Saturn ION

dindak

Civic has a great name and reputation for quality, but when I drove one I was real disappointed. Lets face it, all cars have faults but given the price of the Civic vs the great deals and quality the competition now offers, I don't think the Civic is the great buy it once was.

I know you are happy with yours and it's certainly not a bad choice, just not the best in my opinion.

dunworth

The car is for my friend. My cars are 2002 Corolla and 2003 Civic which I hope to have for a few years. My friend is on a very tight budget so cheap 60 month financing and other inducements are going to make or break the deal.

The ION2 is a contender, as is the Elantra. He may still splurge on the Corolla since it is much better built, gets better gas milage and should have slightly higher resale. He would be happy with any of these cars. I have owned all three brands of these compact cars and can attest to the basic value that each one offers.

dunworth

Agreed. Despite a similar MSRP, the Civic is probably the most expensive economy car out there currently due to a lack of deals. It would also not be my first choice with an automatic tranny.

It is why I have not recommended it to my friend. The value equation of the Elantra or an ION for someone on a budget is a lot better - $80 per month is a big difference!

dindak

$80 = a nice bag od groceries to people on a budget.

dunworth

You said it, especially for teetolling vegetarians. It works out to $360 for the Elantra VE, $390 for the ION2 and $440 for the Corolla CE (auto, air, cd,in CDN$ per month, MSRP basis and 60 month finance). This is before rebates and haggling but inclusive of financing deals.

BTW it looks like GM will be putting an Ecotec in the Malibu. The Toronto Star was raving about the car.

vuefor2

Did you friend buy a car yet?

Jeeze, with those monthly payments, I guess he isn't putting anything down huh?

dunworth

No luck on the car yet. Yep he's a new grad and just started a job. The 1988 Corolla is limping along and he just got it serviced so it should be good for another month or so. So zero down is the order of the day. I think ideally he wants a Corolla but there are few deals. Actually the cars are all the same price out the door - the difference is financing rate.

dindak

Toyota has nothing for deals, a lady in the office just bought a Corolla Sport and paid through the nose for it in my opinion. She replaced her old Corolla and lives and dies by the Toyota name.

Saturn and Mazda seem to have the best deals right now among the good compact cars.

dunworth

That is what we are finding as well. Saturn is kind of the best deal since the Mazda only offers the 0% for 48 months.

Toyotas are selling really well. Toyota cars are outselling Ford and Chevy.

I think this quote from Jim Press CEO from Toyota says it all:

"you either offer product that people want at a price they want, or you offer incentives to move product that they don't necessarily want."

alpha01

You are indeed correct. There are certain Toyotas that are hot right now- Sienna, Corolla, etc. Corolla August sales are up over 35% compared to last year, I believe I read.

~alpha

dindak

I think Toyota has a better reputation for quality than is reality. I tested a Corolla and while it looked good, the interior was nice and well put together, I hated the lay out and I thought the engine was a bit noisy. Civic and ION have better engines IMO.

I like the Protege a lot, but I have not driven one so I'm not sure how they drive. I almost got one as a rental las year, but we upgraded to an Taurus at the last minute for $10.

regfootball

The Toyota has a nicer interior by far so I can see why some would pay more for it.

lawman1967

Well, after much thinking (and the very low trade-in value) I've decided to keep my Galant and replace the braking system. The car went in yesterday and came out this afternoon with new drilled and slotted rotors, carbon fiber brake pads, braided steel lines and had the calipers rebuilt.

I sincerely hope that the problems wiht my old brakes have simply been "parted-out".

vocus

I drove a Corolla S model and found it to be pretty nice, but it was a little slow in accelerating. It sat up high, but not 'Focus' high, and it handled pretty well too. The only thing that I didn't like was the price. The sales person acted like she was doing me a favor by selling the car at $500 over invoice. She also said a 2004 model would cost me full MSRP. I left and actually never went back.

dindak

I like the PT a lot more than the Corolla

regfootball

PT is good too.

pat

Hey folks, we are getting way afield of the subject. Let's get back on topic now.

Thanks.

dunworth

Dindak: Our Corolla has the best quality interior of any econobox I have ever seen and is very quiet to drive. But ours is the older '02 model. Its only major drawback is its small interior. The larger 2003's driving postion is not as good for some people (fine for us) and the car itself has been critised as less agile and slightly nosier than the old one. The '03 Corolla's strengths over the old model are size and modern styling. Quality is excellent/industry-leading. Compared to my Corolla, my 03 Civic's engine is not as quiet or as powerful, but I prefer the driving postion, interior room, ride and driving dynamics of the Civic.

IMHO the ION's engine is both quiet and powerful and the car itself is definitely one of the quietest compacts on the road. In fact Saturn made the old SL pretty refined overall by the end of its life although the engine remained somewhat coarse with a tractor like quality.

dindak

Quality in the Corolla dash is great, just didn't like the driving position or the dash layout. I also found the engine a touch noisy. Even my wife commented on that fact. Otherwise I like the Corolla a lot more than Civic. I can see why Toyota sells lots of them though I still think it's not the best value if you are looking for bang for the buck.

pat

Link: Toyota Corolla

dindak

Thanx Pat.

Back to the ION!

bobs000

I recently bought an ion1 automatic & air for
my parents. It's been running reliably since.
I took it for a spin the other day and I must
say I am very pleased with the smooth ride
especially so at high speeds. It's actually
quieter than my suv.
Bob

lawman1967

as all things being equal (they seldome are), SUVs are noisier than cars.

dunworth

Congrats on the new car. I am in the midst of car shopping with a close friend. We are considering the Elantra,ION and Corolla. They are at different price points and so I would be interested to know which cars you cross shopped.

Money (payments) are a serious consideration in addition to overall value. IMHO the ION is the best value, the Elantra is the best price and the Corolla is the best built.

uga91

The ole 2003 ION 2 Sedan came back home today. Looks like new again--of course, it practically is new! No immediate rattles or vibrations or anything, so that is very good. I wonder how much the other guy's insurance will go up? Our repair bill alone was about $4800. The rental car for 3 weeks was over $600 and they paid $300 for medical bills. In a week or two, we will receive another check for decreased value--how much that will be is anyone's guess. We'll see how it goes!

vuefor2

Yikes!

Yes, the value of your car gets killed when it has been in an accedent. I would imagine on an Ion, it would be at least a grand in compensation.

Wonder if your insurance will go up at all? I had a friend who had an accedent and even though it wasn't her fault, her insurance went up 25%+. Maybe it had nothing to do with the accedent, but it was a big hike.

lngtonge18

So what in all did they have to replace to get up to such a high repair bill??

lawman1967

I took a 25% increase this year as well, and that was without any accidents. I did get a nice letter from my insurance company (Mercury) explaining the change to California law that allows the rate increase, however.

Andrew

dindak

We got hit with a 5-6% increase this year, not bad. I have heard some horror stories lately.

uga91

I would hope my insurance does not change--everything went through the other guy's insurance. My insurance never got involved.

uga91

They replaced the left roof rail, the left rear quarter panel, some trim panels, the trunk lid, the left tail light, the rear bumper cover, the bumper impact bar and shock absorber. Of course, there were all the trim pieces and parts that go on these panels and parts. The parts were only about $1800 of the total. Labor was almost 2 grand. Plus there was the paint, tax and other charges. Added up to $4587.39 pretty easily!

They did a great job on the repair. The right rear door opens and closes solidly and there are no rattles or vibrations anywhere to be found. I'm very pleased.

uga91

Sounds like you can thank Cruz Bustamante and his legislative buddies for your healthy premium increase! Yet another good reason to get the heck out of California, IMO!

lawman1967

at least until I finish law school and move back overseas. Despite the pitfalls, there just isn't anywhere else in the US where I can enjoy the (lack of) weather and still be in the large, multicultural megalopolis I require.

I just can't do the rural lifestyle.

uga91

Have you looked at Atlanta? It has everything you require--and it does it without paying $2 a gallon for gasoline!

lawman1967

Atlanta has weather, Los Angeles does not.

Actually I spent 5 months in Georgia and travelled frequently to Atlanta during that time, and while it is nice, it is still the South, with all the Bible-belt implications that goes with it.

Los Angeles, on the other hand, allows me to drive for ten minutes and then have an authentic dinner in any country in the world. That is priceless.

No thanks.

dindak

Downtown Atlanta itself isn't great but some of the outskirts were nice. It's been a while but I agree, I'm not crazy about the Bible belt mentality some people have there. Nice place to visit though.

Back to the ION.

dunworth

"Los Angeles, on the other hand, allows me to drive for ten minutes and then have an authentic dinner in any country in the world. That is priceless."

Actually Toronto is like that too - very multicultural. I love it here (but we have weather).

BTW since California sets automotive trends pretty much for the rest of the US/Canada, how is the mighty ION catching on out there?.

Are the 2004 ION's hitting the showrooms soon? I want to see the improvements. My friend is trying to delay the purchase of a new car until the new year if possible. His current car is worth 2 payments at best so a bigger downpayment is the goal. There is a 90% chance he will be buying an ION unless there is a massive discount/clearout sale of Toyota Corollas and we all know that ain't gonna happen any time soon.
The Elantra was a real contender but he saw some pics of the 2004 refresh which is not too pretty - the outgoing 2003 model is better looking.

uga91

But I have lived in other Southern cities. You can trust me when I say that Atlanta is not the typical American South. The rest of Georgia is, but Atlanta is not. I'm sure most people think Atlanta is like it shows in "Gone With the Wind" or something. Remember, that was a fictional story based in a period of time about 140 years ago. Saying Atlanta is Bible belt South is like saying Florida is the South. Maybe on a map, but not in reality. If you could not find any international cuisine you wanted in the 5 months you were around here, then you should have ventured further away from the Holiday Inn you were staying in. Next time you come to Atlanta, leave Stone Mountain alone and see the city. You might like it.

Sorry for the vent. I just get a little upset when folks think the southeastern United States is really like what you see in "Deliverance" or something. The perceptions are from fictional situations--we don't really marry our siblings here.

lawman1967

Actually, I found plenty of international food in Atlanta, it just wasn't as authentic as what you would find in New York, San Francisco or Los Angeles.

As for the bible belt, well I still had people look at me funny when I was out doing things in jeans and a tee shirt on Sunday instead of wearing nice clothes on my way to church.

lawman1967

Actually I haven't seen that many here, but they are around. Believe it or not, I've seen far more of the restyled L-series than Ions, even though both came out for 2003.

vocus

Mine actually just went down, but only because I turned 25. Also, my VW was totalled but it was a comprehensive loss, not my fault. By MD law, companies can't raise your premium for a loss of that nature. But new companies surely can tack on a premium for it though. I guess I won't be changing companies anytime soon...

My insurance had just went down on the VW in June, but it was damaged in May so it didn't really matter. When I got the PT, it went up like $10 a month because it was a brand new car, and I also increased my coverages since I had basic before.

Uga, a 'compensation' is pretty normal when a brand new car is in an accident. They figure it will lower the value if you would want to trade it, and they are right. A friend smashed his 2001 Civic up, and got a $5000 check for it. Depends on how much damage was to the car for the payout though. I would say at least a thou though. Good luck!

dindak

uga91 : Didn't spend much time in Atlanta but the surrounding areas are pretty Bible beltish. Not a bad thing, just not for me. That said, I'm not crazy about LA either. Much prefer the south west or the north east US.

lawnman : I have seen quite a few re-styled Ls around also. I'm sure the big incentives have something to do with it, but the cars look much better also.

dunworth

Pretty well every ION I am see in around where I live regardless of body colour has grey roofrails. My choice would be for ones than match the body but obviously I am in the minority.
I can not say I have ever seen one with the leopard print yet. What are you all seeing?

uga91

I should get the check for "decreased value" in a week or so. I do know that in Georgia, it based on a formula obtained through the office of the state's insurance commissioner. I'm not expecting much--hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised!

lawman1967

isn't a problem for some, is a big problem for others, but like politics, religion is probably best discussed elsewhere.

Aren't the gray roof rails what come with the car? I would imagine whatever comes stock is what will be seen most. Honestly, while I like the Ion, I consider the roof rails a silly waste of money.

uga91

All the standard roof rails on IONs-2003 models anyway--were either gray or silver, no matter what color the car itself. The "fancy" prints were all options you buy from your dealer's parts counter and then take home and install them yourself. Now, for 2004, Saturn changed the rails. If I'm not mistaken, they are all one color this year.

uga91

Like I said before, you can trust me when I say that Atlanta is not the Bible Belt South. Sure folks here go to church--but they go in every other large city in the US as well. NYC has huge churches, cathedrals and synagogues--bigger than anything you would find in Atlanta--but would you call NYC Bible thumping territory? Of course not. Now, go to south Georgia or Alabama or Tennessee or South Carolina or just about anywhere else and you have some serious Bible Belt action going on. This place is not one of those places. I do not dress up to go to church--and most in my parish do not either. I'm sure some from other parts of the country said "I'm going to the South" and the first time they saw someone walk into a church, they said "Yep, there it is, we're deep in the Bible Belt now!" The reality is not like that at all. I thought after the 1996 Olympics that the perception of Atlanta would have caught up to the reality, but I guess I was wrong.

Kirstie_H

The horse is well and truly dead. Please steer back on the topic of this discussion.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

dunworth

GM will be building its 4 new minivan replacements (dubbed crossover sport vans)in your backyard in Doraville. The plant currently produces the Venture and Montana minivans.

The new Saturn version of the vans will be called Relay. I believe these will be heavily influenced by the hand of Bob Lutz. I look forward to seeing them.

uga91

Yep, that's right. Doraville is about 10 miles south of me in DeKalb County. You want to talk about not being the south? If you were blind folded and dropped in the middle of the Doraville/Chamblee area, you could guess all day long and not guess you were in Atlanta! Will the Saturn version be built there as well? I was not aware of that.