Saturn ION

dindak

Man, we were lucky. We had Stairway to Heaven in 1987.

vcjumper

I guess someone on the marketing team had the same prom theme as me in 90.

vuefor2

I guess that Alphaville music will appeal to a lot of younger buyers which is why they used it. Makes sense I suppose. Everyone I have seen driving an Ion is under 30 so far.

debdoozy

Forever Young was also my high school graduation song in 1989. Can't wait to see what sort of commercial they come up with for the Quad.

dindak

Alphaville sucks.. Zeppelin rules!

I guess Cadillac has the Zep though.

ab348

This time from the NY Times (free registration may be required):

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/new/2003/saturn/ion/100184104/roadtest- article.html?articleId=89616

GM seems to have not made many friends with this car.

logic1

That is the Edmunds' review. Edmunds is now the NYTimes automobile partner. Wonder if the Edmunds' reporters are paid as well a NYTimes reporter would be?

dindak

I think the ION will likely get lots of so so reviews for a few reason.

1) Power doesn't seem to be as good as the 140hp indicates
2) Center IP is hated by all reviewers
3) They always compare the car with the Corolla which has better quality on the interior/ dash. That said, it's average for this segment IMO.

I have still not driven one, but people who own them and reviewers seem to all say the ride quality is good. I think the car it self is good, but not the best in class and its a bit quirky so it will get panned by some.

amackenzie

We had an ION as a loaner while our L200 was in for service. Loved the ION's handleing! Can't decide between it and a VUE when we replace the L ( a so-so SATURN).

ab348

It's actually a different article from the Edmunds road test.

regfootball

why does quirky have to be GM's norm...?

regfootball

but my ears perk up when i see

"200 hp engine next year"

xlra8

anyone looking at the ION, should take a quick test drive in a hyundai elantra GT. it's a much better car and you get leather, 4 wheels disc brakes, power everything standard, 10 year warranty at a lower price. im not a salesman. i've driven them all and Elantra GT is a jewel. we have 12K miles on my wifes GT and everything is working great, it's has the coldest A/C and best heating you will find on any car. like i said take a test drive in the elantra and you'll be back here thanking me for it.

vocus

I heard a radio commercial touting 0% financing for 60 months. It said for ANYONE who wants to buy an ION. To me, 'anyone' means just that. Are they still checking credit, or is Saturn becoming that hard-up for customers?

Just curious. Thanks.

vocus

Elantra is definitely a good value, but some still haven't gotten over the Korean car stigma, and some rightfully so.

logic1

There is a legal concept known as puffery that allows advertisers to make general statements that are nevertheless subject to qualifications.

GMAC is a financial institution and is subject to lending restrictions just like any other financial institution.

Of course the offer of credit is not going to extend to people who do not qualify for credit.

vocus

I kinda figured that, but the way they made it sound, anyone could get 0%.

drivinisfun

To qualify for 0% car loans, you have to be a "Tier A1" customer or in other words have a beacon score of 700+, good debt to credit ratio and generally a pristine record history.

If you don't comply with any of the above, don't bother to apply for subsidized 0% loans. Get a copy of your credit report and start on working to get your credit repaired. Takes time but the payoff is great later on. (I am not encouraging the use of bogus credit repair 'clinics', rather you developing healthy and responsible financial habits to improve your credit standing)

Too much debt, too many credit cards, late payments, charge offs, liens, judgements, bankruptcies, et al will not land you a bank loan or at least a loan with a decent interest rate.

logic1

Someone should smack the copywriter for making such a poorly worded radio commercial.

When I was in law school I worked the first summer with an advertising company law department. The copywriter always try to push on what they claim to the very edge of what the law allows.

In my opinion, that sort of thing never really helps the client (in this case, Saturn).

vocus

I tried to talk my 24-year old friend out of claiming bankruptcy, especially since she has 2 kids and doesn't own a house or car (her total debt was about $15K). She claimed anyway. She then had trouble getting a place to live. I told her that she should have listened to me.

My credit is not perfect, but I closed pretty much all of my credit cards and am paying them off one by one. None late though, and that totally matters when going for a loan.

dindak

xlra8 : Korean cars still rank last in terms of reliability and resale. Quality is up no doubt, but it will be a long time before I can get past the Sportage and a few others made one a year or two ago.

vocus : I find GMAC up here very lenient. They let my brother in law buy a Grand Prix GTP and he has a horrid credit past.

speedingticket

I passed by a Saturn dealer today and checked out the new ION. For the price, you do get a big car for a small car price. I like the interior (though many don't) and found the trunk to be bigger than the S-Series it replaced. On the downside, while others like Toyota and Honda are improving fuel economy, Saturn's fuel economy is worse than the S. With gas prices as they are now, I am disappointed that Saturn decided to go with an engine that is less fuel efficient. Another sign that Saturn is becoming just another GM product.

dindak

Going from 110 hp to 140 hp has it's price. Fuel economy is still good with the Ecotec and you get a nice size car.

vocus

Well pretty much any financing company will let you buy a car, but it's the interest rate they will kill you with.

vuefor2

Our mileage on the Ion is now pretty close to the advertised rates. I think it's a touch lower because of the cold snaps and snow. May not be best in class, but it's good and we like the car so 1 or 2 mpg here or there makes no big diff.

I don't think the Ion is quirky. I guess some people associate being a little different as quirky, but the only big think with the Ion is the center IP. Big deal!

Would never buy a Korean car. My sister's Hyundia has been very poor in terms of quality / reliability and she is looking at getting a Mazda Protege to replace it soon.

vocus

What nodel/year of Hyundai does your sister have?

I had 2 Proteges in the past, and they were very reliable cars. I wanted a Jetta though, that's the only reason I got rid of the last one.

I don'r think of the center IP as quirky. It's different, but not quirky. I have never driven an ION on the road, but did drive an ECHO. Got used to the dash panel within an hour or so, and it was no problem for me.

dindak

He got 0% for 48 months on his GTP.

I don't know how he did it, but he always seems to get away with stuff regardless of his past poor credit.

vocus

Now that really does surprise me, because usually your 'Beacon score' is held down by negative acts on your credit report.

petebuicksales

The cutoff for 0% loans from GMAC is 730, with a caveat: Sometimes the dealer has enough pull with good-credit loans that they can push through a less than perfect credit score (e.g. 675) by packaging the loan with others of exemplary credit. I've seen this done quite a few times. However, any auto-loan gone bad (late pays, repo, and or bk) will exclude you from any top-level financing from any institution.

I think we've gotten a little off-topic. My thoughts on the ION sedan: too heavy, too slow, not enough mpg, interior designed by mental patients. It's just disappointing that I will have to hang onto my old 93SL1 until I can get into something nicer .oO(maybe a Regal GS, mmmm)

saturnfreak01

"Going from 110 hp to 140 hp has it's price"

  Isn't it going from 100hp in the sohc engine (SL,SL1) ....?

speedingticket

Is more power really necessary? I mean how much do you really need? I had a '94 SL that was no neck snapper but it was always enough power. With hybrid technology and more efficient diesels being developed, you'd think Saturn (being the "different" company) would have gone this route. I'm just disappointed that they think 30 miles per gallon is acceptable. Honda and Toyota's minimum claimed MPG is about 40 now.

regfootball

"interior designed by mental patients"

LOL! TOO FUNNY!

1997montez34

Saturn is carrying a 143 days supply of Ions. They're shutting down production for 2 weeks. Not good. Hopefully the people responsible for that abomination of a car will be purged from GM.

dindak

The main reason supply is so high is that the marketing campain started 3-4 weeks late. Apparently sales are going alright now.

vocus

I hear that Saturn is taking a 2-week hiatus in production of the ION. If everyone remembers, the same thing happend when the L-Series was first introduced. We all see how that ended up, with Saturn breaking their own no-haggle policies and giving rebates just to move the cars.

vocus

I saw the new Saturn commerical everyone has been talking about on this site. The one where they have the "People Dealership", and all the Saturns are driving around. It's too cool! I love the look of the Quad Coupe as well. Had forgotten how cool it looks from the front, since it's been a couple months since I have seen one in person.

saturnfreak01

I agree, I saw the commercial for the first time this evening on the WB of all stations, and think is was very well done. It gives me some hope for Saturn's future..

drivinisfun

The commercial with the "cars shopping for people" is the only brilliantly done one in an otherwise serial string of very poorly made Saturn commercials, particularly, the ones for the ION sedan.

I still contend that the ION is a disjointed car, with no style, no ground braking tecnology absolutely nothing going for it...just another generic/Blah product aimed at the hardcore Saturn/GM fan base.

Too bad that the Delta platform has been wrapped in such controversial looking car such as the ION. I think GM would have had much more sucess replacing the cuaternary-era Cavalier with a Chevy/Delta platform small sedan.

And I agree with Pete Buick about the interior design....made by a commitee of interior design apprentices....

If you wanna see how a worldclass small car interior is done RIGHT, just take a peek inside a VW Jetta/Golf or a MINI Cooper.

Saturn is in big trouble. As soon as the 2004 Chevy Malibu starts arriving in Chevy showrooms in a couple of months, watch the Saturn L Series sales drop like a big rock!

I am not sure what Bob Lutz is thinking of doing with this lost case division...if I were him, I would pull the plug at the Springhill, TN assembly plant or convert that plant to build something more desirable like the Pontiac Solstice roadster...

regfootball

the malibu with swooshes cannot come to soon.

dindak

drivin : yes, we all know you hate the ION.

vocus : I really liked the QUad Coupe at the auto show. It's definitely a nicer looking car than the sedan and they had real cool colors.

afk_x

Re: Posts 1200 and 1211

**This is completely off topic but the truth must be heard**

Since I work for a Saturn dealership I know who does and who does not get the special 0% APR rates. Saying you need to have perfect credit or 700+ score is inaccurate.

GMAC uses a scoring system based upon a large variety of factors including your FICO or BEACON score. Their computer calculates the odds of a customer paying their loan based upon these factors.

The scoring system rates the customer from A-E. A is the best, E the worst. A GMAC credit analyst then takes a look and approves or disapproves the customer.

Generally speaking, all A customers will get the special rates. Most B customers also. C tier is often approved, with D being rare and E tier very rarely.

I have had quite a few customers get approved for the special rates who had less than a 600 FICO or Becon score. It depends on a whole lot more than just credit score...

One thing that is nice is GMAC is very loyal to its good paying customers. I had a customer who had HORRIBLE credit. Bankrupcy, 2 repos, and a FICO score less than 500. However they were coming out of a 36 month lease and had been perfect with their GMAC auto loan. They were an E tier but approved for 0% APR.

afk_x

Doom and gloom for Saturn?

ION is selling well out here in Southern California....

The Edmunds review was pretty harsh, but their bias towards performance is quite obvious. Thats fine because as a "Car guy" I have the same slant. Most folks could care less.

The part of the Edmunds review I don't understand is where they talk about noise levels. The ION may not be the holy grail of compacts but it definately is very quiet FOR a compact. They mentioned the Protege - now THATS a loud car....

Anyways I haven't heard of any IONs being returned under the 30 day policy due to the seats causing back pain, so I discount that as well....

ab348

Not likely with a 140+ days supply on hand and production suspended.

The quirky looks and interior design might be forgiveable if the rest of the car performed in a superior way. But given the reviews, that apparently is not the case. Sadly, GM appears to have misstepped badly once again. Could the Ion be the vehicle that marks the beginning of the end for Saturn?

It's very sad. I am now in a position to be buying a new vehicle in the next couple of months. I have a ton of GM Card cash I could use (even on a Saturn here in Canada). But none of GMs offerings are competitive. That GM Card money will likely go to waste.

saturnfreak01

"Could the Ion be the vehicle that marks the beginning of the end for Saturn?"

 I don't think so.. The ION is one car, that will probably receive significant updates and changes in two or three model years should sales continue to be lack luster.

  The VUE is Saturn's brightest star, outselling the CRV and RAV4 in recent months. The L Series will be replaced in 2005/2006.

 Also, given Saturn has a minivan due out in 2004 that will help keep more customers with the brand, even if it is a rebadged Chevy Venture.

bigdaddycoats

is in trouble? The VUE is a star at the moment but what happens when the Equinox comes out? I think this will be very bad for the VUE and steal sales. The Eq is beautiful and will be priced about the same as the VUE. The L has never sold well and I do not see that changing any time soon. The ION is pretty good but has taken a beating in every review that I have read. If anyone knows of a positive review I would love to read it. So now Saturn is offering cash back on all models - that is not a good sign. Yes, the marketing for the ION was late and inventory has built up but, I would guess sales are not what what they hoped for and now incentives are being used on a brand new model. Just my take on things.

usaf52

E-mailed a request to Saturn for an ION booklet. For starters they should hire another ad agency. One full page is of a "public market" sign and the sky beyond. Three full pages are devoted to a female model with an idiotic smile on her face. Another page shows a guy playing cards, a serving of hamburger and french fries etc. etc. ad nauseum. All but one of the car's photos are in the silver color. To display the other colors, only the front of the vehicle is shown. They have idiotic phases like "ION thirsts for asphalt as we thirst for oxygen" or some such pap. All in all, I wonder who they are trying to sell? If you're interested in french fries get the booklet, because info about the vehicle is sorely limited.

regfootball

if they showed actual pictures of the vehicle itself it would drive people away. Its time for GM to walk away from the Saturn experiment and divert all Saturn moneys to Chevy and strengthen the other divisions.

beach15

"Its time for GM to walk away from the Saturn experiment and divert all Saturn moneys to Chevy and strengthen the other divisions."

That's something I've been thinking a lot myself lately. I absolutely hate the commercials for the Ion and emailed Saturn about the first one, and am not a fan of the car, but I thought the loaded black sedan they had at an auto show was quite nice. Other than that, their just eccentric cars for eccentric people. The people who buy them love them, but they're in a very small minority of the regular public.

If I won one, I might keep it. I wouldn't buy one though...

a_l_hubcaps

usaf52-

I haven't seen that Ion brochure, but it reminds me of the 2000 Ford Focus brochure that I have. It is the worse piece of uninformative cliche-filled garbage I've ever seen. Had I been shopping for a car at that time, that brochure alone might have turned me off to the Focus. Some ad agencies seem to think they can sell cars the way they sell mouthwash or potato chips -- show a lot of happy people and associate that image with the product. I'm sorry, but when people are spending big money on a new car, they want information about the product, not a bunch of marketing.

-Andrew L

regfootball

true, i agree. but you know how those marketing types are....a lot of them are fluff and clueless about what motivates real people to spend real dollars.