Saturn ION

regfootball

100,000 for tranny and coolant replacement is a bad idea IMHO.

tranny fluid and coolant should be done at every 30,000 IMHO

savannahlady

Congrats to you both on your Ion's. I agree with you both on the black, actually the one I test drove was in black and looked very classy the only thing I didn't like was the tan interior. I live in Ga also and the pollen right now is horrible. I have the Ion 3 in Bright Blue and now it has a neon green glow to it with all the pollen.

dindak

why?

gstout1

anyone have a problem with hose coming loose from trans and losing fluid?

gstout1

I lost my trans fluid at 4k miles. they tell me the clamp on a hose let loose. makes for an ugly stain in the driveway.

uga91

The manual says you can change the transmission fluid every 50k mi if you meet one of a few criteria such as you do a lot of towing, or live in hilly areas or the temp is consistently over 90 degrees. The salesman at delivery said to do it at 100k mi, though. I may do it at 50k mi as it certainly won't hurt. On the coolant, though, they say 100k mi or 5 years for all applications. My 2001 Chrysler van also says to wait until 100k mi on the coolant--so it must be in the way they are made now or something.

uga91

That is one thing I like about my silver-blue. During the test drive, I could tell the car was covered in pollen but it did not look too bad. At least not compared to many other cars on the lot!

uga91

I like the bright blue a lot. Saturn of Gwinnett had one on the showroom floor that I liked--but the wife didn't. We were looking for a lighter color anyway. But, I do like the bright blue--enjoy!

uga91

Sorry to hear about the loose clamp. I hope they took care of it for you! So far, so good on my 2, but it has only been 3 days! :-)

vocus

Most cars have coolant that's changed every 100K miles. Just remember to use the pink colored coolant if you have to add some, or you will have to have the system flushed and refilled at your expense.

lngtonge18

Does Saturn use the pink Dexcool? If it does, regfootball's warning is warranted. GM has encountered all sorts of problems from the use of Dexcool. If left in the cooling system too long, Dexcool eats away at seals, as seen by the intake manifold seal failure on certain GM engines (3.1, 3.4 and 3.8). If they suggest replacing it at 50k under more severe conditions, I would follow that rather than the 100k rule.

As for the tranny, I feel 100k is just too risky for auto tranny fluid. You are asking for trouble going that long. A manual tranny could handle it, but I still wouldn't suggest pushing it. Especially since Saturn doesn't have a warranty to cover you past 36k.

regfootball

bingo! - dexcool is BAAADDDD!

3100, 3400, and 3800 all been affected by this very common problem. My father in law had that happen to the tune of megabucks to fix the manifold on his 3800. Lots of info on these boards and internet of blown GM v6 manifolds, a very high percentage of owners with this problem. More than a few p'oed individuals. I think there is even one 'petition site' from a disgruntled owner about this.

changing and fully flushing coolant at 30k is a good idea anyways....keeps contaminants out of the cooling system (which is continually asked to do more all the time with the high stress engines). Prolongs life of your radiator and also helps engine run/cool better.

30k tranny flush for same reasons.....junk in tranny fluid is major cause of tranny repairs. Keep it clean and tranny will last longer. If you have owned a Ford automatic you will understand. Since my father in laws tranny on his Olds 88 blew at 37k miles I assume its a good idea for all auto trannies.

100k maintainance is a pipe dream. Loosen up the wallet and give your vehicle some TLC. It will pay off in the long run.

dindak

Have not heard anything bad about Dexcool. Maybe I'll do it a little earlier that recommended, but even the GM shop tells me not to worry. I can hold them liable if anything goes wrong since it says right in the manual when I am suppose to change it.

As for transmission fluid, if you have a good tranny is should be fine. I never had it done on my old 3.1L powered Cavalier until it hit 125K Kms. Transmission was always smooth. Ford transmissions are another story, I won't comment on that,

formersuver1

As long as one keeps an eye on the fluid levels and follows the 5-year rule (i.e., change the fluid at 5 years regardless of mileage)there have been very few problems with Dexcool--in our large fleet, virtually none, and we've got lots of GM product and tons of the 3.8 engine. We turn our fleet at 5 years or 75,000, with most of them being purchased by local taxi drivers or sold at wholesale to company employees....if they're going to employees, we do a coolant change before they're sold and these things keep chugging along. My brother-in-law works in service for a large local GM dealership and has confirmed for me that they've seen virtually no failures due to Dexcool (nor from the "well-known" blown headgasket problem!)

vocus

I know what you mean about Ford trannies. My friend has a '94 Mercury Cougar that had its transmission rebult 2 times before 25K miles. In addition, the car trembles when backing up now, and shifts like a Mack truck.

himiler

Remember, "At Ford, quality is job #1."

regfootball

"Ford transmissions are another story, I won't comment on that"

Let's just sum it up by saying Ford is incapable of building a decent and reliable automatic transmission.

"At Ford, quality is job #1"

You meant to say #105, don't forget the last two digits.

Since I have owned Fords I guess I am just conditioned to baby the crap outa that stuff now.

Still, in principle......waiting 5 years for tranny maintainance just sounds like trouble, regardless of make.

gstout1

I owened my ION2 for 34days and 4k mi.when the hose let loose. The trans started to slip while iwas driving the car and I drove a few miles to get it home. The dealership told me it was just a hose so they refilled the trans and said it seemed ok. Iasked if they could guarantee there was no wear to the internal parts and they said no. I requested they give me a new ION2. No good. They did give me a 60K 4yr. warranty to which I added $400 to extend it to 75k 6yrs. I asked that they stand behind the trans for 100k. No interest on there part. Now sending papers to their insurance co. to repair my driveway. Still like the car I just hope the trans didn't suffer any damage. Hope you have good luck with yours.

dunworth

Ouch, sorry to hear you are having such troubles on a new car. Hopefully its has been corrected and you can continue to enjoy your new Ion. So is this a common problem according to the dealer?

I had one of the first Saturn SL's in Canada (the dealer was not even fully converted over to Saturn yet from Passport)and they were extremely sensitive to addressing first-year glitches.

Unfortunately 1st year/new model teething problems are common on all vehicles, regardless of make. My ideal car is a baby Benz (C240)sedan but that car is having an incredible number of problems (its corporate cousin the Neon is probably having fewer troubles).

uga91

Glad to hear your transmission is fixed. Hopefully you will get years of good service out of it. I think the fact that you were given a free 60k mi warranty shows they feel the transmission will hold. Your upgrading to 75k mi should give you peace of mind for a long time. Just try not to hold this episode against your dealer. Remember that he is an independant dealer running a business. Your car is warranted by GM--not your dealer. He can not give away 100k mi warranties, it is not his place to do so. He also can not give away a new car every time a hose comes loose. If you wanted a new car or a 100k mi warranty, you should have left the dealer and turned your attention to GM. They made the car and now warrant the car. Your dealer has no ties to the Saturn division of GM other than the fact that he buys his inventory from them. How long would you dealer stay in business if he gave away personal 100k mi warranties not backed by GM or gave away new cars every time a customer was unhappy? Not very long--what would you do then? I think the fact that your dealer is pressure washing your driveway shows he is willing to go above and beyond the standard for customer service just to keep you happy. The loose hose was not your dealer's fault. I'm glad you are up and running again; but, please do not hold this problem against your dealer.

vuefor2

uga91 ::: Congrats on the new car, let us know how you like it.

gstout1 ::: Glad they sorted out your problem. Too bad about the mess though. Not much fun.

uga91

I'm sure I will change the transmission fluid at 50k miles. Even though they told me I can wait until 100k mi, they do say 50k mi is good if you meet one of a few conditions. With all the stop and go driving that comes with living in Atlanta--and the hot summers we have--I'm sure the car will appreciate being changed sooner.

Also, someone a while back mentioned how Saturns are "quirky" or something like that. I have noticed that the new Ion is very close to many other GM products. Illuminated entry, delayed theater lighting, and amber running lights are all things that my mom's 1998 Buick Regal has that my 1999 SL2 did not have. Not saying that this is a bad thing. Just saying that Saturn may not be as "quirky" as they once were.

uga91

Thank you--I will.

aveman

I think Saturn has a decent sytem of reporting probmlems and tracking them.If the clamp failed rather than just being put on wrong, than it is likely more clamps will fail, a bad batch.Did they mention if the clamp broke or wasn't installed right. I think you should report your problem to a rep.Keep an eye on that part.The thing about early prolem fixes is that if a part is defective , they really don't know until it happens repeatedly.And then once the do find out ,it would take a while to get new parts in the pipeline. Good luck. Saturn should be good at problem tracking, if there is an issue with a part they will should let you know. Good luck

echristi

I am now a Black ION 3 owner, with a manual transmission. I traded in my 2000 LS2 (called L300 now) lease to buy a new ION and my monthly payment still went down $22 a month!! Gotta love the incentives! I do have a few things I want to change on the car, like the speakers and headlights. They don't seem bright enough to me, mostly when in the high-beam setting. Has anyone else replaced their bulbs? Did you see any significant improvement?

By the way, I got a black ION 3, tan leather interior (couldn't stand what I think is the HIDEOUS fabric pattern), sunroof, rear spoiler, and ABS. After having the car for a few days, the alloy wheel design has grown on me. I really like this car! I wish I could have gotten the side curtain airbags, but according to the web site the aren't yet currently available, and my dealer couldn't find a car with them. I wish saturn would release a car with all the options and variants (quad coupe?) ready at the release date.

dindak

The only thing "quirky" about the ION is the center IP. Nothing else is really out of the ordinary for cars today.

echristi : Congrats on the ION3. I think the wheels are just fine also.

uga91

I guess you have a point about the IP. One good thing they added to the Ion is the battery rundown protection in case you leave a door ajar. Again, just like most other GM cars.

uga91

Congrats on your new 3! Black was my favorite but due to reasons discussed earlier, I went with the silver-blue, my 2nd favorite. I have had no problems with the brightness of my headlights; but, in Atlanta the roads are pretty well lit up. I have not tried them on many dark streets. Hope it all works out for you!

echristi

Black was actually my second choice due to the way it shows up the dirt. I stopped in the lot and looked at both the black and the regular blue... I really liked the blue because it looked cleaner with the same amount of dirt. To get one the way I wanted, I had a choice of black or white, and I think the black looks much more classy. I mostly want the lights to be brighter because I deliver with this vehicle at night, and I need to see the numbers on the front of people's houses better... I think that is the only thing I liked about my old LS2 better :-) The lights seemed brighter when using the high beams.

debdoozy

Congrats on your new ION 3. I've had mine for 2 months now and love it. I really like the black also, but decided to get the cranberry. I have noticed on some dark streets that the lights are really not as bright as I want them. My husband wants to take the ones that we have in there now and put the halogen lights in there, but I'm hoping that he forgets to do it since I don't really like the halogen lights too much.

I agree with you on the options. When I bought mine, they didn't have the sun roof available and I really wish that I had one, so we're going to look into having one installed in the near future. Again, congrats and enjoy!

uga91

The Ion comes with halogen headlights. You might be thinking of the "blue" headlights. I think those are illegal in some areas--you might want to check them out where you are if that is what you meant. They are similar to the high-intensity-discharge Xenon lamps found on cars brands like BMW and Acura. However, the blue bulbs don't work like Xenons--they are just annoying, IMO.

debdoozy

Oops...those are the lights I was actually talking about. I see quite a few cars with those lights here in Atlanta, so they must be legal, but I'm not 100% sure. I also really hate those lights...they are very annoying.

echristi

I have spent the afternoon reading the discussion on edmunds about after market bulbs. They do make replacement bulbs that are not blue and are supposed to be brighter. Sylvania has the silverstars, and phillips has VisionPlus. There are also some halogen/Xenon/krypton bulbs that are street legal in all states. I haven't decided on my replacement bulbs yet, but I wouldn't install illegal bulbs, to me its not worth it. I will post when I do get to changing the bulbs, and how much of a difference there is.

P.S. I really hate the blue lights too.

uga91

debdoozy: Here in Atlanta we are covered up in cars like BMWs that have real Xenon bulbs, so many of what you see may be the real Xenons. The blue bulbs are to try to fool people into thinking you have Xenons.

echristi: be careful with those halogen/Xenon/krypton bulbs you were talking about. Xenon bulbs require more power than standard halogens and probably won't work in our Ions. Philips VisionPlus? I may check them out.

vocus

I had blue headlight bulbs in my 99 Protege when I had it. They were brighter when it was dry outside, but you couldn't see squat in the rain with them. I don't know why they were like that, but it was pretty bad.

Also, when changing headlight bulbs, remember to wear white gloves. The natural oils in your skin will shorten the light bulb's life drastically.

aveman

It seems strange that the lights are not bright enough. Before you change bulbs, make sure that the headlights are aimed properly.Have dealer check the lights for proper alignment.

dindak

http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/ION/2003/ionmomentum.shtml

saturnfreak01

I saw that myself too... with the Quad coupe coming soon I think they could hit 15,000 units sold per month. The coupe is said to make up at least 25% of ION sales...

saturnfreak01

In my area , an ION 1 can be purchased for under $ 9000.00 with air conditioning. This price includes the $ 2000.00 Saturn rebate, $ 1000.00 GM loyalty, and another $ 1000.00 market adjustment.

   This price is incrediable, and while I bought an L300 the ION seems like a very good value. 140 Horsepower, smooth quiet ride, and a few thousand less than a Corrolla or Civic. Throw in a brand new platform and a trust worthy dealer network and this may be why ION sales are picking up fast.

regfootball

what is the '1000 dollar market adjustment'? Is that a local thing or what? Another 1000 would go a long way towards making me think an Ion is beatiful.

saturnfreak01

The market adjustment depends on the retailer I believe, the amount can vary depending on retailer/ location/ and it may have a different term than market adjustment.. Don't forget to add in GM card earnings/ any college grad rebates/ or GMS discounting.

regfootball

the gm loyalty thing is kinda sketchy too. my dad bought a new s10 crew cab in 2002 and now his dealer is already offering him to trade his one year old truck for a brand new same truck. At first they wanted 5 grand to boot, but now are quickly down to 2500 to boot. My dad, being thrifty, says they gotta do better.....anyways he said the dealers will do virtually anything to make it possible for you to use the loyalty dollars. My dad actually sold cars for awhile so i assume he must know how hard they try to get you to buy something.

So, if I was lucky enough to find an Ion 1 with ABS and air for

13355

subtract 2000 rebate

11355

'loyalty' 1000 bucks

10355

1000 dollar 'market adjustment'

9355

gm card dollars (currently at 1200)

8155.

Not bad.

I guess I could learn to get used to a center IP for that price. Or, I could invest a few bucks in a mirror and set it at the right angle on the dash, just in front of the steering wheel so I could have the image of the gauges right where they were intended to be since creation.

Alas, though cruising the lots today I found what I really wanted, the protege 5 in yellow with leather, sunroof and 5 speed. Proteges are the way to go, but even I will admit, they are just too freaking spendy. And they should have more hp too. Yet, they are top of the pile.

But for 8200 bucks, I could replace the front seats, put in the radio i want, put on some 17" wheels and tires............

vuefor2

Regfootball ::: Like the Protege, but the 5 is just nothing great to look at, I see why people like them though (versatility and economy). I think the Matrix/Vibe look better,

saturnfreak ::: I've never heard of a "market adjustment" either? News to me. No negotiations on price is what I have always been told.

vocus

There are alot of rebates and incentives on the Proteges as well all the time. Just don't get one and plan to trade it in a year, you will be real negative on it. Been there, done that...

Agree with you that they need more power though, but so do the Vibe/Matrix...

dindak

There are incentives everywhere now. The only place I don't really see them is at Honda. Mazda is advertising 0% on all 03's now up here. Saturn's incentives aren't much though, 1.9% on L, 2.9% on ION and 3.9% on VUE.

uga91

I saw the ad last night that says 0% is available on the L, Vue and Ion. I got 0% last Monday, so I know you can do better than 2.9%

dindak

Canadian economy is not as bad at the US at this point so incentives all around up here are just not as good in general. They have gotten a little better since Christmas but still nothing like down there.

vocus

Here, Honda and Toyota are both doing special financing, and Toyota is doing some incentives. The only one I haven't seen advertising their cars to death is VW, and they are not doing as well as in previous years, from what I have heard. They have special financing too though.

dindak

Toyota has preferred financing on some models here. Honda has 5.9% on one or two cars which isn't really any better than you can get as a loan from the bank. GM, Ford and Chrysler has 0% for 48 months on most cars/trucks. Koreans and some of the smaller Japanese care are the same. VW doesn't have much in the way of incentives up here.

uga91

Didn't take into account the "Canadian" aspect when you were talking about rates. A local Hyundai dealer says they can do 0% for 72 months! Talk about low payments...