joshua.

tallman1

It is hard for anyone here to determine how deep the scratches are but you will probably be able to polish them out with a good polish. There are several sources that discuss this and a number of products to choose from. You may need to use a machine to do a proper job.

If this happened during the claying process, you must have picked up a small grain of something and then never reworked the clay. Otherwise, you got the scratches another way. From the cloth used to wipe of the clay lubricant perhaps.

ryan77300d

May I ask what "clay bar" is, and how to use it?

Some sort of very unskilled person repainted one side of my car, and there is overspay on everything, particularily on the data plates on the inside of the drivers doorjamb, and some more on the rear bumper rubber. Anywho, knowing what clay bar is, and the basics on using it would be great.

Thanks in advance

-Ryan

tallman1

Clay is a nifty way to really clean things off your car that you can't get off by washing. The basic process is to use some sort of lubricant and then rub a piece of automotive clay over the area. All the little goobers come off onto the clay. If you've never done it to your car, you will be amazed at the results. Next time you wash your car, run your fingers over the paint. You will feel tiny bumps on the surface. The clay will remove them.

You can learn more about it in several places. One option is here: Detailer's Handbook

rocurium

Hi there,

I am located in Baltimore. I dent and scratch my car (passenager door) and is interested to have the scracth repaired. I thought of body shop and is lost with the internet search. Does anyone know how much the repair cost will be?

Thanks

benztuner

The cost of the repair depends on how bad the damage is. If the dent isnt too bad you could have PDR done, and the scratch may buff out. If it wont buff out you'll have to have it painted, this is where shops differ. Depending on where the dent is, you may need to blend the fender or rear door. If you can get the dent PDR'ed then it might cost $200-300, to paint the door would be approx. $750 and to blend a panel $400. So it could cost $1500.00 at the most, it could cost more or less depending on the damage and the shop. You should just get an estimate from a shop then you'll know what it will take and how much it should cost.

benztuner

everyone has their own opinion but i wouldnt repair the bumper and if someone hit me i would only take a new bumper. It looks like it is pushed in where it is hit. I mean you can fill it, I guess you can put filler in anything but, well you know. If you are going to fix your car then you might want to think about turning it in on insurance. The thing is is that you're kind stuck because you hit the other person so they can ask for whatever they want within reason. If they want a new bumper, to fix and paint the quarter, depending on whether the tail light was forced into the decklid there might be some scratches on the edge of the decklid so it might have to be painted, they might want a new tail light or a used one....but either way it could end up costing a good little bit of money. And if your car has damage too, then it could be even more. If you're going to turn the Lexus in on your insurance then you should turn your car's damage in too, depending on your deductible. Good luck with everything. Joshua.

benztuner

Clay bar warning. You should go buy a brand new clay bar, and one of the best solutions to use with the clay bar is a spray wax. Look at a automotive specialty store for spray wax or on the internet. A good spray wax will give you that lubricant surface you'll need to make moving the clay bar easier and the spray wax will also leave your car with a slightly waxed feeling. Also be careful with the clay bar, if you're unsure spply slight pressure at first and increase as needed; you need to keep the clay bar clean!!! I always wash my car before I clay bar it, wash everything very thoroughly and leave the car wet. If possible it would be good to do it covered or inside. When I get a new clay bar I always open it up and cut it in two, then use 1 side. After you do a small area fold the clay on-top of itself to get more surface area out of the bar. DO NOT DROP. If you drop the clay bar I would discard that piece, which is why I cut it in 2 parts. I would spray a panel down with the wax, do a small area of the panel and spray more wax and so on. When you get to an new panel rinse the previous with water getting all the wax off and then fold the clay on top of itself for the new panel and so on until the entire car is done. You may not have to do the bumpers and should probably stay away from rockers. A lot of times if you clay bar a car and then put a good polish or wax on top, the car will look great. I like Zaino. I usually wash my car, clay bar the entire car, take a slight Zaino abrasive and put it on with a machine, then do the entire Zaino wax system....the car looks incredible. But thats what I do, you find what is best for you and your car. Again, if you're new to the clay bar be carefull it can cause more problems than you originally had. Good luck.

bigfur

Bumpers are just plastic. So as far as being pushed in they go in as far as the metal. Once you unbolted that bumper, it would go back to nearly the same shape it was in in before. Mainly depends on what the tech and insurance company want to do. Little known fact but the tech working on the car as quite a bit of say in the repair too.

shadoesc

My daughter's 2002 Volvo S60 was rear ended and Allstate wants to repair the car by "clipping" the rear end. The car is at my friends body shop - he has over 30 years experience - and he feels the car should be totaled (Allstate adjuster only want to pay $4800). When I called my Allstate insurance agent and pretended to ask about insurance for a car with a CARFAX indicating repairs by clipping - he said he would be very careful about buying a car like that and that he personally would not - hmmmm. I have searched the internet on the safety and depreciation of such vehicles and do not have much information. Does anyone have experience fighting repair by clipping?

Mr_Shiftright

OH man, fighting insurance companies is hard (but I encourage you to do it) since most of the regulations were writtent o favor---guess who?---insurance companies. Case in point---the arbitration clause of your policy---gee, you just gave away your right to sue them---

Anyway, the problem is this---a properly repaired clipped car might be "as good as new"---after all, many of those $1 million dollar classic cars you see being sold on TV are pieced together, and beautifully done as you can see; however, these classics don't have to worry about DE-preciation....as they are AP-preciating. But a Volvo S60 is a depreciation vehicle and will always be one.

Here's one route you can take---since it was a third party that hit your car, you CAN sue the other insurance company for "Diminution of Value" (you can't generally sue your own company for this). The DMV is in fact, the difference in value between a nice untouched S60 and your clipped one (regardless of how well it is repaired--we are talking about the divulgence of the accident affecting the value).

Insurance companies fight DMV but you can win. This requires an appraiser that you have to hire for this process.

As for preventing YOUR insurance company from clipping the car, you'd best call your State Insurance Board and see what Fair Settlement Practices are in place to protect (or screw) you. You have to read your policy and see what you signed regarding what the insurance company is allowed or not allowed to do. It varies a lot state to state.

I have to say I'm puzzled that a car with only $4,800 would have to be clipped. I don't see why you can't pull it--but I haven't seen the damage, so can't say more...

It's a mess. Just remember next time how little your insurance company helped you out here.

Here's an interesting web site. I'm not presuming that your insurance company is practicing bad faith (some companies are very good once you talk to the right person), but just in case...

http://www.badfaithinsurance.org/