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They don't LOOK bad, but are very flat - they provide limited support - kinda like a park bench: would you want to take corners sitting on one?
Dinu
are they actually offering onstar on it?
I guess if GM can offer On-Star in a Cavalier, they can offer it in the ION.
what's next...NAV?
I could see some people getting On-star added to the ION as their second car if say they had another car/truck with it. I think there is only a small fee to add Onstar to a second car.
I must admit my Saturns were excellent vehicles with good quality for a domestic (no major problems) and dealer service as good as its reputation. In fact I have been driving GM cars for twenty years and generally had very positive experiences.
I was hoping to trade my SL for a nicely equipped Ion but I found the new design absolutely bizarre. Even without the odd appearance, the difference in fit and finish and refinement is not small. The price in Canada for a Saturn and the Japanese competition were all in the same ball park. Although Saturn offers better financing you cannot haggle so any difference in price disappears.
I was shocked at how much better the Civic/Corolla/Protege were than the Saturn in the refinement area. Switch gear, interior appearance etc. Saturn has always had excellent paint IMHO and while the old S series was not perfect it was a pleasant conservative design with a normal looking interior. I bought the basic trim level in both my Saturns which were cheaper than the equivalent car from a Japanese make. When I wanted to upgrade to a nicely equiped car like my current one, the Saturn's shortcomings were more obvious. Even the cheaper Hyundai Elantra (which I have also owned) had better fit/finish.
I would definitely buy an Ion if they smoothed out the rough edges on the outside and fixed some of oddities on the interior, but GM takes years to make changes to their vehicles. GM had a good thing going with the Saturn experience if only the car was a little more refined.
I would like to hear from others who have a Japanese compact car in the garage with a Saturn. What do you think?
I have also driven for at least 2 years:
89 Tercel/93 Civic/01 Protege
and I can say this:
ALL had better interior fit and finish, even my 89 Tercel had more supportive seats.
The Civic rusted, the Tercel held-up well and the Pro is too new to judge. The SL1 did not have 1 rust spot.
The Civic was a fun drive. The Protege is a great handling car that puts many others costing thousands more to shame on a twisty road (but not in 0-60). The Tercel was nothing to write home about, heck, not even send a postcard. And the SL1? Its suspension and steering feel did not say "You are the driver", but did their job in a lackluster way.
The SL1 was the only MT of this bunch and while I learned to drive stick on this car, it won't be confused w/a Honda MT ant time soon. The others were/is AT, so I can't compare.
Braking is best in the PRO, followed by the Civic, Corolla, SL1 on that order.
Loooks-wise: PRO, Civic, SL1, Tercel.
My cousin owns a 00 Z24 and after 55Kms (my PRO has 54K since July 2001), it rattles from the seats, armrest, rear shelf, stalls randomly, the power windows are s-l-o-w to go up... In my eyes, this is the typical GM interior quality.
As it was pointed out before, b/c you cannot haggle at Saturn, their cars are not worth looking at new - When I can get a great deal on a PRO w/A/C, CD, ABS, 16" alloys, spoiler, moonroof, fogs, sporty black interior and the best habdling in its class, why would I look at Saturn's fixed price? Their interiors (like the rest of GM) are much much inferior to the Japanese, their cars rattle, have poor resale, handle "so-so" at best... That 0% is not worth a car that I won't be smiling every time I drive it, like the PRO - I got 2.9% on that one.
I like Saturn's idea and cars - if only the interiors were up to par, and they had a normal 3 or 4-spoke steering wheel.
Dinu
I really loved the driving dynamics of the Protege as well as what I felt was better build than the Civic I bought. But I have a family and felt that the Civic was just a little roomier for us (we are short but a little pudgy). I was also not enamored with the local Mazda dealer. My brother drives an ancient Mazda which has served him well. Actually I am surprised that Mazdas in general do not sell better than they do. I do see a lot of the current Proteges on the road so maybe they are finally catching on.
I actually also own an '02 Corolla - the last of the old body style. My only complaint is that it is a bit tight and kind of dull to drive (because it's an auto) but otherwise its a great car - absolutely incredible fit and finish.
The Ion is huge inside which is why it was at the top of my shopping list and the car does drive quite well. Not as smooth overall as the Japanese stuff but decent.
I am not sure I agree about the size of the Civic though, I think it is bigger than the '03 Corolla and the Protege. Of course everyone fits into these vehicles differently as we are all different shapes and sizes so maybe its just me. The comment about the Civic being a little underpowered is true if you go with the auto but it is adequate with a manual. In Canada we get a poor man's Acura called the 1.7EL which is the top end Civic in the US with the 127 hp engine - a better choice for auto tranny.
I have been reading that the Ion is not selling as well as they expected (including the link found here on this site). I can not beleive it is not doing well for such a new vehicle. The Impala is one of the ugliest cars on the road (to my eyes) but they cannot built them fast enough (probably because it is huge for the price and generally a very good car). I would have thought that there are enough people waiting for a new small Saturn that it would be a hit. I know the reviews have not been all positive on the Ion but they never loved the S series either and it sold quite well for many years.
As for the Civic, it's ok, but certainly not anything special and not as good looking as the old one IMO. There are just so many of them on the road also. Quality / reputation is the reason it sells.
LOL.
Auto show tomorrow! Auto show is almost better than sex!
I'm gonna see if I can put my fist through a Saturn door panel....lol....test out the plastic doors.
Coming around on the Ion, as long as the rebates are there. STILL HATE the steering wheel and can live without the dash, especially after seeing the new interior of the upcoming MAzda3......A4 cloned interior in an economy car.....WOW.
The panels are one of the best features of the Saturn, even people who hate Saturn admit it's a great idea. I'm surprised no other companies make cars with them.
I believe this to be more because the general age of those that buy the Impala are over 55 years of age, many over 65, and the name Impala brings up memories from a car of the past.
"I believe this to be more because the general age of those that buy the Impala are over 55 years of age, many over 65, and the name Impala brings up memories from a car of the past."
FALSE. You are talking about Buick Regal, Century and Park Avenue customer demographics. The great majority of Impala owners fall within the same exact age group that buys Accords and Camries. Further, the Impala LS model, has the majority of buyers between 18 to 35 years of age. Don't believe me? Go and hang around the Impala forum and some of the Impala enthusiast websites.
I own a 2001 Impala LS and I am 31 years old (Wife is 27) and we love this car. It does sure beat the ION in power (we have the 3800 Series II V6 200HP engine) with an engine that moves right off the bat with the slightest tap of the gas pedal (And returns 30+ MPG in the highway), a butter smooth automatic slushbox, excellent police grade brakes and very nimble handling for a car its size and weight, thanks to the sport tuned suspension and the quicker ratio steering setup. Its a heck of a car for the money. We paid $21K for our fully loaded and after 20K miles hasn't seen the dealer for other than regular oil changes and tire rotations. Car is solid as they day when we got it 2 years ago. Not a single squeak or rattle, solid as a bank vault.
vcjumper : Why must Mazda make cars with number names? I really hate that.
Reg : The Acura 1.7 is very funny. It even looks like a Civic aside from the Acura badge and the wheel covers. Check out www.acura.ca
Not a lot of interest in the Saturn area at all (ok, hardly any), except for the Vue. Nobody really checking out the Ion.
I was sitting in the back and a young couple got in the front. Eventually the conversation came down to the dash and the gal said she didn't like it. No profanities though.
Actually a guy struck up a conversation with me unsolicited and just ripped on the Ion. He called it 'junk' and 'cheap looking' compared to the competitors. I mentioned to him that for some it may be a viable option considering rebates currently available, and he acknowledged that he did not know about the rebates. Also he said that the rebates maybe bring the price in line better but doesn't improve the car.
Upon further inspection I found the trunk to be good sized. they can be proud about giving a good sized boot.
The Ion 1 was dreary inside with the gray. Plus the seat was not height adjustable and the seat itself was soft, low and flat. The Ion 2 is improved, at least in being able to raise the seat.
The manual shifter falls nicely to hand in the Ion 1 i sat in.
The Ion 3 for over 19 grand had really cheap interior door panels.
I dunno, it'll be an uphill battle.
I somehow don't believe that so called Impala "enthusiasts" that "hang out" in forums and other web sites would accurately portray the Impalas general customer base. After all, most car owners do not come here to chat.. They just buy, and drive.
I would like to get a look at GM's demographics, for I am sure they have an accurate average age of those that buy the Impala, and I still say the majority of non Impala "enthusiasts" as you say are over 55 years of age. You are entitled to your opinion, as well as I.
I heard this radio commercial for Saturn right before turning the car off at work this morning. It said something about, 'the hot, stylish new ION, with class leading HP and a sexy look', or something like that. It made me kinda laugh to myself, reading this board and all the controversy on the styling.
I think the Ion should be successful for the same reason as the Impala. It may be ungainly from some angles and its interior not to everyone's liking but it is easily the largest in its class and the one of most powerful for the money. Plus great paint, great customer service and those plastic panels. Plus in my personal experience the resale is very good - or at least it was for me. Not sure now with the rebates and financing.
I am probably Saturn's their target customer since I like the added refinement and fit and finish that both my Corolla and Civic have in spades.
The Acura 1.7EL is not a joke. In Canada we are less affluent that in the US and we prefer smaller cars (gas is really expensive here as a percentage of disposable income). Most of our top selling cars are compacts and four cylinder Japanese mid size cars. Something like the baby Acura makes sense because it is very very well equiped. It would hurt the brand in the US but has not in Canada. Its not for me but it has been hugely popular.
Regfootball - Is the warmer weather softening you up?
Drivinisfun - My dad had an Impala on lease. He really liked it (and had no trouble at all), but wanted something more sporty. He ended up buying a Subaru Legacy sedan which he seems to be enjoying.
This should read I am NOT Saturn's target customer for this car...
Me no type so good....
vocus : The exterior looks of the ION are just not anything very different. Passed a couple on the highway yesterday and hardly even noticed them until I realized what they were.
What does this have to do with the ION?
The sterring wheel, the center gauges, all the bad things. And GM won't fix em anytime soon.
I was so disappointed. The Ion 1 would be a good car for many but I'm afraid the seats and somber cheapness of the interior make the car so unappealing on first visit that it makes the Ion 2 and ion 3 seem like they are even a worse offender on the interior.
Nothing wrong with a luxurious small car. On the weekend I was quite taken with a Corolla LE that was loaded up with tan leather, sunroof, etc. At 23K Cdn it didn't seem like a bad deal if you wanted those sorts of things.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
One earlier post on this board found the Civic tight. I myself am short but find them very comfortable. Most of my friends are very tall 6-2 to 6-6 and all of them drive Civic/Baby Acura sedans and fit comfortably in them. So if you are one of those people who could potentially have soar backs etc from a car seat, spend lots of time test driving. Plus with Saturn if you hate the car there is still that money back guarantee thing going for it.
exactly! - we agree on something...how amazing is that?
The toyota sized Lexus the poster refers to fails to note that the IS300 is an inline six, with high performance rear wheel drive. A significantly more capable car than the economical Corolla.
Posters 1434 and 1435, you make the case for people being able to accept and adjust to the Saturns wierd dash and lesser materials in time, but during the point of purchase when people cross shop other cars, the deficiencies of one car vs. another stand out like the glaring sun. Whether you can ultimately accept the flaws over time is one thing. However, if something appears of a lesser quality or is 'wierd' no one has the desire or time to choose the lesser solution and then 'get used to it' or 'accept it' where thousands of dollars are concerned. Folks will gravitate to what is more conventional and looks more expensive. Most folks will gravitate towards getting the better stuff for their money and will find it insulting that anyone would suggest they still buy something that is lesser and 'accept it' unless they like something else about the car.
The comparative flaws become even more apparent when at places like auto shows, where all the cars are right next to each other. Set the Ion 1 with its low, flat, soft seats next to a Suzuki Aerio with its nice comfy chairs with plush fabric, or next to the Protege with its wide comfy thrones and attractive and functional dash........opinions are formed by buyers really fast and after that there's no way to lure them back.
And yes, another whothinks the sterring wheel and wheels are bizarre.
I currently drive a 1998 Honda Civic DX w/AC AT. I owned a 1992 Saturn SL w/o AC MT from 8/'91 to 8/'02. The Honda was purchased in 03/'98 new. Bought the Honda when my wife was pregnant and tired of pushing a clutch pedal. Several years later, we bought a Isuzu Oasis (re-badged Odyssey), so we choose to sell the Saturn mainly because of the MT. I really dislike the Honda Civic that is now my full time vehicle.
In the entire time I owned my Saturn, I put a new windshield wiper motor and a new water pump in. $300 worth of repairs for the 11 years of ownership/107k miles. Not too shabby. The 'city' mileage was down at the end of this time, but the highway mileage was always a steady 40mpg. I never waxed the car the entire time I owned; still looked very good at selling time.
Contrast the Honda... Has a trunk lid that falls down when you look at it. We got a special spoiler lid torsion element installed after 5 months of ownership; it falls down just as bad as the original mechanism. It has fragile paint. It has no trunk lamp. The AT hunts for gear shifts/shifts abruptly. The last straw of disgust of this vehicle is the abysmal gas mileage. Avg. 22-23 ciy/32mpg highway max. This is pathetic. It's the main reason I'm back in the car market. When we bought the car, I really expected it to perform better than the sticker mileage, not worse...
I've been following the Ion discussions. I'm going on 40 yrs old and a frugal/practical person. I will drive a car for 10 years. I don't really care what much it looks like, so long as it can capably and safely carry me and family around. Simplicity is best. I test drove an Ion 1/MT tonight. I'll say this, over the same roads I drive daily in my Honda, the Ion rode remarkably better.
Things that impress me about the ION: distinctive style, wide range of options/prices allow for customization, expectedly decent reliability, good customer service.
However, thats not enough. It seems the press and public agree.
~alpha
I am certain the ECOTEC 2.2 will go for much much longer than 75K miles....ask any Saturn tech what kind of problems they see with this engine. Answer? None. Bulletproof.
Interesting info on ECOTEC
http://www.phobia.net/~snapb1/SSecotec.html
afk_x : I agree, the Ecotec is a very good motor though the fuel efficiency could be a little better, especially in the city. Our Alero gets about 35-36 on the highway.
Mileage-wise the Honda is better in the city than my old SLs but slightly lower on the highway. The old SL was capability of 48 mpg (US gallon) or 55 mpg (imperial gallon). The Honda manages only 41 and 47 respectively. These numbers are my experience and are slightly higher than the ratings. I am a gentle driver and can usually coax a few more mpgs than the rating. Hey gas is expensive here in the Great White North C$ 82 cents a litre or over $3.25 per US gallon and C$ 3.73 per imperial gallon! I have done a long trip in an Ecotec-powered Cavalier coupe and gas milegae is much worse than either the SL or the Civic. Mind you the ancient Cav platform probably did not do justice to this engine. Hopefully the same engine in the Ion is better. I have not yet done a long trip on an Ion - they don't rent them here yet.
The Honda is 15% more powerful than my old SL.The new Ion is 40% more powerful than the old SL. The Ion is quicker than the Civic but not as smooth and the manual gearbox is only OK. Also the Ecotec while better than previous GM 4 bangers (not saying much) is still a bit rough and crude compared with the Japanese designs. While fuel economy on the Ion is less than the Civic, it is comparable to other engines with similar horsepower like the ones in the Aerio and the Elantra. Only the Civic EX/Acura EL/ and Corolla gives decent power and high fuel economy (horse power numbers are lower than Ion but they feel just as quick thanks to good overall systems engineering of transmission and suspension components).
I really really wanted the Saturn to be better than it was. At the Toronto autoshow the Saturn area was empty on the day I went (the first Saturday). Only one couple sort of walked pass to even look at the Ion although a few people did stop to look at the Vue. The Hyundai/Kia exhibit on the other had was very busy and people were impressed by the lelvel of fit and finish especially for the price. Sad to say I am more impressed with Hyundai than with what GM - the world largest car company - was able to do with the Saturn, a car they had more than a decade to update.
Dunworth - Would never buy a Hyundia after my sister's experience. It has not been a reliable car. I know they are getting better, but it will be a while before I believe it.