Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Also, what are the prospects of a factory offered supercharger kit? I know the Vibe you can get with a supercharger as a warranted add on. generally I am opposed to such a bandaid device to get hp but with only 140hp on tap, and seeing the Neon kick butt with its 215+ hp I am wondering how cheap you can get an Ion 1 for and then slap a blower on it later that is warranted and dealer installed. I had read that Ion coupe may be available with a supercharger.
It if helps sell I am all for it, but I personally can't stand even having a car loan for more then 3 years. The loan on my L is for 36 months however I have the intent to pay it off within 2.5 years.
I agree with you on the Sentra's exterior, especially that rear.
As for cust. svc. my Mazda dealer has been very helpful in regards to getting the car serviced in 19 mths and 54000 kms.
I know about Saturn's "famous" service: had to drive a 94 SL1 for about 1 yr. I learned to drive a stick shift on that car, so I do like Saturns better than Chevys of Pontiacs.
Dinu
Reg - I'm not sure what is wrong with the Ion tires. I think they look great.
The 16" aluminum wheels available on the Ion are heinous. A sick sort of go-bots meets Lego meets Isuzu Impulse look.
That's fine with me as I would go to tire rack and buy some nice simple elegant machined look 5 to 7 spoke wheels. 17" if its out there. 16" if needed. It would clean up the looks greatly.
If a car is selling with a high rebate (like the L series, for instance), you can almost guarantee it's not gonna be worth hardly anything, or else you will be upside down on the loan, if you don't keep the car until it dies.
Also, if one needs to finance a car for anything longer than 60 months, then they don't need the car. If they can't afford a basic car's payment for 60 months, then they can't afford a vehicle.
Personal finance is not as simple as 'cash in, cash out' these days. Just because someone wants to stretch out a loan to free up their money for something else is not a crime to me.
Regardless of how you 'pay' for your vehicle, to me the thing is never being in a position where you owe more than what you could get for it if you needed to firesale it, and having the flexibility to get rid of it at any time if you needed to and not take a big financial hit.
How is leasing different or better than a 7 year loan? If you use the theory of 50% lost value every three years, in six years you still have about 25% value and in seven around what, 18%. On a seven year loan, the car is now paid.
So you must be against leasing then, too.
If the seven year loan is a successful fianancial tool for some, I'm ok with that. It might allow them to use their money elsewhere in those 7 years.
What's dumb is throwing a lot of cash down to buy a depreciating item, like a car. What if you crash the car two weeks after you buy it. The insurance co is only gonna salvage it out at a fraction of the money you spent in cash.
Open window, throw out the cash and say bye bye.
The longer the loan term, the higher the interest rate usually. Typically, the 72-month loan rate is .5% above the 60-month loan rate. So that's losing money right there. If one can 'afford' to put themselves into debt for 7 years with a car loan, perhaps they need a better sense of financing.
Leases are a waste of money, yes. If you're not in a business where you can write off the use of the car, it is a waste. Some people prefer to do this though, because it's cheaper than purchasing said car then trading in 2-3 years and having to deal with depreciation. It is, in all practical terms, a waste of money though.
And as far as owing about the same on a car as you paid for it, right as soon as you get it, on what planet does this happen??? If you buy a car at an auction or privately, maybe. But, if you purchase a car from a dealer used, you are still gonna get hosed if you trade that car within 2 years of acquiring it. And if you took advantage of alot of rebates when buying the car (say, $3-4000 worth, like the Cavaliers have now), then it's gonna be even longer until you're even. Rebates = rock bottom trade-in value. Anyone knows that.
In Dec 2001 I bought a 2k1 Diamante for my wife. In December 2k2, I traded the 2k1 for a 2k2 Diamante and was still on top of the loan.
The tbird I had I bought with 4k miles on it and turned it at 75k and 54 months and made a nice profit.
The Prizm I bought new I turned in 39 months with 20k miles on it and made a nice tidy profit on it.
You gotta be smart about buying....its not the LENGTH of the loan that is the problem. If you are 'under' on your loan it often boils down to
1) you got screwed on the purchase price vs. the value of the car....you overpaid for your hunk of junk. You maybe should have negotiated better. Or shopped better, or both. Your own fault if you get screwed.
2) you should have thought about putting some small amount of cash down to bring the loan balance below trade in value. Do that at the start and you won't get under.
3) you never checked the amortization table and remaining balance vs. projected trade value at intervals during your loan. Amazing, but if you see what the payoff is in 3 years vs. projected value, maybe that should send up a red flag.
4) you will help yourself greatly if you find a used car that has about 5-10 thou miles on it. Don't pay for that 1st year hit.
By the way vocus, since when is debt a problem? All credit is is a tool to allow you more flexibility with how you spend your money. Credit and debt are not bad....you just need to be responsible about how you use the tool. Instead of spending 25 grand cash on a new GM car, it might make more sense to pay interest on a loan and use the 25 grand for other things that can enhance your financial situation. All interest is is the price of using others money. If having to pay car loan interest means the difference between an Impala and a Bonneville who cares?
No one would own a house if they couldn't borrow money to buy it. Even the folks in the trailer park need loans for a house.
A car still has value after 7 years so what is the problem borrowing against it if the person wants to do it and will come out ok?
Credit is a tool. Manage it wisely and it is a good tool. Be an idiot and it will bite you. So what.
Dinu
PS: And you need to email Pat
There is no possible way you're gonna make me see anything positive in financing a car for 7 years. As I said before, you need to rethink your needs and budget if you need to stretch out a car payment for SIX years, let alone 7.
Nah, don't fool yourself. I think is got more to do with the 0% APR 5 year financing being offered on the ION or the fact that current GM card holders can redeem their accrued Mastercard points on any new Saturn in stock (Purchase or Lease) until March 31st.
Remember that at GM, the "Deal" is what moves the metal or in this case the "Polymer" panels...
Most people like the looks of the ION.
0.0% doesn't sell cars. It just helps close the deal. We had that on the S series for a long long time and the only people coming in were current Saturn owners or people they referred.
The ION is bringing in fresh people.
I agree, 0% does not sell cars. If you don't like the car, you won't buy it no matter how good the deal is. Besides, most small cars have 2-0% financiang right now so Saturn is just being competitive.
Mileage does not play as much of a role in wholesale value as you think. My prizm was maybe only worth 500 bucks more because of the lower miles than usual.
I would touch a Saturn with a ten foot pole normally. However, a 2000 dollar rebate or 0% and chance to use the GM Card opens it up to consideration.
Incentives get you to look at cars you otherwise would not even consider. Hence the word INCENTIVES. You can justify buying what maybe wasn't your first choice if you can say you saved a gob of money going with second best. Then of course, you will always be regretting what you could've had. The incentives is your justification for not getting what you really wanted.
Right now I have 1200 on my GM card. I priced out an Ion 1 the way I wanted it and the MSRP was like 13,400. Now, no way in hell do I spend 13,400 on an Ion when more desirable options are out there. But for the first time in the history of the world, now there is a rebate available. On top of that, NOW I can use my GM card 1200 dollars. That brings that price down to close to 10 grand. As a bridesmaid choice, runner up, whatever you wanna call it, I can almost stomach driving an aestetically handicapped car with a heinous steering wheel and total waste of a dash for 10 grand. In the pecking order, an Ion is higher than a Kia Spectra to me and that's about the only other car you can buy close to 10 grand. A preferred choice, the Focus....I would need to spend about 11,300 or so to get one with air and sim. level of equipment, but that is a zx3.
Once the GM card offer is gone from Saturn, there's no need for me to look at them anymore. If they ever rescind the rebate, then Saturn doesn't even come up in the conversation.
Now if you ABSOLUTELY LOVE the car.....then you hit the daily double.....car you want, and you get to take advantage of good deals.
But you are a fool if you think incentivesdoesn't have a lot to do with it. Incentives will get someone in the door who otherwise doesn't give you a first look.
Notice how GM needs the incentives to move all its cars these days.......
1. A lot of car for the $
2. Looks like just about every other car on the road, don't understand the time and attention given to the different styling.
3. It took me approximately one day to get used to the center IP, since I'm constantly looking at my right side view mirror, glancing right feels natural. It took a few days of night driving to stop checking to see if my headlights were on because I wasn't seeing dash lights directly in front of me.
4. Car has nice interior car space. I was able to get a very large framed piece of art in the Ion's back seat that would not fit in my husbands Camry.
5. Drivers side view mirror does not have a wide enough viewing range. I do a lot of highway driving and have been “surprised” by the sudden appearance of cars on my left side. I’ve not had that experience on my previous cars.
6. Car seems to drift at times, almost like the tires are catching a grove in the road and going the way they want instead of the way I want.
7. I feel like I have to constantly monitor the wheel, it frequently pulls right when braking and left when accelerating.
8. The drivers seat causes me to have lower back pain not found in my previous cars.
9. I have to press with all my strength in the middle of the horn to get it to honk. I suspect this is a defect and will have it looked at by the dealer.
10. I get 30 MPG
I would love to know if other ION owners have experienced the steering sensations and back discomfort I’ve had. Also what about that side view mirror?
I was just looking through the newspaper here in Atlanta and I noticed how ALL the car dealerships are offering "incentives" to move their cars. It's not just focused on the GM dealers. Each and every add that I looked at had some sort of "cash back" or "0% interest". GM is not doing anything different from the other dealers. I bought my ION3 because I liked it. Not because of the "incentives" that they had.
I have not had a single problem with my car and I am enjoying the hell out of it. I've had several people stop me with great compliments about the car and how it doesn't look like you're average Saturn and that's what attracts them to it. Another thing to think about the Saturns is...they have NEVER had any recalls on their cars, but you can't say the same thing about other cars, ex: Ford Focus (can't even count on one hand how many recalls that car has had and I know that from first hand experience), Isuzu, Mitsubishi, and the list goes on.
When I bought my Saturn, I though about safety first. I've seen several accidents that involved people that were in Saturns and the car might have had damage to it, but they were not hurt. Trust me, I am by far not a "Saturn freak". I was leaning towards a different car before I bought this one, but I saw my Ion, drove it and felt very safe in it. The handling was great, the cranberry color is classy and I like the smaller sporty steering wheel. The car itself is what sold me.
I guess alot of people would choose a car with an incentive as opposed to one without to save money. I guess I never thought of myself as one of those people though. I have been through that before, and just ended up trading the car in about a year to get what I wanted in the first place...
I think the seats are fine, not sure what the fuss is about. My wife drives the thing 40 miles to work every day and doesn't mind them.
;-)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Vocus-Mits is indeed guilty of incentives too. In fact, new Diamantes can be had for under 20 grand these days. Mazda Millenias are also getting close to 20g with incentives.
But I do like the design of the Diamante so I do indeed hit the daily double. I like the car and can find great deals. I am on my second one and the car is reliable, looks good, and runs great. Only spent 15 grand on a year old one. Its way better than buying a run of the mill domestic, especially at that price. I just don't wanna throw 25 grand at a car these days.
All carmakers do have incentives but GM really upped the ante following 9/11 and really got aggressive with it. From what I can see, GM still has the largest incentives out there. Many vehicles with 3000 or more off.
Back to Ion. They had Saturns at the shopping mall last night. The awkward looks I am getting somewhat adjusted to. I don't disagree that it is different. The exterior issues I think I can come around to accepting in time, but I still can't rationalize the dash design and especially the steering wheel. Those two things alone just make me say, "change it, please!" Too bad those two seemingly minor design features negate whatever is good.
The car in the mall was green by the way which was a nice color. Gotta ditch the blue roof rails though. Yuck. body color please.
Didn't have time to look at the Mitsus at the Auto Show last month. The brand is new here so I should have but I was too tired to walk over. No local dealer yet.
"I would love to know if other ION owners have experienced the steering sensations and back discomfort I’ve had. Also what about that side view mirror? "
The "steering sensations" is not normal, please have it looked at. I have no issue with the seat at all.
ion_owner wrote:
"I have to press with all my strength in the middle of the horn to get it to honk. I suspect this is a defect and will have it looked at by the dealer."
The sweet spot is not in the middle, it is a little to the left/right from the Saturn logo and difficult to trigger. This issue seems to be a Saturn thing.
Basically if you can get 5.9% or better you are going to come out ahead with the 2,000 dollar rebate. You'll owe less and the payment will be about the same.
I would see if your dealership can do better than 5.9%. Just make sure you're sitting down when they tell you the trade value on your SL2. Trade values have never been lower for all vehicles. Heck even the civic and corolla are taking a beating....
Not sure why they didn't design something like the nice simple 3 spoker like in Mazdas or Toyotas. The 3 spoker in the Matrix is sweet.
Dindak....why isn't Mitsubishi in Canada? They've been in the US since, like biblical times. The new Galant coming out soon will be the litmus test for Mitsubishi going forward....it is being upsized to take on Altima, Accord, and Camry...the big units in the market.
I will agree with you on the steering wheel in the ION, could be better.
The Civic, Protege, Cavalier/Sunfire and Corolla are all over the roads. Not so with Mitsus.
I don't think they have what it takes to compete with the Protege/Corolla, except they offer $0-0%, but even that is not helping.
Now if the ION had bucket-type seats (like in the Pro/Rolla/Civic), a normal steering wheel (I still don't get why GM insists on using anythink but a 3-spoke or 4spoke wheel), and move the gauges where they belong, I would seriously consider one - I like the looks but won't buy a car seats that are not supportive.
Dinu
Steering wheel is just not as bad as people are making it out to be. It's unconventional, but it works well.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The aluminum wheels come 14" on the Ion 1 and 15" on the Ion 2. My Ion 3 came standard with 16" alloy wheels and is the main reason I went with the 3 model.
To the owner with the back pain, I have not experienced any back pain due to the seats and I have a history of lower back problems. The horn however is a different story, I have found it frustrating trying to find the right spot and push it hard enough, but that is really my only complaint about the car.
I did notice the strange steering sensation, but I didn't think it was a big deal. I think it a combination of things. The smaller steering wheel, the electric steering and the low profile tires on the ION 3 make the steering more responsive. Just my opinion.
"Steering wheel is just not as bad as people are making it out to be. It's unconventional, but it works well."
It may work, but ugly is as ugly does. It will be interesting to hear the comments about it when I check it out at the auto show this weekend. I will have to keep a scorecard to see how many times the phrase 'golf cart' comes up.
Dinu....maybe if you pull the stock seats and put some recaros in it? Actually, the seats don't look too bad.
ON.ION
couldn't resist.