Saturn ION

regfootball

yeah, they could change the shifter too. Also, the manual shifter is pretty good in shape but they could maybe throw a leather wrap on it or something to make it seem a little nicer.

I think getting rid of that nubby texture on the dash panels really helps the interior a whole lot....its looks a lot less cartoonish and will present itself a lot better against the competition, i.e. Corolla etc.

davethewave1

I kind of like the nubby texture, but I agree that it would make the car look nicer...

uga91

5 days of inactivity. It's either feast or famine with this thread. Looks like famine has set in.

dindak

A lady in the law office in our building just bought a black ION with alloys. Looks nice. Wonder if the 04s have arrived, I'd like to see the new interior.

uga91

I've seen interior pictures of an 04 that were taken in a dealer's parking lot (or so it appeared)--so they are at least being produced now.

dunworth

I spend last week travelling in Michigan for my job. They gave me a Daewoo Nubira rental, 2 years old, 20,000 hard miles of rental service. Still, it served me well although I can not say I would ever buy one.

The point is though I saw tons of new Saturns. IONS-a-plenty and lots of '03 L series - all loaded ones. I really like this car. OK its official the L series is currently the greatest mid size bargain in NA. I also saw many import brands as well but the numerous Saturn products were noticeable. Meanwhile back in the Toronto area there are now lots of IONs on the road including 3 on my street!

uga91

I believe, in the US anyway, the new Daewoo Nubira will be sold as a Suzuki next year. Where did you see all hese Saturns? On Saturn lots or on the roads?

dindak

I agree, the current L is up in quality and looks, way down on price. Total bargoon.

The car is just not on the radar screens of most people and they do very little advertising. I see more IONs and revised Ls, thats for sure.

vuefor2

I see Ions almost everyday on the road now. I think I actually look out for them being an owner and all. No 2004s at our dealer as of last week but there were about 20 of the 03s available.

dunworth

We will get the Daewoos as the Chevy Aveo, Epica and Optra while the Suzuki versions will be called Swift, Forenza and Verona (I might have the order mixed up). I am sure they will be OK cars but the new Chevy Cobalt will probably be a category killer.

I was in northern Michigan near the Soo. I did not see a Saturn dealership although there must be a very successful one in the area, judging by the number of Saturns on the road.

I do not understand why more people buy Malibus than Saturn Ls. While they are both good cars, the L drive better and the service is a lot better at Saturn than most regular GM dealerships.

uga91

Glad to hear about all the Ions on the road up there in Michigan. I am seeing more and more here in metro Atlanta as well. Here in the US, only the old Lanos will be sold as a Chevy--the old Nubira and Leganza will be Suzukis only, I believe.

regfootball

saw the new 04 interior. the overall impression is not much different. But the loss of nubby dash to a more typical dash is a good improvement.

uga91

The look is pretty much the same. It was the "quality of the materials" that was suppossed to be improved. They also changed the radios and a few other interior gizmos.

regfootball

not a noticeable difference in interior quality. only noticeable if you look really hard. The nicest upgrade is the silvery accents on the center stack similar to the lseries.

kneisl1

Im going to take an ION 2 for a 24 hour test drive tomorrow. Im wondering if other ION owners can say if there are any outstanding problems areas with this car? I havnt seen any going over the back issues of this forum. Ill report back on my experience with the test drive.

uga91

Make sure you drive it at night. I have an Ion 2 and one of my biggest problems is the fact that the interior controls are not lit and are a little hard to find at night--until you get used to them, of course. Also notice how your right leg sits against the center console--mine rests against it and can get uncomfortable after a while, so you have to reposition your right leg into a straighter (is that a word?) line. Not really an issue, but I know it bothers some folks. Have fun and good luck!

kneisl1

I have the ION now and here is what I have to say about it. It rides and drives very nicely... the engine is especially powerfull. Its a pretty big car...bigger than I expected. I could buy it for $184 a mon th with only $1000 down (ION 1 with air only) But Im very unimpressed with the car mechanically. They put the battery in the trunk. Batteries produce hydrogen gas as a normal byproduct. Under the hood the gas can escape but in the trunk... Even if they provide for that somehow you still have long positive cables going to the starter. Not good. At some point it becomes necessary to replace the positive cable and I hate to think what that costs...plus with an old battery on a cold night no way its going to start as good as with a conventional setup. Look behind the engine where the exhaust pipe exits. Theres a brake line routed about four inches above the exhaust with a very cheap looking insulation over it. No way that should even be there. The insulation looks like it will fall off in a few years. The shock towers in the engine compartment are insulated with some sort of thick sticky material. It looks very crudely applied (you can peal it off easily) and crudely formed. The oil filter, while easily reachable, is the old disposible element type, not spin on. It has a PLASTIC cover with a nut like thing on top you loosen with a wrench. Im not at all impressed with that.
   Still the car drives pretty impressively. But what is most important to me is durability. My SL1 has been execellent in this department and easy to work on also. Im going to wait on the ION until CR comes out with some dependability data before passing final judgement. But Ive seen enough to be scared off for the time being.

dindak

Might want to look at a 04. Apparently they have done some tweaking.

uga91

I would not worry about the battery. It is in the back for a reason--weight distribution. Other manufacturers have been doing this for decades--Saturn did not dream it up.

kneisl1

I forgot to add that for the money, the ION is a pretty good deal. Espcially with the 0% interet for five years. I AM curious as to how well they hold up. I understand the L200 is rated worse than avg by CR.

vocus

I sat in an ION when I was car shopping. The problem I had with the car was that my right leg rubbed against the center stack uncomfortably, and therefore the ION was eliminated from my shopping list.

uga91

When that happens to me, I shift my right ankle about an inch and the discomfort stops.

davethewave1

kneisl1, vocus:
I have to agree about the right leg - center stack issue. A simple shift in position takes care of it. Probablly good to move some anyway.

It sure does cool down fast.

ab348

Having seen several Toyota Echo hatchbacks (Canada-only model) running around town this week I can safely say it is one of the most hideous-looking cars I have ever seen. I withdraw my previous criticism of the Ion's styling. Actually I saw an Ion3 here the other day in bright blue and I must admit it looked pretty good (although an aftermaket set of alloys would have done wonders for it - those factory wheels don't do it for me). I went to the dealer after hours and checked some out. If it wasn't for the dash design and steering wheel I might consider one. I actually didn't mind the nubby texture of the dash which I understand they are changing next year but I can't accept a center IP. I found the upholstery on the 3 to be a little ugly but quite liked the stuff they used on the 2. Most of the ones on the lot had body-color roof rails but they still had a few with contrasting colors which looked not so good. Bad idea. It'll be interesting to see in the flesh the changes for '04.

If Toyota can sell stuff like the Echo it's hard to understand why the Ion isn't doing better.

uga91

"but I can't accept a center IP"

Doesn't the Mini use a center IP? No one complains about it. Panoz uses one and so does Toyota. Seems to me that another new car uses one now. Can't remember what it is right now--I'll have to think about it.

uga91

The new re designed Nissan Quest uses a center IP as well. No one is making a fuss about it.

ab348

Some people don't mind a center IP. Some people also like raw onions. I'm not one of them.

dindak

Saw an Echo hatch on the weekend on the 400. Man, I would not want to get crushed on the highway in one of those. I think it looks marginally better than the Echo sedan, but I dislike both of them. Corolla on the other had is a pretty decent looking car in base form.

IONs are growing on me. I would like to see the new interior though. They aren't actually selling that badly now, though they did get off to a slow start.

uga91

Our Ion 2 was rear ended this morning on my wife's way to work. She was on Peachtree Industrial Blvd in metro Atlanta (for those of you familiar with metro Atl) and she slowed down due to a fire truck coming to the intersection off of Holcomb Bridge Rd in Norcross (again for those of you familiar with the PIB and Norcross). Anyway, an older guy in a Dodge Caravan (the body style before the current one) wasn't paying attention and hit her. He must have tried to swerve as his right front hit our left rear. I must say that our Ion held up very well--at least by what we can see right now. The bumper on the left side is smashed in but the taillight did nto even break. The front end of his Caravan is smashed all to "heck" though. He could not even drive it away. To look at the Caravan you would have thought our Ion's whole rear end was smashed, but it is not. We'll see what happens now. Fortunately we both have State Farm and I have heard from a couple different people that when both parties have the same insurance things go much smoother. We shall see. Oh, I called our dealer to see what body shop they recommend in the off chance I get a choice and he told me that ours is the first Ion he knows of involved in a wreck. I guess that makes us the answer to a trivia question now!

debdoozy

That really sucks about the accident....I hope your wife is okay. I know you haven't had yours long, so for something like this to happen so soon, it really sucks!

drkris

I own a 2003 Ion-3 and like it, but need to now replace a 93 SL2 with a second car. Another ION?
Thinking about a Quad coupe, but the doors seem like they might be a pain. Also considering a jetta, but am hearing some bad stories. Any help appreciated.

dindak

uga91 : Bummer. Hopefully no one was hurt.

drkris : Ever look at the L-series. Wicked deals and decent reliability finally.

vuefor2

Sorry to hear about the accedent. Always sad to see a new car get wrecked like that.

I've had a couple of close calls, but luckily I have never gotten into an accedent.

I hope your wife is alright and hopefully your car will be ok also.

dunworth

uga: So sorry about your accident. It sounds as if no-one was hurt however, which is good. I was rear ended 3 times in my old Saturns with no problems and very little damage. I was recently rear ended at in my Civic and the damage was more expensive to repair (although it did not look too bad).

drkris: How much mileage is on your 93?. I had a '92 SL which I sold with 215,000 Km/ 135,000 miles on it and it is still running around town.

The quad coupe and Jetta are totally different cars. Why not an L series or Vue? Something different but still a Saturn. VW can be a scary proposition depending on where you live. Quality rivals Kia as does customer service, despite the high price tag, and parts/repairs are really pricey. A very different ownership experience from Saturn, although the VWs are beautiful cars to look at and drive. Of course you have a good VW dealer locally, then that is the nicer car.

kneisl1

Tread lightly on the Jetta purchase. The ignition coils have been a source of problems. Find out first if they are even availible should yours go. You should be able to score a good used ECHO for less than $8k if you shop around.

uga91

My wife is a little sore but everyone is basically okay. It takes forever to get the ball rolling on claims here in metro Atlanta. We need to get a rental car going soon to ease our burden around here. Should get one tomorrow. The damage does not look too bad, but you never know what's going on under the surface! That's why we have gap insurance--though there is no way it will go that far. This is our 3rd Saturn and our first wreck. This Saturn held up very well. Like I said, to see the Caravan that hit our Ion, you would expect the whole back end of the car to be caved in. We'll see what happens now.

vocus

I used to own a Jetta. While it was an enjoyable driving experience, all good ended there. Definitely wouldn't recommend, at least not until VW gets their stuff together.

I saw a Quad Coupe in person, and the rear legroom is actually a little better than the VW's. Worth checking out.

lawman1967

I test drove an Ion 1 today and with all the incentives (GM-S pricing, $1000 owner loyalty and $2000 cash) I just might end up signing on the dotted line. Problem is my 2001 L200 hasn't been as trouble-free as I'd like, and the Ion just looks WEIRD. I like the way the car rides, though the steering is a bit strange, and absolutely love hte engine.

Of course, for a little more, I can buy a Mazda Protege, which has a more proven record.

Anyone have any trouble wiht their Ions? How killer are the L-series deals? I just need basic transit on the cheap and want 5-speed, AC and CD. Anything more is just fluff.

dindak

I have not heard of any real issues with the ION. L-series had lots of issues initially, but I understand they are much better now. ION should do the trick for you though, it's not much smaller than the L and it's built in Springhill which is known for decent quality.

uga91

The engine used in the ION has a strong track record, I believe. It is used in the Cavalier and Sunfire as well as 4 cylinder equipped L-Series and VUEs. I know the ION 1 is going cheap these days. I passed a Saturn store this morning and they had an ION parked out front with something like "$9990" written across the windshield.

That being said, you appear to have problems with the ION: "the Ion just looks WEIRD" and "though the steering is a bit strange," combined with "for a little more, I can buy a Mazda Protege, which has a more proven record." These statements lead me to believe you will be buying an ION simply for it's low price tag. If that is true, then you may do better looking elsewhere. If you buy a car you do not like then you will probably end up not liking the car over time, IMO. I could be wrong. This is the last year of the Protege, so if you buy it, you will have a car that is not being made any more--what fun is that?

It sounds like you just want cheap transportation. "I just need basic transit on the cheap and want 5-speed, AC and CD. Anything more is just fluff." If that statement is true--and I mean this with all sincerity--a new Kia Rio can be bought like this for about 7 grand. It will come with a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I like the ION. I hope you buy one. Just make sure you like it before you sign the dotted line. Good luck.

legalsec

uga91 to lawman1967 - that is very sound advice. car-buying is such a subjective experience. sorry to hear about your wife's wreck, uga. note: the ion is still in its infancy so there's bound to be tweaks needed in the future. i was looking into buying the korean-made elantra as well as the ion. ultimately, i decided to deal with saturn because the bottom line was about the same and the hyundai dealers were too aggressive, not my style. hope that helps.

dindak

You will ultimately get better service from a Saturn dealer, Hyundia is not known for great customer satisfaction either.

uga91

Of course it's better--it's one of the major points for buying a Saturn.

uga91

It takes forever to get the insurance up and running around here. We did go to Enterprise yesterday and get a rental car so my wife could get herself to work today. Enterprise is who State Farm uses so they told us they would switch our bill over to their claim number once we get it. State Farm pays for a Dodge Neon--so for another $2/day out of our pocket we upgraded to a Pontiac Grand AM GT. Much bigger car that better suits our needs. I did notice the air vents inside the Grand Am are just like the ones on our ION--imagine that.

vuefor2

GLAD your wife is ok. Accidents are no fun.

That $9999 Ion must be a real stripper. 5-speed with an AM radio? Haha.

lawman1967

Actually, I liked both cars, for different reason, and have complaints about both as well. The Protege is terrific fun to drive and has an excellent reliability record, but it is noisy on the highway, and the price for the outstanding handling is a rough ride.

The Ion is the exact opposite, with a wonderfully compliant highway ride and an "Is it even running?" amount of engine noise and vibration, but the steering lacks feel off center.

In terms of styling the Protege wins hands-down, call me old-fashioned, but the Saturn wins for service, which I know first-hand from my wife's L200.

In the end, its a very difficult decision. The poor resale of my Galant, while negated by all the rebates, makes it more difficult. The biggest problem with that car has been brakes, with four repairs of four separate braking problems. Since the problems were all different, I lost my lemon law claim, however I simply have no confidence in my car's brakes. A final option is to spend a grand or two and just gut the stock brakes and put on a high-quality aftermarket braking system, steel lines, vented rotors and rebuild the calipers. Brembo makes kits like that hopefully would solve all of my brake issues.

Needless to say, there are a lot of decisions, and the Ion and Protege are ranked about equally in my price/value equation.

uga91

I know this is an important decision as even IONs and Proteges cost a lot of money compared to things like pizzas and DVDs. BUT, I think you are losing too much sleep over this, IMO. These are not $80k cars. Drive them both and then buy the one you enjoyed driving the most. You said: "the Ion and Protege are ranked about equally in my price/value equation." So, all things being equal, buy the one you most enjoy driving. Good luck!

lawman1967

The one I enjoy driving more is the Protege, but, and its a big but, I do more than a fair amount of long-distance highway driving, and for that, the Ion is better.

regfootball

if you can wait a few months the new Mazda 3 is coming out. Larger, improvments in the noise area. It has killer looks inside and out and promises stellar handling like the Ford Focus and Mazda6 which it shares genetics with.

Otherwise, as a cruiser car that starts and runs with minimal fuss, the Ion will do.

uga91

You answered your own question. If all things are equal, then: "I do more than a fair amount of long-distance highway driving, and for that, the Ion is better." Sounds like we have a winner!