Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Ion owners all seem to like their cars and I am certainly not a "Saturn fanatic". A little over a year ago we had 2 Hondas in our driveway. As for the Mini, nice car but not in the same price range as an Ion so no need to compare.
It's really too bad this forum has been hijacked by some roving trolls.
Ion is not a terrible car. Can't fault someone for buying one if that's what they like. On my shopometer in that class its maybe at #10 in that class. There are a lot of blatant things about it which explain the less than expected sales. Doesn't make it a bad car. Pointing those things out isn't 'negative'. Its constructive criticism. Life ain't all touchy feely.
The fix would be to start a new discussion: ION-Problems... and the HOST could remove all post that did not follow that line of thinking. That's what they did on the MINI Cooper Problems/Slutions board after one guy listed the 16 poblems he had in ten months and someone made a comment that did not add to the discussion.
That would leave this ION discussion open for the bashers to tell GM how to run their company. I don't care what bashingisfun thinks
While I did do a cursory inspection of the outside of an Ion on a dealer lot, I have not sat in or driven one. So, I can't speak to the interior quality and the powertrain. But stylistically, I don't think the Ion is a flop. And I suspect that sales numbers during the next year will show that it's not a flop in that department, either.
I think the very fact that a lot of Edmunds posters hate the Ion is actually a testament to its appropriateness for the Saturn brand. It's not a brand for enthusiasts, and GM would have missed the point if they tried to make it one. That's what they should be doing with Pontiac, not Saturn.
Just for some perspective, consider that many Edmunds posters love the Mazda 6. Now take a look at the sales numbers on that. Kind of saddening, actually, as I was hoping the 6 would be a hit. But the point is, Edmunds posters liking a car does not usually equal the general public liking it.
-Andrew L
soggydog : I have still not heard more than one or two very minor issues from any of the owners here, the car seems to be well made.
reg : Focus, the recall car king of the world. You must like spending time at dealership garages.
www.gmcard.com
I have a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty, paid scheduled maintenance for 3 years/36,000 miles and free 24 hour roadside assistance for 4 years.
This car is complete automotive nirvana.
Can you say that about a plasti-car like the Saturn?
It probably won't match the 60% residual off MSRP value after 48 months of use in the MINI Cooper.
Further...
Does you ION offer the following equipment standard?
* EBD (Electronic Brake force Distribution)
* CBC (Control Braking Cornering)
* Electronic Gas pedal
* 6 airbags (2 front, 2 side, 2 side curtain)
* ABS and 4 wheel disc brakes
* Dynamic Stability Control
Does it?
And if you want a car that really holds value, get a Jetta or Passat. They won awards for holding their value...
Also, I hear that MINIs share their engine designs with the Dodge Neon. Since you own one, is there any truth in that?
The TRITEC is a great engine and more so in Supercharged form. It made the 2003 Ward's Automotive best 10 engines in the world. (Sorry no ECOTEC among the winners).
As far as the resale value projections, ask directly the people at Automotive Leasing Guide (www.alg.com) that have awarded the MINI Cooper for having the highest residual projections in its class, about 60% off MSRP after 4 years which is even higher than the Mercedes Benz CLK.
I am aware of the high residuals in VW products as well. Too bad their bread and butter cars still are having quality control issues even after 5 years of continuous production, but I have a soft spot for Golfs and GTI's.
Not a single GM product or Saturn product for that matter.
If you don't respond, they have no reason to keep coming back.
This forum is no longer enjoyable, and it has not been since the addition of some non-saturn fans who shall remain nameless.
It is the responsibility of the host to read between the lines in my opinion, to see what member guidelines are being bent so horribly they might as well be broken.
The host has no basis for removing any message just because some discussion members don't like it. All are welcome to participate here, provided they post messages in accordance with the Membership Agreement.
Nowhere in the MA is it specified that if you don't like a vehicle you can't post in a discussion where it is the subject.
AGAIN... if you don't like what someone has to say, just ignore it. There is no requirement that you respond to comments which piss you off. Really!
Now, let's talk about the ION and not each other and not what the host should do.
Email me if you wish to pursue this. This subject is off-topic and disruptive -- further comments in this vein will be removed.
Thank you.
Already available this year in some states and coming next year is a new PZEV 2.3 litre engine that is being used in the Mazda6. That will make the Focus an even more enjoyable car to drive. The driving fun and personality that the Focus gives in return for its low price is amazing.
The Ion can only dream of being as good as the Focus.
Did you guys see the letter in Car and Driver from the guy who is unhapy with C/D just because they ripped the Ion.
Why do Saturn fans think their car is above criticism. NO CAR is above criticism. If Car and Driver wants to give their honest opinion about how much they dislike the car, ? Obviously the car did nothing for them.
I've seen recent pics of a new design for the Opel Astra that I think would be a huge hit here. At one time it was also thought to be the next Cavalier. But now that plan has most likely changed. The fact that the next Cav will be on the Delta platform is not a bad thing. But, lets hope it otherwise shares as little as possible with the Ion.
Anybody else seen these? They looked quite nice.
Mikey
As some know, I purchased a L200 auto, with leather, sunroof, advanced audio, 16 inch wheels, everything except ABS and Onstar.
That is not to say the ION doesn't do well in areas that matter. My likes and dislikes of the ION are as follows..
Pros
Proven Ecotec engine, good horsepower, quieter than the 1.9 used in the S Series. More comfortable than the S Series, w/ rebates/ and incentives An ION can be had for less than an S Series with more equiptment.
Cons
The styling, while it is a decent looking car imo, something with a hint of Nissan or Subaru in the styling would have created a bigger splash for the ION's intoduction.
5 speed automatic, works better than the 4 speed but cuts the 0-60 times too much..
Weight of the ION, also cuts down on 0-60 times.
Other than those things, I like the ION however wish it was styled with a more contempory look like the 2003 L Series. IMHO
Hell my Diamante gets better gas mileage than an Ion even.
I like to follow news about GM (as I do Ford etc.) so I check out a lot of the GM boards. When someone says something I feel I need to respond to I do.
As an example, saturnfreaks post above is a good post and I would say I would agree with him on why an L series as a purchase decision makes much more sense than an Ion.
One of these days I will go out and drive an Ion, just to see if I am 'missing something'. But you can bet that on that same day I will also take a Corolla, Focus, Protege, Sentra out for a spin too.
Whether you are here because you like the ION or here because you don't like it, the rules are the same.
Discuss the vehicle in a civil and respectful manner. Leave the sniping off line.
afk_x : Some good points there. I really think the exterior of the ION is pretty decent. I can see why some people don't like a center IP inside, but I personally think it works in the ION.
Re: Ion looks. There's only a few things they would need to strip the car of its wierdness and they'd be relatively simple. One could say they should have done them from the start but oh well.....
1) put decent looking alum 5 spoke wheels on the car instead of the wierd looking wheels that available now. Offer 16" and 17" wheel options so the wheels look more in proportion to the body. The Ion suffers from the same thing the 91 Caprice suffered from. The upper body was out of proportion in relation to the wheels and wheel openings. note that when Chevy converted the Caprice to the Impala SS, they put nicer, bigger and wider wheels / tires on it, dropped the car a bit. They also revised the wheel openings and rear pillars. the Ion would benefit from the same conceptual changes.
2) eliminate that odd character line in the door panels. The swooshes.
3) clean up the lower fascia....give it a larger air intake below the bumper so it takes some of the emphasis away from the headlights. Get rid of the busy ness in the front, clean it up a bit.
4) new trunk / back end / tailight design. Maybe not as sorely needed if they cleanup the c pillar and front.
5) revise the rear door opeing and cpillar so its not as abrupt and chunky looking.
6) gut and redo the interior design. Everything, seats, dash, put the gauges back where they oughta be. Put a nice decent 3 spoke steering wheel on the car.
If they do these things, then could most likely move about 50,000 more of them a year. The platform and engine are fine.
The coupe is not to bad the way it is. It doesn't need the same work the sedan does.
The seats are VERY unsupportive, even on the ION's top trim level - NOT bucket seats. Compare that to other cars's interiors in this class and you can't get much worse seats.
The engine is supposed to be good and the 5spd MT should be OK too.
Why can't GM make solid interiors to Mazda/Nissan standards?
Dinu
As for the ION, interior materials are average for this price segment, Protege is slightly better at best, Corolla is about the best but at a price$$.
This is true, my main reason for going for this L is all the luxury options that came with the car for basically nothing, and the ride/ handling. I received a $ 3000.00 Saturn rebate, a $ 1000.00 GM loyalty rebate, and another $ 1000.00 market adjustment, taking $ 5000.00 dollars off the price bringing My L200 Prem. SE cost to a mere $ 16,245.00 before taxes.
With all the options, I couldn't say no.
Myself I go to 60 months and no more.
The deals on the Saturns now ARE actually pretty good, but it has been only until just a couple months ago that rebates were ever available on Saturns. So with the cheap financing and rebates, Saturn is competitive on their pricing. It will be interesting to see if going forward Saturn continues to use incentives. They used to be dead set against them.
Now they are even letting you use GM on them (for March).
If the price drops low enough, you can stomach the exterior looks of the car. As an example, an Ion 1 for dirt cheap I can live with, as long as I had some money left for nice wheels and a stereo. And a neck brace that would keep my neck form being permanently canted to the right.
I would imagine the 4-5 month supply of cars is forcing Saturn to severely sell off inventory. I gotta admit, a ten grand price tag with my GM card might actually make me think about the car in a better light. The exterior flaws I can live with at that price, but I just can't get past the interior woes. At that price you gotta at least take the car for a test drive.
But at least with rebates the price finally comes into line with its competitors, something that is rare for Saturn because of the way they held so dearly to their MSRP's.
usa : 84 months is just stupid. If you can't pay a car off in 5 years, you should look for something less expensive.
saturnfreak : The deals on the L are pretty good right now. They have a luxury sport package up here with free sun roof, chrome wheels, power package and a 5-speed for C$22K. Pretty sweet deal actually.
Dinu
You could buy used.....but depending on what you buy you could end up in a short period of time having to get things fixed. A 1500 repair on a transmission or something could set you back. A new car would have a long period of warranty that would help prevent large repair expenses.
You could lease, but then if you ever need to get rid of the car, it may cost you to get out of the lease.
You could do like a GM smart buy which is a loan with a balloon payment, but the usually the loan balance then is fairly high after making payments for 4 years.
With a 7 year loan, if the interest rate is good and the loan is a low amount, you can be 5 years into payments, still be on top of your loan (owe less than what the car is worth wholesale) and still have the ability to sell the car whenever you want and not take a hit.
So for some it may make sense. You might only save 50-75 a month or so bucks over a 5 year loan, but some folks may need that 50 bucks and dont want to spend that on repairs.
Lately, I try to find a used car with 10,000 miles or under on it to still have a lot of warranty yet and not pay for huge first year depreciation. I still get plenty of warranty. The Mits I just bought has STANDARD mfr. powertrain warranty for 5yrs or 60k miles. And I saved almost 6 or 7 grand vs. what it would have costed new. And I have 50,000 miles of warranty to use.
Mazdas have 4/50 bumper to bumper coverage. hyundais and suzukis are in the 7/100 warranty class.
That used car you buy 40-50 thou miles on it 'to save money' is coming due for lots of 3 year service items and usually, especially if its a domestic make, will start to nickel and dime you once you cross 50k miles. A new car is mostly cost free for the first 50k miles, in most cases.
Some use the 7 year loan to be able to buy cars like a Lexus, etc. That's the only way they can get into them. I'm not really in favor of that. But on a cheaper car like an Ion, it might not be a bad thing to do as alternative to used or leasing if you stay on top of the loan and get good terms. Then after 3 or 4 years when you want a new car again you havent dumped all your money into it only to see it depreciate all to hell. If you owe what you can get on trade or sell it for you'll come out ok. If a dealer finds out you paid off your car then they will offer you less for it anyways. If you still owed 3 grand on a 5 year old Saturn they may nudge the trade number up to 3 or a little bit over instead of offering you a grand, take it or leave it becaus eyour car is paid off. They just wanna make a deal.