Subaru Baja

rsholland

I see as many Subaru Baja TV commercials and print ads as I do for just about any other car and/or pickup. Subaru does plenty of marketing of this vehicle. So lack of exposure is not an issue.

Subaru, when this vehicle was announced, projected sales of 20K a year. Currently they are on a pace to achieve about 1/3 that.

The Baja was based upon the STX concept vehicle which was shown to the public back in 2000. The production version is neutered version of that vehicle. Subaru removed the following:

• Supercharged engine (soon to be rectified with the upcoming turbo)

• dual range transmission.

• Chevy Avalanche-like "true" switchback (the Baja got only a small pass-through).

Subaru makes comparisons with the Ford Explorer Sport Trac in their ads. The Sport Trac is a 5-seater, has over 1100 pounds payload, can tow up to 5000 pounds, has a dual-range transfer case for off-roading.

Say what you will about the Sport Trac, or any of the other small truck-based crew cabs, but the fact remains: They all out sell the Baja by huge margins. Most people in the market for these types of vehicles much prefer features not offered by the Baja, and that the competition does offer.

Plain and simple: Subaru missed the bulls eye with the Baja (as it currently stands) by a wide margin. To make the computer analogy, I see the current Baja as a "beta" version, or "v1.0." I can't wait for "v2.0" to show up.

Bob

wwxman

I haven't seen a single add of any type for the Baja, except for a brief mention in general subaru advertising. So many people are still asking what is it, and saying they've never seen one before, that I have to think lack of exposure is a serious issue with whatever advertising is out there. The features you mention -- more power and larger pass through --will be of marginal relevance to most prospective purchasers. Most purchasers for this type of car are going for style first and utility second. Most folks aren't subaru freaks going gaga over the ST-X with such disappointment over the production changes that they can't stomach the Baja. This vehicle came out at a bad time generally, and was badly promoted. I think the vehicle will take off eventually, and I think you'll see as many base models sold then as turbos etc. The larger pass through I don't see for some time if ever. We'll see who ends up being right on all this.

ellenst2

With the exception of the general 0% finance add which barely shows the baja, I've only seen one baja add. Most people I talk to have never heard of it. I get alot of comments from people when I stop, most of them have never heard of it either. However, many are expressing interest.
I think it has plenty of power. Compared to my former car (altima), it has more hp. I also like the fact that it's a 4 passenger. My son loves having his own cup holders and a storage compartment for his toys. Most vehicles of this size really don't fit 5 people comfortably anyway.
I've had mine size Feb and I'm still loving it.

yerf

Anyone know if the soft bed cover will work with the bed bicycle mount?

I noticed the hard portion of the soft bed cover is installed right above where the bike rack mounts. I'm unsure if the bicycles will have enough room.

I'd call the local dealer, but they're not open when I'm awake. =-)

subearu

At least in the last 2 Automobile mags, there has been a 1 page Baja ad.

FWIW.

-Brian

rsholland

I can't speak for those who say they haven't seen any ads. I can say, in the Balt/Wash area, TV ads are everywhere. Here at least, lack of TV exposure is NOT an issue; and I'm not talking about local dealers, but national commercials generated by SOA. Maybe in your area those TV ads aren't being run. Here, they're commonplace. I also see plenty of print ads, at least in the car buff magazines.

I do think, however, that the bulk of the ads are misdirected. I think way too much emphasis has been placed on attracting the "surfer crowd," and not nearly enough emphasis has been directed at attracting "Harry & Harriet Homeowner," those who putter around the house and/or who are gardeners.

Subaru recently introduced a lower-priced Baja Sport, minus leather and a few other goodies. Guess what? Few dealers here in the Baltimore area even ordered any, because they can't unload what they already have in stock. I had a Subaru salesman from one of the largest Baltimore area Subaru dealers tell me that directly!

As to the power issue: The Subaru Impreza didn't "impress" anyone until the turbocharged WRX arrived. The turbo put the Impreza on the must-have list for many people. The whole Impreza line benefited, in terms of sales, from having the addition of the WRX. It brought folks into the showroom. They come in looking at the WRX, but may end up buying a lower-priced Outback Sport or TS. The same will happen when the Baja turbo arrives.

Finally, let me be clear about one thing: I'm a huge fan of the Baja as a "concept;" I'm also a huge critic as to the "execution" of the concept. As I said before, I can't wait to see v.2.0.

Bob

ateixeira

Don't some dealers already offer a locking cover?

I have seen TV and print ads, several times.

I think they needed to make the bed a litte longer, and maybe delete some of the excess cladding and tone it down a bit. IMO these things will help sales most. Also, make the bed deeper, to get capacity up to par.

Stretch the wheelbase 2", and make the bed 4" longer, 2" on either side of the axle. I realize that'll only be on v2.0, as Bob would say.

Initial prices were too high, so people didn't see Bajas on the road, and the ads don't register with consumers if they're not seeing them around. The launch was botched, basically. Only very dedicated Subaru fans knew much about it.

-juice

rsholland

I've often thought to myself, that for such a small company, Subaru does a lot of (expensive) TV commercials. I see Forester, WRX, Outback and Baja commercials, and I'd say more Baja commercials than the others as to air time split.

At least that's the case as far as Baltimore stations are concerned. If you live in the deep south, or some other area where the Subaru brand is not very popular, that may not be the case.

Bob

wwxman

I agree that the turbo will increase dealer traffic and hence sales, but so would anything that increases dealer traffic. Lots of people on the street seem to like the Baja, get them to a showroom and some will become buyers. I also think your right about the Baja's true natural buyers -- home depot types, not surfers. Where we disagree is that making the Baja more like the ST-X will increase buyers because of the added features. The home depot types wouldn't know about slightly longer bed here, higher wheelbase there or turbo for that matter. Most will have never owned or wanted a "real" pick-up. The Baja as made is just fine for most of the kind of folks that will eventually buy it IMO. If these eventual buyers saw the current Baja, they would buy it. The Baja has a unique style, those who like it will not avoid it because of the alleged performance limitations posted on boards like this. The current performance profile is more than adequate for the eventual target buyer.

rsholland

but how do you get them in the showroom? That's one of the reasons performance vehicles exist, to draw in showroom traffic. You get the gearheads and the gearhead-oriented press excited first, and eventually average folks will also see the light.

Keep in mind the turbo Baja will not replace the regular Baja. It's just another vehicle in the lineup to help bolster sales.

Your point about the Baja being just fine as is, or with perhaps a few tweaks, is fine. It apparently fits your needs to a "T." The same could be said for those who purchase the Impreza TS, or Legacy L. They're not hard-core car nuts, but practical everyday people. That's fine; but there's also an audience for those who like their vehicles with a bit more spice. That's where the Impreza WRX and the Baja turbo come in.

Bob

rsholland

For those who may not be familiar with the STX concept, from which the Baja was derived from:

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/St-Xcar.htm

Click on the small images to enlarge them.

Notice the "real" switchback, with the fold-down midgate, like that found on the Chevy Avalanche.

Besides the production micro-switchback, there's no dual-range tranny, no 8.5" ground clearance and no supercharger. Now do you still wonder why I'm disappointed? Somewhere on that long journey between concept and production, the Baja got castrated.

Bob

cb70

very little to win me over. I should know better than to get my hopes up on a concept but gosh darn it the STX offered so much and the Baja left me feeling like the girl left home on prom night.

wwxman

Yes indeed, I would like the missing features on the Baja compared with ST-X. BUT I still maintain that even if the car had those features, sales would be similar. Again, MOST people (probably NOT including those who even know about Baja message boards) will end up buying the Baja for style -- not for speed or cargo capacity. There will always be better choices for those keying on these features. As to style, the Baja actually has slightly better looks compared to the ST-X (nicer lines with the sport bars, for example). As to the true switchback, that would be nice, but I have to think that it would effect the Baja's carlike characteristics somewhat. Subaru said it had to do with safety, and this may be for the same reasons -- your losing alot of structural integrity with the back down. Many people don't know that even the windshield provides much of a vehicles structural integrity. Subaru obviously made a judgement that the car like ride / safety would be more important to either the surfer OR Home Depot types. Again, those in need of a true pickup are just not going to buy this vehicle. I stick with my view: poor timing and poor advertising explains the Bajas poor sales. I think this will turn around if properly handled by Subaru. If the turbo is the impetus, fine. At that point, you will see base Baja's sales pickup due to increased dealer traffic, absloutely. I think the base will outsell the turbo for all of the reasons noted above (unless there's little price difference) -- this is a style vehicle, and the target buyers will think the non-turbo has adequate power.

rsholland

I agree that good targeted advertising will help. I've been a graphic designer since 1972, so I know a thing or two about advertising. One thing advertising won't do, however, is make up for a poor product, or poorly targeted product. The only thing advertising will do is make you aware of the product. Ultimately the customer will decide whether the product lives up to the advertising claims—and more important—to the customer's own needs.

As to styling: This is a personal issue, and discussing it is often akin to beating your head against a brick wall. Having said that, visit any of the Subaru forums, Edmunds and elsewhere, and you will find that overwhelmingly, most Subie fans HATE the styling of the Baja. Subaru has violated the golden rule marketing: The easiest sale to make is to your very own existing customers. So Subaru is now stuck trying to cultivate "new" customers from scratch. This takes time—a lot of time. If Subaru had styled the Baja so as to encourage their own customers to buy (using the much more subtle cladding from the Outback would be a good start), chances are we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Bob

rsholland

While styling is often the motivator as to "buy, or not-to-buy," it's not the sole motivator by a long shot. I'm convinced that most people, who are considering a truck-type vehicle (and, yes, the Baja falls into that category, if only barely), function plays an equal if not more import role.

Witness the huge success of the Chevy Avalanche. Both the Baja and the Avalanche are cursed with controversial styling, yet Chevy sells a zillion Avalanches, and Subaru sells zilch Bajas. Why? Because it is so capable. It can do so many things that the Baja can't even hope to do.

rsholland

I've noticed that Subaru has been promoting the monotone silver Bajas in their most recent Baja advertising. The silver, because the cladding blends in with the body color, is by far the most popular color choice. So even SOA now realizes that the Baja's styling is turning people off, and is taking steps to rectify that.

Bob

ateixeira

Wow, you look at the ST-X now and think "what could have been" if they'd executed like that.

The interior is gorgeous. We got some silver spray painted trim. The leather in the ST-X looks like something out of an M3 or S4. Those rims are bigger and sportier.

The switchback is big enough to fit an entire bicycle, in the upright position! You could not fit the front tire alone, not even close, through the Baja.

Check out the cool compartments under the bed, the bigger moonroof, etc. And my list is besides the 3 critical things Bob mentioned (ground clearance, supercharger, and dual-range).

The only caveat is that putting all those things into production would probably have made the ST-X a $30 grand vehicle.

-juice

bat1161

Just to throw in my .02, as a current Subaru owner I admit to liking the concept of the Baja. I think it needs some minor tweaking such as the full switchback, which would limit the need for a longer bed; a larger payload - 800 lbs is not enough capacity. I say this as someone who has loaded my OBW while helping people move. The Baja would have been very handy in those situations. I feel that it should also hold 3 adults in the back, which would require widening the body a bit for more comfort. It also needs the locking bed cover, something I know is available aftermarket but I feel that Subaru should offer it as well.
    As for the power issue, while the Turbo will be nice, I would rather see the H6 (with a Manual transmission) offered on it.
    Hopefully version 2.0 will be out there by the time I am ready to change out of my OB.

Mark

rsholland

OK, we all agree there is room for improvement, be it marketing or product. I say it's a combination of both.

As most of us here know, an all-new larger Legacy will debut in Japan next month, and will probably arrive here next winter or spring as an '05 model. That means, in all likelihood, the '04 Baja will be the the last on this platform. My gut feeling is the all-new Legacy and Outback will be introduced to the North American market at the next Detroit Auto show in January. I'd be willing to bet an all-new Baja, based on the new Outback, will debut at either Chicago or NY in the spring, if at all...

That means the '04 Baja will need to show some signs of life, in order to continue.

What can they do to the '04 model?
Not a heck of a lot, given the short lifespan I predict; but some things can be done.

• A turbo will be added to the lineup. That can do nothing but good, especially in the PR department.

• As to styling: Offer more monochromatic colors, and/or more color combos that don't contrast so much with the cladding. Maybe a more attractive grille insert too? I don't expect anything beyond that. These are both easy and cheap fixes.

• As to increased capability: Offer the self-leveling rear suspension currently found in Outbacks and Foresters in every other market except North America. Hopefully that will allow for an increased payload of at least 900 pounds. A 1000 or 1100 pound payload would be ideal. Given the current body structure, I think that's about all we can hope for.

• As to marketing: I think SOA has realized their error, and is already taking steps to remedy that. As to advertising coverage, maybe that needs to be addressed in some parts of the country as well.

Hopefully that will be enough to keep this model alive until the next-generation model arrives.

Bob

rsholland

I could be totally wrong on this, but I think, given the fact that the Baja and Outback share the same underpinnings, and the fact the current Baja is doing so poorly in sales, SOA may want to rush the next-generation Baja into production.

Again, this is just a guess on my part.

Bob

rsholland

this is what Subaru needs to do to move Bajas off dealer lots.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0304/08/c08-131148.htm

Bob

wwxman

1190 in March compare with 724 in February. Still below target but a fairly dramatic pickup.

rsholland

best month to date, by far.

Bob

ateixeira

That's decent, but to keep it in perspective the Honda Element sold over 6000 that month. It's the other funky two-tone offering that's new this year.

I'm sure prices had a lot to do with boosted sales.

-juice

rsholland

I posted a new thread over at nasioc, since many folks over there are in the know (so to speak), regarding any news on the next-generation Baja. While, I haven't yet gotten any useful info (nor do I agree with all the comments), the responses posted here are very typical of those found on other Subie fan club web sites.

Bottom line: SOA flunked Marketing 101... In one fell swoop they alienated their core supporters—current Subie owners and fans—the easiest customers to sell to.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34- - - - - 2581

Bob

wwxman

You assume that SOA expected core subie buyers to buy the Baja. I don't. Lets face it, Subie has two kinds of fans: those looking for a WRX thrill ride and those who in years past would buy a practical wagon. I don't think SOA expected either group to be core Baja buyers. I think they are trying to court a new group of buyers -- sports oriented surfer types. On this SOA missed the mark. I think future Baja adds will not be directed to a stereotyped consumer, like a surfer. If SOA proceeds correctly, the Baja will expand the subie base. So, while existing customers are the easiest to sell, I think the Baja was not intended for this audience. I also expect the Baja to be a big seller, and likely will remain unpopular with people on subie fan boards. Two simple changes will help this. 1. More monochrome colors (its not the cladding, but the clash that offends). 2. Lockable bed cover -- no trunk is probably the biggest negative to traditional car buyers considering the Baja, and most true pickup owners will avoid the Baja altogether (I'm REAL surpised subaru missed this one).

rsholland

and I agree with the monotone comment and lack of lockable hard trunk cover.

There have been a couple of Baja turbo sightings over at nasioc today. One guy hinted that he saw an all-black TB, which, if true suggests that there will be more monotone models for '04.

As to the lockable trunk cover, what I would like to see is a removable 2-piece unit, not unlike the Chevy Avalanche cargo lid, that can be easily removed and stored on the roof rack when not needed. If it's a 2-piece unit, the 2 sections could be stacked on the roof rack. Also, a 2-piece unit would make removal and reassembly easy for one person to do. And, yes it needs to be lockable.

Bob

rsholland

You gotta wonder what SOA was thinking, when they decided to offer roof rack lights—which only work when the vehicle is parked!—and not offer a locking hard bed cover instead. Dah...

Bob

ateixeira

I dunno, how many people really surf? And how many can afford a brand-new $25k vehicle? Rich surfers? I think *BOTH* of them already bought Bajas.

They'd be wiser to go after the Home Depot crowd, light duty landscapers and handymen, flower enthusiasts, gardeners, etc. I'm sure they number far more than the elusive "rich surfer" demographic.

They should team up with Home Depot, Lowes, or someone like that. Advertise on Home & Garden TV on cable. Not ESPN.

-juice

gess

I started looking at the Baja for exactly those reasons. When I found out how small the bed was and how expensive it was (35k in Canada, same as the Sport Trac) I took it off my list.

rsholland

There's been a lot of discussion recently here about the Baja being mis-targeted; with too much emphasis on 20-somethings, and not enough emphasis on 40/60-somethings. Well this weekend turned out to be a "Harry Homeowner" weekend with a large haul from Home Depot. A perfect test for the homeowner theory, you would think...

I picked up 1,045 pounds worth of lime, Scott's Turf Builder II, and solar salt. Add my ~ 200 pounds of mass, and you have a 1245 pounds load. Since most of these bags were messy, that meant it all would have gone into the pickup bed.

For the Baja (800 pound payload) it would have mean at least two trips; probably three or four trips, because it was 24 bags. I don't think a half load (12 bags) would fit in the bed. Even if it could have been broken down into two loads, and since the Baja has such a huge rear overhang, that means over 600 pounds would be aft the rear axle—not exactly ideal for weight distribution. If it had been a Toyota Tacoma Double Cab 4x4 (1,395 pound payload), which is also targeted at the homeowner crowd, it could have been done in one load.

Was my load extreme? I don't think so. There are a lot of homeowners who have a 1 acre lot hauling this kind of material this time of year.

Bob

ateixeira

Hmm, that is a lot of lime. I only use one 50 lbs bag at a time, and when I buy it's just 4 bags or so.

12 bags should fit easily, they're not that big.

Also, lots of people with big yards just have it delivered or pay someone else to do it, in fact just about all of my neighbors do.

-juice

wwxman

is not what the baja is all about. It, and cars like it, will never compete with true pick-ups. However, I'd say that 75%+ of the vehicles at Lowes or Home Depot are SUV's. For those folks, the Baja is a viable alternative. By the way, it would be no big deal to make 2 or even 3 hauls in the Baja 2 or 3 times per year in order to have the nice Baja ride every other day. Compare that to driving a rattling pick-up every day to work just to economize on the number of trips to the home store a few times per year. The Baja's capability is what will sell the car -- the fact that it can haul awkward, dirty stuff, not how much it can carry. Those focused on the how much question will buy a true pick-up, there are plenty of choices.

patman8

I was really exicted about the Baja when it was first announced. Once I actually saw and read more I was really disappointed. I need something to replace my civic, but with a bed to haul misc light dirty stuff. I have a 1/2 ton chevy to do the hard work. I need the basic baja body w/o all the fancy seats, cladding, roof racks, etc. Anyone hear of anything like this coming. I was hoping this bad boy would be like the old VW pickups of the early 80's, but with extra people room.

Thanks,
Pat

rsholland

They just introduced a Baja Sport, sans leather and a few other goodies. The MSRP is still a bit over $20K however. Baja sales have been very slow, so I bet you can negotiate a very good deal on just about any Baja.

Bob

paisan

Bob the reason for the overhead lights being only on when parked is that it's illegal in most states to run overhead lights while your vehicle is in motion. In PA it's illegal to have overhead lights that are uncovered while on the road at all.

-mike

rsholland

My point is why did SOA think that option was more important than a hard locking cover? I think they got their priorities all screwed up.

Bob

paisan

Absolutely bob. My personal feeling on those overhead lights is that they should have done the hard cover option and the lights people can mount themselves if they really want them.

-mike

rsholland

Far more people are interested in a hard locking cover, than those overhead lights. As has been mentioned here, by not having that hard cover, SOA has lost a lot of potential Baja sales. I'm absolutely convinced of that.

Bob

rsholland

this all falls under my "beta" description of the current Baja—almost but not quite there yet...

Bob

paisan

Should definitely be optional though or at the least very removable.

-mike

rsholland

I mentioned a few posts up, that I would like to see a 2-piece unit (similar to the Avalanche's), for ease of removal and storage.

Bob

paisan

I was playing around with a Lightning over the weekend at the auto-x and it was a major PITA having the hard cover non-removable, and 1 big piece. Not to mention heavy as all get-up, but that actually helps it keep the rear somewhat planted.

-mike

rsholland

When we go to the NY show, check out the cover on the Avalanche; you'll see what I mean. Because of its size, I think it's either a 3 or 4 piece removable unit, that slides together as 1 unit when assembled. The Baja wouldn't need that many pieces because it's so much smaller.

Bob

paisan

I will definitely check it out on the avalanche.

-mike

ateixeira

A neighbor has an Avalanche and it's a little awkward and time consuming to remove all 3 covers. I think even that idea could be improved upon.

Give the Baja a two-piece that folds over and stores sercurely on the roof rack. But it has to be light and easy to handle.

I see the Baja as hauling a wheelbarrow, a desk, a dozen bags of mulch or soil, stuff like that.

I dunno, if the Baja turbo end up selling for substantially less than the Forester XT, I'd give it a serious look next go-round. Oddly, one of those appealing aspects of it, to me, is how rare it would be.

Ironically, a value-priced turbo may eliminate the rarity.

-juice

rsholland

It may be awkward and time-consuming—but it can be done by "1" person—not 2. Apply this concept to the Baja, and it won't be nearly as awkward. Why? Each piece will be smaller and lighter, and you will only need 2 pieces, not 3.

I think storing them on the already-standard roof rack is definitely the way to go.

Bob

ateixeira

But he was showing me, it's not a quick job. I'd like to see Subaru copy the idea, reverse-engineer it, and make it better.

I'm talking 15 seconds quick. Unlock, flip and fold, clip onto the roof rack. Off you go.

One thing is that the Avalanche's are sturdy enough to sit on, I'm not sure if they have to be quite as strong (i.e. heavy).

-juice

paisan

Not storing them on the roof, but storing them against the walls of the bed? Then short people won't have to stretch.

-mike

rsholland

The problem is, the Baja's bed is so small, storing the roof panels there would eat into already sparse space.

It might(?) be possible that the 2 panels could be stored under the rear seat, but I think the rear seat would have to be redesigned to accommodate them there.

Bob