Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
2003 ION 2 QC 5spd manual
MSRP w/freight=$14,595-$1,500cash=$13,095.
-this assumes financing of some kind
MSRP w/freight=$14,595-$2,500cash=$12,095.
-this assumes no financing on an all cash deal
2004 ION 2 QC 5spd manual
MSRP w/freight=$15,550-$1,500cash=$13,550.
-this assumes financing of some kind
MSRP w/freight=$15,550-$2,500cash=$12,550.
-this assumes no financing on an all cash deal
Used 2003 ION 2 QC 5sp manual at worst case of $10,600 before the mandatory stuff.
I would be financing a portion of the purchase, so only the $1,500 incentives apply.
Savings vs. 2003 new = $13,095-$10,600=$2,495.
Savings vs. 2004 new = $13,550-$10,600=$2,950.
I've always considered Edmund's to offer the closest to reality pricing on used cars.
I have not driven and inspected the car firsthand yet, so there are a lot of "unknowns", but with only 5k miles, I think the risks are much reduced.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I really think the Ion is a good basic car but the overwhelming styling shortcomings cast a shadow over all that is good in the market's eye.
Before the ION was released, Saturn had a "Ride and Drive" where they brought in all of the competition and we got to drive them back to back to back.
The road course had a variety of terrain including some big hard bumps. The ION handled these bumps as good or better than all the competion.
Still - who knows...
As for the interior...again - who knows....
Considering this must have been about C$24,000 out the door (early models did not have incentives up here), someone is taking a serious bath on this. My guess is the trade in value was about C$14,000, since you can buy a new ION1 up here from less than than. So someone must have taken a C$6,000-C$10,000 hit on this car in less than one year.
I know rich people in Toronto that flip Benzes and Audis for a different colour or different trim level but this is not that type of vehicle.
All I can say is Ouch!
Selling any car after a year is really bad idea. We may try and sell our Alero next year as we need a van/SUV and I'm worried I won't get what we own on the thing. We shall see, if the situation is too bad we will just have to stick it out with 2 cars.
Isn't your Alero only a year old?
Maybe wait for the Saturn Relay sport van and they will give you a good trade. Why do you need a van/SUV? Would a Vue not be a good choice?
So that used ION3 on the GM lot next door is selling at an asking price of just over C$19 K. It is well equipped but no leather or sunroof. This particular dealer always over prices his vehicles by quite a bit. It is white with some really funky looking upholstery.
Mini vans are the best bang for the buck and mileage is typically very good so it will be hard to escape the value there. Insurance will also play a big role, I won't pay double the premium of a van to drive an SUV. Who knows though, the whole auto motive world can change in a year, so many new models.
Speaking of interiors, I am starting to understand the design language used in the ION a lot more now that I am seeing it in GMs other vehicles (Malibu, Equinox) and in competitors models like the Honda Element. Its not my thing, but maybe GM is on to something here.
Any expected dates for press releases of GM's "new" minivans? And which ones will be offering AWD?
~alpha
Thanks.
dunworth : Equinox should be good. Production is ready to be ramped up down the road in a few weeks. Look forward to seeing one.
Dindak- Certainly havent seen that LT Review. RAV is rated highly by Consumer Reports, and in their last small SUV comparo, Car and Driver had very favorable comments on the RAV, even with its smaller engine. From what I have read, it handles better than any other SUV out there, and it now has stability control, a very important feature in an SUV, standard, while none of its competition even offers it. It is smaller than others, but with the 161hp engine, will keep up with the CR-V, beat the crap out of a VUE 4, and not be far off the V6. Toyota's worst car in recent memory is the Echo (IMHO), not the RAV. (The Vue also doesnt offer side chest airbags)
Just saw an ION in the showroom today, decided to stop by a dealership on the way home from an appt. Materials DO look better, and IMO, the coupe exterior is MUCH more pleasing overall than the sedan. The rear of the coupe has a very strong Olds flavor to me, but thats not a bad thing, the most recent Olds models were GMs better efforts anyway.
~alpha
As for the ION, yes the materials are better but I think the steering wheel and some of the buttons and switches could be improved on. Hopefully GM will do some more upgrades over time.
There are search features on the left side of the page that will help you find discussions relevant to the non-ION thoughts you have been posting here.
And as always, I'll be happy to help anyone find an appropriate discussion - just drop me an email.
We need to get back to the topic. Now.
Thanks.
Comparisons are inevitable, and bring out the good and bad points for anyone shopping for an Ion.
As someone who bought an economy car in the last two weeks and shopped the Ion, I found posts about competing cars and how they compared in quality, features, reliability, performance and the all-mighty dollar to be very relevent indeed.
Saturn's reputation isn't for amazing reliability, rather its for amazing customer service. My 2001 L200 has had a few issues, and both the L and the S consistently got average reliability ratings or below from Consumer reports. The Ion may prove to be a reliable car, but one year is not enough to make such an assumption.
The Echo, on the other hand, has been around at least three or four years now, and has proven itself. The Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Mazda Protege, and even the Hyundai Accent have all proven themselves to be reliable cars in the only way that it can be done, with long-enough production runs for issues to become known.
I'm not slighting the Ion, but I seriously doubt it can compete with one of the most reliable cars Toyota makes for reliability. It is still GM, after all, and GM hasn't yet learned how to make a Toyota.
According to the most recent Consumer Reports annual survey, the most reliable midsize vehicle is the Buick Regal, obviously a GM product. So perhaps GM can make a Toyota. You'd expect they'd get it right, though given the vehicle is essentially unchanged in this, its EIGHTH model year, using an engine that dates to 1962 (exponentially refined and improved, since then, of course...). Too bad this isnt always the case- the Astro/Safari have been around since the mid 80s and still compile an abysmal repair record.
So if GM knows how to build a Toyota, they just dont do it often, and not before long periods of production.
Also, note that upon their introduction in the early 90s and through the mid 90s, the Saturn S-series was rated as "Much Better than Average" or "Better than Average" in reliability.
~alpha
lawnman : ION is made in Springhill which has a good record with the S. Drivetrain is solid and reports from owners so far are very good. No reason to believe the ION will be any different than the Echo even over the long haul.
The Civic, Protege and Corolla are also likely to be more reliable over the long haul than the Ion.
In a dedicated vehicle discussion, certainly comparison conversation comes up from time to time - that is to be expected and perfectly acceptable. But when the comparisons overtake the focus of a single-vehicle discussion to the exclusion of topical conversation, it is time to move them to a more appropriate venue.
That's the point where we've arrived.
Thanks - if anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to drop me an email.
The one area where I think Ion may've missed its mark is in its interior innovations. For example, why not a notchback design that would increase its utility and market itself to folks who can't afford an SUV but still haul stuff on occasion?
What does the car offer above and beyond the Civic (flat floor in rear), Echo (high driving position and lots of cubbys throughout the cabin), or other of its competitors?
Maybe I'm overlooking some things...
Reliability in the major stuff is absolutely essential from any car, but it is also important in the minor stuff, and that is where the Ion can't match a proven car like the Echo, Corolla, Civic, or perhaps even the S, until its had a few more years under its belt. Even then, GM historically does very poorly on the small stuff.
If the S did it, why can't the ION, especially considering GM is a much better car maker than it was 10 years ago.
The Accent was actually the winner in my price/value equation, but for the very aggressive Mazda rebates which put the Protege at $200 less than a comparably equipped Accent, and over $2000 less than a similarly equipped Ion 1 (AC, CD).
Still, while the Ion was very competitve in terms of performance and comfort, the interior materials (2004 model) were obviously cheaper than in the other cars, even the Hyundai, and while I'm certain the engine is reliable, the little bits appeared typical GM, which is not a complement.
GM has improved in the last decade, but they are nowhere near the Japanese yes.
When I bought both of my SLs, I cross shopped the Tercel, Echo's predecessor. The Saturns were roomier and nicer to driver. The Tercel was a typical Toyota and beautifully built but I needed more space. Oddly, the Saturn was not only larger but more fuel efficient. If today I was looking for dirt cheap wheels, the ION1 would be at the top of my list as best bang for the buck.
FWIW both of my brothers and my cousin owned Tercels as their first cars. They were reliable but burned oil big time as they aged, especially after 100,000 miles/160,000 km. I know the old S series was known to do the same but neither of my cars did. Mind you I think my brothers did not maintain the car at the dealer and I question the quality of some of the aftermarket work that was done on their cars.
I have no doubt Saturn ION reliability will be as good as Echo. but the Echo will not have as many squeaks and rattles as it ages and will likely be worth more down the road.
Yes, they've made improvements, but they still have a long way to go. Yes, L-series aren't in demand, but neither are ANY Saturns. The Ion hasn't exactly been a runaway success, and while actually a decent car, fit and finish are still nowhere near Toyota levels.
~alpha
Quote stats if you will, but in every rating that counts, GM quality is, with a few exceptions, lower than Toyota or Honda.
I gave you a link to the Comparisons board. Please start a discussion there if you want to continue to compare any specific sedans to the ION.
Please email me with any questions or comments.
Thank you.
The perceived quality has been somewhat lower due to some cheap material choices in the interior. This is especially true of the switch gear, the shifter, steering wheel and most other tactile surfaces. The exterior paint is comparable to most Japanese cars and wide panel gaps are required for the plastic body.
It is the toys that tend to be problematic as the cars age. Since both of my SLs were basic, I never had any real long term quality issues, except for a noisy power steering system on the second one. Interior squeaks are rattles are more in the Saturns but most can be alleviated by the dealer, although it might take some patience.
Saturns are not as high quality overall as most of their Japanese competitors but comparable to Hyundai Elantra and better than Cavalier/Sunfire, Focus and Neon. The average difference in initial quality between best and worst in this class is less than 1 defect per car - so not really an issue. There are still huge differences in perceived quality - Cavalier versus Corolla.